[Velvet]

I would think there is a continuum between wolves and dogs. Not a sharp delineation of domestication. Some breeds of dogs are much more “independent” and others more “domesticated”. And it even varies in the dogs of the same breed.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Aces4

You’re stating that unless a pit bull has just the right attention at just the right time, it’s innate temperament will take over. You’ve made the argument for us that they can never be trusted.

No, I'm stating what I stated. Different types of dogs need different types of stimulation and care. A shepherd thrives on - herding sheep. Go figure. With a lack of sheep, it'll do fine if it can herd other things. Like people. Guarding for and caring for people, that's what they can do best, as domestic pets. A terrier thrives on hunting for things. Actual hunting - or just looking for stuff. Getting out there and chasing after things that run away. That's what they thrive on. If you don't give them that opportunity, you need to give them some similar stimulation. ALL terriers.

Retrievers - to the surprise of no one ever - retrieve things. That's what they do best, what they thrive on doing. They make great search and rescue animals, and terrific frisbee dogs.

Mastiffs are totally awesome for guarding large expansive properties and estate grounds. If you treat a mastiff like a lap dog (as long as he doesn't break your legs in the process) you should expect him to get really grumpy. And when a 150-pound drooling sack of solid muscle gets grumpy, expect your furniture to disappear - chunk by chunk.

Different types of dogs have different types of purposes - and as a result, different types of needs. If you try to treat a pit bull the same way you treat a St. Bernard, you'll end up with a mess. Just like if you expected your 4-pound miniature malti-poo to serve as a guard dog in your 18-room mansion.

Pit bulls are not lap dogs, they're not shepherds, they're not retrievers. They're hunters. They are domesticated animals, and have a lot of energy that has to be put to constructive use. If the dog lashes out, it's because the owner did something wrong. Or because someone intentionally ****ed it off.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

No, I'm stating what I stated. Different types of dogs need different types of stimulation and care. A shepherd thrives on - herding sheep. Go figure. With a lack of sheep, it'll do fine if it can herd other things. Like people. Guarding for and caring for people, that's what they can do best, as domestic pets. A terrier thrives on hunting for things. Actual hunting - or just looking for stuff. Getting out there and chasing after things that run away. That's what they thrive on. If you don't give them that opportunity, you need to give them some similar stimulation. ALL terriers.

Retrievers - to the surprise of no one ever - retrieve things. That's what they do best, what they thrive on doing. They make great search and rescue animals, and terrific frisbee dogs.

Mastiffs are totally awesome for guarding large expansive properties and estate grounds. If you treat a mastiff like a lap dog (as long as he doesn't break your legs in the process) you should expect him to get really grumpy. And when a 150-pound drooling sack of solid muscle gets grumpy, expect your furniture to disappear - chunk by chunk.

Different types of dogs have different types of purposes - and as a result, different types of needs. If you try to treat a pit bull the same way you treat a St. Bernard, you'll end up with a mess. Just like if you expected your 4-pound miniature malti-poo to serve as a guard dog in your 18-room mansion.

Pit bulls are not lap dogs, they're not shepherds, they're not retrievers. They're hunters. They are domesticated animals, and have a lot of energy that has to be put to constructive use. If the dog lashes out, it's because the owner did something wrong. Or because someone intentionally ****ed it off.

Pit bulls are unreliable with powerful, murderous jaws. If you would enjoy one within your walls, that’s your choice.

[fdpaq0580]

[QUOTE=OrangeBlossom

Pit bulls are not lap dogs, they're not shepherds, they're not retrievers. They're hunters. They are domesticated animals, and have a lot of energy that has to be put to constructive use. If the dog lashes out, it's because the owner did something wrong. Or because someone intentionally ****ed it off.[/QUOTE]

Exactly! They are hunters and fearsome guardians and all that power just waiting to go off, like a bottle of nitroglycerin waiting for some disturbance. Great dogs in certain circumstances. But not, imho, the best choice for a family pet in an urban or suburban environment. That bottle of nitro may never go off, but why take a chance?

[Taltarzac725]

People should check how long dogs have been around. Hard to tell how any genetic group will behave under various circumstances. There are probably trillions of genetic permutations involved with various dog breeds.

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

"People say that Tiger went crazy...

No, that Tiger went TIGER!"


- Chris Rock

EXACTLY, the tiger "went tiger" though raised as a domestic pet. I remember the incident with the killing of the high profile college soccer coach, Dianne Whipple. Killed in the hallway of her own upscale condo while taking groceries to her residence. Said to have been one of the most horrifying homicide sights ever. It's been some time now, but I believe she was attacked by a pair to Presa Canarios "owned" by a couple in the same building who were both very well known, very high profile, criminal defense attorneys. They were keeping the (illegal) dogs for one of their criminal clients who was in prison on charges unrelated to dogs, but he was still running his illegal breeding farm in northern California, and selling of Presas FROM his prison cell in California ! ? ?

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Pairadocs

EXACTLY, the tiger "went tiger" though raised as a domestic pet. I remember the incident with the killing of the high profile college soccer coach, Dianne Whipple. Killed in the hallway of her own upscale condo while taking groceries to her residence. Said to have been one of the most horrifying homicide sights ever. It's been some time now, but I believe she was attacked by a pair to Presa Canarios "owned" by a couple in the same building who were both very well known, very high profile, criminal defense attorneys. They were keeping the (illegal) dogs for one of their criminal clients who was in prison on charges unrelated to dogs, but he was still running his illegal breeding farm in northern California, and selling of Presas FROM his prison cell in California ! ? ?

Those seem to be a dangerous breed. With probably a lot of in-breeding. Presa Canario - Wikipedia

Presa Demand Grows for All Wrong Reasons / Dogs wanted for killing, fighting

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Pairadocs

EXACTLY, the tiger "went tiger" though raised as a domestic pet. I remember the incident with the killing of the high profile college soccer coach, Dianne Whipple. Killed in the hallway of her own upscale condo while taking groceries to her residence. Said to have been one of the most horrifying homicide sights ever. It's been some time now, but I believe she was attacked by a pair to Presa Canarios "owned" by a couple in the same building who were both very well known, very high profile, criminal defense attorneys. They were keeping the (illegal) dogs for one of their criminal clients who was in prison on charges unrelated to dogs, but he was still running his illegal breeding farm in northern California, and selling of Presas FROM his prison cell in California ! ? ?

Tigers have not been domesticated for thousands of years like dogs have been...

Bad analogy...

[Spalumbos62]

Originally Posted by jmintzer

you called me out, citing a post i made to someone else...

And yes, you are a "post counter". You've commented on "how many posts" people have in threads on multiple occasions. You do it as a way to discredit them...

Don't play the innocent victim...

please stop!!!! So childish, there are more people on this beside you. Ty

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

When you talk "breed" and " instinct", that is nature. Breeding is human directing and using
nature to enhance or diminish certain natural attributes. Not exactly "man-made"
"Terriers are hunters; it's instinctual, it isn't their breeding. It is a natural trait in terriers to want to hunt". Sorry, but the fact that terriers exist is because they were bred into existence. The hunting instincts were heightened as a result of selective breeding. Each breed has been selectively bred to give it certain traits.

Agreed. Pit bulls were originally bred for two things: bull baiting and dog fighting. Their build and temperament was NOT a random act of nature.

But...bottom line...A breed that makes up a mere 6% of the canine population in America is responsible for fully TWO THIRDS of all human deaths by dog(s), as well as the majority of dog bite cases needing treatment. The pit bull breed is inherently dangerous. That is enough proof for me. As it should be for just about anybody.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Agreed. Pit bulls were originally bred for two things: bull baiting and dog fighting. Their build and temperament was NOT a random act of nature.

But...bottom line...A breed that makes up a mere 6% of the canine population in America is responsible for fully TWO THIRDS of all human deaths by dog(s), as well as the majority of dog bite cases needing treatment. The pit bull breed is inherently dangerous. That is enough proof for me. As it should be for just about anybody.

Agree!

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Tigers have not been domesticated for thousands of years like dogs have been...

Bad analogy...

Actually I do not think that there are ANY domesticated tigers. A few have been tamed. And a few of those that were tamed had instinct take over and did in their owners.

Truth is, there is no animal (except maybe manatees) that are 100% trustworthy and safe for humans to be around. One has to objectively evaluate the danger and act accordingly. As a kid growing up in the wilds of Northern Minnesota we had a lot of pets: wild animals that had been (more or less) tamed and who hung out with us including deer, porcupines, skunks, woodchucks, hawks, squirrels, chipmunks, bears, Canada geese, etc. etc. But all of them had traits that made them, to a greater or lesser degree, dangerous. A "tame" squirrel can deliver a pretty good bite if they feel threatened, as my brother found out when he tried to stuff a "tame" squirrel into his pocket. One of the worst animal bites I suffered was from a "pet" shrew, a critter maybe 2" long. Bit my finger when I was feeding it a grasshopper. The finger as well as part of my hand was red and swollen for well over a week.

Dogs are no different. Each species carries risks to their human owners. A sensible person evaluates those risks and acts accordingly.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Spalumbos62

please stop!!!! So childish, there are more people on this beside you. Ty

Please read the thread before responding. I have already apologized publicly for my actions...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Actually I do not think that there are ANY domesticated tigers. A few have been tamed. And a few of those that were tamed had instinct take over and did in their owners.

Truth is, there is no animal (except maybe manatees) that are 100% trustworthy and safe for humans to be around. One has to objectively evaluate the danger and act accordingly. As a kid growing up in the wilds of Northern Minnesota we had a lot of pets: wild animals that had been (more or less) tamed and who hung out with us including deer, porcupines, skunks, woodchucks, hawks, squirrels, chipmunks, bears, Canada geese, etc. etc. But all of them had traits that made them, to a greater or lesser degree, dangerous. A "tame" squirrel can deliver a pretty good bite if they feel threatened, as my brother found out when he tried to stuff a "tame" squirrel into his pocket. One of the worst animal bites I suffered was from a "pet" shrew, a critter maybe 2" long. Bit my finger when I was feeding it a grasshopper. The finger as well as part of my hand was red and swollen for well over a week.

Dogs are no different. Each species carries risks to their human owners. A sensible person evaluates those risks and acts accordingly.

No sure why you're responding to me, but I said the same thing about tigers not being domesticated...