[MorTech]

EZGO just came out with the Elite golf cart line.
Lithium Ion battery!
Villages Golf Cars should stock them soon.

[permanentvacation]

Here is an article about these Elite Batteries:

E-Z-GO Launches Innovative ELiTE Series Vehicles to Industry - Golf Course Industry

[Kahuna32162]

I wondered how long it would take TV to adopt this technology. I've had Lithium Ion batteries in my cart for over a year now.

[affald]

What is the real life range and cost of installation of these batteries?

[MorTech]

Don't know capacity, range, price yet but Lithium battery tech prices are now about $300 per kwh.
Guessing AC motor at 125w per mile so 8 miles per kw...$1500 for 40 miles. Figure lead-acid pack at $100 per kwh.
Guessing the EZGO Elite lithium series will carry about a $1000 premium over lead-acid carts
We will know info soon. I'm sure TV Golf Cars will carry them.

[rubicon]

Samsung is my favorite brand. Yet their lithium batteries for airplanes and for cell phones ran into difficulty.

The ad speaks to rounds of golf but that measure did not translate well here in TV where many residents use their carts in place of a car.

a round of golf is comprised of driving to a tee, stopping tee off etc
vis a vis driving continually for x number of miles from one destination to another.

the ad makes claim of 5 year life on batteries but every battery mfg makes the same claims but life expectancy seems to vary greatly from such claims.

then we have a question of performance power after a period of time 1 yr,2,3, etc.

finally what is the replacement cost?

[MorTech]

5 year, unlimited amp-hour - so figure the battery pack should last at least 10 years.
10 years from now, lithium replacement pack should be under $100 per kwh.

Lithium tech has a more linear charge profile. You don't have to throttle back for the last 20% of charge like on lead-acid. Lithium batteries have difficulty when you try to stuff a lot of current into them in a short period of time...Just like all battery types. I doubt EZGO will offer a "quick charge" type charger so the lithium batteries will hold up/not explode just fine.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by MorTech

5 year, unlimited amp-hour - so figure the battery pack should last at least 10 years.
10 years from now, lithium replacement pack should be under $100 per kwh.

Lithium tech has a more linear charge profile. You don't have to throttle back for the last 20% of charge like on lead-acid. Lithium batteries have difficulty when you try to stuff a lot of current into them in a short period of time...Just like all battery types. I doubt EZGO will offer a "quick charge" type charger so the lithium batteries will hold up/not explode just fine.

sounds promising

[MorTech]

Lithium battery charge time: guess is >8 miles per hour. Perhaps 10.
The lithium battery pack will be at least 300 lbs. lighter than the lead-acid pack!
No monthly battery watering!

I don't see a downside...yet.

[Kahuna32162]

The only issue I've had so far is that each battery has it's own charger. I have had 1 go bad and it and the battery were replaced under warrenty. I was told 10 year replacement on the batteries and 3500 charging cycles. On average use, I charge my batteries overnite about once every 2 weeks.

[Kahuna32162]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Samsung is my favorite brand. Yet their lithium batteries for airplanes and for cell phones ran into difficulty.

The ad speaks to rounds of golf but that measure did not translate well here in TV where many residents use their carts in place of a car.

a round of golf is comprised of driving to a tee, stopping tee off etc
vis a vis driving continually for x number of miles from one destination to another.

the ad makes claim of 5 year life on batteries but every battery mfg makes the same claims but life expectancy seems to vary greatly from such claims.



then we have a question of performance power after a period of time 1 yr,2,3, etc.

finally what is the replacement cost?

My range is approx 120 miles per charge and I only have to plug it in once every 2 weeks.

[biker1]

I suspect more like 200w per mile. YMMV.

Originally Posted by MorTech

Don't know capacity, range, price yet but Lithium battery tech prices are now about $300 per kwh.
Guessing AC motor at 125w per mile so 8 miles per kw...$1500 for 40 miles. Figure lead-acid pack at $100 per kwh.
Guessing the EZGO Elite lithium series will carry about a $1000 premium over lead-acid carts
We will know info soon. I'm sure TV Golf Cars will carry them.

[PaulDenise]

Mortech and Biker1-- Excellent data based analysis. Rare here in the golf cart form. I am more prone to agree with Biker1 about the watts per mile. But...I think the big thing is that Lithium batteries can be run down to about 0% without killing them. Lead Acid begins to die extra fast when you run them down below 50%. So, the Lithium will give you 'more miles' perhaps for the money, without being killed.

You run Lead Acid batteries down to 0% a few times and you have to buy new batteries. They just never recover from the 'injury'. That is the point that is usually missed here in this forum.

[MorTech]

The EZGO Elite has a single lithium battery array...Not 6 separate battery packs wired in series.
Would really like to know max charge cycles on the EZGO pack! I suspect it is at least 3500 before you start losing significant range.
EZGO Elite uses a Delta-Q QuiQ charger, I just discovered.

My AC motor cart is about 130w per mile and it has "neck-snapping" acceleration
It goes 0-20 faster than a Tesla 0-60 in Ludicrous Mode
The Chevrolet Bolt is about 225 watts per mile!

120 miles per charge! What is the kwh rating of your lithium battery pack?
Must be a very efficent motor. Is it an AC motor?

Another benefit of Lithium is that you don't have to keep them fully charged to get maximum life from them. Lead-acid technology needs to be kept fully charged or they start eating themselves. Yes, lead-acid eats itself faster at below 50% charge.

You can not run lithium down to 0% (or charge to 100%) without damaging them. The charger Charge Profile and motor controller will take this into account. Lithium has higher internal resistance (less self discharge) and you don't have to run a top-up charge every 2 weeks of non-use like with lead-acid...Nor do you run a Desulfator/Equalize charge with Lithium.

[autumnspring]

Originally Posted by MorTech

The EZGO Elite has a single lithium battery array...Not 6 separate battery packs wired in series.
Would really like to know max charge cycles on the EZGO pack! I suspect it is at least 3500 before you start losing significant range.
EZGO Elite uses a Delta-Q QuiQ charger, I just discovered.

My AC motor cart is about 130w per mile and it has "neck-snapping" acceleration
It goes 0-20 faster than a Tesla in Ludicrous Mode
The Chevrolet Bolt is about 225 watts per mile!

120 miles per charge! What is the kwh rating of your lithium battery pack?
Must be a very efficent motor. Is it an AC motor?

Another benefit of Lithium is that you don't have to keep them fully charged to get maximum life from them. Lead-acid technology needs to be kept fully charged or they start eating themselves. Yes, lead-acid eats itself faster at below 50% charge.

You can not run lithium down to 0% (or charge to 100%) without damaging them. The charger Charge Profile and motor controller will take this into account. Lithium has higher internal resistance so you don't have to run a top-up charge every 2 weeks of non-use like with lead-acid...Nor do you run a Desulfator/Equalize charge with Lithium.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Re: six separate battery packs in lead acid
Most of the current golf carts run on 48 volts. Each lead acid cell is 2 volts so to get 48 volts you need 24 cells.
If, you are using 12v batteries each will be 6 cells-thus you will see 6 fill caps. To get 48 volts out of 12v batteries it will be four batteries.
Some carts use 8 volt cells-4 fill caps and so you will have 6 batteries. Other carts use 6 volt cells-3 fill caps so you will have eight of them. The advantage of the 6v or 8v cells is that they will have more storage capacity then the 12v cells.

Re: Desulfation
When, a lead acid battery is stored uncharged you get lead sulfate on the plates-it is not reversible so you loose usable capacity.

Re: Lithium ION
You will get many more recharge cycles if you do not run them all the way down. I've not seen the ones they sell for golf carts. They might well be a single block but like all the others mentioned above it is many separate cells wired together. Lithium ION cells are 1.5 volts so for 48 v it is 32 cells

Re: battery warranty
Watch the fine print. If, you have a car battery with a five year warranty-for example. Should your battery fail, you will fiond the warranty is prorated. Translation you used if for say 3 years so you have gotten 3/5 of the life. You then will find they will want to sell you the same or similar battery by the same manufacturer at 2/5 of the LIST PRICE. No one pays list price for a car battery so you will discover after 3 years use your 5 year battery warranty has little or no value.