[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

That is where the higher standard comes in, I don't want my life to depend on what some rational person thinks. If that rational person thinks wrong then an unarmed man may be laying on the floor bleeding out.

- A gun is pointed at me - self defense
- A gun is pointed at someone else - protecting society
- A gun is being carried in a way that makes it obvious that someone will be shot (think school or shopping mall) - protecting society
- A gun is seen in the hand of someone who is threatening me - self defense?
<<<< I would put the bar no lower than here >>>>
- Someone threatening me is reaching for a visible gun - self defense??
- Someone threatening me puts his hand in his pocket - ???
- Someone is acting in threatening manner and looks like a thug - ???

I believe there should be an actual, credible threat to someone's life before using deadly force. Not just the belief that he may have been reaching for a gun but actually seeing the gun. If you're going to shoot someone then you better be right - in this case the permit carrier was not right. He may not be criminally liable or charged but his rational thought was incorrect.

Did he have to shoot that quickly? <Complete speculation> According to reports, Hudson was reaching for his pocket. In the time it took him to do that, the shooter (permit carrier) was able to decide that he needed to act, reach to wherever his concealed weapon was, extract it, arm it, aim it, and fire. He either has a very quick reaction time or Hudson was more fumbling than grabbing for a gun. In either case it seems the shooter would have had time to pull the trigger AFTER actually seeing a gun. He had the draw on Hudson, Hudson was being slow, and when he would have been able to first see the gun it would have been pointed at Hudson's foot.

You have that right.

And we do not have enough facts to know if this deceased person was known as a regular or whatever at Applebee's as well as the story of the man who shot him. Did they have any experience with one another?