Official roundabout rules, with link

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  #31  
Old 11-27-2016, 08:30 PM
justjim justjim is offline
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Originally Posted by Barefoot View Post
I haven't experienced wrong-way driving in a roundabout, but my husband has.
The driver going the wrong way shook her fist at him.
I have seen a lot in 10 years. Cars driving down a golf cart trail to a golf cart driving West on Rt 466. If I could choose, I would rather have an automobile accident with another automobile traveling approximately 20 mph in a roundabout vs. an accident at a traffic signal with another automobile traveling approximately 45 mph.

Roundabouts are safer.
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  #32  
Old 11-28-2016, 03:50 AM
Mrs. Robinson Mrs. Robinson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
Efficient (the word I used) means handles a greater volume of traffic and is also safer. The roundabouts in TV are an appropriate size for the traffic they are asked to handle and are still far more efficient than either stop signs or traffic signals would be at the locations they are implemented.

Replacing all the roundabouts in TV (it's not gonna happen by-the-way) would certainly result in far greater delays and almost as certainly fewer accidents. This claim is backed up by numerous traffic studies over the years as roundabouts have become more widespread.

Roundabouts are only good at intersections and in areas that meet certain criteria, and the locations in TV where roundabouts have been implemented meet those criteria.

From a more anecdotal perspective, I have been in TV for almost four years now, and I've never witnessed an accident in a roundabout. I've seen a few of the silly, potentially dangerous driver actions of course, but none that couldn't be avoided by adhering to the two most important roundabout driving principles... 1) when approaching a roundabout always yield to traffic in both lanes of the roundabout, and 2) never drive alongside another vehicle when within the roundabout. Obey those two "rules" and the only mistake that can hurt you in the roundabout is one of your own doing.

I will agree with you that many residents, and especially visitors, don't know how to drive the roundabouts. But if you drive according to the two rules listed above, even those drivers' mistakes will be easily avoidable.

By the way, just for the record, during my career I spent roughly thirty years in the field of traffic and transportation. I am a Professional Engineer in the State of Florida and have a Masters Degree in Transportation Engineering from the University of Florida.
Efficiency has nothing to do with safety. The two words are not synonymous.
When you are already driving within our circles, only two vehicles (maximum, per lane) can barely drive in between each of the four exit/entrances.
That is not efficient. They are too small and with the increased population, they seem to be ever-shrinking.

No one ever said the circles would be replaced. Of course they won't be.
And yes -- replacement would result in fewer accidents, as you said.
Where does one find these "traffic studies" to substantiate what you are saying?
I'm not really sure that the implementation of circles throughout the country is "widespread." Some -- yes, but limited, perhaps.

In every single area where there is a circle, the intersection exactly mimics a four-way intersection which would have a minimum of two stop signs or a traffic light.
There is no difference and it is pretty much universal throughout the country.

"anecdotal perspective???

I've been in this area for an equal amount of time and have seen about half a dozen fender benders within a circle.

A "professional engineer?" So is my husband. I have never heard of a degree in "transportation engineering," per se. Does it have something to do with a bus?
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  #33  
Old 11-28-2016, 06:03 AM
golfing eagles golfing eagles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
By the way, just for the record, during my career I spent roughly thirty years in the field of traffic and transportation. I am a Professional Engineer in the State of Florida and have a Masters Degree in Transportation Engineering from the University of Florida.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfing eagles View Post
Doesn't matter, people will argue with you anyway
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson View Post
Efficiency has nothing to do with safety. The two words are not synonymous.
When you are already driving within our circles, only two vehicles (maximum, per lane) can barely drive in between each of the four exit/entrances.
That is not efficient. They are too small and with the increased population, they seem to be ever-shrinking.

No one ever said the circles would be replaced. Of course they won't be.
And yes -- replacement would result in fewer accidents, as you said.
Where does one find these "traffic studies" to substantiate what you are saying?
I'm not really sure that the implementation of circles throughout the country is "widespread." Some -- yes, but limited, perhaps.

In every single area where there is a circle, the intersection exactly mimics a four-way intersection which would have a minimum of two stop signs or a traffic light.
There is no difference and it is pretty much universal throughout the country.

"anecdotal perspective???

I've been in this area for an equal amount of time and have seen about half a dozen fender benders within a circle.

A "professional engineer?" So is my husband. I have never heard of a degree in "transportation engineering," per se. Does it have something to do with a bus?

Dear PB, I hate to say I told you so, but.....I TOLD YOU SO!

Dear responder, If I know PB, who sometimes fails to see humor in little rolling, laughing icons---I doubt he will find your bus comment funny. (and I do hope it was intended to be FUNNY, and not just plain RUDE). After all, isn't this America's FRIENDLIEST home town????
  #34  
Old 11-28-2016, 08:59 AM
Polar Bear Polar Bear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson View Post
Efficiency has nothing to do with safety. The two words are not synonymous...
I never said the two were synonymous. Those are your words. But no engineer or anybody else with any common sense would ever consider an intersection efficient if it resulted in lots of accidents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson View Post
...When you are already driving within our circles, only two vehicles (maximum, per lane) can barely drive in between each of the four exit/entrances. That is not efficient. They are too small and with the increased population, they seem to be ever-shrinking...
The roundabouts in TV are plenty large enough to handle the traffic load they are designed to handle, which is the traffic along Buena Vista, Morse, and cross streets. How many vehicles fits in the roundabout at any given instant has little to do with the efficiency of the roundabout.

The efficiency of an intersection is measured more by how many vehicles can pass safely through the intersection in a given unit of time and...more importantly...how much delay there is for vehicles attempting to pass through the intersection. Overall vehicle delays on Buena Vista and Morse would increase dramatically if stop signs or traffic signals were implemented at current roundabout locations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson View Post
...And yes -- replacement would result in fewer accidents, as you said...
Big "WHOOPS!!" here. My original post did say (I've since edited it) replacing roundabouts would result in fewer accidents. That is NOT what I intended to say. Replacing the roundabouts with stop signs or signalized intersections would almost certainly INCREASE the number of accidents.

Sorry our one apparent point of agreement was really just a bit of careless writing on my part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson View Post
...Where does one find these "traffic studies" to substantiate what you are saying?...

I particularly recommend the first link for a quick summary from the federal government, especially with respect to safety of roundabouts...

Intersection Safety - Safety | Federal Highway Administration
Intersection Safety - Safety | Federal Highway Administration
WSDOT - Roundabout Benefits
MythBusters Tackles Four-Way Stop V. Roundabout Traffic Throughput - nextSTL
The Case for More Traffic Roundabouts

Plenty more available, most easily found using typical searches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson View Post
...A "professional engineer?" So is my husband. I have never heard of a degree in "transportation engineering," per se...
Since you're going that route, actually it's "Professional Engineer", as I'm sure you're husband will confirm. And I didn't realized you were so interested in the gory details, so...my degree is Master of Engineering, Major in Civil Engineering, specializing in Transportation, University of Florida, 1976. Sorry I wasn't so verbose in my op.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson View Post
...Does it have something to do with a bus?
I won't dignify that comment with a reply.



I know you were hanging on every word of this post, weren't you GE!!??!!

Last edited by Polar Bear; 11-28-2016 at 09:26 AM.
  #35  
Old 11-29-2016, 12:57 AM
Mrs. Robinson Mrs. Robinson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
I never said the two were synonymous. Those are your words. But no engineer or anybody else with any common sense would ever consider an intersection efficient if it resulted in lots of accidents.

The roundabouts in TV are plenty large enough to handle the traffic load they are designed to handle, which is the traffic along Buena Vista, Morse, and cross streets. How many vehicles fits in the roundabout at any given instant has little to do with the efficiency of the roundabout.

The efficiency of an intersection is measured more by how many vehicles can pass safely through the intersection in a given unit of time and...more importantly...how much delay there is for vehicles attempting to pass through the intersection. Overall vehicle delays on Buena Vista and Morse would increase dramatically if stop signs or traffic signals were implemented at current roundabout locations.

Big "WHOOPS!!" here. My original post did say (I've since edited it) replacing roundabouts would result in fewer accidents. That is NOT what I intended to say. Replacing the roundabouts with stop signs or signalized intersections would almost certainly INCREASE the number of accidents.

Sorry our one apparent point of agreement was really just a bit of careless writing on my part.

I particularly recommend the first link for a quick summary from the federal government, especially with respect to safety of roundabouts...

Intersection Safety - Safety | Federal Highway Administration
Intersection Safety - Safety | Federal Highway Administration
WSDOT - Roundabout Benefits
MythBusters Tackles Four-Way Stop V. Roundabout Traffic Throughput - nextSTL
The Case for More Traffic Roundabouts

Plenty more available, most easily found using typical searches.

Since you're going that route, actually it's "Professional Engineer", as I'm sure you're husband will confirm. And I didn't realized you were so interested in the gory details, so...my degree is Master of Engineering, Major in Civil Engineering, specializing in Transportation, University of Florida, 1976. Sorry I wasn't so verbose in my op.

I won't dignify that comment with a reply.

I know you were hanging on every word of this post, weren't you GE!!??!!
Okay, Polar Bear. Truce! It's okay that we mostly, don't agree.

Just a couple of observations and points and then I'll quit.

Since Buena Vista and Morse are our main thoroughfares, in the spirit of reaching a destination within a reasonable amount of time with no aggravation, it would be so nice to be able to drive from one end of TV to the other without so many of the circles. Unfortunately, not possible.

I would guess that 98% of residents never dealt with circles in their previous home town. They had 2 to 4-way stop signs and traffic lights. They probably had a similar amount of accidents as here, give or take a few.

Morse, north of 466, has no circles. Egress from each Villages is via a stop sign. Morse is only one lane in each direction with no median. There are hardly any accidents.

Okay. I'm done. Peace!
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  #36  
Old 11-29-2016, 08:22 AM
Bogie Shooter Bogie Shooter is offline
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HooRay!!
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  #37  
Old 11-29-2016, 08:24 PM
The Villages Guy The Villages Guy is offline
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Well, my own wife went through the roundabout and broke the rules....as she cut from the outside lane to the inside lane right in front of me. When I caught back up with her, I mentioned how that is exactly the way NOT to do it. She said, well no one else was around, so no big deal. I hope she learns quickly, before someone else IS around her car.
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Old 11-30-2016, 11:21 AM
bbbbbb bbbbbb is offline
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Default Traffic Circles

[QUOTE=l2ridehd;1325970]Roundabouts are nothing but a traffic light replacement and work EXACTLY the same way.

If you wanted to turn right at a traffic light, you would make that lane choice before getting there and come at it from the right hand lane. You would also yield to anyone already in the traffic flow.

If you wanted to turn left at a traffic light you would make that lane choice before getting there and come at it from the left hand lane.

If you were planning to go straight through you would use either lane.

OK So:

Hi, it seems to me that your description is the best of all and it does look good. Thanks bbbbbb
  #39  
Old 11-30-2016, 12:03 PM
photo1902 photo1902 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson View Post
Okay, Polar Bear. Truce! It's okay that we mostly, don't agree.

Just a couple of observations and points and then I'll quit.

Since Buena Vista and Morse are our main thoroughfares, in the spirit of reaching a destination within a reasonable amount of time with no aggravation, it would be so nice to be able to drive from one end of TV to the other without so many of the circles. Unfortunately, not possible.

I would guess that 98% of residents never dealt with circles in their previous home town. They had 2 to 4-way stop signs and traffic lights. They probably had a similar amount of accidents as here, give or take a few.

Morse, north of 466, has no circles. Egress from each Villages is via a stop sign. Morse is only one lane in each direction with no median. There are hardly any accidents.

Okay. I'm done. Peace!

There is a traffic circle on Morse north of 466. Its just prior to 441.
  #40  
Old 11-30-2016, 04:19 PM
Bogie Shooter Bogie Shooter is offline
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[QUOTE=bbbbbb;1327619]
Quote:
Originally Posted by l2ridehd View Post
Roundabouts are nothing but a traffic light replacement and work EXACTLY the same way.

If you wanted to turn right at a traffic light, you would make that lane choice before getting there and come at it from the right hand lane. You would also yield to anyone already in the traffic flow.

If you wanted to turn left at a traffic light you would make that lane choice before getting there and come at it from the left hand lane.

If you were planning to go straight through you would use either lane.

OK So:

Hi, it seems to me that your description is the best of all and it does look good. Thanks bbbbbb
That's exactly what that big green sign located on the right side of the road, just prior to approaching a roundabout directs you to do.
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  #41  
Old 12-01-2016, 01:24 AM
circletrack circletrack is offline
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It's been mentioned several times, but man I wish folks would stop holding up traffic to let carts cross before entering the roundabouts. Happens nearly every day as I drive into Spanish Springs from Paige Place. You are NOT being courteous, and you can get someone killed.
  #42  
Old 12-01-2016, 01:31 AM
circletrack circletrack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Robinson View Post
Okay, Polar Bear. Truce! It's okay that we mostly, don't agree.

Just a couple of observations and points and then I'll quit.

Since Buena Vista and Morse are our main thoroughfares, in the spirit of reaching a destination within a reasonable amount of time with no aggravation, it would be so nice to be able to drive from one end of TV to the other without so many of the circles. Unfortunately, not possible.

I would guess that 98% of residents never dealt with circles in their previous home town. They had 2 to 4-way stop signs and traffic lights. They probably had a similar amount of accidents as here, give or take a few.

Morse, north of 466, has no circles. Egress from each Villages is via a stop sign. Morse is only one lane in each direction with no median. There are hardly any accidents.

Okay. I'm done. Peace!
You think that stopping at several traffic lights instead of constantly flowing traffic circles would provide a less aggravating drive?
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