Originally Posted by djplong

Well, first, I also believe that there's something "out there" beyond our mortal lives. I say that because I've seen a glimpse of it when I had a near death experience in 1978 (drowning in a river).

Now to the second part. I'm going to go out on a limb and explain exactly how I feel and make a few admissions.

Admission #1 - though many of you know I have two children (daughters, 17 & 22 years of age), you may not know that those weren't all the pregnancies I was responsible for. There have been one, possibly up to three, miscarriages that I was involved with (either a wife or girlfriend).

Admission #2 = In addition, there was one abortion. It was at about 4-5 weeks. My wife was on birth control which failed (it happens). The worst part, and this had a major influence on our decision (yes, we both made it) was the fact that we had just had full torso and pelvic x-rays (without knowng she was just a few days pregnant). We discovered that she was now at a HUGE risk for a wide cornucopia of complications, birth defects and other assorted 'goodies'.

Skip this paragraph if you don't like text that's a bit graphic. I've had to clean up the floor after a miscarriage at something under 4 months. This was unpleasant. My (now ex) wife 'caught' what was never going to be born and it didn't exactly resemble all those 'miracle' pictures that are blown up to 100x normal size by people pushing an agenda.

Having said that, the idea of being able to walk into a clinic when you're 8 1/2 months pregnant and getting an abortion is abhorrent to me. Fortunately, despite what some people say, the Roe decision does NOT make that the law of the land. States are quite free to implement final trimester restrictions.

There are a number of horrible diseases and defects that point out some hypocrisies in our society. We'll shoot a dog or a horse or euthanize a cat to end it's suffering - but we'll comdemn a person to a 'life sentence'. Tay-Sachs, microencaphaly and a lot of other polysyllabic syndromes make this a grey area. Some people will tell you that they don't mind caring for those severly disabled. But we never really know if that's the story they tell themselves until they believe it, or if it's genuine. (Like how I convinced myself that I was happy in the last few years of my marriage but didn't know the different until after my ex left some 3 1/2 years ago).

There are many arguments which fail the logic test when stressed to the limits. And that's why it's a gray area. I'll give you an example.

Some people say that "life begins at conception". They may also say "no abortions except in the case of rape, incest or if the mother's life is in danger". These two 'clauses' become at odds with each other. Here's how:

Say you have a 5-year-old kid. Everything's fine. However, 'the secret' comes out that the kid is a product of incest. If "life begins at conception", but it's ok to abort due to incest, then it (unfortunately) logically follows that the 5-year-old doesn't have the same rights, if a product of incest, as any other kid.

That's an example of why simple, blanket statements don't work. There are always exceptions to every rule - especially here.

I don't like abortion. Never did. I used to be labelled a 'pro lifer' until I heard many people's real-life experiences - like how a civil servant said to a young pregnant woman who was going through the adoption process: "Oh, look, another girl who can't stand the idea of a baby interfering with her fun." (The woman said there are probably still scorch marks on the ceiling of the office where that happened - she kept the child and everything eventually worked out). So once I started moderating my stance, I'd get comments form others that I was a "pro-death windbag".

This issue touches a primal nerve in humans. We're coded in our DNA to propagate the species - to pass on our genes. For some, this issue affects us in a way that defies logic because it's so deep down inside us, woven into the very fabric that makes us.

It's hard to say, on one hand, that abortion should be outlawed when, the last time I checked (admittedly several years ago) there were over 5,000 kids in the Greater Boston area waiting for adoption (mostly minorities). Over 35,000 in the New York City area. Oh, sure, the waiting list is years long for "perfect little white babies" (as some old friends of mine found out when the wife had difficulty conceiving). But this just demonstrates more of the emotional agitation when it comes to talking about this subject.

Crack babies, foreign adoptions, welfare moms, public burdens, waiting lists - and none of that goes to discuss the subject costs.

Some activists talk about the 'huge profits in the abortion industry' and scream about Planned Parenthood. It doesn't matter to them that PP only got some 16% (admittedly my nubers are old but U.S. abortion rates have been on the decline the past few years) from abortion services and performs FAR more services for pre and post-natal care, primarily or people who have no other way of affording it. They scream about money, ignoring reality. My personal examples:

Back in 1990, an abortion in NH cost about $265. In 1987, the bill for our daughter with no complications was over $5000 (insurance paid) for a few office visits and one night in the hospital. Of course this doesn't include follow-up visits, vaccinations, etc. In 1992, our 2nd daughter DID have complications and the bills that I saw were WELL over 6 figures and I didn't see them all (turns out all the stuff was for precautionary measures - everything turned out fine).

Yeah, follow the money. The 'huge profits' are in the birth industry. I saw this first-hand working for Boston's Beth Israel Hospital where competition for new mothers was *fierce*. This was, to the hospital, "easy money". Everyone knew there jobs. There were rarely complications and the insurance companies paid off *fast*.

So that's where I stand. There's a gray area. The longer you get into a pregnancy, the fewer options (I believe) one should have. Can I draw a line? No. But I know every rule has it's exceptions.