[QUOTE=Guest]
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Originally Posted by Guest
ANOTHER tangent...
No...YOU care what it costs in DOLLARS...I'm talking about ENERGY cost...HOW MUCH ENERGY DID IT TAKE TO MAKE THE BATTERIES...your battery car costs/requires multiples MORE in ENERGY costs (energy USED) to manufacture and keep charged.
If "gas" goes up to $5 a gallon...the dollar COST of your batteries WILL go up too, the dollar COST of charging them WILL go up too.
It IS a "zero sum" equation. As oil goes up...everything goes up with it. Because there is NOTHING that can replace oil right now.
I'm not sure why you can't grasp this but I'll try again. If you buy a battery for your flashlight the cost of all of the energy to make that battery is included in the purchase price. It has to be less than the purchase price or the battery company would lose money on every battery and they soon would be out of business. Everready batteries have been around for a long time. Flashlight battery or battery for an electric car the economics are the same.
Next year I am going to buy a Chevy Bolt, an all electric car. Purchase price (without subsidies) is 38K. It will save me 10k in gasoline costs over its lifetime. If I compare it to gas cars costing 28k they come out ahead, more room and no limit on range but not by much. In today's prices the EV is almost price competitive. Why am I doing it, I want to say the the Koch brothers,Saudis, Iranians and Russians try being poor for awhile. If my economic analysis of buying an EV tomorrow is wrong please show me the error. Please don't try to baffle with scientific bull**** you don't understand.
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You're stuck on MONEY...money cost. Money cost has NOTHING to do with how much ENERGY it cost because right now "energy" is almost free. Transportation via fuels, electricity generation via fuels...oil and natural gas are ALMOST free energy. That is WHY your batteries are "cheap" because the energy used to make/charge them is cheap.
BUT...the point you don't get is...energy IS cheap because it's "fossil" fuels...energy sitting in the ground...waiting to be lit. It only costs $3 a gallon because speculators decided it was worth $3 a gallon...it's also $3 a gallon because there are 9 billion people ALL wanting some of it. Oil COULD be 30 cents a gallon.
But your batteries...they MUST be built...from scratch...EVERYTHING going into you battery NEEDS energy to be made. And THEN it needs MORE energy to charge...more than you'll EVER get out.
STOP thinking in terms of dollars...START thinking in terms of energy consumed and energy output.
A barrel of oil RELEASES 5X more energy than is required to "make" that barrel. A Lithium battery CONSUMES 32X MORE energy to manufacture and charge than is will release during use. The MORE times you use your battery the WORSE the costs become because each recharge uses more energy than the battery can release.
Your batteries are ONLY possible because there is almost unlimited CHEAP fossil fuels to create the energy required to create the battery.
You are talking "dollars", I'm talking about actual "energy" Oil is a better "value" in energy terms. Dollar values are arbitrary and capricious.
Dollar values change...energy requirements/output are fairly fixed.