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Originally Posted by djplong
Richie: I'll certainly agree with you that *overseas* Islam may be the greatest threat to freedom. But the links I provided showed a *nationwide* poll of American Muslims disavowing violence - IN SOME CASES THEY WERE THE MOST ANTI-VIOLENCE OF *ANY* MAJOR RELIGION.
Now I'll ask you - and to be honest I think you might agree with me here - why do you think that Islam is such a threat overseas? In my opinion, it's something I noticed in the 1980s when Beirut was turning into rubble. I forget who it was who authored the article I was reading back then but the gist was as follows.
"Over there", there's nothing BUT religion. There's nothing to take people's minds off of it. There's no economic success. There's no hope for class mobility. It's as though things are so destitute elsewhere that people have "given up" on this life and figure there's nothing to live for except the next one. Radical clerics seize on this, just like cult leaders in this country prey on the lonely and disaffected.
In today's terms, it's why Europe, by and large, doesn't have a problem with religion *except from recent immigrants* who still seem to have the "old" mindset.
It would also be a good argument as to what REALLY solved the Irish "troubles". The "Celtic Tiger" boom years seemed to coincide with agreements being signed to settle the violence. Only when the economy tanked did some rumblings come up again (I was in Ireland on our honeymoon when they went through their teeth-gnashing over what the bank bailouts would be in 2010 and I was reading about this in their newspapers)
So, Richie, I think I can find the following common ground with you. For one, keep the f'ing radical clerics *OUT*. They can keep their "live for death" mantra back in the catboxes where they came from. Secondly, economic freedom can cure religious fundamentalism - it's harder (though not impossible) to recruit people when they have a hopeful outlook.
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I understand what you're saying but that doesn't explain the 9/11 terrorists who lived along side us for an extended time and still felt it was their obligation to sacrifice their own lives in order to strike a blow for Islam.
It doesn't explain an Islamist and senior officer of our military committing the massacre of his fellow soldiers in the name of Islam after living alongside them and knowing their fellowship for many years.
There are many more examples of these people who live, or lived, among us and did not "lose their true faith".
You don't have to delve deep into the teachings of Islam, as you must do with Christianity, to find evidence of religious directives to smite those who refuse to submit to the tenants of the faith. Everyone who speaks honestly about Islam knows that the teaching is that the latter verses supersede and correct earlier verses. These later verses proscribe the conversion or death of all nonbelievers. Their most honored clerics shout these edicts from the highest platforms of their places of worship, and teach their children these lessons in their schools, or madrasah as they are called.
Still, we have those in the civilized world who don't believe they mean what they say, or that they can't possibly be speaking for the majority of their faith.
I know for those who believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ it is difficult to believe that a major religion would seriously be built on the premise of the literal destruction of all those who refuse it's call. I hope you're right that their is real dissension in this country that has a chance of changing the prevailing teaching in Islam. I guess we Christians can only pray for this.