I've got to agree, we've gone off on the wildest of tangents from a topic that started with whether we were founded as a "Conservative Christian Nation."

BBQ/Billie/Steve/Yoda & Dkl.. State that I love "to stir the pot." Well, first problem with that is the implication that somehow, you guys "own the pot"!!!
As far as I can tell, this is a political discussion board, not a "We are conservatives, come commiserate and agree with us" discussion board.

And yes, as you all know, whoever posts the first topic DOES steer the subsequent direction of the string (unless like this one, it goes wildly off course)

Aside from the personal attack (take note Yoda), you must be projecting a former student, or some unresolved issue onto me. No biggie. It just always bewilders, and bemuses me that both "sides" love to throw the very weakness they have at the other side.

Let's just leave it at "take the Plank from your own eye before removing the splinter of another." Or People who live in glass houses...or drawing sins in the sand. On a visceral side, it's that energy you get from saying, "GOTCH-YA" without realizing or recognizing that the only one who got "got" was the speaker. Shakespeare (Hamlet) called it being hoisted by one's own petard.

Dem. Elliot Spitzer caught with prostitutes after preaching all sorts of morality.
Rush getting caught with 3,000 oxycontin tablets after preaching for stronger drug laws.
Jimmy Swaggert & Jim Bakker getting caught with whores after preaching judgment against those who practiced infidelity.
Ted Haggard condemning homosexuality while using male prostitutes and crystal meth.

So BBMan, while you seem so quick to judge "me" you seem unwilling to accept that I am not a nation to myself. I represent the positions and opinions of tens of millions of Americans who love this country as much as you claim to, except we choose to display that love in a way that seems to threaten the conservative mindset. If you knock this straw man (me) down, then the reality of your rants will suddenly have all the Truth of God the Conquering Hero returning to His chosen country.

I'm not against having the 10 Commandments up in public places, or allowing a minute of silence in public schools for, "prayer or reflection- according to one's beliefs or desires." And I don't believe that means every other faith or belief has to be equally represented. I would object to public students being forced to recite the Lord's Prayer or Ten 'Hail Marys'. I would object to government paying for some statue or monument, or of it being placed in such a manner as to "block" entry to a building, as the judge in Kansas unsuccessfully tried to do.

Billie, I believe you mistake "apathy" for millions who simply don't agree with you. You rant about the greatness of this nation, yet when it doesn't move, or doesn't stay traditional, then you rant about apathy and the ACLU.

The ACLU is a valuable organization in this nation, as is the NRA or any other advocacy group that seeks to keep our Constitutional Rights safe and untrod upon. Without the ACLU, government has no "check" to balance it against tyranny. And don't count on corporate controlled media to stand up for you.

For example, no one would have brought suit to expose what is rapidly becoming a scandal about torture that Americans were carrying out at the same time the President was swearing to the UN that "Americans don't torture."

I'm presupposing that you find that whole exercise distasteful or anti-American, when in fact, millions of Americans believe investigations of these abuses represent the BEST of America.