Talk of The Villages Florida

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-   All About Golf Carts and Things (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/all-about-golf-carts-things-156/)
-   -   Depreciation on Electric vs Gas powered golf carts (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/all-about-golf-carts-things-156/depreciation-electric-vs-gas-powered-golf-carts-347412/)

golfing eagles 02-06-2024 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aviator1211 (Post 2298514)
This is outdated information that only applies to the old lead-acid batteries. Beware of gas advocates using outdated information. Lithium golf cart batteries are just like the ones in your cell phone and will last 2000 full charge cycles just like your cell phone battery. That equates to 60,000 miles. The batteries will outlast all of us.

So, using YOUR math, 60,000 miles/2,000 charges = 30 miles per charge. I think I'll stick with gas rather than run out of juice 1/2 way across TV

jimjamuser 02-06-2024 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2298561)
Interesting process, but no mention as to the energy intensity required and whether or not it’s a net positive or negative after considering all relevant factors.

I believe that in the video, they stated that it is easier and cheaper to MINE the exotic and expensive metal there in the RECYCLE plant than it would be to MINE the metals out of the GROUND.
......Also 80% of golf carts WORLDWIDE are ELECTRIC. So, there is a lot of research going on to improve every aspect of E-cart use.

jimjamuser 02-06-2024 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2298596)
So, using YOUR math, 60,000 miles/2,000 charges = 30 miles per charge. I think I'll stick with gas rather than run out of juice 1/2 way across TV

I could see in a few years that each golf course and many retail businesses would have rapid charging stations for use while people played the golf course (or at pickleball or softball) or while they were shopping. The changeover to E-vehicles will NOT happen immediately. but research and improvement WILL.

Bill14564 02-06-2024 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2298596)
So, using YOUR math, 60,000 miles/2,000 charges = 30 miles per charge. I think I'll stick with gas rather than run out of juice 1/2 way across TV

Where do you live in TV that 30 miles is halfway across? (that would be 60 miles wide or 20 miles wide of you're thinking about a round trip)

My cart gets more than 45 miles on a charge which is farther than I want to go in a cart anyway.

As TV grows south it is getting too large to travel from one end to the other and back. For anyone who wants/needs to do that, gas is the way to go.

golfing eagles 02-06-2024 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2298607)
Where do you live in TV that 30 miles is halfway across? (that would be 60 miles wide or 20 miles wide of you're thinking about a round trip)

My cart gets more than 45 miles on a charge which is farther than I want to go in a cart anyway.

As TV grows south it is getting too large to travel from one end to the other and back. For anyone who wants/needs to do that, gas is the way to go.

I'm pretty much centrally located (Now. When I bought in 2014 there were 9 houses south on me and that was the end of TV)
However, if someone lives in Lake Denham and wants to play Lopez and take their cart, they are not getting there and back at 30 miles. Now, in all fairness, I believe most new electric carts will get about 60 miles/charge---I was just using the numbers posted.

If someone wants electric because it's quieter and doesn't smell, I'm all in favor and if they get the range near 80-90, I'll be in that market as well. If someone wants electric because they think they are saving the planet from the myth/scam of so called global warming, then they need a dementia evaluation.

BrianL99 02-06-2024 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2298598)
......Also 80% of golf carts WORLDWIDE are ELECTRIC. So, there is a lot of research going on to improve every aspect of E-cart use.


R&D of any sort, as it relates to gas carts, stopped about 30 years ago.

The 3 only real changes to gas golf carts in the last 60 years are:

1. Went from 3 wheels & a "tiller", to 4 wheels.

2. Added Fuel Injection, about 30 years after it became common place on every other product.

3. Yamaha added a "pad" under the seat to muffle noise, at the expense of heating your butt. Win in the winter, questionable May - October.

JMintzer 02-06-2024 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager (Post 2298299)
Electric carts are very hard to come by. I did a search of used carts and out of 7 pages of used carts at TOTV I only found 4 that were lithium. Given that 40% of carts sold in the villages are now electric it appears electric owners are keeping theirs.
Resale value equals supply and demand...I think thats what you were looking for.

Or, they're newer and people haven't gotten around to replacing them yet...

You have 20+ years of gas carts as re-sale inventory...

Michael G. 02-06-2024 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2298203)
Would be interesting to hear of someone's experience with replacing a set of lead acid batteries with lithium equivalents.


My son did on his "Star" brand cart and because of the extra weight experienced a slower drive speed.
There's more modification than just replacing the lead acid batteries with lithium.

Jury is still out on tire wear.

JMintzer 02-06-2024 09:34 PM

To actually answer the OP, we bought a used 2013 Yamaha in the Summer of 2021 for $7000. It had the lockable dash and an overhead storage tray.

I drove it for over two years (and serviced it once), and it served us well. I just wasn't happy with the suspension, nor the slightly upgraded bench seats.

I much preferred riding in my buddy's 2017 Yamaha QuieTech with high-back El Tigre seats.

So... this past Summer, we sold the 2013 (for $1000 less than we paid for it) and bought a newer 2017 QuieTech with the high back El Tigre bucket seats, overhead storage tray, hard valance (less wind buffeting of the softer valances at speed), speedometer/odometer and LED accent lights for $9500... I had it serviced immediately, and was told by the technician that the cart was in great shape and should serve us for years to come...

I find that the prices drop a few thousand/year initially on the new ones, then about $1000/year after that...

2018's are selling in the $10K range, 2017's are selling in the $9K range, 2016 in the $8K range, and so on and so on...

Personally, I'd look for a nice, clean 2018/19 QuieTech and you'll be good to go for a long time...

Altavia 02-06-2024 10:45 PM

May be a good times to look at referbished carts.

The Golf store at Brownwood has a parking lot full of carts.

Last year, there were very few this time of year.

BrianL99 02-07-2024 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael G. (Post 2298682)
My son did on his "Star" brand cart and because of the extra weight experienced a slower drive speed.
There's more modification than just replacing the lead acid batteries with lithium.
.


That's a good trick, considering Lithium batteries weigh significantly less than comparable Lead-Acid batteries.

The Complete Guide to Lithium vs Lead Acid Batteries - Power Sonic

The Complete Guide to Lithium vs Lead Acid Batteries - Power Sonic

The Truth About Lead-Acid Vs. Lithium-Ion Batteries In RVs

Lithium Ion VS Lead Acid Battery- 11 Key Differences Explained

Lead-Acid vs. Lithium Batteries: Which is Better? - Battery Skills

wamley 02-07-2024 06:55 AM

Wouldnt touch EV, to many issues with getting parts from China or repairs from qualified people. They are quiet and quick though.

Bill14564 02-07-2024 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael G. (Post 2298682)
My son did on his "Star" brand cart and because of the extra weight experienced a slower drive speed.
There's more modification than just replacing the lead acid batteries with lithium.

Jury is still out on tire wear.

EDIT: Redundant post, see post #91

Vermilion Villager 02-07-2024 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2298521)
It’s about 1300 dollars to put a new engine in your Yamaha quiet tech. 750 if you are so inclined to do it yourself. You may never have to do that though. The engines are quite dependable. I’ve never heard of someone’s going bad.

Also, remember you are protecting the environment by not adding large amounts of lithium waste from multiple battery replacements to the toxic landfills.

We like that you are never tethered to the life of ,”Did I plug the cart in?” “I wonder if the batteries are still good?”…….

I checked online and the price you were quoting is for a "rebuilt" engine with a core exchange… Not a factory new engine. I honestly do not know if you could even get a brand new factory engine.
The question for resale would be you would now have to disclose that the engine is "rebuilt". I think that would be detrimental to the value just like it would be in an automobile.

Bill14564 02-07-2024 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2298521)
It’s about 1300 dollars to put a new engine in your Yamaha quiet tech. 750 if you are so inclined to do it yourself. You may never have to do that though. The engines are quite dependable. I’ve never heard of someone’s going bad.

It's hard to find a price for a replacement battery for a lithium golf cart. Some reviews say the lithium cart costs $1,900 more than a lead acid cart so let's say $2,000 for a replacement battery. Obviously, $2,000 is more than $1,300 but that would be for a new battery compared with a rebuilt engine and it could take as little as a few hours in the shop rather than a few days. To me, that compares well.

One possible reason why it's difficult to find a price is there have been few, if any, lithium battery replacements purchased. EZGo came out with their lithium model in 2017. With an eight year warranty, the battery in every EZGo lithium cart sold should still be under warranty. Someone claimed Yamaha has a 20 year warranty on their engine - I wonder what exactly that covers.

You've never heard of someone's gas engine going bad? You only need to spend a little while on these pages to find reports of recent clutch problems, loss of engine power, or battery problems with gas carts. I haven't seen anyone yet report a problem with their battery or motor on a lithium cart.

Nancy@Pinellas 02-07-2024 08:39 AM

We’ve had our gas powered for ten years. It serves us well with only yearly maintenance. 🤞🏼No problems yet.

golfing eagles 02-07-2024 08:50 AM

Here is the lithium battery cart information from Yamaha:

"The Yamaha Drive 2 PowerTech Li golf car, powered by lithium iron phosphate batteries, offers an impressive range for your golfing adventures. Here are the key details:

Driving Range: On a flat track, the Yamaha PowerTech Li can cover approximately 38 miles on a single charge.

Battery Capacity: The lithium iron phosphate batteries have a capacity of 105 amp hours per charge, ensuring you spend more time on the course than with other battery types.

Battery Lifespan: These batteries are designed to last up to 8 years, providing reliable power throughout their lifespan.

Safety and Efficiency: Lithium-ion technology offers rapid acceleration, a higher top speed, and charging times that are 1.8 times faster compared to lead-acid batteries. Additionally, the Yamaha PowerTech Li is 25% lighter, contributing to increased range."

I'm sorry, but 38 miles from a brand new electric cart on flat ground just doesn't do it in The Villages. Uphill????? 7 year old batteries???? No thank you.

Bill14564 02-07-2024 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2298764)
Here is the lithium battery cart information from Yamaha:

"The Yamaha Drive 2 PowerTech Li golf car, powered by lithium iron phosphate batteries, offers an impressive range for your golfing adventures. Here are the key details:

Driving Range: On a flat track, the Yamaha PowerTech Li can cover approximately 38 miles on a single charge.

Battery Capacity: The lithium iron phosphate batteries have a capacity of 105 amp hours per charge, ensuring you spend more time on the course than with other battery types.

Battery Lifespan: These batteries are designed to last up to 8 years, providing reliable power throughout their lifespan.

Safety and Efficiency: Lithium-ion technology offers rapid acceleration, a higher top speed, and charging times that are 1.8 times faster compared to lead-acid batteries. Additionally, the Yamaha PowerTech Li is 25% lighter, contributing to increased range."

I'm sorry, but 38 miles from a brand new electric cart on flat ground just doesn't do it in The Villages. Uphill????? 7 year old batteries???? No thank you.

Don't know about Yamahas, haven't talked to anyone with a Yamaha lithium.

EZGo Advertised: 60 miles on single charge, 8 year warranty
EZGo Experience (after just one year): 45 miles of Villages driving with 1/4 charge remaining according to the gauge

mrf0151 02-07-2024 09:34 AM

With lead acid batteries your range starts to drop off after 2-3 years. That is the sign that you will need to replace batteries soon.
What happens to lithium batteries when you get to around 4-5 years of battery age? Does the range also start to drop off? What warning signs does one get with a lithium battery that it needs replacement?

golfing eagles 02-07-2024 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2298774)
Don't know about Yamahas, haven't talked to anyone with a Yamaha lithium.

EZGo Advertised: 60 miles on single charge, 8 year warranty
EZGo Experienced: 45 miles of Villages driving with 1/4 charge remaining according to the gauge

Better. Like I said, get it to a reliable 80 miles or so without significant drop off with age and I'm in. But I'll probably be dead by then.

Blackie 02-07-2024 09:58 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here it is, designed specially for you.

BrianL99 02-07-2024 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrf0151 (Post 2298784)
With lead acid batteries your range starts to drop off after 2-3 years. That is the sign that you will need to replace batteries soon.
What happens to lithium batteries when you get to around 4-5 years of battery age? Does the range also start to drop off? What warning signs does one get with a lithium battery that it needs replacement?

The life expectancy of most Lithium batteries in golf carts, is expected to be 8 -10 years. Given that no one has had one for 8 -10 years yet, I guess that's just an estimate. They could last longer.

Just like your cell phone, the amount of charge available will decrease with age.

Based on my experience, a 105 amp in your golf cart, you'll have about a 15-20 mile range, depending on speed & conditions.

150 amp is about 25-30 miles.

210 amp is about 40-50 miles.

I could probably get 60 out of my 210 amp, but I'd have to really be nursing it, the entire trip ... & hope it was downhill.

As long as your Lithium battery is charged (operational) you'll be getting 100% power from it, but at some point, you won't get power for the same length of time. At least that's how I understand it.

TomSpasm 02-07-2024 11:42 AM

I've been here 12 years, I have yet to ride in a gas cart, new or used, that I would trade my 2008 Club Car DS electric cart with eight 6-volt batteries for. Rent a newer electric cart for a month, then rent a gas cart. In my opinion, if you do that, you'll buy electric.

Lottoguy 02-07-2024 12:22 PM

Buy a Yamaha gas years 2017-2019. Think about a four seater since you'll have visitors. These carts are easy to maintain and easy to repair when needed. Get the 10 inch tires too.

UpNorth 02-07-2024 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2298764)
Here is the lithium battery cart information from Yamaha:

"The Yamaha Drive 2 PowerTech Li golf car, powered by lithium iron phosphate batteries, offers an impressive range for your golfing adventures. Here are the key details:

Driving Range: On a flat track, the Yamaha PowerTech Li can cover approximately 38 miles on a single charge.

Battery Capacity: The lithium iron phosphate batteries have a capacity of 105 amp hours per charge, ensuring you spend more time on the course than with other battery types.

Battery Lifespan: These batteries are designed to last up to 8 years, providing reliable power throughout their lifespan.

Safety and Efficiency: Lithium-ion technology offers rapid acceleration, a higher top speed, and charging times that are 1.8 times faster compared to lead-acid batteries. Additionally, the Yamaha PowerTech Li is 25% lighter, contributing to increased range."

I'm sorry, but 38 miles from a brand new electric cart on flat ground just doesn't do it in The Villages. Uphill????? 7 year old batteries???? No thank you.

Lame effort by Yamaha. They should stick to making gas carts. I suspect that their current lithium effort is targeted at golf course fleets, where they could be leased cheaply and only need to make it around 18 holes twice a day. No competition to Star or EZ-Go lithium carts, which have more range than most people need.

sowilts 02-07-2024 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coop63 (Post 2298167)
Trying to understand whether it makes sense to start out my village journey with a new or used Golf cart, electric or gas? My sense tells me to buy used until I have a better sense of what I will need it for, other than golf and the occasional leisurely rides to the town squares. I am not retired yet so will probably drive to stores if it’s faster. It seems like electric carts would depreciate faster given the steady decline of the battery.

If I go with a gas cart, how many miles do these things run on average before repairs become more frequent? Would like a general idea of when to buy and sell, to minimize depreciation and breakdowns. Looking for the proverbial Goldilocks zone.

Based on my recent visit, Yamaha seems like the most popular gas power cart in the Villages??

I am interested in all opinions. I have no basis for making a decision yet. Thanks in advanced.

Golf courses have gas and Southern Oaks has EZGO Lithium. Test them out and it’s your decision. There are plenty of opinions; yours is the only one to be happy with. Good luck, I see plenty of both on the cart paths.

Laker14 02-23-2024 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael G. (Post 2298682)
My son did on his "Star" brand cart and because of the extra weight experienced a slower drive speed.
There's more modification than just replacing the lead acid batteries with lithium.

Jury is still out on tire wear.

conversion from LA to Lithium saves weight, generally.
Quite a bit.

tophcfa 02-23-2024 10:01 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2298511)
Same reason we see so many gasoline powered carts, gussied up to be reminiscent of the 1930's. How many Villagers were even around in the 30's?

... or the seeming need of every band that shows up at the squares, to play Mustang Sally.

Mustang Sally? I prefer golf cart Sally, all you want to do is ride along Sally, ride along Sally ride.

Dusty_Star 02-23-2024 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2304232)
Mustang Sally? I prefer golf cart Sally, all you want to do is ride along Sally, ride along Sally ride.

I'll chime in with the chorus:

Ride, Sally, ride

Ride, Sally, ride

:MOJE_whot: That was fun!

Robnlaura 02-23-2024 12:15 PM

I would order a golf cart from China $3800 free shipping

New Fashion Factory Price 4 6 Seats Luxury Electric Golf Carts for Sale With 72V lithium battery 4 Seater Electric Golf Cart some are even cheaper. Exactly where these local companies buy from and markup like crazy

Normal 02-23-2024 12:48 PM

Economics
 
Basic economics, you WILL need to replace your batteries once in a while, you may need to replace your engine. There isn’t an absolute unless you purchase the electric cart. Gas therefore would be a better return on investment.

Bill14564 02-23-2024 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2304323)
Basic economics, you WILL need to replace your batteries once in a while, you may need to replace your engine. There isn’t an absolute unless you purchase the electric cart. Gas therefore would be a better return on investment.

What makes you believe you WILL need to replace Li batteries? Have you done it?

I MAY need to replace batteries in 10-12 years if I still own the cart. I'm not that sure that I won't want to upgrade by that time.

And if it turns out that I do need to replace the batteries, I'll take the $1,000 I saved on fuel plus whatever I saved on maintenance and buy a battery that will give me twice the range I have now. (though it's far more likely I'll upgrade)

kkingston57 02-23-2024 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenLee100 (Post 2298389)
I was told that the Yamaha gas cart was designed to play 36 holes of golf per day, 7 days a week, for 20 years without a major repair. I bought one for me and one for my wife. No regrets. We drive them almost 10,000 miles per year.

10,000 miles a year on a golf cart. Must love driving it. If you averaged 15 miles an hour that would be a 666 hours or about 13 hours a week.

kkingston57 02-23-2024 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2298521)
It’s about 1300 dollars to put a new engine in your Yamaha quiet tech. 750 if you are so inclined to do it yourself. You may never have to do that though. The engines are quite dependable. I’ve never heard of someone’s going bad.

Also, remember you are protecting the environment by not adding large amounts of lithium waste from multiple battery replacements to the toxic landfills.

We like that you are never tethered to the life of ,”Did I plug the cart in?” “I wonder if the batteries are still good?”…….

Agree but hate the smell of the gas cart, especially in the tunnels

kkingston57 02-23-2024 09:16 PM

Had the same thought. Something wrong IF a Lithium cart is slower than a lead acid

kkingston57 02-23-2024 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lottoguy (Post 2298824)
Buy a Yamaha gas years 2017-2019. Think about a four seater since you'll have visitors. These carts are easy to maintain and easy to repair when needed. Get the 10 inch tires too.

Personally, I would not ride in a rear facing golf cart and would not expect anyone else to sit in those seats. So happy I did not buy one

MrChip72 02-23-2024 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkingston57 (Post 2304499)
Personally, I would not ride in a rear facing golf cart and would not expect anyone else to sit in those seats. So happy I did not buy one

Why not? Maybe you've only ridden in the cheaper versions. We got a 2 to 2+2 conversion but we chose a "luxury" package. We love ours. I enjoy riding in the rear facing seats.

Bilyclub 02-24-2024 08:01 PM

Mustang Sally has been slowly disappearing since covid. Most of the groups have Tennessee Whiskey on their list.

PoolBrews 02-25-2024 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2298181)
The most dependable , maintenance free, bulletproof carts you can get hands down are the mid 2013 through 2016 gas Yamaha EFI carts. The carburetor Yamaha’s before then are good, but not as maintenance free. In 2017, Yamaha introduced the Quiet Tech, which has the rear independent suspension and is quieter, but has proven to be less dependable. Older electric carts that aren’t lithium don’t hold their value well at all, and for good reason. The jury is still out on how well the newer lithium electric carts will hold their value. We use a very good golf cart mechanic, who works on carts all day long six days per week, who told me to never sell our ultra dependable 2014 Yamaha EFI.

Of course your mechanic would tell you to never sell your older gas cart. That's how he makes his living. I had a Yamaha Drive 2 for 5 years. Every year there was something getting worked on or replaced. I now have an Evolution D5 lithium cart. Not much to do on these carts other than grease the wheel bearings once a year.

biker1 02-25-2024 07:51 AM

On the other hand, I have a 2014 Yamaha EFI with 2000 hours and 37K miles and it has only needed normal maintenance, which does not include greasing wheel bearings since they are sealed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoolBrews (Post 2304954)
Of course your mechanic would tell you to never sell your older gas cart. That's how he makes his living. I had a Yamaha Drive 2 for 5 years. Every year there was something getting worked on or replaced. I now have an Evolution D5 lithium cart. Not much to do on these carts other than grease the wheel bearings once a year.



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