[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Bucco

This thread, to me anyway, is confusing.

Are we speaking of philosophical discussions of finding the "TRUTH" ?

Or, as this post seems to imply, someone stating that they are right and you are wrong ?

BIG difference. The first has not end to the discussion and my thoughts are not on shades of sky color, nor the number of bones in an elephant.

If your child came home and told you that his or hers GPA was 3.5 and you found that the FACT, which is the real GPA, was 2.3. Is that a lie...in what way can you twist a 2.3 into a 3.5 ? Which is true.

If facts are up to the eye of the beholder, then we are moving to total and complete chaos.

An opinion, BASED ON FACTS, is a different story, but not the basic facts.

I am simply not sure if someone told you that their opinion is the truth or whether they insisted their facts were true, and supplied no credible evidence.

These are totally different scenarios.

If you were told that a neighbor said something bad about you, and somehow it was on a recording and played for you and was clearly your neighbors voice and your neighbor identified himself or herself, which is true.

To me, in the two examples I gave, there is no doubt of the FACT or TRUTH. Anything to the contrary is lying and twisting of the truth. Simple as that. Your child should be disciplined for LYING to you about his/her GPA.......Your neighbor should be chastised and confronted, etc on his or her libel.

Pretty simple......your opinion can differ on how or why, but the facts do not change.

NOT sure what the instance you keep referring to is, in context, but that is important, to me anyway. Other wise this is an exercise in circular reasoning, ie. a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with. The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true.

The underlined above...nails IT.