[MorTech]

Lithium cells are 3.6v. I am quite sure EZGO lithium pack is just one battery array instead of separate blocks wired in series like Smart Battery. I am guessing EZGO is using Samsung 21700 lithium cells.

Sulfur always falls out onto the plates during lead-acid battery discharge. My charger automatically does an Equalize charge about once a month. I know when it has occurred because there will be a faint smell of sulfur in the garage. During Equalize, the charger voltage is at 62V (48V cart) and you can hear the batteries bubbling.

[MorTech]

Originally Posted by Kahuna32162

My range is approx 120 miles per charge and I only have to plug it in once every 2 weeks.

Assuming you have a highly efficient system of 100w per mile, that would mean you have a 12kwh lithium pack to get that 120 miles.

Did you pay $1,000 per kwh ($12,000) for that?
Who is the manufacturer?
Why don't you just charge it full after every use and have the full 120 mile range every time you leave the house?

FYI - You can get a low mileage 2015 Nissan Leaf for about $9,000...I has 24 kwh lithium-ion.

Current market forecast has lithium cells at $100 per kw within 3 years. That means that 120 mile range with lithium pack will cost you $1200. Electricity cost for that 120 miles at $0.12 per kwh so say $1.50...Compare to gasoline at $7.50. Zero maintenance cost on the electric cart besides tire changes for 10 years...Compare to gasoline cart of about $80 per year (oil, filters, belt, plug, battery). No smell, No noise. With the expansion of TV south of 44, I would want an 80 mile range.

I am guessing the EZGO Elite is about 110w-115w per mile and about 300 lbs lighter compared to their lead-acid cart.

[biker1]

Contemporary gas carts get 50+ mpg so the gas cost is more like $5.25 per 120 miles, not $7.50. Also, my annual maintenance cost is more like $40 per year, not $80 per year. I do my own maintenance - it is trivial if you own a socket set. Regardless, the annual operating costs are trivial compared to the purchase price. I use the figure of approximately 5 cents per mile.

Current market forecasts for lithium-ion batteries are more like $200+ per kWh by 2020, not $100 per kWh. I drive my gas cart 4000 miles per year for $160 in gas. For the price of a lithium-ion battery pack I can drive my gas cart for 15 years. In 15 years, I will probably buy a golf cart with a lithium-ion battery pack (or whatever is the cost effective battery technology), when the cost is substantially lower than it is now. Early adopters usually pay a substantial price penalty.

My cart has no smell and is very quiet as it has a substantial amount of sound deadening material. It also has a 250 mile range. Different strokes ...

Originally Posted by MorTech

Assuming you have a highly efficient system of 100w per mile, that would mean you have a 12kwh lithium pack to get that 120 miles.

Did you pay $1,000 per kwh ($12,000) for that?
Who is the manufacturer?
Why don't you just charge it full after every use and have the full 120 mile range every time you leave the house?

FYI - You can get a low mileage 2015 Nissan Leaf for about $9,000...I has 24 kwh lithium-ion.

Current market forecast has lithium cells at $100 per kw within 3 years. That means that 120 mile range with lithium pack will cost you $1200. Electricity cost for that 120 miles at $0.12 per kwh so say $1.50...Compare to gasoline at $7.50. Zero maintenance cost on the electric cart besides tire changes for 10 years...Compare to gasoline cart of about $80 per year (oil, filters, belt, plug, battery). No smell, No noise. With the expansion of TV south of 44, I would want an 80 mile range.

I am guessing the EZGO Elite is about 110w-115w per mile and about 300 lbs lighter compared to their lead-acid cart.

[MorTech]

A 21700 cell is right at $10 which is $222 per kwh.
LG is supplying GM (Bolt/Volt) today at $150 per kwh.

Which cart is getting 50 mpg? My neighbors 2015 Yamaha EFI gets about 35 mpg.
The oil needs changing every 1000 miles at $20. The starter battery is $100 for 5 years. Right there is $100 per year.

OK then, $0.03 difference gas/electricity x 4000 miles is $120 per year so figure $120 for maintenance and $120 gasoline = $240 per year less for electric cart. Even if you need to replace the lithium pack at 5 years ($240x5=$1200), it is break even. The only downside with electric is range per charge and charge time (250 miles with a 4 minute "charge" time for gasoline can't be beat ) but there is nothing to break or wear on an AC electric cart drive train...It is mostly solid state except for one relay and one motor shaft end bearing. Also, whenever I leave the house, I know I have 60 miles of range. I can't even remember the last time I looked at my fuel gauge. I put about 5500 miles per year on mine but hardly ever go more than 20 miles between charges.

We will see soon what the EZGO Elite can do...And at what cost.

[rubicon]

I purchased new a 2015 EFI. My dealer recommended changing the oil once the cart mileage reached 1,000 miles. I did. My dealer stated maintenance thereafter is every 4500 miles. My 2015 cart has 1600 miles on it. so I will call my dealer in 3 years.

the issue with batteries has always been limited power storage and the continually charging. I was pleased to read one post with the extraordinary claim that lithium batteries needed to be charged only once every two weeks. My gas cart gets refilled once the gauge reaches 1/2.

engineers are working out the problems associated with storage of power. It is exciting, productive and hopefully profitable for sellers and buyers with advances in technology.

Meantime my EFI solves my immediate problem of distance anxiety and easy storing. I look forward to the advances with electric cars and carts

[biker1]

I can't speak for your neighbor but my Yamaha EFI gets 50-52 mpg, consistently. I do 3 oil changes a year at $5 per oil change or $15 per year. A new battery is about $80 and, yes, they do last about 5 years (based on friends with older carts). The engine should last about 4000 hours or 60,000+ miles. As I already indicated, the annual operating costs are very low (and I tend to be a bit AR with regard to maintenance). I only point these out because the numbers you posted are not representative of what I experience. I would put the difference in operating costs between gas and electric at a total of $120 per year for 4000 miles per year, not $240 per year. This excludes battery replacements cost for the electric cart - just fuel (gas vs. electricity) and maintenance. At least for me anyway as I do my own maintenance.

GTM Research has the 2020 estimate for Lithium-ion at $217 per kWh. If you search long enough I suppose you can find some unqualified statistic that indicated something different. What does a 6 kWh lithium-ion battery pack for an existing golf cart cost today, installed, with electronics, and charger? $2500? It would take 20 years to break even. If you are buying a new EZGO cart with Lithium-ion batteries, what is the incremental cost over a new gas cart? If it is $1000 then it looks attractive. If it is $3000 then not so much. The industry quoted price per kWh for raw lithium-ion parts is not what you will pay in an end product like a golf cart.

As I already stated, different strokes ... However, I would guess that 10 years from now only electric carts will be manufactured.

Originally Posted by MorTech

A 21700 cell is right at $10 which is $222 per kwh.
LG is supplying GM (Bolt/Volt) today at $150 per kwh.

Which cart is getting 50 mpg? My neighbors 2015 Yamaha EFI gets about 35 mpg.
The oil needs changing every 1000 miles at $20. The starter battery is $100 for 5 years. Right there is $100 per year.

OK then, $0.03 difference gas/electricity x 4000 miles is $120 per year so figure $120 for maintenance and $120 gasoline = $240 per year less for electric cart. Even if you need to replace the lithium pack at 5 years ($240x5=$1200), it is break even. The only downside with electric is range per charge and charge time (250 miles with a 4 minute "charge" time for gasoline can't be beat ) but there is nothing to break or wear on an AC electric cart drive train...It is mostly solid state except for one relay and one motor shaft end bearing. Also, whenever I leave the house, I know I have 60 miles of range. I can't even remember the last time I looked at my fuel gauge.

We will see soon what the EZGO Elite can do...And at what cost.

[Paulz]

Back on topic, Lithium batteries in golf carts. I have an EZGO RXV 2014 electric. I upgraded to Trogan Rangers last November adding 72lbs (12 x 6) to the cart. The ride improved. I wonder if they are going to tune the suspension to the reduced weight?

[MorTech]

Originally Posted by rubicon

I purchased new a 2015 EFI. My dealer recommended changing the oil once the cart mileage reached 1,000 miles. I did. My dealer stated maintenance thereafter is every 4500 miles. My 2015 cart has 1600 miles on it. so I will call my dealer in 3 years.

What does your owners manual state for oil change interval?
Who's your dealer? I think your dealer wants to sell you a new cart in 3 years
(use a HDEO 10w30 engine oil - 1000 miles or yearly)

[biker1]

I agree completely. The owner's manual list several intervals for oil changes, one of which is 1250 miles. I change about every 75 hours and use Mobil 1 10w-30. An oil change takes about 10-15 minutes if you do it yourself, and most of that is drinking coffee while the oil drains.

Originally Posted by MorTech

What does your owners manual state for oil change interval?
Who's your dealer? I think your dealer wants to sell you a new cart in 3 years
(use a HDEO 10w30 engine oil - 1000 miles or yearly)

[MorTech]

I always used Rotella T5 10w30. I noticed a lot of 2-3 year old gas cart engines rattle like they are ready to explode. Are they all told to change oil at 4500 by the dealers?

[Arctic Fox]

Originally Posted by biker1

I would guess that 10 years from now only electric carts will be manufactured.

and maybe hydrogen fuel cell rather than battery

[biker1]

The big issue with hydrogen fuel cells is a distribution network for the hydrogen.

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox

and maybe hydrogen fuel cell rather than battery

[biker1]

Carts and Clubs essentially recommends once per year servicing, at which point they will change the oil, air filter, and spark plug. I think the oil should be changed more frequently and the air filter and spark plug can go much longer.

Originally Posted by MorTech

I always used Rotella T5 10w30. I noticed a lot of 2-3 year old gas cart engines rattle like they are ready to explode. Are they all told to change oil at 4500 by the dealers?

[MorTech]

Owners manual states 1200 miles or yearly oil changes for the 2015 Yamaha EFI.
That's about 5 times a year for my neighbor...I wonder if he knows that

Golf cart gas engines take quite a beating in terms of stop/start shock loads on the drive train. It is remarkable that they hold up as long as they do. Yeah, small oil capacity + no oil filter = Changed the oil frequently.

[MorTech]

Originally Posted by Paulz

Back on topic, Lithium batteries in golf carts. I have an EZGO RXV 2014 electric. I upgraded to Trogan Rangers last November adding 72lbs (12 x 6) to the cart. The ride improved. I wonder if they are going to tune the suspension to the reduced weight?

Two things I don't like about EZGO is the suspension and the slow ramp-up of acceleration. The EZGO have leaf springs, and like a pickup truck, seams to ride better when loaded down. Taking all that weight out might improve the ride...We will see. I assume you mean 8v x 6.