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Originally Posted by mntlblok
Good questions. The thread has sent me googling for additional info. 3 minutes looks to be an important cutoff level for successful outcomes. There are unsuccessful outcomes other than death. This makes me suspect that having them at places like Rec centers is a fine idea with plenty of potential for benefit.
*If* having them in less accessible areas with fewer folks in the vicinity and/or likely to be able to utilize them in time would mean a greater chance for having more folks surviving with brain damage, then that debate might be worth having. My wife knows *my* preferences for such a situation. Even has it in writing.
On another note, just read that a patient with ventricular fibrillation or "pulseless" ventricular tachycardia might still be breathing. While it's not likely to be "normal" breathing, I certainly don't feel trained enough to decide whether one's "level" of breathing, if present, is suitable for even initiating CPR. Heck, even a patient in fibrillation can have a "pulse" of sorts. Might even retain some level of "consciousness" (I just read) - however *that's* defined. Any handy "rules of thumb" on the subject out there to share?
One last rather disturbing statistic that turned up was that 7% of those suffering SCA - sudden cardiac arrest - survive without CPR or defibrillation. No clue how *that* works. But, CPR "only" (no defibbing) jumps that number up only to 9%.
Finally, the "kind of interesting" thing I learnt was that defibrillator "shock" is for *stopping* the heart and its electrical activity. Apparently this "pause" gives it a chance to "reorganize" itself electrically speaking. Way over my head, as is fine vs. coarse ventricular fibrillation.
Oh, one more that I hadn't ever understood but had kinda wondered about! A "heart attack" (enough blockage of a coronary artery) can lead to a shut-off of normal electrical activity of the heart and SCA.
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Mntlblok....the AED decides if it should give a shock based on VT/VF and say "SHOCK ADVISED". I guarantee you will seldom hear those words stated by the AED and why I keep saying CPR. You would not want to shock a person that is awake because you could stop their heart. You will learn about helping in certain scenarios and it's designed so everyone can learn it. The more trained help on scene the better.
I was on the receiving end in the ED as the RN doing CPR, pushing ACLS drugs, and running the defibrillator. We only saw positive outcomes when EMS was activated and CPR was immediately started. We're lucky to have Healthcare professionals amongst us bringing decades of know how....but it's on all of us to know what to do and how to do it because EMS and the ED are TOO far, at this point in time.
I just re-read all of the posts in this thread and I am disgusted by some posts that I can only assume are male Physicians claiming that no one is getting out of bed and that all Nurses are female, and the AED costs less than getting our nails done. Let me assure you than Nurses are not weak, they are all not female, and don't confront me about this post, if you are the male chauvinist pig, if you value your orbital bones.....think Laforte 4....I jest somewhat but please don't discount my female coworkers. Looks really bad on you