Lithium Battery Conversion

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  #16  
Old 01-01-2020, 08:28 PM
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JoMar JoMar is offline
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Originally Posted by williep View Post
Has anyone tried the Allied Lithium battery conversion kit? They replace six 8volt batteries with Four 12volt batteries. They are a direct conversion because they are the same size as the present batteries so you remove the old batteries and drop 4 of these in their place. They have built in battery control circuitry and can use your present charger. They weigh about 1/4 as much as your present batteries and will last over 10 years. Depending on the amp hour rating of the ones you buy, you can do the conversion for around $2K. and will go over 60 miles. What's not to like? I'm sick of buying lead acid that don't last and are heavy and require maintenance. These are the future of golf cart propulsion. Buying lead acid now, is like buying a rotary phone. What's the down side?
Downsides are: 1) You state 10 years, what happens if they need to be replaced sooner. The Warranty isn't for 10 years? 2) You assume folks will keep their carts for 10 years, wonder how many actually do?

I upgraded to no maintenance Trojan batteries, I expect a $1,000 replacement at 3.5 years which means I will have $2K investment at 7 years (unless I get longer life or prices come down) but in any event I will have turned over the cart by that time.

It's new cart so I'm getting 60 miles on a full charge (truth is I have only driven it 52 and had 1/4 charge left if I can believe the gauge). I replaced the batteries in my previous cart when my range was down to 25 miles......that's my personal limit.
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  #17  
Old 01-02-2020, 02:03 AM
MorTech MorTech is offline
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Originally Posted by Microcodeboy View Post
I made a 180ahr pack using the Orion Jr BMS. It is excellent and has lots of options in software. Designed for a 16 cell pack. Range is way more than I will ever need. Ac motor also helped make it a fun cart to drive. Way better than Yamaha stock!
That's the BMS I was going with...I want to keep the lithium pack between 15%-90% SOC. I like the passive battery balancing...How's that working out?

Yamaha stock has the Toyota 350A controller and AC motor. Did you install a Navitas TAC 2.0 AC Controller?
  #18  
Old 01-02-2020, 07:18 AM
MCJEFE MCJEFE is offline
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Originally Posted by MorTech View Post
That's the BMS I was going with...I want to keep the lithium pack between 15%-90% SOC. I like the passive battery balancing...How's that working out?

Yamaha stock has the Toyota 350A controller and AC motor. Did you install a Navitas TAC 2.0 AC Controller?
I've a friend who has built over 25 Nissan Leaf packs and used Orion Jr. In his first one for himself. It's a good BMS but very $$$ and he's not used it again.

If you are building a Nissan Leaf pack, you may want to check out Zeva for your BMS they make a nice unit if you want a monitor I've used it in 2 packs. Now I have switched to ordering straight from china and get a bluetooth smart 14S BMS for around $80.

In fact I have 14 modules sitting on the shelf wired I parallel balancing now waiting for DHL to arrive with my BMS. Lol

This is a link to one of my builds if it helps:
DIY 101 - 14 cell Nissan Leaf lithium pack

Last edited by MCJEFE; 01-02-2020 at 07:30 AM.
  #19  
Old 01-04-2020, 05:43 AM
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I have not totally rules out the Zeva v3...I need to find time to do more research.

I gots 16s LiFePO4 prismatics, 150ah...120ah usable.

I just need to make more time for this project
  #20  
Old 01-05-2020, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MorTech View Post
I have not totally rules out the Zeva v3...I need to find time to do more research.

I gots 16s LiFePO4 prismatics, 150ah...120ah usable.

I just need to make more time for this project

Keep us posted.
  #21  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by williep View Post
Has anyone tried the Allied Lithium battery conversion kit? Depending on the amp hour rating of the ones you buy, you can do the conversion for around $2K. and will go over 60 miles. What's not to like? I'm sick of buying lead acid that don't last and are heavy and require maintenance. These are the future of golf cart propulsion. Buying lead acid now, is like buying a rotary phone. What's the down side?
You couldn't have said it any better. There is a reason that Club Car, EZGO and Yamaha all offer carts with Lithium Golf Cart Batteries straight from the factory now.

We talk to thousands of golf cart owners every month, and have seen a huge uptick in the request for lithium golf cart batteries. We recently became distributors for Allied Lithium and RELiON. We converted our shop EZGO cart from Trojan Lead Acid batteries to Allied Lithium 50 Amp Hours setup. AMAZING product. Cart charges up in 2-3 hours. Runs strong.

Our team just wrote an article on why Lithium Golf Cart Batteries are the future. If you are thinking about converting, read this article. The cost has come down significantly this past year. And the benefits are hard to beat:

Why Lithium Golf Cart Batteries are the Future

We still carry basic Trojan Lead Acid batteries, but see those getting phased out the next 10 years or so, as battery technology continues to advance.

Thanks!
Alex of the GCTS Team
  #22  
Old 01-22-2020, 09:21 AM
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Default Solar is another option

Mine is 6 years old now still can go 70miles if I wanted to.

Retro fit is about $800


Works great
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  #23  
Old 01-22-2020, 12:06 PM
KennyP KennyP is offline
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The math here doesn't really work out. If a golf cart draws 50ah at 15mph, (granted this is a general rounded off number, and there would be variations). So if I drove 2 hours, my cart would draw 100 ah in that time at 15 mph, I would have gone about 30 miles.
But as some are stating here I could go 70 miles with a 120AH pack? Lithium is not some miracle battery, yes lighter weight, so there would be a distance gain there, but not 10 miles or more. Math is math and a battery rated at 100 ah is a battery rated at 100ah. Reminds me as a kid when you tried to trick someone and ask them what weighed more, a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers.
  #24  
Old 01-22-2020, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by KennyP View Post
The math here doesn't really work out. If a golf cart draws 50ah at 15mph, (granted this is a general rounded off number, and there would be variations). So if I drove 2 hours, my cart would draw 100 ah in that time at 15 mph, I would have gone about 30 miles.

But as some are stating here I could go 70 miles with a 120AH pack? Lithium is not some miracle battery, yes lighter weight, so there would be a distance gain there, but not 10 miles or more. Math is math and a battery rated at 100 ah is a battery rated at 100ah. Reminds me as a kid when you tried to trick someone and ask them what weighed more, a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers.
Kenny,
Your confusing amps and amp hours. Also the useable capacity for FLA and lithium is apples and oranges.

Basically Amps or ampere or amperage is the current flow. Amp hours is measurement of a batteries capacity.

Here's a great resource to read up a little:

Battery Information Table of Contents, Basic to Advanced

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Last edited by MCJEFE; 01-22-2020 at 03:41 PM.
  #25  
Old 01-22-2020, 03:53 PM
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It is better to use Wh. Assume about 200 Wh per mile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyP View Post
The math here doesn't really work out. If a golf cart draws 50ah at 15mph, (granted this is a general rounded off number, and there would be variations). So if I drove 2 hours, my cart would draw 100 ah in that time at 15 mph, I would have gone about 30 miles.
But as some are stating here I could go 70 miles with a 120AH pack? Lithium is not some miracle battery, yes lighter weight, so there would be a distance gain there, but not 10 miles or more. Math is math and a battery rated at 100 ah is a battery rated at 100ah. Reminds me as a kid when you tried to trick someone and ask them what weighed more, a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers.

Last edited by biker1; 01-22-2020 at 09:05 PM.
  #26  
Old 01-22-2020, 07:07 PM
MCJEFE MCJEFE is offline
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I have personally done distance checks on my Precedent, 40+ miles, and my Ezgo RXV, 53+ miles, for a single charge. I built both packs myself. The actual measured useable capacity from 57.5v to 50v. is 90AH for both packs. The only difference is that Club Car is a DC system and the RXV has an AC system which is ~20 more efficient.

I have driven from Orange Blossom to Brownwood (13.2 mi. one way), played 9 holes, drove around a bit sightseeing and then back to Orange Blossom with right at 50% left in the pack.

Due to the linear discharge curve, these batteries will not suffer from "voltage sag" like FLA's. This means with a nearly dead battery you can drive over the bridge at 20 mph from a stand still at the bottom. These batteries should still have nearly the same capacity in 5 years as today due to the low stressing of the cells (never charged over 80% or discharged under 25%, seldom under 50%). I have Zero, 0, zip, none, nada routine maintenance. When I leave I simply charge to 50-80% unplug 2 connectors and walk away, when I return after several months it may have 1/10 of 1 volt loss. I keep a 50' extension cord just in case I ever need to charge with the onboard charger.

I also hear that lithium is dangerous all the time. Ponder this: that awesome new smoke detector that lasts for ten years, has a battery in it that has the same chemistry as most of the "drop in" lithium golf cart batteries.... if it was a fire hazard would they be putting them in smoke detectors... It is much more likely that someone will suffer acid burns from an exploding FLA battery or poisoning from the hydrogen sulfide from charging than a lithium fire. I hear all the time that gas carts are safer... let a spark fall anywhere near a shot glass of gas.... and then there's carbon monoxide and carcinogens.

Typically lithium cells if produced correctly will only become dangerous (a fire hazard) if they are ever (even once) over charged or over discharged. If this ever happens they should be removed from service. Most batteries, but not all have protections built in, so I recommend verifying especially if they're affordable. Over charging or over discharging can cause dendrite growth within the cell (like mini stalagmites) which can pierce the thin membrane that separates the two sides of the cell and cause a fire.
The other common cause of lithium fire is because of manufacturing defects in the membrane (Samsung cells around 7 years ago) or off brand manufactures using cheap materials. Samsung had a hiccup years ago but is a top of the line lithium cell manufacturer.

Don't get me wrong, lithium is not perfect, but don't believe everything you heard from someone who was told a friend or read it on Facebook... because we all know that Villagers are typically current with technology. Lol.

Do your own research and make an informed decision. Get batteries that are only made using quality cells such as Panasonic or Samsung. If they don't disclose what cells are used in their batteries I would keep looking. If a battery company uses quality cells, they will use that as a selling point for informed consumers and typically list it in the specs.

The system that looks most interesting to me is new to market from a company called RoyPow which is a subsidiary of EVE Energy which is a big energy company in China and also produces their own cells. I've been looking at the S51105, which is a 105AH, 16 module, self contained with a BMS and necessary safeties and a 15 amp charger for around $1,850.

Last edited by MCJEFE; 01-22-2020 at 07:35 PM.
  #27  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:41 PM
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Good find on that RoyPow battery, MCJEFE ! I would probably do that if I hadn't purchased the cells already ! But I do need/want more than 105ah capacity.

Really? 1.7ah per mile with your EZGO RXV AC? That's quite efficient. It has the Curtis 235A controller(?). Regen Braking?

The EZGO Elite Lithium uses Samsung SDI cells.

I like the kick-in-the-seat acceleration performance of the EZGO 72V cart. Give it a test drive next time you are at TVGC.

The only real problem with the lithium cells is that over time the liquid electrolyte will eventually evaporate out of the cell (like electrolyte capacitors). You really need to slow charge the suckers so they don't get too hot...Perhaps 0.3C maximum to get extended life from them...Maybe 15 years. It is also a good idea to have a BMS with low temperature cutoff since charging at less than 32F will ruin the lithium cells....Granted, not a big problem in Florida.

Last edited by MorTech; 02-04-2020 at 12:08 AM.
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