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Originally Posted by dillywho
I love good discussions and that is exactly what my intent is here.
I have not said anywhere that GZ deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail. I don't think this rises to the level of Murder 2, but I do think GZ should not be acquitted. I do think that he bears a great responsibility in what happened based on what he did. Reckless endangerment, if nothing else would even work for me. But, the trial isn't over yet.
As to your question as to what it matters which pocket his phone was in, that was my question when GZ said it. My question is not which pocket, but how was TM supposed to know that he was not reaching for a gun? He didn't know who or what GZ was. The law says that you only have to be in reasonable fear that your life or your person might be in grave danger. Given the company indicated that TM kept in Miami, why would he think this thuggy looking guy was not just that...a thug? Some had just suggested that he might have put it in his pocket because of the rain and didn't want it to get wet. Either way, he was expecting the police to call him when they got there so he could tell them where he was.
You're right, TM did have an opportunity to stop when challenged by the neighbor and he should have told that neighbor what was going on. No one at the trial testified that they ever saw GZ getting his head "bashed" into the concrete....just that the scuffle was close to the concrete at one point and that it looked like he was getting hit. Good testified that he couldn't even be sure of that; just that that was what it looked like.
One guy was out there within seconds after the shot and took a picture of TM, but yet did not testify that GZ had TM's arm spread out as he demonstrated. Even those that saw him on top of TM never said they saw that....but then, they were not asked, either. If that were true, then how did the arms get back under him? No one, even GZ standing there looking at him ever said anything about his arms moving back under him. If GZ had seem him put his arms back under him, wouldn't he have done something about that since he already said that he might have been armed? If GZ really thought he was armed, would he not have kept TM's arms spread out until someone else was there to help? Why didn't GZ ask someone to check to see if TM was even still alive? I don't understand why the first officer didn't do that after securing GZ and his firearm. The second officer did and started to do CPR.
If I were on this case in any capacity, those are some of the things I would want to know and am surprised that these same questions have not been asked. I'm not a player in the case, but I still want to know.
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The phone is a non-issue. It doesn't indicate anything.
What Good testified was that Martin was doing a "pound and ground" on Zimmerman. When questioned about actually seeing the blows, he said he couldn't - not because they didn't happen but because it was too dark to see anything other than Martin going up and down with his arms - consistent with a "pound and ground". Couple that with the injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head and, given no other logical way for those injuries to occur, a fair person would have to concede that indeed Martin was banging Zimmerman's head against the concrete. When physical evidence alligns with perceptions of eye witnesses (not to mention the statements of the defendant - who was not aware of Good's testimony at the time), it would be extremely unfair to come to the opposite conclusion and say that beyond reasonable doubt Zimmerman was not acting in self defense.
As to the position of the arms, what does that prove? That Zimmerman was lying? Why would he lie about something like that? If he knew that the arms were under Martin, why would he make a statement that he left them stretched out? If he was such a clever murderer as the defense is making him out to be (with the "knowledge of how to respond to police questions", etc.), why would he make a mistake like telling them he had is arms spread out - it adds absolutely nothing to his case of self defense. As has been agreed to by the medical examiner, Martin could have been capable of minor movements such as bringing his hands under his body. Again - there is nothing here that would, beyond a reasonable doubt, justify sending a man to prison.
In fact, the opposite is true. All of Zimmerman's testimony of the actual scuffle can be mated with eye witness testimony and with the physical evidence, with no holes.