True. Aggressive behavior is bred in, not learned. The dogs aren't "bad", just naturally aggressive. They require special care and attention and handling.
"You can take the boy out of Brooklyn, but you can't take Brooklyn out of the boy", and "a leopard can't change it's spots", and a cute little pitbull puppy will grow into a pitbull. Large, powerful, and maybe more than you bargained for.

We (The Bronx) use to have a similar saying about taking the boy(?) out of Brooklyn, but we used a different word.

It must be a blue moon or a cold day in hell because I am disagreeing with OBB.

May I ask, does that “Always” mean that you think there is no Nature to it and that it’s all about Nurture?

To extend my question — are our individual personalities as humans dependent completely on Nurture or are some things just our Nature? (I recognize that as humans our personality traits can be modified by Nurture — or the lack of Nurture — but, even so, I see our individual human Nature as being in us from the beginning.)

Boomer

I'm sure there are hundreds of variation of that saying. I just randomly selected Brooklyn. Could have just as easily said L. A. (calif). Basically, things are what they are. Training will not turn a pitbull into something it is not.

I owe you an apology...

When I called you a "post counter" I had you confused with another poster, who's name also starts with "Bo" and has a hard time making pars...

Mea Culpa...

as time passes & you are here reading, you will learn certain subjects are taboo. in some cases it refers to another media site with less class & low decorum, by allowing posters to run amok. sooner or later you WILL run into the media site, & you will know it when you get there, lol

I have been a Greyhound man most of my dog keeping days. Bred them, and raced them.
So lazy, sleep 16+ hours a day, sociable, and a real pleasure to walk.
Until.
Something small moves!
Then, in most/many cases the genes kick in, and they want to go. Seriously!
The chase is so inbred, that it is nearly impossible to get it out of them.
That does not mean they all want a 'kill' at the end, for most, it's just the fun of the chase.
I had an old arthritic bitch who was grey in the face, and struggled to raise a walk towards the end, but see something move in front of her, the old ears still went straight up!
I believe you can train most dogs to be sociable animals, but inherent characteristics could still come out, if the circumstances are there to trigger them.
Most of the unruly dogs you see, are in charge of their humans.
I loved my dogs, but they all new they were bottom of the family pack, and it does not need any cruelty to get them to understand.
Just firm patience, and never letting them win an argument.
Worked for my wife training me as well, then add three daughters, and I was only one place above the dogs anyway!
JMTC.

This is a question for PugMom:

(A little off track — but not really. It’s a Nature question.)

PugMom,

I have known two pugs who lived together with some friends.

Those 2 dogs were absolutely joyous creatures.

As visitors, we always got the happiest, wiggliest greeting imaginable from the pugs, even though we visited only 2 or 3 times a year, so it was not like the dogs really knew us.

One time, I had left something in the car and after my initial welcome celebration from the pugs, I went back to the car. It took me not much more than a minute to get what I had left there.

Upon my nearly instant return to the house, the. pugs greeted me again with just as much joy as they had the first time.

Those pugs always made us laugh with their happy snorts and dancing greetings. Their owner would say , “You’ve been pugged.” :)

Are pugs always like that?

Boomer

Ah, any Tom Petty fan, well, you know….

Off topic, forgive me; one of my sweetest memories is the time hubby and I were at Golden Gate Park in San Francisco during an Outsideland’s festival and Tom Petty was a headliner (60 bands performed). I think everyone, and I mean everyone, sang along with Petty. He was the best! So miss him.

Domestic dog breeds are domestic, not wild. There is no "nature" in these breeds. It's all selective breeding (man-made) and training (nurture). Pits are not naturally "aggressive." They are naturally very active working animals and need handlers who will give them plenty of work - and activity. They ALSO need socialization, because they are not bred for socialization. Terriers are hunters; it's instinctual, it isn't their breeding. It is a natural trait in terriers to want to hunt.

If you neglect to give a pit bull enough work, activity, and socialization, it will create its own activity, work, and method of socialization. The end result will not necessarily be pleasant for humans. A pit bull is no different from any other terrier in that it needs to be kept busy within the context of its physical abilities. What makes it different is the physical composition of its jaws. When a wire-haired terrier bites, it draws blood, can damage your arm, but it won't hold onto your arm very long. When a pit bull terrier bites, it latches on and basically has a ratchet-grip on your arm - if you try to pull your arm away you could end up with a missing hand.

You’re stating that unless a pit bull has just the right attention at just the right time, it’s innate temperament will take over. You’ve made the argument for us that they can never be trusted.

When you talk "breed" and " instinct", that is nature. Breeding is human directing and using
nature to enhance or diminish certain natural attributes. Not exactly "man-made"
"Terriers are hunters; it's instinctual, it isn't their breeding. It is a natural trait in terriers to want to hunt". Sorry, but the fact that terriers exist is because they were bred into existence. The hunting instincts were heightened as a result of selective breeding. Each breed has been selectively bred to give it certain traits.

I thought all dogs were "domesticated" from wolves. Is that not true?