Colony Traffic update

[Madelaine Amee]

Information from Village News, the online newspaper I get.

New information on the meeting that took place this morning. Commonsense seems to have been present at this meeting. Scrap the bridge, install traffic light.

[conn630]

Would you elaborate. No website

[rayschic]

Would you elaborate. No website

The website is ************** .com.
Just eliminate the space.
Unable to post a link or website.

[MR&VAF]

Cannot remove. Sorry.

[Bogie Shooter]

Cannot remove. Sorry.

try retyping the URL without the space after news.

[MR&VAF]

I tried copying and pasting the link here as well. Is there a reason that it would not paste into here? Just wondering. I could not delete the post either, so I just removed the link.
Sorry for my mistake.

[Madelaine Amee]

I tried copying and pasting the link here as well. Is there a reason that it would not paste into here? Just wondering. I could not delete the post either, so I just removed the link.
Sorry for my mistake.

I could not post the link. But the main finding right now is as follows:

The Project Wide Advisory Committee has voted 4-1 to move ahead with a traffic signal on Colony Boulevard.

The vote was taken this morning with PWAC District 7 member Ron Ruggeri voting against the idea.

This essentially scraps a plan unanimously approved by PWAC on Dec. 12 to build a golf-cart bridge over the busy boulevard where golf-cart traffic meets automobiles.

A traffic signal at the location will cost roughly $250,000, PWAC Chairman Peter Moeller said.

There is more in the article, I am sure it will be in our newspaper tomorrow.

[rubicon]

In other words go to h---

[gomoho]

In other words go to h---

?????? I don't understand what you are saying.

[CFrance]

I tried copying and pasting the link here as well. Is there a reason that it would not paste into here? Just wondering. I could not delete the post either, so I just removed the link.
Sorry for my mistake.

For some reason the forum will not allow a url to Villages-newsdotcom to appear. Which is why we keep typing the dot-com out. I think it might have something to do with the fact that they don't advertise on the forum. Maybe the Daily Sun does, and there would be a competition issue? I don't know. They do allow other url's to go through, but not this one.

If you google **************, you will find their web site, and you can bookmark it.

[CFrance]

In other words go to h---

?????? I don't understand what you are saying.

I don't either, rubicon. I'd much rather they save several hundred thousand dollars. With a bridge there would still be a merge situation.

[blyarbrough]

Why not just install 4 STOP signs....cost will be about $250....I'll dig one hole.....

[skyguy79]

To post the web address try enclosing it in the code tags (# BUTTON) It should appear in a box like this one It can then be copied and pasted into the browser address box or line.

[CFrance]

To post the web address try enclosing it in the code tags (# BUTTON) It should appear in a box like this one It can then be copied and pasted into the browser address box or line.

What's a code tag #Button? Can you explain further for us luddites?

[Regor]

Still think closing the road where it intersects with Morse would be the cheapest and safest option.

[gomoho]

Still think closing the road where it intersects with Morse would be the cheapest and safest option.

The other day I was travelling west on 466A and the alternate entrance if they closed the road had traffic backed up onto 466A. Don't see how this could be an alternative since traffic was backed up even with access open from Colony.

[Mikeod]

The other day I was travelling west on 466A and the alternate entrance if they closed the road had traffic backed up onto 466A. Don't see how this could be an alternative since traffic was backed up even with access open from Colony.

The second light, by the Shell station, is the better entrance. You don't have to deal with the stop sign.

[gomoho]

The second light, by the Shell station, is the better entrance. You don't have to deal with the stop sign.

Agreed; however, by closing Colony you are feeding the traffic to only 2 entrances off 466A and I have already seen one back up onto the highway. Can't imagine what it would be like if it had to handle all that traffic.

[BS Beef]

Not trying to stir the pot but with traffic that bad already how is putting in a light not going to make it worse? :shrug: Seems the bridge would keep the cart traffic flowing. The light isn't exactly free either. Honestly just asking the question.

[mickey100]

They could get temporary stop signs that are on concrete bases, to create a 4-way stop. This way they could see if stop signs would do the trick. Generally traffic signals are a last resort, and are only used when other methods don't work.

[CFrance]

Not trying to stir the pot but with traffic that bad already how is putting in a light not going to make it worse? :shrug: Seems the bridge would keep the cart traffic flowing. The light isn't exactly free either. Honestly just asking the question.

The part I can't figure out, Beef, is how a bridge would alleviate the traffic jam of carts trying to turn left onto Colony off of the cart path. Wouldn't they still have to merge into traffic already on Colony? It might make the situation a little better (not having to turn left onto Colony), but I can't understand how it would solve the problem.

[Penguin]

Put a stop to the freaking car traffic. If you drive a car enter colony plaza off of 466a. Theres no reason for car traffic to enter colony plaza that way when theres 2 alternative entrances for car traffic. If you don't like that idea go to sweetbay and shop. No bridge or tunnel will be as cost effective and productive as to eliminate the car traffic for 100 yards.

[bluedog103]

Still think closing the road where it intersects with Morse would be the cheapest and safest option.
:agree:

[renielarson]

Here's the Facebook link...you need to scroll down but the story is there.

https://www.facebook.com/TheVillagesNews

[redwitch]

I really can't see Sumter Country agreeing to close Colony to vehicles. As has been said, the traffic jams on 466A would be horrendous. As to four-way stops, I doubt they would be much better -- ever notice how confused drivers get at Toojay's 4-way stop in Sumter Landing and how often a stop sign is run? I'm not convinced a traffic light will work, either. Something tells me those who live south of 466A and, yes, just north are going to be in for some very unpleasant encounters with cars for a long, long time.

[CFrance]

I really can't see Sumter Country agreeing to close Colony to vehicles. As has been said, the traffic jams on 466A would be horrendous. As to four-way stops, I doubt they would be much better -- ever notice how confused drivers get at Toojay's 4-way stop in Sumter Landing and how often a stop sign is run? I'm not convinced a traffic light will work, either. Something tells me those who live south of 466A and, yes, just north are going to be in for some very unpleasant encounters with cars for a long, long time.

Thank you for a voice of reason. One simply doesn't close off a public road. It would inconvenience a lot more traffic than the golf carts who are inconvenienced now, and push the traffic problem down the road to another location.

I do think a traffic signal will work, though.

[skyguy79]

What's a code tag #Button? Can you explain further for us luddites?The code button is on the text message editing page that results when you click either "Post Reply" or "Quote Post" button. It's just above where you type in your message, on the line beginning with "B" for bold. The "#" for code button is the third button from the end of that line.

When you click the B button, the two code tags will appear and you can then type in the web address you want showing for copying & pasting. Alternately, you can have the address typed in, highlight it then click the # button. It will have the same result as with the first instruction.

Now if this doesn't do it for you, then you can consider yourself a Certified Professional Luddite (CPL) and not just an ordinary run-of-the-mill amateur one! :1rotfl:

[zcaveman]

There was an article in the DS (1/7) today on C-4 about a traffic light at that location. I am pretty sure that is the location. I also read someplace else that they did not approve the bridge.

Z

[waynet]

There is room to build an extension of the current golf cart path. Put it between the road and the water so it goes behind the bank and carts could enter next to Beef O'Gradys. This would not solve the entire problem but would alleviate the problem of carts going left and keep them off the road near Walgreens where it is really dangerous.

[LittleDog]

:agree:

However, how would people get to the Colony Rec. Center by car if the road was completely closed from Morse.

John

[cwnavy1]

Now that's a great idea (cart path along the waterway dumping out near Beef O'Brady's) and would solve so many problems at minimal cost. Not all issues resolved, but I bet a good portion.

[CFrance]

The code button is on the text message editing page that results when you click either "Post Reply" or "Quote Post" button. It's just above where you type in your message, on the line beginning with "B" for bold. The "#" for code button is the third button from the end of that line.

When you click the B button, the two code tags will appear and you can then type in the web address you want showing for copying & pasting. Alternately, you can have the address typed in, highlight it then click the # button. It will have the same result as with the first instruction.

Now if this doesn't do it for you, then you can consider yourself a Certified Professional Luddite (CPL) and not just an ordinary run-of-the-mill amateur one! :1rotfl:

Thanks. And I love that cat!

[Wiserbud47]

It seems the discussion can end for now. Today's Daily Sun said that there is going to be a traffic light placed at that location. Let's hope this solves the problem.

[Shirleevee]

Now that's a great idea (cart path along the waterway dumping out near Beef O'Brady's) and would solve so many problems at minimal cost. Not all issues resolved, but I bet a good portion.

I mentioned this to a few people and they thought it a bad idea. Although a traffic light will be installed (today's Daily Sun), I still think the above is a great idea!:pepper2:

[Bogie Shooter]

It seems the discussion can end for now. Today's Daily Sun said that there is going to be a traffic light placed at that location. Let's hope this solves the problem.

Conclusion of an issue has never stopped TOTV posters from continuing to post their opinions..........far fetched as they may seem.:beer3:

[festusrules]

Where will the traffic light be located?

[zcaveman]

Where will the traffic light be located?

From what I can read on this thread, probably where no one wants it.

Z

[travelguy]

ok, so at the last meeting it was announced that there would e a bridge built over colony blvd. and in today's daily sun it was announced that a traffic light will be installed. no mention of the bridge. i wonder what next week's solution will be?

[mrdarcy]

I took the time to attend the PWAC (Project-Wide Advisory Committee) meeting yesterday morning due to the critical nature of the Colony Blvd. traffic problem to all of us who frequent that area. Janet Tutt was there. She said that Colony Blvd has a special status that makes it not quite a publicly owned street--it's essentially the responsibility of The Villages district government. As such, if Colony were completely closed off to car traffic, The Villages district government would be financially and legally liable for all costs to the impacted businesses for blocked car traffic to businesses and to Sumter Co for overflow traffic re-routed onto the publicly owned streets (e.g. 466A). For this reason, the PWAC board chose the more fiscally reasonable option to approve installation of a traffic light.

In addition, Janet said the Morse family is amenable to re-looking at the problem again in the future, if the traffic signal light solution proves inadequate to manage traffic flow upon completion of the districts that have not yet been built (district 10 and the new Fruitland Park Village, recently approved).

I think the PWAC has done a fantastic job of exploring the options, getting expert traffic and civil engineering advice, and seeking Villager input. I also applaud the PWAC board for acting promptly to implement a temporary solution, namely hiring Community Watch to direct traffic, just as the danger on Colony Blvd began to increase manifold with the influx of snowbirds. The members of the PWAC have worked cooperatively with the Morse family and it's representatives to provide for our safety. I think they greatly deserve our appreciation and gratitude.

[LndLocked]

Two questions:

1 - who was it that was responsible for the original design, engineering and construction of this "intersection" ?

2 - is the above party (at a minimum) sharing the cost of the traffic light "solution" ?

[mrdarcy]

1). Colony Blvd lies within The Villages District 7, but I heard no discussion yesterday regarding which individuals or entities designed the roads in the area surrounding Colony Plaza and The Colony Rec Center.

(Do I personally think mistakes were made when the Colony area was designed? Yes. Do I think The Villages is the most unique and amazingly designed retirement community yet developed in this country? Yes. I also understand that when projects on magnitude of scope and scale of The Villages are without precedent, an above average number of mistakes is more likely---"good judgement is based on experience and experience is based on poor judgement." I was recently at The Kennedy Space Center. Not all of our rocket launches were executed perfectly.)

2) The Morse family has already agreed to contribute $100K of the projected $250K cost of installing the traffic signal. Per Janet Tutt, 90% of the infrastructure needed for installation of the traffic signal is already in place, which will enable installation to commence expeditiously once the PWC board approved this option at yesterday's meeting. It is anticipated that the light will be in place and operational prior to summer 2014.

[graciegirl]

1). Colony Blvd lies within The Villages District 7, but I heard no discussion yesterday regarding which individuals or entities designed the roads in the area surrounding Colony Plaza and The Colony Rec Center.

(Do I personally think mistakes were made when the Colony area was designed? Yes. Do I think The Villages is the most unique and amazingly designed retirement community yet developed in this country? Yes. I also understand that when projects on magnitude of scope and scale of The Villages are without precedent, an above average number of mistakes is more likely---"good judgement is based on experience and experience is based on poor judgement." I was recently at The Kennedy Space Center. Not all of our rocket launches were executed perfectly.)

2) The Morse family has already agreed to contribute $100K of the projected $250K cost of installing the traffic signal. Per Janet Tutt, 90% of the infrastructure needed for installation of the traffic signal is already in place, which will enable installation to commence expeditiously once the PWC board approved this option at yesterday's meeting. It is anticipated that the light will be in place and operational prior to summer 2014.



Well said, my very bright and compassionate friend.

[mickey100]

1). Colony Blvd lies within The Villages District 7, but I heard no discussion yesterday regarding which individuals or entities designed the roads in the area surrounding Colony Plaza and The Colony Rec Center.

(Do I personally think mistakes were made when the Colony area was designed? Yes. Do I think The Villages is the most unique and amazingly designed retirement community yet developed in this country? Yes. I also understand that when projects on magnitude of scope and scale of The Villages are without precedent, an above average number of mistakes is more likely---"good judgement is based on experience and experience is based on poor judgement." I was recently at The Kennedy Space Center. Not all of our rocket launches were executed perfectly.)

2) The Morse family has already agreed to contribute $100K of the projected $250K cost of installing the traffic signal. Per Janet Tutt, 90% of the infrastructure needed for installation of the traffic signal is already in place, which will enable installation to commence expeditiously once the PWC board approved this option at yesterday's meeting. It is anticipated that the light will be in place and operational prior to summer 2014.

I agree with you up to a point. The Colony Plaza did have a precedent, however - Southern Trace. In terms of automobile traffic and golf cart traffic, volumes appear similar. A simple vehicle count to determine average volumes at that plaza would have given good numbers that would have resulted in a far different outcome at Colony. I suspect that either the Town or County may have been responsible for reviewing site plans originally as part of the permit process, and ultimately the ball would have been in their court to determine if The Developer's traffic impact study was correct. Having been involved in review of these studies in my previous career, it has often been the case that Developers try to cut corners to save money. A good reviewer during the permit process will not allow that to happen. Seems like something fell through the cracks in this case, and we the residents are on the hook for $150,000 plus the ongoing costs of flaggers at the intersection.

[Madelaine Amee]

Having been involved in review of these studies in my previous career, it has often been the case that Developers try to cut corners to save money. Seems like something fell through the cracks in this case, and we the residents are on the hook for $150,000 plus the ongoing costs of flaggers at the intersection.

You can blame the Developer for a lot of things, but cutting corners. I think not. Look around you and tell us where he cut corners. The Villages is the yard stick by which other developments are measured.

[mickey100]

You can blame the Developer for a lot of things, but cutting corners. I think not. Look around you and tell us where he cut corners. The Villages is the yard stick by which other developments are measured.

I was referring to traffic impact studies. And the statement I made referenced traffic mitigation. The key words were "often the case". Without actually seeing said study in Colony Plaza situation, we have no idea what traffic plan the Engineering group originally offered in the study, whether the Developer approved it, and whether the Town or County did a thorough review. Ultimately, if we are assessing blame, it would have been up to the Town or County to pick up any deficiencies in the study, and make alternate recommendations. If that intersection is now part of the County road system, we should be getting money from them for the signal.

[mulligan]

Them is us !!

[graciegirl]

Here it is still January and we are kicking the developer. He IS a person. He's Megan's grandpa.

[mickey100]

I'm sure it is hard to process for some people that the Developer's Engineer's possibly made a mistake, and/or The Developer approved that. It is also hard to admit there may be cost cutting involved when designing certain aspects of the Villages. It is all so wonderful here, but using some imagination, one could think of even how much nicer it would have been had certain things been included, not excluded. For the millionth time, The Developer is not God, is not perfect, and The Villages is not perfect! The Colony intersection is just one more instance of proof. I'll never understand why some people feel so threatened by that. In any event, the residents are getting stuck with the bill. What else is new.

[Bogie Shooter]

I guess we just get tired of people blaming(or inferring blame)on the developer.........................

[mulligan]

I don't see any "corner cutting" on the part of the developer, or skulduggery on the part of the county. Perhaps only 1 or more errors in judgement on the part of the engineers. The plan is flexible, so we just go with it.

[mickey100]

I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but having worked in the permit sector in New York State for a number of years, we found numerous instances of corner cutting. That is a fact. I wouldn't expect things to be any different in Florida. Whether our Developer cuts corners to save money, is anyone's guess, since we do not have access to the permit studies and documents. No one accuses the county or town of skulduggery. If anything, they were not equipped, personnel-wise, to deal with reviews of a development of this size. It may just have been beyond their scope of expertise. Or maybe the permit process is different here in Florida, and they were not involved at all. Of course this is all conjecture. The whole point of my post, that most seem to have missed, is that it is not rocket science to determine traffic volumes and mitigation particularly when you have Southern Trace as a perfect example to draw from. In my engineering opinion, this was a mistake that should never have happened, and the residents are now getting stuck with the bill.

[Cisco Kid]

I think when someone moves from a state like Illinois that is in the crapper you just miss the bad news..
You have a echo in you head that will not go away.
I think If I am able to break the chains of this doomed state
I will suffer from Posttraumatic Stress Disorder

JMO

[mickey100]

I guess we just get tired of people blaming(or inferring blame)on the developer.........................

But what if the Developer is to blame for some of the errors? Why do some people insist and are so sure, so absolutely positive, that the Developer is blameless in everything?

I have a lot more respect for someone who will step up to the plate and admit mistakes, and take responsibility.

[Moderator]

The topic is the Colony traffic crossing problem/solution.

Let's not turn this into a general praise/bash the Developer discussion.

Thanks,

Moderator

[PaPaLarry]

I look at it as, solutions have been looked at and scrutinized, by all who are involved in authority, and the best solution has been picked. Putting blame on someone, is not going to fix the situation. With all that's been built in this lovely community, mistakes can be made. As an example, the narrow cart paths in the older section, have been improved and made larger in new section. Now with this situation, I'm sure more planning will take place for future areas near shopping plaza's etc. Lets let the authorities, fix the problem, so we all can move on, and enjoy our beautiful surroundings. Lets all be happy and enjoy our paradise, and the great people who live here

[mrdarcy]

Southern Trace does not have a very busy Regional Rec Center in the middle of the traffic congestion, but I agree there are otherwise many similarities between Southern Trace and Colony. The former being able to serve as an example for the latter.

I marvel at how often some of these big traffic and road projects can go so badly awry. I lived in Austin Texas in which an entrance ramp to a major expressway ran through a residential neighborhood. (45th St and Loop 1). It was clear traffic planners incorrectly projected the direction of population growth. In Atlanta an entire bus load of student athletes was killed when their driver careened, at highway speed, off a rare left side exit ramp that T-boned into a perpendicular street on the expressway overpass. it was determined that confusing signage and the rare left exit probably resulted in the driver mistaking the ramp in the early morning hours for the HOV lane a bit further ahead.

It takes the bad examples to highlight the challenges involved in traffic planning.