[Taj44]

This is completely off the track, but when I read about dogs it brings this to mind. My daughter-in-law just spent about $5,000 on hip replacement surgery for her dog. Don't get me wrong, my spouse and I are ardent pet lovers, but it somehow seems a crime to me when I think of the millions of dollars that are spent each year on animals, when there are real people out there who could really use the things money could buy. That $5,000 could have helped a child from a poor family pay for their first year of college, for example. When my cat got elderly, the vet recommened a series of expensive treatments to prolong the animal's life. As much as I loved my cat, he was 17 years old, and in my mind, enough is enough. I'm not going to prolong his life with painful shots, when he's having trouble moving around and barely eats anymore. I had him put to sleep, which in my mind was the more humane action. My husband and I both worked for years, and are quite well off although we're not the types to flaunt it, so its not about the money. It just seems there is a line our society has crossed that places more value on the lives of these animals than other human beings.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Taj44

This is completely off the track, but when I read about dogs it brings this to mind. My daughter-in-law just spent about $5,000 on hip replacement surgery for her dog. Don't get me wrong, my spouse and I are ardent pet lovers, but it somehow seems a crime to me when I think of the millions of dollars that are spent each year on animals, when there are real people out there who could really use the things money could buy. That $5,000 could have helped a child from a poor family pay for their first year of college, for example. When my cat got elderly, the vet recommened a series of expensive treatments to prolong the animal's life. As much as I loved my cat, he was 17 years old, and in my mind, enough is enough. I'm not going to prolong his life with painful shots, when he's having trouble moving around and barely eats anymore. I had him put to sleep, which in my mind was the more humane action. My husband and I both worked for years, and are quite well off although we're not the types to flaunt it, so its not about the money. It just seems there is a line our society has crossed that places more value on the lives of these animals than other human beings.

I understand your point of view, but how people choose to spend their money is a matter of personal values.

To some people even those who have children, a dog or cat is a loved person and a family member. That is lovely in its own way to me.

There are those who might say to those who pay a lot of money to golf that the money would be better spent on a poor childs college education.

I have not chosen to prolong our kitties lives, the last three lived to be 19. But if a person chooses expensive veterinary treatment, all I would hope is that they are seeing an ethical veterinarian and not one who is inventing things or giving false hope....for a whole lot of money. I would hope that for my friends and their choice of doctors too.

Right and wrong used to be so clear to me. Now I see many more shades of gray than black and white.

[Taj44]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I understand your point of view, but how people choose to spend their money is a matter of personal values.

That was exactly my point. Of course people are free to spend their money as they choose. But its just not ethical veternary treatment - its expensive dog grooming, dog clothing, premier pet food, doggie daycare, you name it. I read somewhere it costs on average about $1700 per year to have a dog. As you said, they are valued family friends and we derive a great deal of enjoyment from them. But some of these expenditures just seem a little over the line to me. It seems to me that society's values have changed over time. It used to be we placed more value as a society on human beings than on pets.

[Pturner]

Originally Posted by Taj44

This is completely off the track, but when I read about dogs it brings this to mind. My daughter-in-law just spent about $5,000 on hip replacement surgery for her dog. Don't get me wrong, my spouse and I are ardent pet lovers, but it somehow seems a crime to me when I think of the millions of dollars that are spent each year on animals, when there are real people out there who could really use the things money could buy. That $5,000 could have helped a child from a poor family pay for their first year of college, for example. When my cat got elderly, the vet recommened a series of expensive treatments to prolong the animal's life. As much as I loved my cat, he was 17 years old, and in my mind, enough is enough. I'm not going to prolong his life with painful shots, when he's having trouble moving around and barely eats anymore. I had him put to sleep, which in my mind was the more humane action. My husband and I both worked for years, and are quite well off although we're not the types to flaunt it, so its not about the money. It just seems there is a line our society has crossed that places more value on the lives of these animals than other human beings.

Hi Taj,
I respect your perspective but agree with Gracie on this.

If your DIL's $5,000 would have been better spent on a poor family, wouldn't that be equally true for any of our other discretionary spending. Perhaps it would be more true of other discretionary spending. After all, your DIL spent the money on a loved one. If that's not justified, why would it be justified to spend $250,000 for a house when one could get the same sized house for half that? How could one justify paying $35,000 for a car when $5,000 of that could have gone to a poor child's education. What about jewelry?

[Halle]

I have to agree with Pturner and Gracie on this issue. How someone chooses to spend their money is their business. I prefer to see it spend on the care of a beloved pet, but that is just me.

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by Halle

I have to agree with Pturner and Gracie on this issue. How someone chooses to spend their money is their business.

Add me to that list!

[Skybo]

Originally Posted by Taj44

That was exactly my point. Of course people are free to spend their money as they choose. But its just not ethical veternary treatment - its expensive dog grooming, dog clothing, premier pet food, doggie daycare, you name it. I read somewhere it costs on average about $1700 per year to have a dog. As you said, they are valued family friends and we derive a great deal of enjoyment from them. But some of these expenditures just seem a little over the line to me. It seems to me that society's values have changed over time. It used to be we placed more value as a society on human beings than on pets.

I’ve had a minimum of one, and usually two dogs in my life continuously for the past 30 years. I feed a premium diet and my breed of choice requires frequent grooming. I've never used day-care, but I think it's a good concept. Vet care is indeed very expensive, even if you aren’t faced with a major illness or injury. But those are expenses I take into account when thinking about bringing another dog into the family.

My beautiful heart-dog who passed away two years ago cost me many thousands of dollars over his lifetime as he had several odd health things that popped up, all fixable, but necessary and expensive. When we made the decision to let him go, it was because it was the best decision for him, it was time. But we had the most wonderful 13 years with him.

I don’t regret a penny of it, and I don’t miss whatever material things or extra vacations that we might have used it for. The money I spend on my dogs doesn’t take away from my charitable contributions, and it wouldn’t be going to charity if I didn’t have the dogs. It would be spent on some other personal need or interest. I can't speak for society as a whole, but I know that my expenditures don't mean that I place more value on animals than I do on humans. It means I value my animals more than whatever toy or hobby I might have otherwise.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Originally Posted by Skybo

I’ve had a minimum of one, and usually two dogs in my life continuously for the past 30 years. I feed a premium diet and my breed of choice requires frequent grooming. I've never used day-care, but I think it's a good concept. Vet care is indeed very expensive, even if you aren’t faced with a major illness or injury. But those are expenses I take into account when thinking about bringing another dog into the family.

My beautiful heart-dog who passed away two years ago cost me many thousands of dollars over his lifetime as he had several odd health things that popped up, all fixable, but necessary and expensive. When we made the decision to let him go, it was because it was the best decision for him, it was time. But we had the most wonderful 13 years with him.

I don’t regret a penny of it, and I don’t miss whatever material things or extra vacations that we might have used it for. The money I spend on my dogs doesn’t take away from my charitable contributions, and it wouldn’t be going to charity if I didn’t have the dogs. It would be spent on some other personal need or interest. I can't speak for society as a whole, but I know that my expenditures don't mean that I place more value on animals than I do on humans. It means I value my animals more than whatever toy or hobby I might have otherwise.

Ditto. Well said!

Bill

[batman911]

I would suggest that not every kid needs a college education. If parents want their kids to go to college, maybe the parents need to save the money necessary to fill their requirement. After all, they are their kids. Maybe they should not create kids they cannot afford to feed and educate. There is a choice. I some how managed to find a job and pay my own way through college and gained a lot of work experience and contacts along the way. How about having the kids show a little initative instead of having it all handed to them on a silver plate. I know this sounds harsh to some but I always appreciated that my parents taught me how to get through life on my own.

[JimJoe]

Originally Posted by batman911

I would suggest that not every kid needs a college education. If parents want their kids to go to college, maybe the parents need to save the money necessary to fill their requirement. After all, they are their kids. Maybe they should not create kids they cannot afford to feed and educate. There is a choice. I some how managed to find a job and pay my own way through college and gained a lot of work experience and contacts along the way. How about having the kids show a little initative instead of having it all handed to them on a silver plate. I know this sounds harsh to some but I always appreciated that my parents taught me how to get through life on my own.

I also paid my own way through college with no loans, and law school with only a small loan. I worked multiple jobs. I went to community college and a state school. I qualified for the best named school but could not afford them. It kept me out of trouble too. People were screaming back then it could not be done. bull.
Same thing should apply now. It can be done. You just have to want it bad enough.. and sacrifice to get it.
JJ

[Halle]

Originally Posted by Skybo

I’ve had a minimum of one, and usually two dogs in my life continuously for the past 30 years. I feed a premium diet and my breed of choice requires frequent grooming. I've never used day-care, but I think it's a good concept. Vet care is indeed very expensive, even if you aren’t faced with a major illness or injury. But those are expenses I take into account when thinking about bringing another dog into the family.

My beautiful heart-dog who passed away two years ago cost me many thousands of dollars over his lifetime as he had several odd health things that popped up, all fixable, but necessary and expensive. When we made the decision to let him go, it was because it was the best decision for him, it was time. But we had the most wonderful 13 years with him.

I don’t regret a penny of it, and I don’t miss whatever material things or extra vacations that we might have used it for. The money I spend on my dogs doesn’t take away from my charitable contributions, and it wouldn’t be going to charity if I didn’t have the dogs. It would be spent on some other personal need or interest. I can't speak for society as a whole, but I know that my expenditures don't mean that I place more value on animals than I do on humans. It means I value my animals more than whatever toy or hobby I might have otherwise.

My sentiments exactly I wish I could have said it so well. I too have spent thousands of dollars on medical treatment for my beloved dogs and never regretted one cent.

•"We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." -- M. Acklam

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by batman911

I would suggest that not every kid needs a college education. If parents want their kids to go to college, maybe the parents need to save the money necessary to fill their requirement. After all, they are their kids. Maybe they should not create kids they cannot afford to feed and educate. There is a choice. I some how managed to find a job and pay my own way through college and gained a lot of work experience and contacts along the way. How about having the kids show a little initative instead of having it all handed to them on a silver plate. I know this sounds harsh to some but I always appreciated that my parents taught me how to get through life on my own.

OH...how I agree with you.

I don't think it sounds harsh at all. I think it sounds like you do, did, are doing the right thing!!

[Taj44]

Originally Posted by Pturner

Hi Taj,
I respect your perspective but agree with Gracie on this.

If your DIL's $5,000 would have been better spent on a poor family, wouldn't that be equally true for any of our other discretionary spending. Perhaps it would be more true of other discretionary spending. After all, your DIL spent the money on a loved one. If that's not justified, why would it be justified to spend $250,000 for a house when one could get the same sized house for half that? How could one justify paying $35,000 for a car when $5,000 of that could have gone to a poor child's education. What about jewelry?

To be honest, I wrestle with my conscience over precisely those issues. I could afford a Porsche - I drive a smaller more environmentally friendly car. I"ve never been the type of person to be impressed by a lot of materialism, while I see a lot of people around here buying big homes, can't live without this luxury and that luxury. With all due respect, according to your logic, we are justified in spending every last penny on ourselves, and the heck with the unfortunate. I guess I feel there should be a line, a moral line, somewhere, on the spending and the giving, but its hard to tell where that line is. I know a lot of people do not give to charities or try in any way to help others. As far as the pets, of course we have an obligation to them for food, shelter, and health care, but what about some of the esoteric stuff that people spend money on - do we really need to spend $2000 on 17 year old fido's teeth? Designer dog clothes? etc, etc., etc. I mean a large percentage of the world lives on less than $2 a day. Think of all the good that money could do for human beings.

[JAV0108]

After reading the previous posts I felt that I had to respond to several things. First of all, my Daughter-in-law is in nursing school and is 80 thousand dollars in debt in student loans. 90 percent of the other students in her school are getting a free ride. With what I have seen and read, most of the "less fortunate" get all the breaks when it comes to getting an education if they want one. Now before you all blow up at this, I said "most". My son is also in college and is able to go because he served in the armed forces for 6 years. If he hadn't done that, he would not be going because he in no way could qualify for that "free ride". We don't have a choice on where our tax dollars go, so as far as I'm concerned, I already donate to a child's education. As for pet costs, I agree with what was said about it being my money and I should be able to spend it as I please. I own a dog and he gives me more pleasure than I could ever have imagined. As for my charitable contributions, I give to humans but I also give to the ASPCA and that is MY choice.

[villages07]

Related, but, slightly off-topic .... just yesterday the subject of Pet health insurance came up. A friend of mine with one large and one small dog pays approximately $25/month on doggie health insurance for the two. One pooch was having its teeth cleaned yesterday (under anesthesia) ... my friend said the charge would have been about $600 but will end up costing her about $100 out of pocket. She cited several other instances where it has come in handy.

That got me wondering how many pet owners invest in insurance. There seem to be so many routine and unusual medical requirements for pets that insurance would seem to be a good investment.

As to the $5K hip replacement, that was the owner's choice. If she didn't have the $5K to spend and went into debt for something she couldn't afford, that would be a bit irresponsible. We all have our own priorities.... who's to say what is right or wrong.