[eremite06]

There's no studies done on supplements because the drug companies can't make money on them.

[MikeV]

I have hearing loss and Tinnitus sine my Tank days in the Army. I get care at the VA for it with hearing aids but no cure for the Tinnitus. Mine is a static sound and at night when I try to sleep I hear my heartbeat sound in my right ear. Annoying but I have gotten used to it.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by eremite06

There's no studies done on supplements because the drug companies can't make money on them.

BUT, Eremite, the supplement companies make BIG money. There is no conspiracy to stop people from taking supplements. It is my opinion that supplements at best are mildly helpful, but often useless and sometimes dangerous. I am a huge fan of traditional medicine for all kinds of good reasons. VERY GOOD REASONS.


In today's world, we don't have those old gals with big cauldrons anymore, we have the supplement companies. At least that is how it looks to me, and my opinion is just as good as the next guys.


Incoming..........

[B767drvr]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Sorry to disagree, but...........

The FIRST thing a patient with hyperlipidemia gets is a low fat/low chol diet. Of course, they don't follow it, but they get it anyway. There are well established guidelines for prescribing statins, the NIH even has an algorithm on their website to determine which patient is a candidate. Long story short---if you have coronary artery disease, you NEED a statin, every study in the world shows that. NOT red rice yeast, NOT some naturopathic concoction, but a statin. Period. If your LDL is over 160 with 0 or 1 risk factor, or over 130 with 2 or more risk factors , you NEED a statin (or else you'll be needing a cardiologist). Everyone else can eat healthy and take whatever snake oil they get sold on
As far as other "natural" remedies go, whatever works for you is fine. But I'll stand by my challenge for anyone to come up with a LEGITIMATE study proving their value. Even the lipoflavenoids I just mentioned have no LEGITIMATE study showing any value.

Hey Doc, usually enjoy your posts... but it seems a bit disingenuous of you to be pushing statins when they are so ineffective. When comparing the benefit of statins versus simply eating a healthy whole food plant based diet, it sure sounds like statins are the modern snake oil.


The Actual Benefit of Diet vs. Drugs | NutritionFacts.org


Eliminating 90% of Heart Disease Risk | NutritionFacts.org

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by B767drvr

Hey Doc, usually enjoy your posts... but it seems a bit disingenuous of you to be pushing statins when they are so ineffective. When comparing the benefit of statins versus simply eating a healthy whole food plant based diet, it sure sounds like statins are the modern snake oil.


The Actual Benefit of Diet vs. Drugs | NutritionFacts.org


Eliminating 90% of Heart Disease Risk | NutritionFacts.org

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that statins are ineffective. The first landmark study was in the New England Journal of medicine I believe in 2004, which showed a 38% reduction in first myocardial infarctions when LDL > 160 was lowered with a statin. There have been dozens of good studies since. Atorvastatin lowers LDL by approx. 50% across the board, and greatly reduces the chance of a second heart attack at any LDL level. Sounds effective to me. The problem lies with citing studies from "nutrition"facts".org", which is more org than facts. I hardly "push" statins, in fact I have always given patients a chance on a low chol diet with some red rice yeast and flax seed oil first, but 95+% fail to reach an acceptable LDL target. Can statins have side effects--of course, but they are greatly exaggerated. Only 1 in 400,000 will have a statin induced rhabdomyolysis, 1 in 3500 will get a statin induce myopathy. About 5-7 % get some diffuse muscle aches, which can generally be managed with adequate hydration. Now balance that with the "side effects" of no statin therapy when warranted-----heart attacks, stroke, congestive heart failure, kidney failure and peripheral vascular disease. The efficacy of statin therapy (when indicated) is so well established that both medicare and private insurance quality assurance programs essentially demand their use, or a documented reason for not using them. It is actually true malpractice not to recommend statins when indicated, so I wouldn't be getting my information from "nutritionfacts.org"

[B767drvr]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that statins are ineffective. The first landmark study was in the New England Journal of medicine I believe in 2004, which showed a 38% reduction in first myocardial infarctions when LDL > 160 was lowered with a statin. There have been dozens of good studies since. Atorvastatin lowers LDL by approx. 50% across the board, and greatly reduces the chance of a second heart attack at any LDL level. Sounds effective to me. The problem lies with citing studies from "nutrition"facts".org", which is more org than facts. I hardly "push" statins, in fact I have always given patients a chance on a low chol diet with some red rice yeast and flax seed oil first, but 95+% fail to reach an acceptable LDL target. Can statins have side effects--of course, but they are greatly exaggerated. Only 1 in 400,000 will have a statin induced rhabdomyolysis, 1 in 3500 will get a statin induce myopathy. About 5-7 % get some diffuse muscle aches, which can generally be managed with adequate hydration. Now balance that with the "side effects" of no statin therapy when warranted-----heart attacks, stroke, congestive heart failure, kidney failure and peripheral vascular disease. The efficacy of statin therapy (when indicated) is so well established that both medicare and private insurance quality assurance programs essentially demand their use, or a documented reason for not using them. It is actually true malpractice not to recommend statins when indicated, so I wouldn't be getting my information from "nutritionfacts.org"

Doc, with all due respect, I surmise your education in nutrition was very little in medical school and unless you've taken a personal interest your knowledge has remained stagnant for the last half century. You sound like my father (also a retired MD) who has been trained to reach for the pharmaceutical cabinet to "manage" symptoms.

I'll leave it at we'll agree to disagree, but you remind me of the doctors who preferred smoking Camel cigarettes because they were "healthier".

Best wishes though...


BTW... NutritionFacts.org (Dr Greger and his staff) review all 21,000 nutritional studies published in English EVERY YEAR and simply dissect the SCIENCE... you know, the randomized double-blind control studies you are so fond of... your ad-hominem attack notwithstanding.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by B767drvr

Doc, with all due respect, I surmise your education in nutrition was very little in medical school and unless you've taken a personal interest your knowledge has remained stagnant for the last half century. You sound like my father (also a retired MD) who has been trained to reach for the pharmaceutical cabinet to "manage" symptoms.

I'll leave it at we'll agree to disagree, but you remind me of the doctors who preferred smoking Camel cigarettes because they were "healthier".

Best wishes though...


BTW... NutritionFacts.org (Dr Greger and his staff) review all 21,000 nutritional studies published in English EVERY YEAR and simply dissect the SCIENCE... you know, the randomized double-blind control studies you are so fond of... your ad-hominem attack notwithstanding.

I love it!

Keep the faith, brother

[dewilson58]

What??

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

What??

I found a true believer. No further point in stating the facts, so to each his own. People can have a friendly disagreement.

[zcaveman]

My tinnitus is the sound of a furnace running. I was told to live with it. I will ask my ENT on the next visit to see if she has any other advice.

Z

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by zcaveman

My tinnitus is the sound of a furnace running. I was told to live with it. I will ask my ENT on the next visit to see if she has any other advice.

Z

It isn't fun for sure, Z. Mine disappeared about six months ago after having it for years. No rhyme or reason, no new medication or change, just poof.


I would say it was my guardian angel, but I am pretty sure she drinks.

[looneycat]

Originally Posted by B767drvr

Doc, with all due respect, I surmise your education in nutrition was very little in medical school and unless you've taken a personal interest your knowledge has remained stagnant for the last half century. You sound like my father (also a retired MD) who has been trained to reach for the pharmaceutical cabinet to "manage" symptoms.

I'll leave it at we'll agree to disagree, but you remind me of the doctors who preferred smoking Camel cigarettes because they were "healthier".

Best wishes though...


BTW... NutritionFacts.org (Dr Greger and his staff) review all 21,000 nutritional studies published in English EVERY YEAR and simply dissect the SCIENCE... you know, the randomized double-blind control studies you are so fond of... your ad-hominem attack notwithstanding.

they sound more to me like a group that publishes studies done by others without personally verifying them or showing that the results can be reproduced in anther study. Making assumptions about the breadth of another's education or studies is never valid.

[tomwed]