Legalizing Pot Question

[Parker]

I've been reading about states legalizing pot shops, which leads me to the question of whether or not marijuana smoke damages the lungs like tobacco does. If it does, why aren't there warnings about it?

[Dbinac]

I would imagine smoking anything is not good for your lungs. If I remember my time back in the 60s correctly the amount of pot smoked was a lot less than what most cigarette smokers consumed. I have heard cannabis does not contain the cancer causing compounds found in cigarettes. Also anyone concerned with their health would probably consume their pot in edibles such as brownies or with a vaporiser which is much healthier. I am sure many seniors could benefit from the medical uses of cannabis.

[BarryRX]

The studies that I remember looking at when I was working did not show a link between lung cancer or COPD and marijuana smoking. But the caveat was always the amount being smoked. If you're an ex cigarette smoker, you probably smoked a pack a day or more. Usually, pot smokers usually only have a few joints a week. If pot smoking increases now due to its legality, we may very well see the same links between it and lung disease and heart disease we now see with cigarettes.

[ilovetv]

Back in Ancient Times, in the 1960s, we were taught about air pollution and how pollutants inhaled into the lungs can cause severe respiratory disease and horrible death.

In 5th grade, I remember students figuring out (back when 2+2=4) that smoke--any kind of smoke--is a pollutant, and so therefore any smoke inhaled into the lungs can be deadly. It's quite elementary.

"In the 1960s, an environmental movement began to emerge that sought to stem the tide of pollutants flowing into the planet's ecosystems. Out of this movement came events like Earth Day, and legislative victories like the Clean Air Act (1970) and the Clean Water Act (1972).....

...In 1963, in an effort to reduce air pollution, the U.S. Congress passed the Clean Air Act, legislation which has been amended and strengthened in the ensuing decades."
Water and Air Pollution — History.com Articles, Video, Pictures and Facts (http://www.history.com/topics/water-and-air-pollution)

[joerocker]

I'm sure it's not good for your lungs. What smoke would be? But, from what I hear, it's the additives (what's new right?) in cigarettes that cause most of the damage. Commercial tobacco is supposedly full of all kinds of additives and enhancers. People who grow their own tobacco reportedly don't develop the problems that commercial cigarette smokers develop.

I'm more from "that generation", more a child of the 60s, where marijuana was as common as beer. It's effects being about the same.

There has been a seriously disingenuous campaign to make it out as something it isn't. I personally believe it's the alcohol and drug manufacturers who want to keep it illegal. Its legality will seriously cut into alcohol sales, so it's days may be numbered. Those corporations will fund "studies", they'll "report" all kinds of negatives about it to force the people and the states to make it illegal again. Mark my words, the smear campaigns will begin shortly. There will be news stories about all the "stoners" being created to discredit this legalization decision. Or, the Federal government will relent and remove it as a schedule 1 drug so the "big boys" can get involved and commercialize it...with artificial additives and enhancers.

[shcisamax]

I'm sure it's not good for your lungs. What smoke would be? But, from what I hear, it's the additives (what's new right?) in cigarettes that cause most of the damage. Commercial tobacco is supposedly full of all kinds of additives and enhancers. People who grow their own tobacco reportedly don't develop the problems that commercial cigarette smokers develop.

I'm more from "that generation", more a child of the 60s, where marijuana was as common as beer. It's effects being about the same.

There has been a seriously disingenuous campaign to make it out as something it isn't. I personally believe it's the alcohol and drug manufacturers who want to keep it illegal. Its legality will seriously cut into alcohol sales, so it's days may be numbered. Those corporations will fund "studies", they'll "report" all kinds of negatives about it to force the people and the states to make it illegal again. Mark my words, the smear campaigns will begin shortly. There will be news stories about all the "stoners" being created to discredit this legalization decision. Or, the Federal government will relent and remove it as a schedule 1 drug so the "big boys" can get involved and commercialize it...with artificial additives and enhancers.

Sounds about right.

[DougB]

My God, people. Didn't you ever see Reefer Madness? You'll go insane with that stuff!
:loco:

[karostay]

I've been reading about states legalizing pot shops, which leads me to the question of whether or not marijuana smoke damages the lungs like tobacco does. If it does, why aren't there warnings about it?
One wouldn't believe it's any more damaging than sitting outside at City Fire or Cody's.

[DonH57]

What was the question again?

[Skip2MySue]

The studies that I remember looking at when I was working did not show a link between lung cancer or COPD and marijuana smoking. But the caveat was always the amount being smoked. If you're an ex cigarette smoker, you probably smoked a pack a day or more. Usually, pot smokers usually only have a few joints a week. If pot smoking increases now due to its legality, we may very well see the same links between it and lung disease and heart disease we now see with cigarettes.

A few joints a week!!!!!!! No wonder you're always hanging out at Rae Rae's. :a040:
Skip 2

[rubicon]

This subject is an explosive one for some including me. Regulators have declared war on cigarette smokers, including e-cigarettes and they do not see a problem with legalizing marijuanta.

there is no logic in comparing cigarettes to alcohol or to marijuanta because each has its own sets of health and social problems

The Daily Sun carried a cartoon which spoke to this issue in its Sunday edition. Two panels show a drawing of the brain. In the top panel it reads 'Liberals this is your brain and the brain in that panel reads "Ban soda"" Ban cupcakes" Öutlaw all unhealthy snacks"

The second panel reads "This is your brain on legalized pot." Any questions?
The writing on the brain reads "Hey man who took my munchies?

States like Colorado that open themselves up to legalized recreational pot have opened up a Pandora's box. It will not stop illegal pot it will not keep the criminal element out but actually increase their insertion into this program and they will not be able to keep it away from minors nor control the amount they purchase.

and to the benefit of medical marijuanta the fact is that other alternatives are available some more effective

someone joked about reefer madness so I won't bother to explain the brain damage caused by this drug. and you can count on people with addictive behavior from all walks of life being stoned most of the day....and that's why its called dope

And the decline of America continues

[joerocker]

This subject is an explosive one for some including me. Regulators have declared war on cigarette smokers, including e-cigarettes and they do not see a problem with legalizing marijuanta.

there is no logic in comparing cigarettes to alcohol or to marijuanta because each has its own sets of health and social problems

The Daily Sun carried a cartoon which spoke to this issue in its Sunday edition. Two panels show a drawing of the brain. In the top panel it reads 'Liberals this is your brain and the brain in that panel reads "Ban soda"" Ban cupcakes" Öutlaw all unhealthy snacks"

The second panel reads "This is your brain on legalized pot." Any questions?
The writing on the brain reads "Hey man who took my munchies?

States like Colorado that open themselves up to legalized recreational pot have opened up a Pandora's box. It will not stop illegal pot it will not keep the criminal element out but actually increase their insertion into this program and they will not be able to keep it away from minors nor control the amount they purchase.

and to the benefit of medical marijuanta the fact is that other alternatives are available some more effective

someone joked about reefer madness so I won't bother to explain the brain damage caused by this drug. and you can count on people with addictive behavior from all walks of life being stoned most of the day....and that's why its called dope

And the decline of America continues

I agree with the decline statement. However, I think you're turning a molehill into a mountain here. If you've never tried it, you can't really judge it. It really is like drinking beer. It gives a nice mellow "buzz". The better argument is: If alcohol is legal, there's no reason for marijuana not to be. They both do pretty much exactly the same thing. Only people smoking marijuana don't get mean and violent. Smoke too much and you just want to sit on the couch and listen to music. Smoke the right amount and it's like drinking beers with the guys. A very pleasant experience.

This is no different than ending prohibition. People like to get a "high", they will, so why try to stop them? Studies show most/all animals will seek a "high". They eat rotting fruit for the alcohol.

Marijuana right now is so much easier to get than alcohol. Any kid can get it, easily. Actually, it's can't get any easier to get.

The placebo effect works wonders. Plus marijuana acts as a tranquilizer, that alone can help patients with chronic conditions.

No more brain damage than "your" alcohol has caused. Unless you don't agree with any form of mind altering substances.

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Without first hand experience, we can't talk on an even level. It'd be like me arguing with a mother about pregnancy or childbirth. Since I've never done it, how can I have an educated opinion?

[DonH57]

It's rumored that heavy marijuana can cause short term memory loss.

[DougB]

It's rumored that heavy marijuana can cause short term memory loss.

I think I heard that also, though I really can't remember.

[golf2140]

Ask any Heroin user what they started off with !!!!

[BarryRX]

Ask any Heroin user what they started off with !!!!

Scientists long ago abandoned the idea that marijuana causes users to try other drugs: as far back as 1999, in a report commissioned by Congress to look at the possible dangers of medical marijuana, the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences wrote:

Patterns in progression of drug use from adolescence to adulthood are strikingly regular. Because it is the most widely used illicit drug, marijuana is predictably the first illicit drug most people encounter. Not surprisingly, most users of other illicit drugs have used marijuana first. In fact, most drug users begin with alcohol and nicotine before marijuana — usually before they are of legal age.
In the sense that marijuana use typically precedes rather than follows initiation of other illicit drug use, it is indeed a “gateway” drug. But because underage smoking and alcohol use typically precede marijuana use, marijuana is not the most common, and is rarely the first, “gateway” to illicit drug use. There is no conclusive evidence that the drug effects of marijuana are causally linked to the subsequent abuse of other illicit drugs.
Since then, numerous other studies have failed to support the gateway idea. Every year, the federal government funds two huge surveys on drug use in the population. Over and over they find that the number of people who try marijuana dwarfs that for cocaine or heroin. For example, in 2009, 2.3 million people reported trying pot — compared with 617,000 who tried cocaine and 180,000 who tried heroin. It's just a false argument. To put it another way, all Hell's Angels rode bicycles when they were kids. Very few kids who rode bicycles became Hell's Angels.

[joerocker]

It's rumored that heavy marijuana can cause short term memory loss.

And heavy alcohol use causes? Heavy xanax use causes? Heavy doing of anything is hazardous to your well being. Aging causes short term memory loss.

Those against it always imply that everyone who uses it becomes hooked and wants nothing but marijuana 24 hours a day. It's not like that...really. It's something to use responsibly like responsible adults drink alcohol. I said before, marijuana is easier for a child to get than alcohol. Ask your grandchildren. It's already everywhere. Availablilty for children won't change.

Why do you think it's so abundant? It makes people feel good. What's wrong with that? I'll bet a large percentage of us, more the newer arrivals as they're younger, would buy some in Colorado or Washington. I would. Why not? It's legal. No different than living in a dry county and driving next door for your beer.

If you're ever in CO or WA, get some, try it, and I'll bet you'll be for it too. It's no more evil than beer.

[NoMoSno]

Ask any Heroin user what they started off with !!!!

alcohol...

[joerocker]

Ask any Heroin user what they started off with !!!!

Caffeine. Most used drug. Found in coffee, tea, soda, etc) You're kidding yourself if you drink caffeinated coffee or tea and deny you're a "drug user". Wars were fought over the caffeine found in tea and coffee.

[DonH57]

Did you know heavy marijuana use may cause short term memory loss?

[Jaggy]

I think it is a weed, so I would grow it once it becomes legal. I am fantastic at growing weeds in my garden. !!! The big boys with their additives can bite me.

[Polar Bear]

...You're kidding yourself if you drink caffeinated coffee or tea and deny you're a "drug user"...

IMHO, you're kidding yourself if you think caffeine is comparable to use of the illegal drugs mentioned in this thread.

[joerocker]

IMHO, you're kidding yourself if you think caffeine is comparable to use of the illegal drugs mentioned in this thread.

It's comparable to beer.

I didn't compare anything. I simply stated that caffeine is a drug. It's a stimulant. How many people do you know who can't/won't do anything without their morning coffee? They're addicted to caffeine. There are people who lose their mind without a cigarette. They are addicted. I've yet to hear anything of people "addicted" to marijuana.

[DonH57]

The only thing I believe marijuana use is a gateway to is the kitchen cabinets or refrigerator afterward.

[gustavo]

Ask any Heroin user what they started off with !!!!

Either mother's milk, or infant formula.

[renielarson]

---

[renielarson]

Ask any Heroin user what they started off with !!!!

Either mother's milk, of infant formula.

Great response! Love it!

[luvmagic2]

Legalized marijuana is not just for smoking but it is also in cakes, cookies, candies and drinks.

[DougB]

Some of these posts are real buzz killers.

[Polar Bear]

...I didn't compare anything. I simply stated that caffeine is a drug.

You post what you did in a thread discussing pot and other drugs...but there's no comparison intended. Okay. Whatever you say.

[Parker]

I already have short term memory loss. It can only help.

[Microcodeboy]

Wait... What was the question?

[Golfingnut]

It's comparable to beer.

I didn't compare anything. I simply stated that caffeine is a drug. It's a stimulant. How many people do you know who can't/won't do anything without their morning coffee? They're addicted to caffeine. There are people who lose their mind without a cigarette. They are addicted. I've yet to hear anything of people "addicted" to marijuana.

We humans need to have an outlet, make pot available and many will NOT move on to hard drugs like crack and vodka. It amazes me how some can articulate so well for the non factual and superstitious side of a debate. I choose beer because it is legal. I am however educated enough to know that it is more harmful than pot. :beer3:

[senior citizen]

........

[BarryRX]

Mass. man appeals conviction in boy’s boat death - Bennington Banner (http://www.benningtonbanner.com/region/ci_24947138/mass-man-appeals-conviction-boy-rsquo-s-boat)

5 beers plus 3 marijuana cigarettes = homicide by vessel conviction in death of 10 year old boy in kayak

The same result as being impaired by alcohol. From what I've seen from my time on the water, alcohol is a much larger problem with boat operators. On our roads, 30,000 people die each year and more than 10,000 of those deaths are alcohol related according to the NIH. DRIVING IMPAIRED IS WRONG AND DANGEROUS NO MATTER WHAT SUBSTANCE YOU USE!

[tucson]

Read - DrugFacts: Marijuana | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) (http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana)

[senior citizen]

.........

[nitehawk]

How many time have you been cut-off by someone trying to make it in time for happy hour

[Golfingnut]

Mass. man appeals conviction in boy’s boat death - Bennington Banner (http://www.benningtonbanner.com/region/ci_24947138/mass-man-appeals-conviction-boy-rsquo-s-boat)

5 beers plus 3 marijuana cigarettes = homicide by vessel conviction in death of 10 year old boy in kayak

8 marihuana cigarettes = sharing a box of cookies. :pepper2:

[NotGolfer]

Hasn't marajawana been noted at the "gate-way" drug?? I personally have never even experimented with it nor had a desire...ever! I guess I miss the reason on exactly "why" folks think they "need" this!!

There was a 'cartoon' in yesterday's (Sunday) Sun that depicts my thoughts completely on the notion of legalizing it.

[Golfingnut]

Hasn't marajawana been noted at the "gate-way" drug?? I personally have never even experimented with it nor had a desire...ever! I guess I miss the reason on exactly "why" folks think they "need" this!!

There was a 'cartoon' in yesterday's (Sunday) Sun that depicts my thoughts completely on the notion of legalizing it.

To the contrary, it has been proven to be less likely to cause hard drug experimentation than alcohol. Most against marihuana are those with no experience with it and are talking from what they heard from their neighbors father that is 76 years old and owns a string of liqueur stores. THC (the chemical that gives one the buss), is no more a dangerous drug than, caffeine and far less dangerous to society than alcohol, nicotine and Xanax.

[DonH57]

To the contrary, it has been proven to be less likely to cause hard drug experimentation than alcohol. Most against marihuana are those with no experience with it and are talking from what they heard from their neighbors father that is 76 years old and owns a string of liqueur stores. THC (the chemical that gives one the buss), is no more a dangerous drug than, caffeine and far less dangerous to society than alcohol, nicotine and Xanax.

I agree. Unfortunately there are a lot of people believe everything they are told and never bother to research it for themselves and continue to spread unproven information. I hope research into the medical benefits of marijuana only grows and is not stopped by closed minds. I for one want cancer stopped. I personally don't care if the herb does it.

[joerocker]

Read - DrugFacts: Marijuana | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) (http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana)

Typical "anti" propaganda. All about kids using it. Kids use it now and it's illegal, so what will change if it becomes legal for adults? It will still be illegal for children. It was full of "studies show" with nothing cited.

Hasn't marajawana been noted at the "gate-way" drug?? I personally have never even experimented with it nor had a desire...ever! I guess I miss the reason on exactly "why" folks think they "need" this!!

There was a 'cartoon' in yesterday's (Sunday) Sun that depicts my thoughts completely on the notion of legalizing it.

Noted by whom as a gateway drug? Those against it? Those with a financial interest against it? Cigarettes, caffeine, alcohol, those are the true "gateway drugs". Marijuana use comes after those have already been used. Drug use/abuse moves in series, from the easiest to acquire to the harder. You won't find a pot smoker who never had coffee/tea/soda. You'll rarely find one who never tried a cigarette. You'll also rarely find one who never tried alcohol. You can say "there's no comparison", but there is. They're all mind altering drugs. The difference is degree. If you can't compare marijuana to them, you can't compare marijuana to crack or heroin either. It's like beer or wine, that's the closest comparison. Without the loss of "control" you get from alcohol. You won't do something stupid, you won't fall down, you won't drive off the road, after consuming too much.

What "stories"do you hear about pot smokers? They're mellow and like to eat after smoking. Maybe too much makes them lazy. That's it. What stories do you hear about drinkers? Mean, nasty, violent, crazy, dangerous? Marijuana is beer/wine without the bad side effects.

Marijuana isn't like heroin, hard alcohol, or any of the other "hard drugs". It's effects are like having a bit of beer or wine. You don't stumble around, you don't go into a stupor, you don't become mean or violent. You have an enjoyable "buzz" that is good for socializing.

Unless you've tried it, you can't have an opinion. It's not so bad, that's why the people of more and more states are demanding access to it. Just like alcohol prohibition ended because the people wanted their "buzz", marijuana prohibition will end too. Unless the big corporations can put out enough negative propaganda about it.

Of course using it too much can be a problem, but too much of anything is a problem. Like everything else, willpower and moderation are the key. Most adults can enjoy it without negative repercussions. The same people who can enjoy alcohol without it becoming a problem.

Do you drink beer or wine? Do you enjoy it? Then you'd also like marijuana. You really should try something before you post negative comments about it. One puff won't make you addicted just as one drink won't make you an alcoholic.

Are you an alcoholic who can't control themselves? Then you should stay away from marijuana too.

Folks don't "need" it, just as folks don't "need" their beer and wine. Just as you don't "need" a steak or lobster. It's something folks want. Because, like a good meal, or a good beer or wine, it makes them feel better.

Don't believe the hype that marijuana is some extremely potent mind destroying drug. The pharmacists and distilleries have a monopoly on that. And they want to keep it that way.

[Villages PL]

What was the question again?

Darned if I know......something about brain cells, man.

[Villages PL]

"Hey man who took my munchies?

That question serves to remind me of another question: Wouldn't the snack food industry take the side of legalizing pot? And wouln't they be inclined to say that smoking pot is okay as long as you practice moderation?


And the decline of America continues

:agree:

[Villages PL]

I agree with the decline statement. However, I think you're turning a molehill into a mountain here. If you've never tried it, you can't really judge it. It really is like drinking beer. It gives a nice mellow "buzz". The better argument is: If alcohol is legal, there's no reason for marijuana not to be. They both do pretty much exactly the same thing. Only people smoking marijuana don't get mean and violent. Smoke too much and you just want to sit on the couch and listen to music. Smoke the right amount and it's like drinking beers with the guys. A very pleasant experience.

This is no different than ending prohibition. People like to get a "high", they will, so why try to stop them? Studies show most/all animals will seek a "high". They eat rotting fruit for the alcohol.

Marijuana right now is so much easier to get than alcohol. Any kid can get it, easily. Actually, it's can't get any easier to get.

The placebo effect works wonders. Plus marijuana acts as a tranquilizer, that alone can help patients with chronic conditions.

No more brain damage than "your" alcohol has caused. Unless you don't agree with any form of mind altering substances.

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Without first hand experience, we can't talk on an even level. It'd be like me arguing with a mother about pregnancy or childbirth. Since I've never done it, how can I have an educated opinion?

Try the following search: Marijuana and brain damage.

[Jaggy]

science has now shown is that marijuana and cannabinoids are effective anti-aging agents which means that they are effective in minimizing the onset and the severity of age-related illnesses which include cognitive dysfunction things like Alzheimers, cardiovascular disease be it heart attacks, strokes, or clogged arteries
If you think I am wrong google it.. I found my quote by googling marijuana & the elderly.

[rubicon]

Hollywood Cheech and Chong and all that followed have made light of marijuana for so long that the light handed comments always follow its mention.



]"Far from benign Pot damages the heart, lungs, increases the incidence of anxiety, depression and schizophrenia, and can trigger acute psychotic episodes. "

"Many adults appear to be able to use marijuana with relatively little harm but the same cannot be said of adolescents who are twice as likely to become addicted as adults" Mitchell S. Rosenthal, Child Psychiatrist and founder of Phoenix House.

States like Colorado that legalize marijuana normalize it and socialize it. We have an epidemic of teenagers binge drinking so what do you believe is going to happen in Colorado and the adjoining states? And if marijuana is socially acceptable why isn't ..................................................

But well kids will be kids

[joerocker]

Hollywood Cheech and Chong and all that followed have made light of marijuana for so long that the light handed comments always follow its mention.



]"Far from benign Pot damages the heart, lungs, increases the incidence of anxiety, depression and schizophrenia, and can trigger acute psychotic episodes. "

"Many adults appear to be able to use marijuana with relatively little harm but the same cannot be said of adolescents who are twice as likely to become addicted as adults" Mitchell S. Rosenthal, Child Psychiatrist and founder of Phoenix House.

States like Colorado that legalize marijuana normalize it and socialize it. We have an epidemic of teenagers binge drinking so what do you believe is going to happen in Colorado and the adjoining states? And if marijuana is socially acceptable why isn't ..................................................

But well kids will be kids

So you're FOR the legalization for ADULTS? Since it does no harm to them.

Which is exactly what these states are doing. Nobody is saying allow kids to have it. It'll be the SAME as it is now for alcohol. Over 21. It's still illegal for kids.

Why does everyone think kids will suddenly be getting inundated with marijuana? If they want it, they can get it now. Cigarettes are legal for adults and not kids, not every child smokes. Alcohol is available for adults, not every kid drinks. This will be the same. There will be some increase in use because that's what happens when something formerly forbidden is legalized. But there won't be an explosion of stoned teens. Because, as I've said before, if a kid wants it, he can get it. Right now, here in Florida, I'm sure in the villages charter school. It's already everywhere. Because people like it.

We have an epidemic of kids binge drinking, and you blame marijuana? Huh? They're drinking alcohol. A separate entity, with it's own laws. That's the thing, there isn't anything really bad to say about marijuana, so people against it, make up stuff about other things and try to tie it to marijuana. Binge drinking alcohol has nothing to do with marijuana.

I know what will happen in CO and WA, "pot tourism". I'm going, soon. Going to meet friends from other states. Beats having to go to Jamaica. This is no different than tourists going to Las Vegas to gamble before gambling was "legalized" in practically every state. Maybe the Native Americans can add "pot shops" to their casinos.

Go to CO yourself. LEGALLY see what all the clamor for legalization is all about. Try it, you'll like it. In moderation of course. Don't want you coming back like Tommy Chong.

[John_W]

I have just one comment to make. If people want to get wasted legally they drink and some get drunk. Some get mean drunk and then take it out on someone else. I've never heard of anyone getting mean high. Probably the biggest opponent of legalization are the bar owners and liquor companies.

[billethkid]

gee as good as it is for all to use I keep wondering why it has taken at least the last 78 years that I know of to come to pass?

Why did it not happen long, long ag, LONG ago. Perhaps it is a barometer of the changing values of the modern day.

And now all of a sudden too, all the positions of how much better it is than some other "stuff". If true why did it take over 78 years, that I knoe of, to come to pass?

How does it compare to electronic cigarettes that are now being subjected to a wave of restrictions? Pot vs steam?

I forget who it was that used to say, there is a lot more to the story (we won't hear)?

[joerocker]

I have just one comment to make. If people want to get wasted legally they drink and some get drunk. Some get mean drunk and then take it out on someone else. I've never heard of anyone getting mean high. Probably the biggest opponent of legalization are the bar owners and liquor companies.

But marijuana is more like beer...you don't have to get wasted. A nice pleasant buzz is enough. Why is it always assumed that everyone is going to smoke to excess? Do most people drink to excess? People lose less personal control when smoking than with alcohol. The misinformation about it is staggering.

And yes, it's alcohol that makes you lose your mind and do stupid, STUPID things. You never hear of anything bad that's being done by someone smoking marijuana. It makes you mellow, tolerant, and happy.

gee as good as it is for all to use I keep wondering why it has taken at least the last 78 years that I know of to come to pass?

Why did it not happen long, long ag, LONG ago. Perhaps it is a barometer of the changing values of the modern day.

And now all of a sudden too, all the positions of how much better it is than some other "stuff". If true why did it take over 78 years, that I knoe of, to come to pass?

How does it compare to electronic cigarettes that are now being subjected to a wave of restrictions? Pot vs steam?

I forget who it was that used to say, there is a lot more to the story (we won't hear)?

There is a lot more to the story, but it's political. So we can't talk about it. Suffice to say that certain corporations want to keep it illegal. Legalization is a grassroots effort.

[Golfingnut]

When I go to a party, I have to maintain self control to the point that if I have a third beer I will regret it in the morning. I doubt if I ever reach .08 or even .05 % blood alcohol! but on the rare occasion I do have the extra round, I always feel bad the next day even if I only have three beers over a three hour party.

I wonder, does smoking a small amount cause the same morning after result.

[senior citizen]

.............

[Golfingnut]

There was a Swedish study done with regard to all of the American military deserters who ended up in Stockholm back in the 1960's. Within the past decade (while they were in their late 50's and early 60's) they were coming down with early onset Alzheimer's Disease and Dementia.....dying quickly. The physicians said it was due to their use of Hashish when they arrived in Sweden. I'm not a drug expert but Hashish is, I believe, a more potent type of marijuana??


I have this as firsthand information from the Swedish family of one of these deceased men. The clinic in Stockholm did extensive research on the hashish usage leading to the dementia. The doctors began seeing more and more of this certain generation coming in with the severe symptoms of dementia......dying soon afterward......


It's very sad to see someone fading away with dementia.

Aaaakkkk!!

Modern study:

Marijuana cannabinoids slow brain degradation and aging, reverse dementia: here's how (http://www.naturalnews.com/040456_marijuana_cannabinoids_dementia.html#)

[bobofmanawa]

Scientists long ago abandoned the idea that marijuana causes users to try other drugs: as far back as 1999, in a report commissioned by Congress to look at the possible dangers of medical marijuana, the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences wrote:

Patterns in progression of drug use from adolescence to adulthood are strikingly regular. Because it is the most widely used illicit drug, marijuana is predictably the first illicit drug most people encounter. Not surprisingly, most users of other illicit drugs have used marijuana first. In fact, most drug users begin with alcohol and nicotine before marijuana — usually before they are of legal age.
In the sense that marijuana use typically precedes rather than follows initiation of other illicit drug use, it is indeed a “gateway” drug. But because underage smoking and alcohol use typically precede marijuana use, marijuana is not the most common, and is rarely the first, “gateway” to illicit drug use. There is no conclusive evidence that the drug effects of marijuana are causally linked to the subsequent abuse of other illicit drugs.
Since then, numerous other studies have failed to support the gateway idea. Every year, the federal government funds two huge surveys on drug use in the population. Over and over they find that the number of people who try marijuana dwarfs that for cocaine or heroin. For example, in 2009, 2.3 million people reported trying pot — compared with 617,000 who tried cocaine and 180,000 who tried heroin. It's just a false argument. To put it another way, all Hell's Angels rode bicycles when they were kids. Very few kids who rode bicycles became Hell's Angels.
Right on.

[Golfingnut]

This site below has listings of numerous studies of specific findings for many illnesses we seniors struggle with every day. Simply go to the site, find your medical issue and review the studies and findings.

NORML.org - Working to Reform Marijuana Laws (http://norml.org/component/zoo/category/recent-research-on-medical-marijuana)

Our friends here that give opinions on marijuana are closer to: I heard from my boss that his daughters best friend read that pot will make you speak in a foreign language. I have to feel they mean well, but are poorly informed on the true facts about this natural growing herb.

Don't be gullible, do your own research so you will be able to talk about this issue with facts. The web site above is considered honest and reliable.

[Parker]

Well I don't know much about the effects of marijuana, but I do know that it STINKS. P U!

[senior citizen]

..................
　

[Golfingnut]

Like I said, well meaning folks that KNOW what they are taking about voice their honest opinions. Problem is what they KNOW is based on what they HEAR that fits what they want to hear and not a complete research of all fact based information available.

[joerocker]

When I go to a party, I have to maintain self control to the point that if I have a third beer I will regret it in the morning. I doubt if I ever reach .08 or even .05 % blood alcohol! but on the rare occasion I do have the extra round, I always feel bad the next day even if I only have three beers over a three hour party.

I wonder, does smoking a small amount cause the same morning after result.

No, there is no "hangover". You made a key point to this whole thing. Self control. Most against it assume the user has none. They've been brainwashed by "Reefer Madness" which couldn't be farther from the truth.

There was a Swedish study done with regard to all of the American military deserters who ended up in Stockholm back in the 1960's. Within the past decade (while they were in their late 50's and early 60's) they were coming down with early onset Alzheimer's Disease and Dementia.....dying quickly. The physicians said it was due to their use of Hashish when they arrived in Sweden. I'm not a drug expert but Hashish is, I believe, a more potent type of marijuana??


I have this as firsthand information from the Swedish family of one of these deceased men. The clinic in Stockholm did extensive research on the hashish usage leading to the dementia. The doctors began seeing more and more of this certain generation coming in with the severe symptoms of dementia......dying soon afterward......


It's very sad to see someone fading away with dementia.

Please link to the study.

"Hearing something from a Swedish family" is NOT "first hand information", it's hearsay, not admissible in court or evidence of anything.

I find it hard to believe. First that they kept track of "all the American deserters" for 50 years along with their marijuana smoking habits. Second, that only the "American deserters" were coming down with early Alzheimers from smoking. If true, ALL Swedes who smoked it should have had the same affliction.

Most of the "information" we hear is just plain false.

I think we're all going to have to take a field trip to Colorado. Educational, for research (tax deductible?). We'll get first hand experience. Then we can decide on our own. Who's with me?

[PennBF]

How many actually know the statistics of users moving from pot to harder drugs? How many have actually treated Drug and Alcholol abusers and understand the sequence of moving from light drugs (pot) to hard drugs. How many actually know the statistics of person(s) under 18 moving on and the long term effects on their brain and reproduction(s)? How many have actually worked in a "Rehab" and understand the history of drug users (e.g. pot)? How many have actually studied the differences between Alcholol and Pot and the different impacts on the body, brain, etc.?
Moving on..Net: Statiscially between 15 and 20% of pot users move on to the harder drugs, although all drugs are actually "hard". The cost of all of this on society is tremendous. Who do you think is paying for the "Rehabs"? The good news is that it creates employment for the thousands of Drug Psychologists and Counselors. The good news is that as it is made "legal" there will be more opportunities for these Psychologists, et al. :wave:

[billethkid]

Statiscially between 15 and 20% of pot users move on to the harder drugs, although all drugs are actually "hard". The cost of all of this on society is tremendous. Who do you think is paying for the "Rehabs"? The good news is that it creates employment for the thousands of Drug Psychologists and Counselors. The good news is that as it is made "legal" there will be more opportunities for these Psychologists, et al. :wave:

Accepting the above statistic then we can certainly expect a significant increase in hard drug useage.

And now if we had a statistic of the number of people who use alcohol (any and all levels) and how many move on to be alcoholics we might have something to compare.

It would also be helpful to know how many drug users participate in some kind of rehab. And how many alcoholics participate in an AA type rehab.

Again a more meaningful comparison.

Without hard numbers like the above all else is opinion/belief driven, regardless the source.

The other issue that has not been addressed is there will be a definite increase in the number of school age (ALL levels) children who will begin trying/using drugs......because it is now legal (wherever it is).

There is absolutely no doubt the legalization will incrementally add to the problems of abuse at all ages via a new user group that did not exist before legalization.

Hence a bigger problem than exists today with significant cost implications for the future....to just heap on the pile already headed our way. Cost as measured in dollars as well as all the humanity type losses that will occur as well.

True marketing states find a need and fill it. What is the need for pot the government is responding to satisfy? And per my previous post why now and not 10, 20 ,30 ,50, 70 years ago?

Short answer: Greed and politics.

[joerocker]

Accepting the above statistic then we can certainly expect a significant increase in hard drug useage.

And now if we had a statistic of the number of people who use alcohol (any and all levels) and how many move on to be alcoholics we might have something to compare.

It would also be helpful to know how many drug users participate in some kind of rehab. And how many alcoholics participate in an AA type rehab.

Again a more meaningful comparison.

Without hard numbers like the above all else is opinion/belief driven, regardless the source.

The other issue that has not been addressed is there will be a definite increase in the number of school age (ALL levels) children who will begin trying/using drugs......because it is now legal (wherever it is).

There is absolutely no doubt the legalization will incrementally add to the problems of abuse at all ages via a new user group that did not exist before legalization.

Hence a bigger problem than exists today with significant cost implications for the future....to just heap on the pile already headed our way. Cost as measured in dollars as well as all the humanity type losses that will occur as well.

True marketing states find a need and fill it. What is the need for pot the government is responding to satisfy? And per my previous post why now and not 10, 20 ,30 ,50, 70 years ago?

Short answer: Greed and politics.

Everything written there was a guess. A forecast. What you think will happen.

How about numbers on alcohol use leading to marijuana use. Bet it's higher than the other way around.

What you're also saying is that government has to control/protect the population from themselves. We are incapable of handling our own lives and making our own choices. Is that what you're saying? You need others to lord over you, determine what you can and can't have? For your own good, because you're incapable of making wise, self beneficial, decisions, and if given any chance, will stray from what is good for you and society? That's what prohibition really is. "You're not capable of self control therefore you can't have it". NYC outlawed, prohibits, sodas larger than 16oz. Why? Because NYC has deemed that you are not capable of limiting your soda intake ans therefore must be limited and forbidden a serving larger than 16oz.

You don't "punish" everyone for the few who can't control themselves.

Why does a "user" have to go to rehab? An ABUSER yes, a user no.

Again, always bringing up the children. It's STILL illegal for children. It's been illegal for children. It will stay illegal for children. Children can already get all they want. Nothing changes for children.

[elizabeth52]

How many actually know the statistics of users moving from pot to harder drugs? How many have actually treated Drug and Alcholol abusers and understand the sequence of moving from light drugs (pot) to hard drugs. How many actually know the statistics of person(s) under 18 moving on and the long term effects on their brain and reproduction(s)? How many have actually worked in a "Rehab" and understand the history of drug users (e.g. pot)? How many have actually studied the differences between Alcholol and Pot and the different impacts on the body, brain, etc.?
Moving on..Net: Statiscially between 15 and 20% of pot users move on to the harder drugs, although all drugs are actually "hard". The cost of all of this on society is tremendous. Who do you think is paying for the "Rehabs"? The good news is that it creates employment for the thousands of Drug Psychologists and Counselors. The good news is that as it is made "legal" there will be more opportunities for these Psychologists, et iave:


I worked in this field for years. Someone posted an article by Mitch Rosenthal...I sat in many meetings with Mitch. You can quote any number of studies or statistics to support an argument on either side. I have worked with this population. I have sat with individuals who begin their story the same way...I started with a couple of joints. I have seen the ravages of human beings of all ages who suffer the effects of long term subtance use or the consequences of short term impairment due to substance use. This includes grade school children to senior citizens.

To the arguement that alcohol is legal so why not marijuana I say SO WHAT!! let the argument for or against marijuana stand on its own. I have read the research, I have seen the damage and I believe that our society is better off not legalizing marijuana. Here is the current research from the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA).


DrugFacts: Marijuana | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) (http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana)

[Golfingnut]

I worked in this field for years. Someone posted an article by Mitch Rosenthal...I sat in many meetings with Mitch. You can quote any number of studies or statistics to support an argument on either side. I have worked with this population. I have sat with individuals who begin their story the same way...I started with a couple of joints. I have seen the ravages of human beings of all ages who suffer the effects of long term subtance use or the consequences of short term impairment due to substance use. This includes grade school children to senior citizens.

To the arguement that alcohol is legal so why not marijuana I say SO WHAT!! let the argument for or against marijuana stand on its own. I have read the research, I have seen the damage and I believe that our society is better off not legalizing marijuana. Here is the current research from the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA).


DrugFacts: Marijuana | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) (http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana)

The key issue missed is that we're not talking about alcoholics or drug addicts. They are the same sad lot.
We are talking about two beers or one joint. See the difference?

A true abuser will sniff glue if that is all that is available.
Point is: A JOINT IS A BETTER SAFER CHOICE THAN ALCOHOL FOR ALL THE REST.

[elizabeth52]

[: A JOINT IS A BETTER SAFER CHOICE THAN ALCOHOL FOR ALL THE REST.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but this is where I respectfully disagree. Both alter brain chemistry. Both cause impairment. Pick your poison.

[Golfingnut]

[: A JOINT IS A BETTER SAFER CHOICE THAN ALCOHOL FOR ALL THE REST.

Sorry, but this is where I respectfully disagree. Both alter brain chemistry. Both cause impairment. Pick your poison.[/QUOTE]

OK. You may be right and they may be very close, but when you take away the drug that causes violent tendacies you are left with pot. Yes they are both drugs, but I see marijuana as a much safer choice.

[rubicon]

So you're FOR the legalization for ADULTS? Since it does no harm to them.

Which is exactly what these states are doing. Nobody is saying allow kids to have it. It'll be the SAME as it is now for alcohol. Over 21. It's still illegal for kids.

Why does everyone think kids will suddenly be getting inundated with marijuana? If they want it, they can get it now. Cigarettes are legal for adults and not kids, not every child smokes. Alcohol is available for adults, not every kid drinks. This will be the same. There will be some increase in use because that's what happens when something formerly forbidden is legalized. But there won't be an explosion of stoned teens. Because, as I've said before, if a kid wants it, he can get it. Right now, here in Florida, I'm sure in the villages charter school. It's already everywhere. Because people like it.

We have an epidemic of kids binge drinking, and you blame marijuana? Huh? They're drinking alcohol. A separate entity, with it's own laws. That's the thing, there isn't anything really bad to say about marijuana, so people against it, make up stuff about other things and try to tie it to marijuana. Binge drinking alcohol has nothing to do with marijuana.

I know what will happen in CO and WA, "pot tourism". I'm going, soon. Going to meet friends from other states. Beats having to go to Jamaica. This is no different than tourists going to Las Vegas to gamble before gambling was "legalized" in practically every state. Maybe the Native Americans can add "pot shops" to their casinos.

Go to CO yourself. LEGALLY see what all the clamor for legalization is all about. Try it, you'll like it. In moderation of course. Don't want you coming back like Tommy Chong.

joerocker: I have not made such a claim. I believe marijuana ought to continue to be against the law. what I said is by socializing it we normalize it which sends a signal to kids that's its cool.

People drink for different reason. I like (one) glass of wine with my meal. However people who light up marijuana do so for one reason only and that is to get high
If marijuana fits so well then why is it not included in the description for a healthy lifestyle? Alcohol limited in nature is said to be healthy

[joerocker]

[: A JOINT IS A BETTER SAFER CHOICE THAN ALCOHOL FOR ALL THE REST.

Sorry, but this is where I respectfully disagree. Both alter brain chemistry. Both cause impairment. Pick your poison.

Exactly...LET me pick my "poison". Why should someone else dictate which I'm "allowed" to have? I'm a free man...am I not? Then why am I not free to choose?

Yes, they both make you high. They both "impair". That's the reason people like it. Why not let them have what they want. Why do you think they'll ALL abuse it?

joerocker: I have not made such a claim. I believe marijuana ought to continue to be against the law. what I said is by socializing it we normalize it which sends a signal to kids that's its cool.

People drink for different reason. I like (one) glass of wine with my meal. However people who light up marijuana do so for one reason only and that is to get high
If marijuana fits so well then why is it not included in the description for a healthy lifestyle? Alcohol limited in nature is said to be healthy

By calling for continued illicitly, you are de facto saying that people cannot control themselves and therefore it is to be taken away, made not available. Banned.

What's wrong with "normalizing" it? Like beer and wine, ADULTS consume it, you can too when you're old enough. Just like we have now with alcohol.

So, you don't like the "buzz" from 2 or 3 glasses of wine, then it's not for you. Leave it at that. Let others decide if it is for them. Are you their master? You have domain over them? You should judge them? You should control them? That's what "I believe marijuana ought to continue to be against the law." implies. I'd like to be my own master, make my own decisions about what I can and can't have. I'm reasonable, I'm responsible.

It's not included because currently, it's illegal. Would they say "get some heroin" for PMS to women? Organizations don't usually tell their members to do something illegal. But the day is coming. If all goes well, you may someday hear "just a toke to brighten your evening out".

BTW, alcohol (literally a poison) is "said" to be beneficial. By whom? People working for the alcohol producers industry? Maybe some of the other things contained in the product, but not the ethyl alcohol itself. Like the beef producers and dairy producers pushing their product as healthy.

Unfortunately, the world is full of lies and misinformation.

[billethkid]

Everything written there was a guess. A forecast. What you think will happen.

How about numbers on alcohol use leading to marijuana use. Bet it's higher than the other way around.

What you're also saying is that government has to control/protect the population from themselves. We are incapable of handling our own lives and making our own choices. Is that what you're saying? NO! You need others to lord over you, determine what you can and can't have? For your own good, because you're incapable of making wise, self beneficial, decisions, and if given any chance, will stray from what is good for you and society? That's what prohibition really is. "You're not capable of self control therefore you can't have it". NYC outlawed, prohibits, sodas larger than 16oz. Why? Because NYC has deemed that you are not capable of limiting your soda intake ans therefore must be limited and forbidden a serving larger than 16oz.

You don't "punish" everyone for the few who can't control themselves.

Why does a "user" have to go to rehab? An ABUSER yes, a user no.

Again, always bringing up the children. It's STILL illegal for children. It's been illegal for children. It will stay illegal for children. Children can already get all they want. Nothing changes for children.

How you extrapolated to what YOU think I said is a mystery to me as there was no indication of any of your conclusion(s).

Regarding the children there was no indication I thought it was legal for them. No where in my post. My statement has all to do with increased availability (among adults...increased availability) therefore more easily accessible by young folks.

I only respond with counterpoint when ANYBODY misrepresents my intentions.

[elizabeth52]

Sorry, but this is where I respectfully disagree. Both alter brain chemistry. Both cause impairment. Pick your poison.

OK. You may be right and they may be very close, but when you take away the drug that causes violent tendacies you are left with pot. Yes they are both drugs, but I see marijuana as a much safer choice.[/QUOTE]

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, if I am run down by an angry alcoholic or an mellow marijuana smoker, both whose reaction times are off because they are impaired, I am just as dead. Marijuana causes distorted perceptions, impaired coordination, difficulty with thinking and problem solving, and disrupted learning and memory. Doesn't really matter if your angry or mellow, your still impaired. While you are impaired (not addicted) you are a liability as an employee, a risk to any property owner, a danger on the road, an irresponsible caregiver, etc., etc.

[joerocker]

How you extrapolated to what YOU think I said is a mystery to me as there was no indication of any of your conclusion(s).

Regarding the children there was no indication I thought it was legal for them. No where in my post. My statement has all to do with increased availability (among adults...increased availability) therefore more easily accessible by young folks.

I only respond with counterpoint when ANYBODY misrepresents my intentions.

Then tell me what exactly keeping something banned means to you. It's not individual freedom. It's dictating what we can and can't have. If something is illegal, it's because you (the collective "you") don't trust me with it.

Why do you make the jump that just because adults can have it...children will have increased availability? There's already as much available to children as they want. It's MORE available to children than alcohol is. Ask your grandkids if they can get it, which is easier for them to get. I know what the answer will be.

I know what your intentions are, to deny others something they desire. You use the reasoning that "it's to protect the children". My intention is to allow adults to "pick their poison" and not deny something they'd like to have over a false assumption that kids will become walking zombies all hopped up on marijuana.

I don't think we're getting through to each other.

[joerocker]

OK. You may be right and they may be very close, but when you take away the drug that causes violent tendacies you are left with pot. Yes they are both drugs, but I see marijuana as a much safer choice.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, if I am run down by an angry alcoholic or an mellow marijuana smoker, both whose reaction times are off because they are impaired, I am just as dead. Marijuana causes distorted perceptions, impaired coordination, difficulty with thinking and problem solving, and disrupted learning and memory. Doesn't really matter if your angry or mellow, your still impaired. While you are impaired (not addicted) you are a liability as an employee, a risk to any property owner, a danger on the road, an irresponsible caregiver, etc., etc.

Who said they should drive while high? Did anyone? Did anyone here say anything condoning driving while high? Don't do it. Just like beer and wine, if you have too much, don't drive. Remember, people smoking marijuana DON'T do the stupid things people who drink do. Again an argument out of the blue, taken out of context. You shouldn't drive under medication, under alcohol, or high.

You want to talk about impaired drivers, our biggest danger here is the elderly who shouldn't be behind the wheel.

[memason]

Joe..... are you high???

[rubicon]

I have just one comment to make. If people want to get wasted legally they drink and some get drunk. Some get mean drunk and then take it out on someone else. I've never heard of anyone getting mean high. Probably the biggest opponent of legalization are the bar owners and liquor companies.

Well there are mean drunks and then their are pot smokers chasing butterflies in the middle of a super highway.

Bar owners hate marijuana but drug dealers love pot smokers and will unlike bar owners drum up business in whatever way they can. If you believe legal pot will cut out the criminal element then let me tell you about a bridge I own in Brooklyn

[rubicon]

I worked in this field for years. Someone posted an article by Mitch Rosenthal...I sat in many meetings with Mitch. You can quote any number of studies or statistics to support an argument on either side. I have worked with this population. I have sat with individuals who begin their story the same way...I started with a couple of joints. I have seen the ravages of human beings of all ages who suffer the effects of long term subtance use or the consequences of short term impairment due to substance use. This includes grade school children to senior citizens.

To the arguement that alcohol is legal so why not marijuana I say SO WHAT!! let the argument for or against marijuana stand on its own. I have read the research, I have seen the damage and I believe that our society is better off not legalizing marijuana. Here is the current research from the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA).


DrugFacts: Marijuana | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) (http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana)

Elizabeth 52; I quoted Rosenthal. I also served on a board involved with the rehab of kids. I attended rehab programs and was brought to tears.

Some wrote that we are not talking about heavy users. However the point made by others and me is that by legalizing it you socialize and by socializing it you normalize it and by normalizing it you give a clear signal to kids that it is not a problem. I mean isn't that why kids smoke because their parents smoked and if they smoked it must not be a problem.

I also said that a comparison to cigarettes and alcohol to pot was not a basis for making an argument for a number of reasons

And we have some here accusing people of confirmation bias and brain washing. So I wonder why medical and psychological warnings by reputable experts is ignored and trump by the coolness of Cheech and Chong?

Watch what you teach your kids

[billethkid]

Then tell me what exactly keeping something banned means to you. It's not individual freedom. It's dictating what we can and can't have. If something is illegal, it's because you (the collective "you") don't trust me with it.

Why do you make the jump that just because adults can have it...children will have increased availability? There's already as much available to children as they want. It's MORE available to children than alcohol is. Ask your grandkids if they can get it, which is easier for them to get. I know what the answer will be.

I know what your intentions are, to deny others something they desire. Absolutely incorrect assertion! You use the reasoning that "it's to protect the children". I did not use the reasoning you state!! My intention is to allow adults to "pick their poison" and not deny something they'd like to have over a false assumption not my assumption!! that kids will become walking zombies all hopped up on marijuana.

I don't think we're getting through to each other. My intent is to leave it at that and quit!

I am done explaining what I did not intend or say. Have a good day!

[Golfingnut]

Joe rocker, you are 100% correct in your posts! but you will never change a closed mind. It is who's opinion it is and nothing to do with right or a truck load of facts. I don't mess with pot, but that is because of the legality of it. When a younger generation takes over the reigns the laws will change and 50 years from now it will be thought of just like prohibition. The crazy this is, of my friends and family that think of pot as being so evil, drink alcohol without any guilt. Go figure what's going on in their alcohol pickled brains.

[elizabeth52]

Elizabeth 52; I quoted Rosenthal. I also served on a board involved with the rehab of kids. I attended rehab programs and was brought to tears.

Some wrote that we are not talking about heavy users. However the point made by others and me is that by legalizing it you socialize and by socializing it you normalize it and by normalizing it you give a clear signal to kids that it is not a problem. I mean isn't that why kids smoke because their parents smoked and if they smoked it must not be a problem.

I also said that a comparison to cigarettes and alcohol to pot was not a basis for making an argument for a number of reasons

And we have some here accusing people of confirmation bias and brain washing. So I wonder why medical and psychological warnings by reputable experts is ignored and trump by the coolness of Cheech and Chong?

Watch what you teach your kids

I agree with everything you said and I believe that you understand the negative impact legalization will have on our society, along with a hefty price tag. That is why I pray that legalization does not happen.

As for ignoring warnings by reputable experts and being trumped by the coolness of Cheech and Chong I know this for sure, smoking marijuana does not make you smarter!

[billethkid]

"...but you will never change a closed mind...."

I continue to remain amused when differences of opinions or different perspectives or plain old disagreement results in some being labeled, such as a closed mind.......

[elizabeth52]

The OP asked about the effects of marijuana smoking on the lungs. According to The National Institute on Drug Addiction, marijuana smoke is an irritant to the lungs, and frequent marijuana smokers can have many of the same resspiratory problems experienced by tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. One study found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers, mainly because of respiratory illnesses.


However, as a senior I would be more concerned with the short term effect where Marijuana raises heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug. This may be due to increased heart rate as well as the effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in older individuals or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities

This is serious stuff. Stepping down now.

[joerocker]

I think legality will follow the path of gay marriage. Both beginning with just a few states eventually becoming national.

[swimdawg]

The OP asked about the effects of marijuana smoking on the lungs. According to The National Institute on Drug Addiction, marijuana smoke is an irritant to the lungs, and frequent marijuana smokers can have many of the same resspiratory problems experienced by tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. One study found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers, mainly because of respiratory illnesses.


However, as a senior I would be more concerned with the short term effect where Marijuana raises heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug. This may be due to increased heart rate as well as the effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in older individuals or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities

This is serious stuff. Stepping down now.

I like to remain "open" but I'm with you, Eliz, on this one. I turned 70 last year and I declared it "The Decade of the Fun"! (like the Chinese Year of the Cat, Rat, Dog, etc). So.....of course, I told all my friends that this is The Decade of the FUN. One of my closest friends was going out to Colorado to visit her brother. Mind you, I never even smoked a cigarette no less MJ! So I told her, "Barb....this is 'The Decade of the Fun', let's try marijuana." You can try it out there....and then we'll try it here". So....her brother, who was ill, had a "brownie". She enjoyed a bit of the brownie.....til her heart started racing and she felt terrible. Her head was spinning and she was up all night long. She said, "No way, Karen!" So....since I am super sensitive to medications, I will never try it. I can't even enjoy a cup of decaf coffee after 3 PM, so the idea of trying something that might rev me up is a real turn off.

Bottom line: There are side effects to every single medication and certainly a lot of side effects to marijuana. No thanks!!!!

[PennBF]

It is so sad that a number of individuals believe that Marijuana is OK and nothing worst than alcholol, or it is like a "victimless" crime to use where not legal and many so on's. These same individuals have no experience with patients in Rehab either on Alcoholol or Marijuana. They have not seen the human pain from usage of these drugs. They have not seen the 16 or 17 year old in the throws of grand mall sizeures from these drugs or the results of starting on them and then growing into bigger "kicks" from stronger drugs. It is truly sad to watch these users go through the pain of withdrawal. There are many thousands involved in the illegal activity of pot and it is a huge cost to the citizens. There are kids pushing drugs and getting hooked and spreading the crime. These are NOT victimless. The impact on family life is a whole other story. Who cares if Pot is not as bad (although a stupid argument) as alcholol.
Has anyone watched the latest report by Patrick Kennedy who is totally against making it legal. He just came out of a Rehab. I think a lot of TOTV readers know I am strongly against making it legal. I have seen too much devestation. It is so sad. :wave:

[Polar Bear]

Irrespective of my opinion regarding the legalization of marijuana (I haven't fully decided yet), I always have one problem with the direct comparison of weed and alcohol...

I know many who use alcohol abuse it. But I also know that many who drink it casually really do enjoy a beer, a glass of wine, or a mixed drink for the flavor or to sip in a social setting. They do not get high and they never have any intention of getting high.

The same cannot be said for marijuana. Definitely clouds (no pun intended) the comparison for me.

[Parker]

The OP asked about the effects of marijuana smoking on the lungs. According to The National Institute on Drug Addiction, marijuana smoke is an irritant to the lungs, and frequent marijuana smokers can have many of the same resspiratory problems experienced by tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. One study found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers, mainly because of respiratory illnesses.


However, as a senior I would be more concerned with the short term effect where Marijuana raises heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug. This may be due to increased heart rate as well as the effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in older individuals or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities

This is serious stuff. Stepping down now.

Thank you for the answer to my question. Very interesting. I have also read that many times marijuana has dangerous additives depending on the source of it, so perhaps it is sometimes even worse. That would be a good reason to avoid it.

[Golfingnut]

Thank you for the answer to my question. Very interesting. I have also read that many times marijuana has dangerous additives depending on the source of it, so perhaps it is sometimes even worse. That would be a good reason to avoid it.

Legalization would be with controls and would be helpful to those that are going to use it anyway. Like bootleg whiskey that has killed people during prohibition, that dramatically dropped when it was brought back into the supervision of government.

[Barefoot]

People drink for different reason. I like (one) glass of wine with my meal. However people who light up marijuana do so for one reason only and that is to get high.


I know many who use alcohol abuse it. But I also know that many who drink it casually really do enjoy a beer, a glass of wine, ... for the flavor or to sip in a social setting. They do not get high and they never have any intention of getting high. The same cannot be said for marijuana.

Like Polar Bear, I haven't decided whether I'm yay or nay. But I do have a problem with the above comments about the intent of people that drink alcohol versus the intent of people who smoke grass.

If I understand the comments correctly, both PB and Rubicon believe that people who smoke grass do so ONLY to get high. And that for the most part, people who drink alcohol do so ONLY for the taste, not to get high, and not for the reason that it tends to relax people who are stressed out. (Although I have noticed the popularity of two-for-one happy hours).

Perhaps I'm naive, as I haven't been around pot smokers for many years. Perhaps things have changed. But with both alcohol and grass, I think the intention of mature adults is to enjoy the relaxing benefits of a drink or a toke, and not to get drunk or high.

[BarryRX]

No one is arguing that marijuana is safe. I mean, who would want to legalize a drug that has the following adverse effects:
Unintentional injuries, including traffic injuries, falls, drownings, burns, and unintentional firearm injuries.
Violence, including intimate partner violence and child maltreatment. About 35% of victims report that offenders are under the influence It is also associated with 2 out of 3 incidents of intimate partner violence. Studies have also shown that this is a leading factor in child maltreatment and neglect cases, and is the most frequent substance abused among these parents.
Risky sexual behaviors, including unprotected sex, sex with multiple partners, and increased risk of sexual assault. These behaviors can result in unintended pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases.
Miscarriage and stillbirth among pregnant women, and a combination of physical and mental birth defects among children that last throughout life.
This drug can result in poisoning, a medical emergency that results from high blood levels that suppress the central nervous system and can cause loss of consciousness, low blood pressure and body temperature, coma, respiratory depression, or death.13
Long-Term Health Risks
Over time, excessive the use can lead to the development of chronic diseases, neurological impairments and social problems. These include but are not limited to—
Neurological problems, including dementia, stroke and neuropathy.
Cardiovascular problems, including myocardial infarction, cardiomyopathy, atrial fibrillation and hypertension.
Psychiatric problems, including depression, anxiety, and suicide.17
Social problems, including unemployment, lost productivity, and family problems.
Cancer of the mouth, throat, esophagus, liver, colon, and breast.In general, the risk of cancer increases with increasing amounts of this drug.
Liver diseases, including—
hepatitis.
Cirrhosis, which is among the 15 leading causes of all deaths in the United States.
Among persons with Hepatitis C virus, worsening of liver function and interference with medications used to treat this condition.
Other gastrointestinal problems, including pancreatitis and gastritis
As you may have guessed, the above list of adverse effects is from Alcohol, not marijuana. So, if you don't want marijuana to be legal because of its bad side effects, then you must logically be for the prohibition of alcohol, which is much more dangerous to the health of the individual and probably to society. I have listened to many arguments on this forum about personal freedoms. Most revolve around the argument that the government should not be telling me what to do. If I want to smoke cigarettes, I'll smoke them. If I want to drive a gas guzzler, I'll drive it. If I want to drink 40oz sodas and get obese, then I'll do it. Why is this issue different from those?

[joerocker]

I like to remain "open" but I'm with you, Eliz, on this one. I turned 70 last year and I declared it "The Decade of the Fun"! (like the Chinese Year of the Cat, Rat, Dog, etc). So.....of course, I told all my friends that this is The Decade of the FUN. One of my closest friends was going out to Colorado to visit her brother. Mind you, I never even smoked a cigarette no less MJ! So I told her, "Barb....this is 'The Decade of the Fun', let's try marijuana." You can try it out there....and then we'll try it here". So....her brother, who was ill, had a "brownie". She enjoyed a bit of the brownie.....til her heart started racing and she felt terrible. Her head was spinning and she was up all night long. She said, "No way, Karen!" So....since I am super sensitive to medications, I will never try it. I can't even enjoy a cup of decaf coffee after 3 PM, so the idea of trying something that might rev me up is a real turn off.

Bottom line: There are side effects to every single medication and certainly a lot of side effects to marijuana. No thanks!!!!

Your friend had WAY too much. I'd compare it to someone who has never had an alcoholic drink sitting down and doing shots of whiskey. She/you need to take 1 small toke (one puff will not harm your lungs) from a pipe or a joint. And wait. It should be enough to give you a very (why so many want it legalized) pleasant feeling, the "buzz". Do is somewhere you feel comfortable, with some music. You may move to Colorado. You'll certainly change your stance on legality. You just feel good. And isn't that what it's all about? We eat fine food to feel good. Drink fine wine to feel good. Have friends that make us feel good. Pick a partner because they make us feel good. We seek things that make us feel good.

It is so sad that a number of individuals believe that Marijuana is OK and nothing worst than alcholol, or it is like a "victimless" crime to use where not legal and many so on's. These same individuals have no experience with patients in Rehab either on Alcoholol or Marijuana. They have not seen the human pain from usage of these drugs. They have not seen the 16 or 17 year old in the throws of grand mall sizeures from these drugs or the results of starting on them and then growing into bigger "kicks" from stronger drugs. It is truly sad to watch these users go through the pain of withdrawal. There are many thousands involved in the illegal activity of pot and it is a huge cost to the citizens. There are kids pushing drugs and getting hooked and spreading the crime. These are NOT victimless. The impact on family life is a whole other story. Who cares if Pot is not as bad (although a stupid argument) as alcholol.
Has anyone watched the latest report by Patrick Kennedy who is totally against making it legal. He just came out of a Rehab. I think a lot of TOTV readers know I am strongly against making it legal. I have seen too much devestation. It is so sad. :wave:

People don't go to rehab for marijuana. Nice try. I have no idea what "drug" you're referring to, it's not marijuana.

Thank you for the answer to my question. Very interesting. I have also read that many times marijuana has dangerous additives depending on the source of it, so perhaps it is sometimes even worse. That would be a good reason to avoid it.

To the contrary. People who produce it are very aware that it's going into their/others body. They take great care to ensure purity. Of course I'm referring to individual growers who supply medical marijuana to dispensaries. Or supply marijuana to legal merchants where legal. When/if it becomes a commercialized product, well then it will probably end up full of chemicals, additives, enhancers.

Like Polar Bear, I haven't decided whether I'm yay or nay. But I do have a problem with the above comments about the intent of people that drink alcohol versus the intent of people who smoke grass.

If I understand the comments correctly, both PB and Rubicon believe that people who smoke grass do so ONLY to get high. And that for the most part, people who drink alcohol do so ONLY for the taste, not to get high, and not for the reason that it tends to relax people who are stressed out. (Although I have noticed the popularity of two-for-one happy hours).

Perhaps I'm naive, as I haven't been around pot smokers for many years. Perhaps things have changed. But with both alcohol and grass, I think the intention of mature adults is to enjoy the relaxing benefits of a drink or a toke, and not to get drunk or high.

Exactly...people drink for that "buzz", that relaxing effect it provides. Not to get falling down drunk or with marijuana, just wasting it. That's the thing about marijuana, it only attaches to certain receptors, when they're full, they're full, so you can't get "too high" and you're not damaging anything. The extra just floats around waiting for an opening to attach to. You have all kinds of receptors, many change how you feel. Endorphins, serotonin, etc, all have receptors that change how you feel.

Alcohol is a poison, you're literally feeling the effects of poisoning yourself when you get your "buzz" from alcohol.

[nitehawk]

this is one interesting thread --- cant wait for florida

[Golfingnut]

I am too old to change my love of beer, but hope younger adults see the change from alcohol to pot for recreation.

[PennBF]

The writer is correct most don't go to rehab for marijuana they go BECAUSE of marijuana. It is not arguable that marijunana is a "gateway" drug. That 15-20% of users move on to herion, coke, meth, etc.etc. That is also not debatable. It is not debatable that marijuana has serious health effects on user between 14-21 beyond it being a gateway drug for them . Thus you have 15-20% going to other drugs and inaddition those that don't move on have serious health problems becuase of their usage. None of this can be argued or debated as they are statistical facts. As far as alcholol is concerned that is another story and should be discussed separately from marijuana. Maybe it would bring some knowledge to the doubting Thomas's by looking up the AA meetings currently going on in The Villages. I am getting off the soap box but it is terrible to down play the serious effects of drugs on society. Does the fact that alcholol has the same chemial interation as "embalming fluid" interesting? :ho:

[JB in TV]

The writer is correct most don't go to rehab for marijuana they go BECAUSE of marijuana. It is not arguable that marijunana is a "gateway" drug. That 15-20% of users move on to herion, coke, meth, etc.etc. That is also not debatable. It is not debatable that marijuana has serious health effects on user between 14-21 beyond it being a gateway drug for them . Thus you have 15-20% going to other drugs and inaddition those that don't move on have serious health problems becuase of their usage. None of this can be argued or debated as they are statistical facts. As far as alcholol is concerned that is another story and should be discussed separately from marijuana. Maybe it would bring some knowledge to the doubting Thomas's by looking up the AA meetings currently going on in The Villages. I am getting off the soap box but it is terrible to down play the serious effects of drugs on society. Does the fact that alcholol has the same chemial interation as "embalming fluid" interesting? :ho:

You state that 15-20% of users move on to herion, coke, meth, et. How is that percentage calculated? Do these "statistics" that you mention count every marajuana user? 100% of them? Really? How can you include all of the people who smoke marajuana and never go on to anything else? I'm willing to bet that there are many on (even on TOTV) who have used marajuana yet were not counted in any survey. So I respectfully question your stated facts.

[rubicon]

An addiction is an addiction and the costs personal and to society have been well documented.

The posters who are "open minded" all seem to vote yea because they should have the freedom to do what they want.

the posters who are "closed minded"all seem to vote nay do so because they consider that legalizing pot will increase personal and societal costs and the stronger foothill by the criminal element.

Self interests always win in this country in the short run but in the long rum the country continues to suffer

[joerocker]

The writer is correct most don't go to rehab for marijuana they go BECAUSE of marijuana. It is not arguable that marijunana is a "gateway" drug. That 15-20% of users move on to herion, coke, meth, etc.etc. That is also not debatable. It is not debatable that marijuana has serious health effects on user between 14-21 beyond it being a gateway drug for them . Thus you have 15-20% going to other drugs and inaddition those that don't move on have serious health problems becuase of their usage. None of this can be argued or debated as they are statistical facts. As far as alcholol is concerned that is another story and should be discussed separately from marijuana. Maybe it would bring some knowledge to the doubting Thomas's by looking up the AA meetings currently going on in The Villages. I am getting off the soap box but it is terrible to down play the serious effects of drugs on society. Does the fact that alcholol has the same chemial interation as "embalming fluid" interesting? :ho:

You have the whole "cause and effect" thing wrong. Backwards.

Their personality is an addictive personality, therefore they become addicted to something, anything. Marijuana is just one step in their ultimate addiction. Most who end up in rehab are/have been addicted to many things. Cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, usually all of them. It's like banning Cheerios because every one of the obese all have eaten cheerios. Like banning beer/wine because all alcoholics have at one time drank beer/wine. Marijuana didn't cause their addiction. It didn't do anything but happen to be widely available. It's available because nearly everyone likes it. So, they tried it. They didn't get addicted to marijuana. The marijuana didn't cause their later addiction to something else. People with addictive personalities will end up addicted to something. Whatever is available.

It's still illegal for people under 21. Why is this always brought up? Are ALL laws for the underage worthless because nobody follows them? Then marijuana being illegal is a worthless law because nobody follows it.

Those who have never tried it are the ones who scream most loudly against it. How can you hate something you've never tried? Especially when you see millions who like it so. You're falling for the party line here. You're being misled.

[joerocker]

An addiction is an addiction and the costs personal and to society have been well documented.

The posters who are "open minded" all seem to vote yea because they should have the freedom to do what they want.

the posters who are "closed minded"all seem to vote nay do so because they consider that legalizing pot will increase personal and societal costs and the stronger foothill by the criminal element.

Self interests always win in this country in the short run but in the long rum the country continues to suffer

Yes, the yay's are for freedom of individual choice, the nay's don't think people can make their own decisions and decisions need to be made for them.

Pretty close?

[rubicon]

Yes, the yay's are for freedom of individual choice, the nay's don't think people can make their own decisions and decisions need to be made for them.

Pretty close?

joerocker: Two points (1) Do you think many of these free choicers would desire to be free of government freebies?

2. do you really believe a person's choice to smoke marijuana's is a good choice? If so when the health/mental effects of this drug affect them they need to be free choicers as to situation #1

For me I'll exercise my free choices following healthy choices

[Polar Bear]

...If I understand the comments correctly, both PB and Rubicon believe that people who smoke grass do so ONLY to get high. And that for the most part, people who drink alcohol do so ONLY for the taste, not to get high...

Not exactly, Barefoot. I do believe that people only smoke to get high. But regarding alcohol, I stated that SOME people drink alcohol to just enjoy the taste and to sip a drink in a social setting, not to get high. I know many (most?) do drink for the buzz. But not all.

Still a big difference to me.

[PennBF]

Good question regarding "statistics". Who really cares abour the "base". 15-20% of anything is significant. In the case of 5% of youth going to more addictive drugs (e.g. herion, coke, meth.etc.) that is enough to classifiy it as a crisis. There are places a person can go to learn and educate themselves on addictions while not being an addict. A good place is the Caron Foundation in Pa. It would be worthwhile to spend a week going through intensive workshops, lectures, etc. to truly understand the problems. I would have much more faith in a person who could certify they have actually tried to understand the crisis we are facing with Marijuana and all other drugs. It is costly ( about $2500-3000) for a week but it demonstrates a true desire to be educated before pontificating on a subject without formal knowledge. This facility is the same one Miss America was sent to for help and they also have a program to help others to understand addictions including those who are not addicts. They have a terrific knowledgeable staff and it is pretty intensive. I am not and have not been an addict but felt I should be educated before I discuss the subject and this was referred to me by some very smart people on addiction. :popcorn:

[Villages PL]

Thank you for the answer to my question. Very interesting. I have also read that many times marijuana has dangerous additives depending on the source of it, so perhaps it is sometimes even worse. That would be a good reason to avoid it.

To take it one step further, I heard a doctor on the radio say that they use pesticides and herbacides to grow marijuana. I wouldn't want that in my lungs. Lung cancer is one of the leading causes of death in the U.S..

Not everyone will get lung cancer from smoking marijuana, but why raise your risk? There are enough risks in life as it is.

[nitehawk]

I wonder if they put pesticides and herbicides on the grapes for the wine we all drink and maybe the hops for the beer Ban all processed food and beef with steroids - Ban everything -- would you be happy
31360

[rubicon]

Back in the day we had a rule to recruit only those with college education. We didn't necessarily believe that all college educated people were the only smart ones but we did believe they we were selecting from a better pool of prospective employees . And before anyone gets their dander up, I did personally promote people w/o college educations over the years.

My real point here is that what do you suppose you would get from a pool of people who admitted to smoking pot and a group of people you verified did not smoke pot? Who would you hire? Who would you let take your daughter out on a date?

My other thought is that some posters view this has a right. Since when are vices rights. I can answer that question for you, when the government can tax you for it. The government arrested criminals for promoting gambling for years sending them to jail until they figured out they could collect taxes for it. So they legalized horse racing among other things. What was ironic is that in a moment these criminals became businessmen. Also ironic are the posters found at these establishments warning people if they had a gambling problem to call------- I abhor hypocrisy . And what became of America's moral imperative? Should Americans be spending their time in a fight over legalizing marijuana or for the return to the rule of law and our political leaders to abide by the US Constitution et cetra et cetra et cetra.

[billethkid]

Back in the day we had a rule to recruit only those with college education. We didn't necessarily believe that all college educated people were the only smart ones but we did believe they we were selecting from a better pool of prospective employees . And before anyone gets their dander up, I did personally promote people w/o college educations over the years.

My real point here is that what do you suppose you would get from a pool of people who admitted to smoking pot and a group of people you verified did not smoke pot? Who would you hire? Who would you let take your daughter out on a date?

My other thought is that some posters view this has a right. Since when are vices rights. I can answer that question for you, when the government can tax you for it. The government arrested criminals for promoting gambling for years sending them to jail until they figured out they could collect taxes for it. So they legalized horse racing among other things. What was ironic is that in a moment these criminals became businessmen. Also ironic are the posters found at these establishments warning people if they had a gambling problem to call------- I abhor hypocrisy . And what became of America's moral imperative? Should Americans be spending their time in a fight over legalizing marijuana or for the return to the rule of law and our political leaders to abide by the US Constitution et cetra et cetra et cetra.

Well stated position that reflects a very large segment of the populations position on legalizing pot?

Once again.......... for those who are beating the drum about how good it is and great to be legal and all the benefits from using it.......if it in fact has no harmful side effects or does not lead to bigger and better drugs and is so medicinally effective, why did it take until now for it to become legal? Why not 30-60 years ago?

[Golfingnut]

It will become legal, let's hope it happens before too many more die using other means for relief.


America's Drug Policy Doesn't Make Sense (http://www.prosebeforehos.com/image-of-the-day/09/16/americas-drug-policy-doesnt-make-sense/)

[DonH57]

It will become legal, let's hope it happens before too many more die using other means for relief.


America's Drug Policy Doesn't Make Sense (http://www.prosebeforehos.com/image-of-the-day/09/16/americas-drug-policy-doesnt-make-sense/)

It will take time but it's coming.

[Barefoot]

It will become legal, let's hope it happens before too many more die using other means for relief.
America's Drug Policy Doesn't Make Sense (http://www.prosebeforehos.com/image-of-the-day/09/16/americas-drug-policy-doesnt-make-sense/)

It will take time but it's coming.

I'm not sure if it's a good or a bad thing, but I do believe that it's inevitable that MJ will become legal. I think it will happen slowly, state by state. Of course it will be bitterly opposed. But eventually it will happen.

[rubicon]

It will become legal, let's hope it happens before too many more die using other means for relief.


America's Drug Policy Doesn't Make Sense (http://www.prosebeforehos.com/image-of-the-day/09/16/americas-drug-policy-doesnt-make-sense/)

Golfingnut: People press for legalization for marijuana based too often on a need medicinal need. take for instance in Florida were some people claim an extract from marijuana (cannabidiol or CBD) is an effective treatment for a rare disease Dravet syndrome. Yet Elson So president of the American Epilepsy Society states there is no scientific data on its effectiveness and safety of CBD. How many people become junkies using legal prescription drugs. The medicinal angle is a red herring to bypass the legitimate objections of people considered with the affect legalization will have on society. These political canard about rights and freedoms are driving this country morally bankrupt and hence we continue to repeat the mistakes of Rome but if you are one bent on taking a toke...its all good man..beside I don't inhale

[PennBF]

It is so sad so many are in favor of making marijuana legal without doing any true homework on the subject. Without truly understanding the impact on the youth, (e.g. 2 famous Dr's pointed out that between 60-70% of patients in Rehab started on marijuana and a majority of these as youths.) They also pointed out the brain damage it does to the youths when they use it. I would stress the need to do homework, study the drug and really understand it's dangers. Both Dr's are head of their fields in major hospitals, (e.g. Directors of the Units, etc.) A more profound question is that with the added usage of drugs, has/is the overall IQ in the US gone down? I would submit it must as there are more and more users. This would include Marijuana, Alcholol, Coke, Herion, Crack, etc. etc. Kind of scary..:yuck:

[Bruiser1]

Who said they should drive while high? Did anyone? Did anyone here say anything condoning driving while high? Don't do it. Just like beer and wine, if you have too much, don't drive. Remember, people smoking marijuana DON'T do the stupid things people who drink do. Again an argument out of the blue, taken out of context. You shouldn't drive under medication, under alcohol, or high.

You want to talk about impaired drivers, our biggest danger here is the elderly who shouldn't be behind the wheel.

:agree:

Don't drive while IMPAIRED......don't even putt!

[FloridaShrimp]

Guess the answer is to eat "enhanced" brownies. Cuts out any question of lung damage.

[tranceminder]

My lifelong friend, who now lives in Colorado, tells me that more and more users of THP are consuming "edibles". This is especially the way for our generation who don't want to bother smoking or vaporizing.
Today, you can get a lozenge or gummy with the exact milligrams of THP you want without smoking.
imo ... just the tip of the iceberg, as this trend will "grow" exponentially in years ahead.

[tranceminder]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My lifelong friend, who now lives in Colorado, tells me that more and more users of THP are consuming "edibles". This is especially the way for our generation who don't want to bother smoking or vaporizing.
Today, you can get a lozenge or gummy with the exact milligrams of THP you want without smoking.
imo ... just the tip of the iceberg, as this trend will "grow" exponentially in years ahead.

[ronsroni]

A little pot between friends can't be all bad! It never hurt my lungs and my back pain is lessened when I do smoke.
I can only speak for myself but I look forward to legalizing this organic product. My liver will never go sour either. I don't drink a drop.

[DonH57]

The last three doctors I've had have all told me the same answer when I posed the question about possibility of medical use of marijuana. The answer was " for fear of possibility of loss of license I have no opinion on the subject". Quite frankly they are all right. No medical official will ever stick their neck out in support of research. Puff puff pass or not.

[rubicon]

A little pot between friends can't be all bad! It never hurt my lungs and my back pain is lessened when I do smoke.
I can only speak for myself but I look forward to legalizing this organic product. My liver will never go sour either. I don't drink a drop.

Yea that is what they said about that organic product called tobacco until they began in the early 1960's to warn of lung, throat lip cancers, Yet despite clear evidence people continue to smoke and are paying the ultimate price and a small fortunate every time they buy a pack. And bypassing smoking/vaporizing to food means now people will have just more munchies and more obesity but these folks won't be in a frame of mind to care. so I wonder how may of the little fellows and girls are going to get their hands wrapped around that heavenly brownie .
But heck we always have some folks that over react about everything. They ought to light up lay back and soothe out its all good man

[Parker]

Guess the answer is to eat "enhanced" brownies. Cuts out any question of lung damage.


Enhanced brownies? Aren't they ALL enhanced?:icon_hungry:

[janmcn]

The Florida Supreme Court ruled today that the initiative to allow medical marijuana will be on the ballot in November 2014. This will give all voters the opportunity to express their opinions.

[Villages PL]

I wonder if they put pesticides and herbicides on the grapes for the wine we all drink and maybe the hops for the beer Ban all processed food and beef with steroids - Ban everything -- would you be happy
31360

I don't smoke wine, beer, processed foods, beef or any other foods. What goes in your lungs is handled differently than what goes in your stomach. Your liver is capable of filtering out impurities. With marijuana you have the smoke itself and whatever impurities go along with it. Not good, in my opinion.

[Justjac]

billethkid "gee as good as it is for all to use I keep wondering why it has taken at least the last 78 years that I know of to come to pass?"

Marijuana has been around a whole lot longer than "78" years. Do an internet search on "Queen Victoria and marijuana."

[Villages PL]

If medical marijuana becomes legal, doctors will be in charge of deciding who gets it and who doesn't. That could pose a problem because certain doctors will give it to almost anyone who asks for it. No doubt there will be some doctors who won't do that. But many will think twice about refusing to prescrible it. They might think: "If I refuse, will this patient leave my care and find another doctor?"

The other problem I see coming: 2/3, of the U.S. population, are either overweight or obese. 1/3 of adults are obese. As marijuana use becomes more and more common, will it help or hurt this situation. I believe it will make things worse. Everyone knows about getting the "munchies". And I doubt that marijuana users will get hungry for anything healthy. It will likely be for salty or sugery snacks. In other words, it will be a junk-food binge.

[ilovetv]

If medical marijuana becomes legal, doctors will be in charge of deciding who gets it and who doesn't. That could pose a problem because certain doctors will give it to almost anyone who asks for it. No doubt there will be some doctors who won't do that. But many will think twice about refusing to prescrible it. They might think: "If I refuse, will this patient leave my care and find another doctor?"

The other problem I see coming: 2/3, of the U.S. population, are either overweight or obese. 1/3 of adults are obese. As marijuana use becomes more and more common, will it help or hurt this situation. I believe it will make things worse. Everyone knows about getting the "munchies". And I doubt that marijuana users will get hungry for anything healthy. It will likely be for salty or sugery snacks. In other words, it will be a junk-food binge.

VPL, bad as the junk-food binge wave would be, the constant stupor that lowers the students' and employees' IQ by 20 points and halts productivity will be the far larger problem to society. If anybody thinks they're not in stupor, just ask the sober people around them, or ask a person who has quit completely for at least a year, and they can tell you how much more they can get done and accomplish without that intoxicant. (Gee. I wonder why the root word "toxic" is in intoxicant.)

Already, chronic pot heads are on unemployment compensation, public disability payments, disability medicare in their 40s, 50s and 60s, and they're modeling the loser pot head lifestyle to their kids for whom it's normal to see mom and dad in a constant stupor and unable to get a job with an employer who will set objectives, deadlines and quotas for productivity to which compensation is tied.

And then there's the matter of this nation already having a shortage of primary care doctors to take care of people once they get some kind of public or private insurance. The last thing we need is for doctors to spend 30% of their office consult time on plain ole ordinary recreational pot smokers seeking a "medical" permit for it......which then Medicare and Medicaid (taxpayers) will surely be expected to pay for.

[sharonga]

Do you think there is a club for this matter????

[billethkid]

billethkid "gee as good as it is for all to use I keep wondering why it has taken at least the last 78 years that I know of to come to pass?"

Marijuana has been around a whole lot longer than "78" years. Do an internet search on "Queen Victoria and marijuana."

My point was/is, for those ranting how good it is and so on.... why did it take so long to be legalized? Why was it illegal in the first place?

My opinion? The permissive nature of our society and the rampaging non enforcement for fear of hurting someones feelings. The ongoing withering of America's core values!

[twinklesweep]

I have not read this thread before, so I am responding to a number of posts. I am not taking a position one way or the other on the subject:


Ask any Heroin user what they started off with !!!!

I would still answer "alcohol," even though others answered "caffeine"; it is true that both are drugs and potentially addictive.


This subject is an explosive one for some including me. Regulators have declared war on cigarette smokers, including e-cigarettes and they do not see a problem with legalizing marijuanta.

there is no logic in comparing cigarettes to alcohol or to marijuanta because each has its own sets of health and social problems

The Daily Sun carried a cartoon which spoke to this issue in its Sunday edition. Two panels show a drawing of the brain. In the top panel it reads 'Liberals this is your brain and the brain in that panel reads "Ban soda"" Ban cupcakes" Öutlaw all unhealthy snacks"

The second panel reads "This is your brain on legalized pot." Any questions?
The writing on the brain reads "Hey man who took my munchies?

States like Colorado that open themselves up to legalized recreational pot have opened up a Pandora's box. It will not stop illegal pot it will not keep the criminal element out but actually increase their insertion into this program and they will not be able to keep it away from minors nor control the amount they purchase.

and to the benefit of medical marijuanta the fact is that other alternatives are available some more effective

someone joked about reefer madness so I won't bother to explain the brain damage caused by this drug. and you can count on people with addictive behavior from all walks of life being stoned most of the day....and that's why its called dope

And the decline of America continues

Where do I start?!

Can you please document the following statement that says that these "regulators" are one and the same persons? "Regulators have declared war on cigarette smokers, including e-cigarettes and they do not see a problem with legalizing marijuanta."

Leave it to the Daily Sun to politicize an issue like this (and so many other issues); other than to sell homes in TV, that is its role in our community!

Can you please document the following statement? "It will not stop illegal pot it will not keep the criminal element out but actually increase their insertion into this program and they will not be able to keep it away from minors nor control the amount they purchase." As pointed out in numerous postings, minors (and "majors") have no problem purchasing marijuana in whatever quantities they can afford NOW. Does anyone doubt this?

Not being a physician, I cannot comment on this statement, but I do know some persons who have benefited greatly from medical marijuana use: "and to the benefit of medical marijuanta the fact is that other alternatives are available some more effective"

And this is in relation to this discussion about legalizing marijuana and its medical uses? Huh? "And the decline of America continues"


I'm sure it's not good for your lungs. What smoke would be? But, from what I hear, it's the additives (what's new right?) in cigarettes that cause most of the damage. Commercial tobacco is supposedly full of all kinds of additives and enhancers. People who grow their own tobacco reportedly don't develop the problems that commercial cigarette smokers develop....

There has been a seriously disingenuous campaign to make it out as something it isn't. I personally believe it's the alcohol and drug manufacturers who want to keep it illegal. Its legality will seriously cut into alcohol sales, so it's days may be numbered. Those corporations will fund "studies", they'll "report" all kinds of negatives about it to force the people and the states to make it illegal again. Mark my words, the smear campaigns will begin shortly. There will be news stories about all the "stoners" being created to discredit this legalization decision. Or, the Federal government will relent and remove it as a schedule 1 drug so the "big boys" can get involved and commercialize it...with artificial additives and enhancers.

Yes, the additives to commercial tobacco are there to make cigarettes addictive. This is common knowledge, now that the cat is out of the bag insofar as big tobacco companies are concerned; one can Google this and easily find info about it.

But the important point here is about the "seriously disingenuous campaign," and my comment is off-topic because it is not about the legalization of marijuana, I realize, but the point is too important to overlook. For those who believe our country is run by politicians/elected officials, there is that same bridge I would like to sell you--cheap! (Yes, it's the Brooklyn Bridge, and I can even give you a deed of ownership made by myself on my home computer, but don't tell anyone....) Our country is run by LOBBYISTS, and those lobbyists with the deepest pockets get to do the most "governing," that is, manipulating! I don't want to go so off topic by naming other issues unrelated to marijuana, but they are definitely there!


.... I simply stated that caffeine is a drug. It's a stimulant. How many people do you know who can't/won't do anything without their morning coffee? They're addicted to caffeine. There are people who lose their mind without a cigarette. They are addicted. I've yet to hear anything of people "addicted" to marijuana.

While I suspect that there are those who are "addicted" to marijuana, it's a point well taken that caffeine and nicotine are addictive drugs, that is, coffee and cigarettes. Does anyone doubt this? Addiction is addiction, and an addictive personality is an addictive personality. As the same poster said in a later post, "Are you an alcoholic who can't control themselves? Then you should stay away from marijuana too.... Just like alcohol prohibition ended because the people wanted their 'buzz', marijuana prohibition will end too. Unless the big corporations can put out enough negative propaganda about it.... The pharmacists and distilleries have a monopoly on that. And they want to keep it that way." A drug is a drug is a drug! And those "big corporations," including "pharmacists and distilleries," are what I was alluding to in terms of our country being run by lobbyists!

.... True marketing states find a need and fill it. What is the need for pot the government is responding to satisfy? And per my previous post why now and not 10, 20 ,30 ,50, 70 years ago?

Short answer: Greed and politics.

Though this poster takes the opposite stance on the legalization issue, for him too it boils down to his "short answer: Greed and politics." Sounds about right....


.... what I said is by socializing it we normalize it which sends a signal to kids that's its cool....

I respectfully disagree. I believe that the fact that marijuana is illegal is part of what makes it "cool"!


I mean isn't that why kids smoke because their parents smoked and if they smoked it must not be a problem.

I also said that a comparison to cigarettes and alcohol to pot was not a basis for making an argument for a number of reasons....

Again I respectfully disagree on both points.

First, let's use cigarettes (legal) as an example. Children coming from a household where parents smoke do not necessarily (and automatically) become cigarette smokers. And conversely, children who come from a non-smoking household may become smokers for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with the household they came from.

Second, let's call marijuana versus cigarettes and alcohol an "analogy" rather than a "comparison," and let's take the word "argument" out of the discussion to lessen its confrontational feel. My question is: Why would these discussions not be analogous? Could it be because there are those who say "But I only have three cigarettes a day, one after each meal" or "I just enjoy a single glass of wine with dinner" and feel that their use of nicotine and alcohol is justified based on the degree of usage and are being judgmental about others who have a different preference, in this case marijuana? Just a thought....


.... Their personality is an addictive personality, therefore they become addicted to something, anything. Marijuana is just one step in their ultimate addiction. Most who end up in rehab are/have been addicted to many things. Cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, usually all of them. It's like banning Cheerios because every one of the obese all have eaten cheerios. Like banning beer/wine because all alcoholics have at one time drank beer/wine. Marijuana didn't cause their addiction. It didn't do anything but happen to be widely available. It's available because nearly everyone likes it. So, they tried it. They didn't get addicted to marijuana. The marijuana didn't cause their later addiction to something else. People with addictive personalities will end up addicted to something. Whatever is available....

I made this point earlier. While I don't agree that marijuana is "available because nearly everyone likes it" (a difficult statement to document), whatever substance appeals to an individual is called "drug of choice," it can be legal or illegal, and "people with addictive personalities will end up addicted to something. Whatever is available...." I recall the wife of a public figure drinking rubbing alcohol because she was so desperate; that's how severe this disease--and that is what it is--can be! And for her and countless others, booze is essential--and legal!

Yes, the yay's are for freedom of individual choice, the nay's don't think people can make their own decisions and decisions need to be made for them....

What?! Are those who are opposed to legalization of marijuana in favor of MORE government (in terms of regulation), versus those who are in favor being "for freedom of individual choice"?! Gasp....


My point was/is, for those ranting how good it is and so on.... why did it take so long to be legalized? Why was it illegal in the first place?

My opinion? The permissive nature of our society and the rampaging non enforcement for fear of hurting someones feelings. The ongoing withering of America's core values!

Here again I am looking at an analogy between not legalizing marijuana usage and Prohibition. History tells us the latter did not work and was subsequently repealed. Was there a "withering of America's core values" stemming from the repeal? Those who were active in temperance societies would shout a resounding "YES!" Those who enjoy their booze would surely say "NO!"


I reiterate that nowhere am I expressing a point of view concerning the subject of legalization versus not. Rather, I am just commenting on the views expressed by various posters on this important subject....

[Barefoot]

Here again I am looking at an analogy between not legalizing marijuana usage and Prohibition. History tells us the latter did not work and was subsequently repealed. Was there a "withering of America's core values" stemming from the repeal? Those who were active in temperance societies would shout a resounding "YES!" Those who enjoy their booze would surely say "NO!"


Thank you Twinklesweep, I enjoyed reading your thoughtful comments. I doubt there could ever be a "meeting of the minds" on the marijuana legalization issue. As you pointed out above, there are still people who would advocate prohibition of alcohol.

[Parker]

And as far as addiction goes, not being educated enough on the marijuana topic to offer an opinion either pro or con for legalization, I will venture to say that you can't make all addictive substances illegal. Food is a classic example.

[twinklesweep]

And as far as addiction goes, not being educated enough on the marijuana topic to offer an opinion either pro or con for legalization, I will venture to say that you can't make all addictive substances illegal. Food is a classic example.

How easy for many (and how convenient for some) to overlook this very valid point!

[billethkid]

2ad·dict
noun \ˈa-(ˌ)dikt\

: a person who is not able to stop taking drugs : a person who is addicted to drugs

: a person who likes or enjoys something very much and spends a large amount of time doing it, watching it, etc.

[sharonga]

At this point in our lives, who cares what we do to have fun as long as we are not hurting others. I have indulged and I have stopped. I don't like to drink. I never tried harder drugs. I would rather hang out with a bunch of stoners than the drunks hanging out in town. Just saying

[benj]

One thing i haven't heard talked about is the sleeping benefit. Many people have trouble sleeping at night. A lack of adequate sleep is not healthy and the cause of many other issues health related. A couple of hits 30 minuets before bed will let you sleep like a baby and wake up with no hangover or other ill effects, just a smile on your face.

[KeepingItReal]

Thank you Twinklesweep, I enjoyed reading your thoughtful comments. I doubt there could ever be a "meeting of the minds" on the marijuana legalization issue. As you pointed out above, there are still people who would advocate prohibition of alcohol.

Probably anyone that has lost a family member to a drunk driver would be an advocate of banning alcohol or maybe those whose homes were wrecked due to an alcoholic, or even those that are in AAA might agree.

Many have already and more will suffer the same from pot.

Seems easy to turn a blind eye to those problems....

[Barefoot]

Thank you Twinklesweep, I enjoyed reading your thoughtful comments. I doubt there could ever be a "meeting of the minds" on the marijuana legalization issue. As you pointed out above, there are still people who would advocate prohibition of alcohol.

Probably anyone that has lost a family member to a drunk driver would be an advocate of banning alcohol or maybe those whose homes were wrecked due to an alcoholic, or even those that are in AAA might agree. Many have already and more will suffer the same from pot. Seems easy to turn a blind eye to those problems....

Since you quoted my post, I assume you are directing your comments to me.

My only sibling, my sister, was killed by a drunk driver. There will always be people who abuse alcohol or pot or prescription drugs. In my opinion, banning these substances won't eliminate the abusive users. It will just create an unregulated industry of bootleggers. Just one opinion.

[Golfingnut]

Since you quoted my post, I assume you are directing your comments to me.

My only sibling, my sister, was killed by a drunk driver. There will always be people who abuse alcohol or pot or prescription drugs. In my opinion, banning these substances won't eliminate the abusive users. It will just create an unregulated industry of bootleggers. Just one opinion.

Sorry for your loss BF. Your take on alcohol and pot is a healthy educated approach. I also don't have any desire to smoke pot, but I know people that do and being around them is so pleasant when compared to being around someone that has been drinking. It is like pot makes people calm and polite yet FOR SOME, alcohol turns them into irritating fools.