[bagboy]

....

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by 600th Photo Sq

I have been to this place twice The Men's Restroom is a disgrace, so I can only imagine what the kitchen is like. Good Riddance if the rumor is true.

There seems to be a theme here. Many of the older restaurants leased out by the developer need some updating. I had a conversation with the last lease holder of Orange Blossom and this was the biggest issue at rent renewal time. Developer ups the rent substantially on the next lease term but refuses to update the facility. Let me be clear - I do not know this for fact it is a conversation I had with the last lease holder. The men's rooms in the rec centers are very nice - but they are not on a lease.

[Marathon Man]

So now perhaps the reality of the situation is seen. Older places that allow themselves to decline begin to lose patrons. Profits decline, and they can no longer pay the costs of having a business in a prime location. The options are to make changes/improvements, move to a less costly location, or close.

With this in mind, it is reasonable to believe that Katie Belle's fell into the same issue, and chose to make changes.

[Jimigolf]

Originally Posted by Marathon Man

So now perhaps the reality of the situation is seen. Older places that allow themselves to decline begin to lose patrons. Profits decline, and they can no longer pay the costs of having a business in a prime location. The options are to make changes/improvements, move to a less costly location, or close.

With this in mind, it is reasonable to believe that Katie Belle's fell into the same issue, and chose to make changes.

You can't really be serious! Katie Belle changes are being engineered by the family Morse who we all know have more money than God. Their motive is simply greed that will allow then to turn the entire downstairs into profitable retail space. There is simply no comparison between these motives and the reasons that there are currently at least two empty former Restaurants in Spanish Springs. Talk to anyone who has had the displeasure of having to negotiate lease prices with them and you will no doubt find out the origin of the word unscrupulous.

[bagboy]

Originally Posted by Jimigolf

You can't really be serious! Katie Belle changes are being engineered by the family Morse who we all know have more money than God. Their motive is simply greed that will allow then to turn the entire downstairs into profitable retail space. There is simply no comparison between these motives and the reasons that there are currently at least two empty former Restaurants in Spanish Springs. Talk to anyone who has had the displeasure of having to negotiate lease prices with them and you will no doubt find out the origin of the word unscrupulous.

How then does someone explain the businesses that have been here for years? The restaurants like Codys and TooJays who have not only thrived, they have expanded to multiple locations. The success of the group that now operates 4 country club restaurants. The Subways, vision stores, and on and on... Don't they all negotate with the same developer?
If a person doesn't know from personal experience with respect to lease negotiations, then one really doesn't know the truth.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by Jimigolf

You can't really be serious! Katie Belle changes are being engineered by the family Morse who we all know have more money than God. Their motive is simply greed that will allow then to turn the entire downstairs into profitable retail space. There is simply no comparison between these motives and the reasons that there are currently at least two empty former Restaurants in Spanish Springs. Talk to anyone who has had the displeasure of having to negotiate lease prices with them and you will no doubt find out the origin of the word unscrupulous.

Now that's just plain wrong and an ignorant comment. It's easy to claim greed yet you would never call yourself greedy when you wanted a raise, changed a job to get more money or started a business to make more money. Greed is always someone else. Even if I accept your statement then I want them to be greedy. What do you think enables this place to be what it is? Why do you think that National News Organizations, AARP and other retirement organizations rate TV a top echelon retirement community? This is a family that started with zilch and made something that we all can enjoy. I'm getting really tired of all those that moved here, take advantage of someone else's vision and then try and belittle them for doing something that made your life better. Nobody is forcing tenants to negotiate a lease or move in or bring services to TV. They don't come here to be charitable, they bring their business to make MONEY. There is a cost to do business which figures into the decisions. If the leases were so onerous, the developer so unscrupulous (your word) why are there few vacancies in SS and LSL and new tenants moving into Brownwood. Maybe because the can make MONEY which is why the are in business and why they move into TV. You can afford to live here because at some point in your life you were "greedy" and did what you needed to do accumulate as much wealth as you could. Harold Schwarts and the Morses just were better at it then the rest of us were and for that you malign them. The other difference is they have allowed 110,000 ish of us to share in their success, how many shared in the success of those that get on here to condemn the family. End of rant.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by bagboy

How then does someone explain the businesses that have been here for years? The restaurants like Codys and TooJays who have not only thrived, they have expanded to multiple locations. The success of the group that now operates 4 country club restaurants. The Subways, vision stores, and on and on... Don't they all negotate with the same developer?
If a person doesn't know from personal experience with respect to lease negotiations, then one really doesn't know the truth.

It is simple....it is much easier to blame someone else for the failing business.
And usual first excuse is the rent was too high.
Next is the I could not get my lease renewed because TV wanted the property.

Anybody that signs a lease with TV knows the rental rates from day one and what they will be for the next renewal term or two....no surprises about what was known at signing.

Anybody that signs a lease with TV knows exactly how long the period of time the leas covers. And most leases will have a renewal clause....and if there was not....it would be known at the time of signing the lease.....no surprises about what was known at signing.

If I were a betting person I would bet on the renter being the prime mover on each and every pull the plug event. And the feeble rent to high or they made me do it just does not fly!!

[Bonny]

Originally Posted by JoMar

Now that's just plain wrong and an ignorant comment. It's easy to claim greed yet you would never call yourself greedy when you wanted a raise, changed a job to get more money or started a business to make more money. Greed is always someone else. Even if I accept your statement then I want them to be greedy. What do you think enables this place to be what it is? Why do you think that National News Organizations, AARP and other retirement organizations rate TV a top echelon retirement community? This is a family that started with zilch and made something that we all can enjoy. I'm getting really tired of all those that moved here, take advantage of someone else's vision and then try and belittle them for doing something that made your life better. Nobody is forcing tenants to negotiate a lease or move in or bring services to TV. They don't come here to be charitable, they bring their business to make MONEY. There is a cost to do business which figures into the decisions. If the leases were so onerous, the developer so unscrupulous (your word) why are there few vacancies in SS and LSL and new tenants moving into Brownwood. Maybe because the can make MONEY which is why the are in business and why they move into TV. You can afford to live here because at some point in your life you were "greedy" and did what you needed to do accumulate as much wealth as you could. Harold Schwarts and the Morses just were better at it then the rest of us were and for that you malign them. The other difference is they have allowed 110,000 ish of us to share in their success, how many shared in the success of those that get on here to condemn the family. End of rant.

Couldn't have said it better myself !!! I'm sick of people always attacking the developer. Almost 16 years here & I still love it. Thank you Harold and the entire Morse family !!!

[Jima64]

Originally Posted by Bonny

Couldn't have said it better myself !!! I'm sick of people always attacking the developer. Almost 16 years here & I still love it. Thank you Harold and the entire Morse family !!!

I agree completely with you. It is easy to attack someone who has devoted most of their life to make something wonderful happen. Could someone be a bit jealous of the developer?

[bagboy]

Originally Posted by billethkid

It is simple....it is much easier to blame someone else for the failing business.
And usual first excuse is the rent was too high.
Next is the I could not get my lease renewed because TV wanted the property.

Anybody that signs a lease with TV knows the rental rates from day one and what they will be for the next renewal term or two....no surprises about what was known at signing.

Anybody that signs a lease with TV knows exactly how long the period of time the leas covers. And most leases will have a renewal clause....and if there was not....it would be known at the time of signing the lease.....no surprises about what was known at signing.

If I were a betting person I would bet on the renter being the prime mover on each and every pull the plug event. And the feeble rent to high or they made me do it just does not fly!!

Yes yes and yes. Agree totally. That's pretty much where I went in so many words.

[spring_chicken]

Originally Posted by raynan

Maybe the last straw was their cook being arrested New Years Eve day.

Chefs of Napoli owner/chef assaulted a customer and for some reason, people still go there!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by spring_chicken

Chefs of Napoli owner/chef assaulted a customer and for some reason, people still go there!

Cheaper than a ticket to the fights or even pay per view

[applesoffh]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

How would you "run a restaurant off"?

Very simple - do not renew the leases, as with Athens New York and the Italian place that was on the other corner. The Developer needs corporate restaurants (TooJays, Subway, Dunkin' Donuts, Applebee's, etc.), willing to pay the tariff and willing to sign long term leases for a presence. If a prior poster's supposition is correct, that the Developer is looking to knock competition away from Katie Belle's, that's another story. All in all, it's just fewer choices for us, and that's the bottom line. I have nothing against people making money - hell, I worked for 35 years so I could make some myself. Yes, a renter signs a lease that's got a renewal clause, and the property owner may come to the table and negotiate, with absolutely no intention of renewing a lease. It happens everywhere, and may have happened here. Would you work and upgrading your restaurant if the Landlord wasn't negotiating in good faith?

[NYGUY]

Originally Posted by JoMar

Now that's just plain wrong and an ignorant comment. It's easy to claim greed yet you would never call yourself greedy when you wanted a raise, changed a job to get more money or started a business to make more money. Greed is always someone else. Even if I accept your statement then I want them to be greedy. What do you think enables this place to be what it is? Why do you think that National News Organizations, AARP and other retirement organizations rate TV a top echelon retirement community? This is a family that started with zilch and made something that we all can enjoy. I'm getting really tired of all those that moved here, take advantage of someone else's vision and then try and belittle them for doing something that made your life better. Nobody is forcing tenants to negotiate a lease or move in or bring services to TV. They don't come here to be charitable, they bring their business to make MONEY. There is a cost to do business which figures into the decisions. If the leases were so onerous, the developer so unscrupulous (your word) why are there few vacancies in SS and LSL and new tenants moving into Brownwood. Maybe because the can make MONEY which is why the are in business and why they move into TV. You can afford to live here because at some point in your life you were "greedy" and did what you needed to do accumulate as much wealth as you could. Harold Schwarts and the Morses just were better at it then the rest of us were and for that you malign them. The other difference is they have allowed 110,000 ish of us to share in their success, how many shared in the success of those that get on here to condemn the family. End of rant.

Couldn't have said it better myself..

[MoeVonB61]

FACT: Spanish Springs has had ALOT of turnover since 2006.....one of the BEST restaurants/entertainment places was "The Bistro", piano bar and Jazz lounge that was located right where the Mexican restaurant is.......The place where Luigino's is has turned over 4 times since 2006,( "Bourbon Street" was one of the best)....we all know TURNOVER in inventory is excellent, NOT in tenants......It almost 2 years since Brownwood opened....many storefronts still empty.......the "Developer" is far more successful at residential than commercial real estate; even Walt Disney World has retained long-standing (20 + years) of commercial tenants like Cirque-du-Soleil, Wolfgang Puck's and many other leased retail shops at Downtown Disney and they charge base rent plus % of sales tiered.!!