thank you both for your very insightful replies...the pity is that the "new" forms of government, socialism, communism, collectivism, do not take into account this ever unchanging nature of man and they are doomed to fail...as soon as a communist is given a cow, he becomes a capitalist...he wants to look out for his own family, he wants to get ahead. if he sees he cannot get ahead, he stops working and soon there is no one to provide for all those who have stopped working! this is an old story and you would think people would learn from not only history but what is happening in europe today!