[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by TomPerry

Gasoline in a vehicle tank being stored in a garage with no action being taken on it is extremely less hazardous than lithium batteries being in a garage hooked up to a charger and charging at a high rate!! But then again, “arguing facts and logic with a liberal is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end”.

Where did gas tanks and garages come from? Only a fool tries to argue when they can't follow the conversation.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

There is certainly an increased risk with lithium vs lead batteries but is there an increased risk with batteries in EVs vs gasoline in cars? The statistics in the article show that fires happen, even on ships not carrying cars. Fires do happen on car carriers, though this article that seems to be implying that lithium batteries are dangerous doesn't provide statistics to show that lithium batteries were involved.

While correlation does not prove causation, the information in the article does not even show correlation.

I am not ready to give up my electric cart or my electric hedge trimmer or my e-bike (if I owned one) because one of 13 car carriers that burned had an EV onboard (500 out of 3800) or because there was a fire on at a BMW dealership and some BMWs are EVs (did they even have vehicles on the 3rd floor?).

Be aware? Yes. Be concerned? Maybe. Avoid EVs and other e-stuff because of batteries? Not at this point.

NTSB: Used vehicle battery caused weeklong cargo ship fire
Reddit - Dive into anything

regular batteries caused the fires. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIeq22UGyn8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIQDhls-A44

lithium ion batteries caused the fires . .

so batteries cause fires, whether lead acid or lithium ion, whether gas or electric. . and since lithium ion is a more dangerous fire, intensity and difficulty putting out, everything will be fine, until it isn't, just like everything else where historically the risk is very, very low, but not zero. Some of use don't like that risk to reward, others play the odds. .

neither are wrong, but one has the opportunity to be very disappointed or inconvenienced. ..

good luck. .

[MorTech]

I suspect it was a DIY lithium setup. The EZGO Elite lithium charges a about 0.15C which makes a thermal runaway event near zero likelihood. EZGO has sold over 150,000 Lithium carts. The EV will never replace hydrocarbon propulsion cuz, um, Physics. EV makes sense in products up to about some passenger cars and some delivery vans but does not make sense otherwise. You can not beat a hydrocarbon for motive energy density...And you are not carrying a 100kw bomb underneath you that produces its own oxygen as it burns. EVs can be mobile crematoriums so be careful.

Factoid: If you try to extinguish a lithium battery fire with CO2 smothering, you will just be feeding the flame with oxygen because the energy of the lithium fire is so high that it will break the carbon/oxygen bond. The only way to put it out is douse it with lots of water until it cools to a stop.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by bcsnave

Oh my, Jacksonville fire dept issues warnings June 2023

Lithium batteries in golf cart spark fire that destroys E-Town home, firefighters say

New technologies tend to frighten people. Batteries will improve and become safer. In 1900 people were VERY MAD that those "newfangled" automobiles were scaring the horses.

[jarodrig]

Oh my goodness ! ICE vehicle owners must read !!!


Orlando firefighters combat vehicle fire in downtown - Orlando-News.com

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by jarodrig

Oh mi goodness ! ICE vehicle owners must read !!!


Orlando firefighters combat vehicle fire in downtown - Orlando-News.com

Crews arrived on the scene within 4 minutes of receiving the call. Upon arrival, firefighters ensured that the occupants of the vehicle had safely exited before they rapidly extinguished the fire. An EV would have burned for several hours.

[jarodrig]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

Crews arrived on the scene within 4 minutes of receiving the call. Upon arrival, firefighters ensured that the occupants of the vehicle had safely exited before they rapidly extinguished the fire. An EV would have burned for several hours.

4 minutes !! That’s great . I’m sure that the owner jumped right in and drove it home after the fire was “quickly” extinguished !

There are MANY , MANY more car fires involving ICE vehicles than EV’s …. Probably at least 10 to 1 but you can research that if you’re interested.

Granted , there are MANY, MANY more ICE vehicles than EV’s but guess what ?

The end result is the same ….. both cars will be totaled by the insurance companies………..

The point I was trying to make is that the sky, in fact , is not falling !!!

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by jarodrig

4 minutes !! That’s great . I’m sure that the owner jumped right in and drove it home after the fire was “quickly” extinguished !

There are MANY , MANY more car fires involving ICE vehicles than EV’s …. Probably at least 10 to 1 but you can research that if you’re interested.

Granted , there are MANY, MANY more ICE vehicles than EV’s but guess what ?

The end result is the same ….. both cars will be totaled by the insurance companies………..

The point I was trying to make is that the sky, in fact , is not falling !!!

That is not the point. The point is that it takes several hours for a fire crew to extinguish, can use up to 3,000-8,000 gallons of water, releases highly toxic gas and has a greater tendency to explode. Yes both cars will be totalled but one is far more dangerous. You can research that if you’re interested.

[jarodrig]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

That is not the point. The point is that it takes several hours for a fire crew to extinguish, can use up to 3,000-8,000 gallons of water, releases highly toxic gas and has a greater tendency to explode. Yes both cars will be totalled but one is far more dangerous. You can research that if you’re interested.

When you do the math , ICE vehicles are far more dangerous and and destructive to the environment than EV’s simply on numbers alone and that’s not even considering the emissions debate !!

There are HUNDREDS of ICE car fires vs a small handful of EV fires YEARLY. So the total man hours spent on extinguishing ICE car fires, water used , toxins from all the plastic in the vehicles exponentially exceed the time spent on extinguishing EV fires. You can research that if you want to !

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by jarodrig

When you do the math , ICE vehicles are far more dangerous and and destructive to the environment than EV’s simply on numbers alone and that’s not even considering the emissions debate !!

There are HUNDREDS of ICE car fires vs a small handful of EV fires YEARLY. So the total man hours spent on extinguishing ICE car fires, water used , toxins from all the plastic in the vehicles exponentially exceed the time spent on extinguishing EV fires. You can research that if you want to !

BTW, you DON’T use water to extinguish lithium battery fires so the water use you suggested is a moot point ! You can ALSO research that if you’re interested !!

EV sales account for 1% of the vehicles on the road and yes you do use water, lots of it. Don't argue with a firefighter.

[jarodrig]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

EV sales account for 1% of the vehicles on the road and yes you do use water, lots of it. Don't argue with a firefighter.

Yes , that why I edited ! And I've already pointed out the difference in numbers between ICE and EV ‘s !

Don’t argue with a police officer that shows up to allow you nozzle nuts to perform your duties safely !

BTW, it’s more like 20,000 gals to combat an EV fire….. yes , I researched it !! LOL !!!

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by jarodrig

Yes , that why I edited ! And I've already pointed out the difference in numbers between ICE and EV ‘s !

Don’t argue with a police officer that shows up to allow you nozzle nuts to perform your duties safely !

BTW, it’s more like 20,000 gals to combat an EV fire….. yes , I researched it !! LOL !!!

Or just gets in the way…

[jarodrig]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

Or just gets in the way…

Only when necessary !

Thanks for your service, brother.

I have 31 yrs of full time service with the Rochester NY PD and DA’s Office.

How about you ?

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by dhdallas

Another "Nervous Nellie". I have 4 e-bikes with Lithium Ion batteries, an electric golf cart with Lithium Ion and a bunch of power tools that run on the same. My next car will run on Lithium Ion batteries. There are better things to worry about for those of you who seem to love to worry. Don't forget to look up every once in a while, I heard the sky is falling. Oh my!

Thankfully, gasoline powered equipment and golf carts are immune to fires.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Thankfully, gasoline powered equipment and golf carts are immune to fires.

Thankfully, no one said or even suggested such a thing...