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Originally Posted by ijusluvit
I also stay in this forum to try to participate in intelligent discussion, so I'll go right to what you describe as your problem "handing over that much power to the federal government." That's really at the core of disagreement between conservatives and liberals, so lets talk about it. In the short term, a mere 18 months, the current administration and Congress has taken a number of steps, none of which is appears to be unconstitutional. If any of those actions are unconstitutional they will be addressed in the future by the courts according to our pretty good formula for the separation and balance of powers. If any of those actions proves so unpopular with the electorate, they will be repealed in the future. IMHO I do not believe that any of the recent laws passed or actions taken will be overturned in the future. More importantly, I suggest that Thomas Jefferson and others who first expressed fears about a powerful central government, would support a revised, more centrist view if they were with us today. Jefferson would get physically ill to see the power of banks, huge corporations, unions, Wall Street, and especially the lobbyists. He would rail against their oppression of the common man. However, I believe he would support social security and the new health care reform because of the benefits provided for the average citizen. He would have supported financial regulations from the Sherman Anti-Trust Act to the current efforts to regulate consumer credit and financial institutions. I'm not sure how much he would support the effort to check terrorism in Afghanistan, but he would not have expected the Virginla Militia to respond to the 9/11 attack. Our world is different than Jefferson's and I think he would admit that a functional, effective federal government would be necessary to keep the enormous influence of money and power in check, as well as to protect us from dangers far more imminent than he could imagine in his day. So, I'm not attacking you or your position on the power of the federal government. I'm just suggesting that now, more than at any other time in our history, with the world so small and change so rapid, we must be equipped to act as one nation. In a general way, I see the steps taken by the current administration and Congress as a reasonable and potentially correct response to the problems we faced in 2008Everyone is concerned about the financial cost of these steps. There are strong indicators that they will ultimately work and only speculation that they will "destroy this nation". I prefer seeing some positive turn around to the prospect of where we would be today with 'more of the same'. We will see.
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You are correct that we shall see some of the changes will hold up as Constitutional. Several states are involved in challenges as we "speak" to the Constitutionality of the health care reform bill for just one example.
Just the very fact that states have the understanding of our great republic and separation of powers to challenge something is joyful to me. It shows that the powers held at local levels are still intact. The fact that the federal government challeges states rights makes me tremble.
I don't for a second believe the framers of the US Constitution "would support a revised, more centrist view." That centrist view is exactly what they were escaping.
What we forget when we say "Founders" is that Washington, Adams, Jackson, Clay, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Gorham, Hamilton and others who framed a new government, didn't set sail from Great Britian to come to America to form a new nation.
Most are descendents of the original settlers who came to escape the "centrist views" in far flung lands long before the framers of the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution for the colonies. Most of the 1787 delegates were natives of the Thirteen Colonies. Only 9 were born elsewhere.
I think it's important to remember that in order to understand what freedoms and liberties they risked thier lives for and sought and fought for and appreciated. To understand and appreciate this is to understand that the "Founders" would never accept government control and a forced health care system or even social services paid for by forced taxation.
And remember, Jefferson wasn't our only framer of this nation. He was one of many with many different views on what would be a great federalist republic. That is the whole premise to the government we have today. It isn't a democracy where the majority rules.
As to the banks and unions and cooperations and Wall Street, if we had stayed true the course of the Constitution and not veered on the Progressive path, there wouldn't be a discussion of Jefferson railing against these very separate issues you mentioned.
I think the history of the creation of the US Coast Guard (The Revenue Cutter Service) is very important and gives much insight into true American history. Not what we are spoon fed today. Read about John Hancock's slope The Liberty.
Sorry to be so wordy.