[Quixote]

Originally Posted by redwitch

I'm a firm believer in God and all that is represented by God. I also firmly believe that the words of the Bible have been rewritten many times -- think of the many versions that have come about just in our lifetimes.

There's no denying this. As another poster pointed out, all one need to do is visit Barnes & Noble or go online to see how many versions of the Bible there are!

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

Thanks for your post with which I agree totally since I believe the Holy Bible to be true but we already know many will never listen even though the words are from God and not any man....

But WHICH "Holy Bible," with so many different versions of the Bible available? And who among us is in a position to make a judgment as to which it is?

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

It is totally disgusting that Phelps and his followers are allowed to even be called Christians. They do the true church a great harm and dis-service and should never be allowed anywhere near a funeral. There are many proclaiming themselves to be of God when they are no more than false prophets.[/B]

But Phelps and his followers ARE Christians! And they're not some obscure self-appointed sect of Christianity; they're BAPTISTS! But now I'm confused again by the phrase "true church." What is a (or the) "true church"? How is that judgment made? And how is the judgment made as to who is a false prophet? In terms of judging, I was taught that the job of God is already taken, and besides, no person is qualified for the job anyway....

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

I don't believe a True Saved by Grace Christian could possibly believe such stuff as ghosts and reincarnation.

And to complicate this in my mind, now I read that there is such a Christian as a "True Saved by Grace Christian." How is this determined? Are we back to making judgments/being judgmental?

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

“I can see how it might be possible for a man to look down upon the earth and be an atheist, but I cannot conceive how a man could look up into the heavens and say there is no God.”
― Abraham Lincoln

I'm missing something here. I re-read all the posts and cannot find ANYTHING where anyone says that "there is no God." How does this figure into this discussion?

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

.... The bible was and is written by people using THEIR INTERPRETATION of what THEY heard or thought they heard. The Bible has been rewritten and reinterpreted over the years so many times I would be surprised if it has any of the original thoughts or beliefs from when it was originally started....

.... Please research and stop taking what you hear from an uneducated preacher, your interpretation of a book that has been changed through REWRITE hundreds of times....

Please don't be offended as this is my interpretation of what a LOVING GOD would tell you if you looked deep enough into your heart (made by the creator) with your mind (made by the creator) and just common sense. You must understand and embrace the fact that gay and lesbian comes into this world at birth free from sin.

I would ask that you go to your heart and mind using your most sincere prayer and ask your God for guidance in this mater and stop using someone else's interpretation of God's word. Ask yourself who in the chain of command of religious authority ever said that the KING JAMES VERSION of the bible is the true word of GOD....

We know the first sentence of the above quote is true; it's already been established that there are MANY versions of the Holy Bible, notwithstanding my confusion about how the REAL Holy Bible is determined. Why would the King James version mentioned in the quote be any more of the "true word of God" than any other one? Or are we back to making judgments again?... To go into one's heart and mind to ask God for guidance, rather than simply accepting someone else's views on the subject (or being told what to think and believe...), sounds like an ideal way to live in all ways, not just regarding the court's decision!

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

.... If you follow the logic of an all loving God and not the way the bible has been RE-written with man's spin on it to fit his belief or vision of what is the way to go, then I believe God wants us to welcome all his children and that certainly includes gay and lesbians....

This is also my concept of an all-loving God with whom I have a direct relationship, so to speak, without my giving the space to anyone to get between me and God and manipulate that relationship. My God is, as I say, all loving and accepting. For me, I see little connection between religion and my relationship with God—but now we're back to opinions, and that's mine....

Originally Posted by Schaumburger

If TOTV had existed in the 1960's the same debate probably would have taken place about interracial marriage.

Isn't this the truth?! Remember "the sin of miscegenation"? The details may change, if we're fortunate progress may ensue, but don't we go through the same things over and over? When an experimenter requires a lab rat to find its way through a maze to get its food, it will try all routes until it gets it right, at which point it can just race through. Change the maze and the rat will at first be disoriented and will then being the exploration all over again until it finds the new way through. Put a human being in the same experiment, and when the maze is changed on him or her, it won't make a difference. That individual will keep going the way that doesn't work anymore, saying (with frustration): "I KNOW this way is the right way!"

Originally Posted by billethkid

one thing...... what ever one chooses to believe or sanction or support or not.......is that it still takes a man and a woman to make a baby......

So what ever the man made new laws/freedoms/allownaces/etc change that is one they cannot!

The point in bold above (my emphasis) is without a doubt true. However, what does it have to do with the issue of legally allowing the sanctity of marriage to gay and lesbian couples today (and racially mixed couples a half century ago)?

Originally Posted by CFrance

.... Just because you know gay couples who lived together and never complained does not mean that they never felt the exclusions, financially and emotionally, of not being considered a legal couple.

I know gays and lesbians for whom this is definitely true, whether singles or couples. In general, people feel freer to open up with close friends.

Originally Posted by CFrance

Whoo-boy! I agree with you, redwitch. There was a consortium of people who wrote the Bible, and it was written over a span of time--100 years, I believe....

But many others believe wholeheartedly that the Bible is inerrant and is the direct word of God. These are often persons from evangelical faiths who have a very conservative worldview. Many have come up with list upon list of chapter and verse against homosexuality, for slavery... actually, anything you can think of that fits their worldview. And the other side has come up with as many chapter and verses to substantiate their opposite view.

This disagreement will never end. I believe what I believe and will not change my mind, because I believe in equality for all under the law and hope for people to be treated equally in all facets of life.

Sad but likely true, the point made in bold above (my emphasis). But equally true is that we are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs and should have the freedom to express them without anyone sitting in judgment of anyone else, saying that one view versus another view is WRONG. I stick to my experience of an all-loving God who created EVERYONE in His image—whether or not we grasp the real meaning of "His image"....