[blueash]

Originally Posted by Aces4

The increased number of deaths, according to CNBC, was 528,000. That’s quite a distance from 600,000.


Covid was third cause of death in the USA after heart disease and cancer with the highest recordings at the beginning of the pandemic and at the winter holiday period in December. Not included in those numbers were suicides related to the isolation, untreated medical conditions because people were too afraid to see their physicians and improper treatment of Covid cases.

Should we allow our government to take away the civil liberty of vaccination choice, NO!

The CDC listing for cause of death in 2020 is now available. This categorization uses the first disease listed on the record and does not include any comorbid conditions. Thus if you are listed as dying of diabetes but you also had Covid which worsened your diabetic control, you are NOT listed as a Covid death in this data set even if the Covid sped your demise.

For 2020 rounded numbers there were 345 thousand Covid deaths. The total increased deaths over 2019 were 504 thousand

Despite the predictions of some, and the statement you made about suicide, the actual suicide deaths decreased to its lowest number since 2015.

I have no idea what you mean about improper treatment of Covid as apparently you have some specific knowledge about doctors failing to provide proper care. I would suggest that if such a thing happened, it was Covid that killed the patient as I doubt any doctors deliberately mistreated patients unless you are referring to possible deaths from medications that were being promoted and didn't work.

No data is available on excess deaths from people not seeking medical care. It certainly may have been a factor, but you assert without data that it is the case. There is data on this factor from patient report, but nothing about any resulting morbidity. There was an increase in deaths from heart disease, stroke, and diabetes in 2020. There is not data to say whether these were people who had ignored symptoms or people who received care but Covid worsened their status leading to death.

Importantly the data is through the end of the final week of 2020. This fails to capture the enormous number of Covid deaths that occurred in the first several weeks of 2021, see graph below. We now stand at 572 thousand primary Covid deaths per Johns Hopkins tracker.

The big picture is that there was a huge increase in overall mortality in 2020. This completely refutes the Covid is a hoax, the numbers are bogus etc. argument I have heard and read often.

I actually 100% agree with you that the government should not compel anyone to get a vaccination. I do believe that the government has the power to limit the activities of those that make the choice to not be vaccinated. Your child cannot go to public school without vaccines. You cannot attend most colleges without vaccines. You have the freedom of speech, but not the freedom to not have consequences for what you say. The Nazis can march in Skokie, protected speech, but when they lose their jobs, that is a consequence that is not protected. You can decline vaccination, but if you cannot cruise or attend a Yankees game, consequences.