Quote:
Originally Posted by ithos
Thank you for the reply. I left out Dean Ornish who runs a program to reverse heart disease that can be reimbursed by Medicare. It may still be the only one.
The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) has determined that the Ornish Program for Reversing Heart Disease meets the intensive cardiac rehabilitation (ICR) program requirements set forth by Congress in §1861(eee)(4)(A) of the Social Security Act and in our regulations at 42 C.F.R. §410.49(c) and, as such, has been included on the list of approved ICR programs available at Medicare Approved Facilities/Trials/Registries | CMS.
NCA - Intensive Cardiac Rehabilitation (ICR) Program - Dr. Ornish's Program for Reversing Heart Disease (CAG-00419N) - Decision Memo
Is he a quack?
What about Dr Esselstyn of the Cleveland Clinic, rated as number one hospital for heart disease. He has a program to reverse heart disease. Is he a quack?
Best Hospitals for Cardiology & Heart Surgery
Access Denied
The Esselstyn Heart Disease Program | Cleveland Clinic
And for Dr Kahn there are always more than one side to a story
3 Beaumont doctors claim innocence over $84.5M settlement
The whistleblowers identified numerous Beaumont doctors and administrators. Yet none of the three doctors were accused of wrongdoing in the whistleblowers' lawsuits against Beaumont, which were unsealed last week.
And he still has his license. So you haven't proved anything on a medical basis. As far as being critical of the Covid Vax, there are so many prominent health professionals on both sides of the argument, that you could write a book on. Not going to settle that on TOV. The major point is that he cites all references for his recommendations so that people can decide for themselves. In my layman's opinion he doesn't have the winning argument on everything.
As far as nutrition education in medical school, chew on this:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hs...ion-education/
“Today, most medical schools in the United States teach less than 25 hours of nutrition over four years. The fact that less than 20 percent of medical schools have a single required course in nutrition, it’s a scandal. It’s outrageous. It’s obscene,” Eisenberg told NewsHour.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...171-8/fulltext
Our analysis of these studies showed that nutrition is insufficiently incorporated into medical education, regardless of country, setting, or year of medical education. Deficits in nutrition education affect students' knowledge, skills, and confidence to implement nutrition care into patient care.
https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-po...ine-nutrition/
Why Doctors Aren’t Taught Much About Nutrition
And I could cite many more.
Can you cite a reputable publication that says nutrition is covered adequately in Med School?
And True North has been around for decades and claim some very positive results with their program for people who have not had good results with conventional medicine. And yes, I believe their water fasting program is very effective for many medical issues including addiction. If they were not successful then they would have been sued out of business or had their state license revoked.
And I would be most interested if you have any dirt on Dr Greger of https://nutritionfacts.org/ other than he once worked for "Patch" Adams.
Dr. Michael Greger | How Not To Die | Talks at Google
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rNY7xKyGCQ |
OK, I guess that says it all
I thought I was dealing with a simple case of misunderstanding human physiology. Unfortunately, what we are dealing with is the
cult of nutrition----millions of dollars being made on books, seminars, diets, "institutes", TV shows, "infomercials", radio shows and podcasts----all by either legitimate doctors that turned to the dark side or just outright scam artists. They have sold out for $$$ just like LIV golfers have sold out to Saudi sportswashing money. These people are parasites feeding off the public desire for immortality.
I hate to pick on him again, but let's use the example of Mehmet Oz. A well educated physician and surgeon, he attended Yale Univ undergraduate and got a dual MD/MBA from univ of Penn and Wharton business school. He was associate director of cardiothoracic surgery at Columbia-New York Hospital, and could benefit many patients via his talent in the OR, which is what he did---initially. Then he allowed himself to be "Oprahfied"---sold out for a TV show and more $$$$, just like "Dr." Phil. I very much doubt he even believes half the crap he spouts out on TV---too bad he lost his senate race because that might have shut him up.
These "so-called" doctors have convinced millions of gullible people that the secret to health and a long life lies in what they eat. The best analogy is probably James Fixx----you remember him, the author of "The Running Book" that started the cult of jogging in America. Now, there's nothing wrong with getting plenty of exercise, but this "cult" was likewise convinced that
THE secret was running. Of course, you'll remember this guru of jogging dropped dead of a heart attack at age 47. But it has been quite a money maker for the orthopedists.
We see above a list of these "so called" doctors, and note they "cite references". Here's a news flash----the astronomers and geologists who belong to "The Flat Earth Society" also cite references. But in a similar vein, they cite references from other members of their society. The cult of nutrition "experts" are like a closed union shop that promote garbage and the slap each other on the back as they head to the bank.
And all this is built on the fallacy that "nutrition will cure all". I particularly like the assertion that medical schools do not spend enough time teaching "nutrition". Just how much time should they waste on a very simple premise. In fact, let me save anyone the 25 hours that are claimed to be inadequate and teach it in 30 seconds:
Eat a balanced diet without large amounts of fat
Don't eat too much of it
If and ONLY IF you are one of the few patients with a SPECIFIC vitamin deficiency, replace that vitamin and only that one.
Exercise regularly.
Oh, yes----before I forget, there's "reversing coronary artery disease". Absolutely been proven----by legitimate physicians and cardiologists---it's called a low fat diet and a statin. Proven by angiographic studies. Don't need a holistic quack to do
that. The programs that are "Medicare reimbursed" combine traditional cardiac rehab and statin therapy with a target of reducing LDL to under 70. They DO NOT rely on telling people to eat broccoli 15 minutes before artichokes.
So now the challenge: Show me a legitimate double blinded placebo-controlled multi-centered study by physicians who are NOT a part of nor financially benefit from the "nutrition cult" that has been published in a legitimate medical journal that shows that following any of the garbage promoted by these gurus beyond what is in large bold type just above prevents disease or extends life. Rotsa ruck.