February POA Bulletin - Axe to Grind

[ilovetv]

This month's POA Bulletin was on our counter, and I don't remember it standing out for being as negative--and even venomous--as this month's edition does.

In huge print the front-page headline reads: 2012-2013 Golf Cart Related Fatalities and Serious Injuries in The Villages

Then, underscored in a blue box above the fold it says in all caps: "Your Lawsuit Settlement Dollars at Work".

Below that is "Owens Corning Defective Shingles Update"

Beside that is POA Meeting announcement with the topic in large print: "Sinkhole and Golf Cart Insurance Things You Need to Know".

And the ugliness goes on from there. Now. I'm not saying these are not valid topics nor that the Daily Fun is all one needs to read here.

What I keep asking myself about this group and editor is, "If TV is so terrible, why do they continue to LIVE here????"

To me it seems like they're looking for a new/different axe to grind. And the developer is always here to hate and loathe.

http://poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201402.pdf

[JP]

I agree. Was actually kind of shocked.

[justjim]

I certainly don't agree with everything printed in the POA (or the Daily Sun) but I like the idea of "checks & balances".

[kittygilchrist]

you know, I haven't read it, but I appreciate your taking time to say it is extremely negative. It might be of some value to give a negative evaluation of the POA as you have done, in parallel, exactly the same as the POA has apparently said re the developer.

Hoping for a better community in TV, perhaps if you are strongly motivated, you would consider holding a position in the POA to become a viable positive voice. It's not anything that would motivate me, so I hope someone else with energy and strength will step up, maybe someone who reads this will be inspired...

[redwitch]

There was also some good. For instance, the bulletin mentioned that the Sun was doing a much better job of reporting crimes in TV.

They did mention a lot more negative issues than they have in awhile. They live here because they love it here. They don't love a lot of what they've seen happening in the past and there's a very real fear that it will continue in the future. There were some legitimate reasons for the class action suit. The white striping on the golf cart paths can make a difference (slight, but a difference). There are some very legitimate complaints about the El Santiago restaurant/rec center -- for someone to say that they don't want to vote for something (restaurant) because it would be in direct competition with the developer even though most residents want the restaurant is wrong in my opinion. Supposedly, the AAC folks represent us, not the Morses. So, it is important to know who is voting the "party" line rather than what is best for TV and its residents.

I'm honestly not sure that the golf cart injuries need to be mentioned on a monthly basis but there seems to be enough interest to make it newsworthy. I would be just as happy with a very brief blurb about burglaries, robberies, etc. than making it a major news item, but that's me.

As to its negativity, you should have read it a few years ago. I think the editor and writers were so fed up with being stonewalled and feeling they were constantly being lied to that they couldn't say a good thing about anything the Morses did. That has most definitely changed, even in this month's issue but there's no question there's still a lot of frustration.

[Easyrider]

Could be that the POA appears negative because everyone runs the the POA when there is a serious problem or they need help with an issue they cannot get resolved any other way.

At least they will address the tough issues and we would all be in trouble if there was nowhere to get help when needed and were left to the mercy of the developer.

Checks and balances are all important. It should not have taken a lawsuit to get the funds added to the amenity funds but since it did it speaks volumes and shows there is a true need for the POA.

Just read the VHA newsletter tonight and everything brought up was pushed off as being the responsibility of the Sumter road department with no offer to work with them to get anything done about anything. What good is that?

You don't have to not love to live here to be able see a problem when one develops and be willing to address it. No place is perfect including the Villages. It's no one's right to ask anyone why they want to live here as long as they pay the price required to do so. Don't like the POA, don't read their bulletin.

Why would anyone want to write a negative post bashing the POA and complaining about the POA being negative??

[ilovetv]

"They live here because they love it here."

I don't think so. There are too many beautiful, more affordable communities with the same type of homes in this Central FL area, and on the Atlantic and Gulf coastal areas, to sit here complaining, suing, and stewing about a 'villain' they've never met....and never need to meet in order to live and enjoy life here.

To me one of the most telling aspects is that the loud mentions of "your lawsuit money" do not indicate even a shred of happiness that the matter was adjudicated, settled and paid.....and that the improvement projects are complete or being completed to satisfaction.

It's almost like they want the bad taste of "lawsuit" to continue on into the future even though the plaintiffs got what they wanted, and the problems are being solved.

It seems to me this settled and paid "lawsuit" is being kept alive to continue the hatred against the developer. "Keep the villain alive so we can keep flogging him" seems to be the goal.

"Bitterness is a poison we swallow, hoping our enemy will die."

[ilovetv]

"Why would anyone want to write a negative post bashing the POA and complaining about the POA being negative??"

Because it seems to me that the paper that was mostly informative....is now mostly vindictive.

And because newcomers and new buyers do not deserve to be frightened into thinking they made, or are about to make, the biggest mistake of their lives by buying here.

My concern is they're scaring people, needlessly.

[Easyrider]

I don't think so. There are too many beautiful, more affordable communities with the same type of homes in this Central FL area, and on the Atlantic and Gulf coastal areas, to sit here complaining, suing, and stewing about a 'villain' they've never met....and never need to meet in order to live and enjoy life here.

To me one of the most telling aspects is that the loud mentions of "your lawsuit money" do not indicate even a shred of happiness that the matter was adjudicated, settled and paid.....and that the improvement projects are complete or being completed to satisfaction.

It's almost like they want the bad taste of "lawsuit" to continue on into the future even though the plaintiffs got what they wanted, and the problems are being solved.

It seems to me this settled and paid "lawsuit" is being kept alive to continue the hatred against the developer. "Keep the villain alive so we can keep flogging him" seems to be the goal.

"Bitterness is a poison we swallow, hoping our enemy will die."



More bitterness here than in the POA Bullentin, lighten up and relax a bit! They have a right to do as they feel is necessary just like everyone else and a whole lot of people agree with them.

[Villages Kahuna]

I wouldn't know about the editorial content of the POA Bulletin. I told the POA member who delivers the paper to stop delivering it to my house several years ago. I figured I had a lot better things to do with my time than to read the anti-developer vitriol they publish.

Someone in this thread said something along the lines that "...we need the POA to protect us from the merciless developer". Someone else said that if the POA complainers don't like it here (unlike about 97% of those of us who do, based on the annual survey), why not just throw in the towel and move someplace where they can be happier?

I agree with that last observation. If the complainers would move they'd make us happier too. Maybe we could bump the percentage of completely happy Villagers up closer to 100%.

[njbchbum]

This month's POA Bulletin was on our counter, and I don't remember it standing out for being as negative--and even venomous--as this month's edition does.

In huge print the front-page headline reads: 2012-2013 Golf Cart Related Fatalities and Serious Injuries in The Villages

Then, underscored in a blue box above the fold it says in all caps: "Your Lawsuit Settlement Dollars at Work".

Below that is "Owens Corning Defective Shingles Update"

Beside that is POA Meeting announcement with the topic in large print: "Sinkhole and Golf Cart Insurance Things You Need to Know".

And the ugliness goes on from there. Now. I'm not saying these are not valid topics nor that the Daily Fun is all one needs to read here.

What I keep asking myself about this group and editor is, "If TV is so terrible, why do they continue to LIVE here????"

To me it seems like they're looking for a new/different axe to grind. And the developer is always here to hate and loathe.

http://poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201402.pdf


Is this a negative post about a POA bulletin that is perceived to be a negative publication?

[graciegirl]

i agree. Was actually kind of shocked.


Me too!!!

[golf2140]

They keep beating a dead horse over and over and over.

[Cedwards38]

If anything they are saying about shingles, lawsuits, insurance, etc. is untrue, then the POA should be taken to task for it. If what they say is true, then we have a right as informed citizens to know it.
As for the golf cart accidents, clearly they are trying to encourage all of us to install and use seat belts in order to save lives. I agree with that.

[perrjojo]

Why is the POA so negative? Because without it, they would have no purpose. Without the negativity they would lose their sense of importance and power.

[quirky3]

The headlines you mention are factual updates about true events. Why shoot the messenger? Look at all the threads on TOTV about the same topics - you haven't gone after those people or told them to move if they don't like it.

No one is happy that those things are happening, but there is nothing wrong with honest reporting.

[rubicon]

Let me get this straight some folks here believe the raison deter for organizing the POA was solely because they desired to spew negativity and hatred toward the Developer...that's your position. You cite as evidence negative stories such as golf Cart accident stats, continuation of the facts surrounding the amenity lawsuit, et al.

Those of you who do might take time to go back on the history of why the POA was organized and follow through to present day rather than take comfort in your confirmation bias because the POA saved your bacon more than once. The POA attempted several times to work with both the Developer and the VHA and their attempts were directed out of hand. Why because the Developer knew they would work to keep him to satisify the promises he made and to honor his responsibilities.

In essence the POA was an invention made out of necessity

If you believe that the aforementioned headlines cited by the OP are negative for the sake of negativity then those with that thought ought not to read a single newspaper, watch a single TV news program or listen to a single radio news broadcast because if golf Cart Accident statistics get your goat what is happening to you with some of the political and economic headlines for the last 10 years. Are those stories negatively created by their writers for the sake of negativity?

I find it incredulous that people have this perception of the POA and feel badly for those in leadership at the POA who have worked so hard on residents behalf only to be besmirched, ridiculed and unfairly judged.

I have been in disagreement with some issues handled by the POA but at least they cared enough to attempt a resolution

[Mikeod]

Perhaps they could tone down the lawsuit mentions, although they are the group that initiated the action that resulted in those north of 466 having sufficient funds to repair, replace, and remodel amenities that we all can use.

But I didn't take the rest of the paper as being unnecessarily negative. With regard to the shingles fiasco, I agree with their assertions that the developer has not performed as well as possible. Warranty knows which homes had the defective type of shingles installed. Why weren't the owners notified there may be a problem? Why did homeowners have to hear about the problem word of mouth? Why didn't the developer use his significant clout to pressure OC to inspect and replace in a timely manner so that both shingles and removal/installation were done within the warranty period and at no cost to the homeowner that had, with the purchase of the home, already paid for them?

As far as seatbelts in carts, it is obvious the POA recommends them. There are plenty of folks who deny they help prevent ejections. Ejections from carts are the cause of most cart injuries. The continual reporting of these injuries may just convince more people to install and use seatbelts, or at least drive more carefully.

The POA performs an important function in this community. You may quibble about their words, but I'm glad they are watching out for all of us.

And, no, I'm not a past or present POA officer. Just a homeowner who loves it here and appreciates what the developer has created, but is aware there are blemishes on the Mona Lisa.

[Wing-nut2]

The items you're talking about are talked about on this board all the time. They must be items that people care about.

[graciegirl]

The items you're talking about are talked about on this board all the time. They must be items that people care about.



It is the TONE of the bulletin that gets me cross.


Here is a link to an article from 2008 about "the lawsuit".


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-03-09/news/lvillages09_1_villages-fees-lawyer

[Happinow]

It seems that I read a lot on here that it would be beneficial for cart and Car accidents to be reported, robberies be reported, burglaries be reported, mugging be reported and any crime be reported. We want to know what's going on with those faulty roofs and other news worthy stories. Now that the POA has reported some such incidents everyone is ticked off. You complained about the "Happy Paper" not reporting anything negative and now that negative information is reported you are mad. I think there are some people that can't be pleased. You don't have to candy coat negative news. It seems that some want that to happen. Bad news is bad news. You either want to read about it or you don't. I appreciate the up front tone of this last POA. It told it like it is....like it or not.

[CFrance]

Let me get this straight some folks here believe the raison deter for organizing the POA was solely because they desired to spew negativity and hatred toward the Developer...that's your position. You cite as evidence negative stories such as golf Cart accident stats, continuation of the facts surrounding the amenity lawsuit, et al.

Those of you who do might take time to go back on the history of why the POA was organized and follow through to present day rather than take comfort in your confirmation bias because the POA saved your bacon more than once. The POA attempted several times to work with both the Developer and the VHA and their attempts were directed out of hand. Why because the Developer knew they would work to keep him to satisify the promises he made and to honor his responsibilities.

In essence the POA was an invention made out of necessity

If you believe that the aforementioned headlines cited by the OP are negative for the sake of negativity then those with that thought ought not to read a single newspaper, watch a single TV news program or listen to a single radio news broadcast because if golf Cart Accident statistics get your goat what is happening to you with some of the political and economic headlines for the last 10 years. Are those stories negatively created by their writers for the sake of negativity?

I find it incredulous that people have this perception of the POA and feel badly for those in leadership at the POA who have worked so hard on residents behalf only to be besmirched, ridiculed and unfairly judged.

I have been in disagreement with some issues handled by the POA but at least they cared enough to attempt a resolution

Well said, Rubicon.

[graciegirl]

Read the Town Hall section.


The Villages Homeowners Association » Village Voice Articles (http://www.thevha.net/villages-voice/village-voice-articles/?disp=1&id=2502&aid=2504)

[Trayderjoe]

There was also some good. For instance, the bulletin mentioned.....

Could be that the POA appears negative because everyone runs the the POA when there is a serious problem or they need help with an issue they cannot get resolved......

Let me get this straight some folks here believe the raison deter for organizing the POA was solely because they desired to spew negativity and hatred toward the Developer...

I shortened the posters quotes for brevity's sake, but wished to acknowledge the content. I'd also like to acknowledge the OP's posting as a right to post their opinion. What are the facts? Where discussions become undermined is when labeling and name calling enter the discussion.
:popcorn::popcorn:

[Golf View]

If anything they are saying about shingles, lawsuits, insurance, etc. is untrue, then the POA should be taken to task for it. If what they say is true, then we have a right as informed citizens to know it.
As for the golf cart accidents, clearly they are trying to encourage all of us to install and use seat belts in order to save lives. I agree with that.
Those few who want seat belts on their golf carts can get them, no problem.

Don't try to force them on the rest of us.

[CFrance]

Read the Town Hall section.


The Villages Homeowners Association » Village Voice Articles (http://www.thevha.net/villages-voice/village-voice-articles/?disp=1&id=2502&aid=2504)
Gracie, went to your link, but I don't see a Town Hall section...?

[graciegirl]

Gracie, went to your link, but I don't see a Town Hall section...?
QUESTIONS FOR THE TOWN HALL MEETING
JANUARY 21, 2014


What is the status on the Colony Blvd. traffic problem? What is the final decision of the LSLCDD. Will Community Watch continue to direct traffic there?

Janet Tutt (JT): Project Wide Advisory Committee has approved the traffic light and is in the process of preparing the documents which will be out for bid by the beginning of February. The lowest qualifying bid will be used. The light should be installed before the summer heat.


On Morse Blvd. South when turning left onto Colony Blvd., the bushes make it hard to see traffic coming from 466A. These should be trimmed.

JT: The bushes have been trimmed. They can’t be trimmed too much at one time or it will cause harm to the plant. We will continue to trim until the sight issues are resolved.


During the holidays and even more recently there were petty thefts in the Rio Grande Courtyard Villas as well as the Haciendas at Mission Hills. The stolen decorations were thrown away in the street or in the case of Mission Hills, they were taken to the nearby park and thrown in the water. What should be done if this sort of thing continues?

JT: Lt. Wolfe stated that the Sheriff’s Department is continuing to investigate. He urges vigilance and says we should call 911 or Community Watch should there be any concerns or if you observe something suspicious.


At the Villa San Miguel there is a gentleman who appears to lack social skills and who annoys people, especially ladies. His home is also in serious disarray with windows covered by newspaper and rear of property looking more like a landfill. What should the residents do? Is this a deed compliance problem?

JT: Deed compliance is very familiar with this gentleman. There have been many complaints about his yard and all have been investigated. The District cannot address the inside of the house, because it is private property. Those who are afraid should call 911 every time there is an incident. Sumter County Health Dept. might be able to address this if it appears that there is a possible health code violation.


The shingle problem will be addressed by Owens Corning. They know which homes need repair and they will approach the homeowners. No one needs to do anything. Is this correct?

Bill Gottschalk: Bill addressed this himself. Yes, it is correct for granulating shingles. Owens-Corning will notify those that have issues. If you still have concerns you may call Owens-Corning. New information will be on the VHA Website and in the Villages Voice. Owens-Corning estimates that the whole project may take as long as 3-4 months. Do NOT hire another company to fix this. Owens-Corning will take care of it.
Dr. Gary Lester (GL): Kudos to the VHA for helping to resolve this. VHA got involved and helped solve the problem.


The polo field sound system problem isn’t solved yet. Is it still being worked on?

Bill Gottschalk: Some changes have been made to the placement of the speakers. Wind direction actually has an effect on how loud the speakers can sound. This project has not been forgotten. For now, Polo season is over. But the concern will continue to be addressed when the matches begin again.


What is the status of the new Village of Fruitland Park? How will it be set up? Will it be called District 11?

GL: Yes, it will be called District 11, and will be residential just like the rest of the Villages. This project is moving along well.


Why is the Church on the Square being modified to be an entertainment center? Wouldn’t it have been cheaper and provided more space to remodel the SavannahCenter? Wouldn’t that provide more seating?

GL: Addressing both #8 and #18: These two places are like apples and oranges. The Church on the Square belongs to the Developer; SavannahCenter belongs to the District. Uses for the future of the Church are still undetermined at this time. Watch the Daily Sun and the Voice to keep up with what is happening. Parking is more than adequate for the Church according to code, even though all the parking may not be right next to it.
JT: When the AAC looked at expanding SavannahCenter, they found that there was NOT enough parking to accommodate a large increase of seats.


There is a good bit of traffic noise on Morse Blvd. along with speeding, boom boxes, etc. Do we have a noise ordinance? What about the police? Could they patrol there more often?

JT: This question was given to law enforcement. The Districts have no responsibility because these are county roads. Lt. Wolfe provided a copy of the SumterCounty noise ordinance.


At the South Morse gate at County Road 466 the left turn that golf carts must make across traffic there is terribly dangerous. Why couldn’t the golf carts be directed to go through the gate in the left lane and turn into the HopeLutheranChurch driveway? That’s where the carts used to turn long ago until the sign was moved saying no carts beyond this point.

JT: Logistically, if you think of the danger of having golf carts cross the traffic coming into the Morse gate before they have to slow down for the gate, this is NOT safer. Crossing behind the gate at least ensures that the incoming traffic is moving at a slower speed. This is a county road and the issue should be taken up with SumterCounty.


There is a tremendous turnover of restaurants in The Villages. What could be the cause of that? There is a rumor that the rents are too high. What is the actual problem?

GL: Not quite sure how to address this. There are 101 restaurants in The Villages. The average failure rate in the country is 50% in 3 years. This is not a tremendous turnover! If we were average, then 50 restaurants would have closed in the last 3 years. Only 9 in The Villages closed in the last 3 years, and 8 new ones opened in 2013 alone! If the rents are too high, then why do more restaurants open and why are they so very busy?


People throw their dog waste bags in the sewers. The bags then end up in the ponds. Shouldn’t they be thrown in the trash? What can be done about that?

JT: People must take responsibility for their pets! We should talk to our neighbors about it. Everyone has a personal responsibility to care for their pets’ waste. It’s part of pet ownership.


Why are there no painted crosswalks on Morse Blvd.?

JT: This is a SumterCounty issue. Ms. Tutt spoke to Bradley Arnold of SumterCounty and he said that the county does not want to encourage the crossing of these heavily traveled roads.


Why can’t the executive golf shacks fly the American flag every day instead of only on certain days?

JT: They could. It was designed that the regional recreation centers would have flags. There are logistical issues involved in raising and lowering the flag daily along with the deterioration of the fabric of the flags themselves.


When will they really take action on golf carts and cars that park in unauthorized places on Lake Sumter Landing? The red warning letter does no good-people just throw them away.

JT: Many cart owners have received verbal warnings in addition to the flyers and most have not repeated the act. Most of the carts that must be tagged with the red warnings are new offenders, not repeaters.


What can be done about the people who remove the license plate from their street legal golf carts and now drive way too fast on the golf cart paths?

JT: If they get caught on the road cart paths they will have problems. The sheriff’s office has been cracking down on speeders and stop sign runners, whether this is an 8-sided stop sign or a bollard.


Can the sidewalk across the bridge on Morse Blvd. be narrowed by a foot to add width to the golf cart lanes? No one observes the 10-mph speed limit and it is very dangerous.

JT: This has been dealt with before. It has been found that if you obey the 10 mph speed limit, then the size of the bridge is adequate. If you widen it, then people will go even faster, making it dangerous again and so on endlessly. Staff will request the Sheriff’s office to place the electronic speed machine which may help residents determine speed.


What’s the plan for future use of the Church on the Square? Will it ever be used as a church again?

This was addressed by Dr. Lester earlier with question #9.


Oncoming golf carts with bright lights make it difficult to see where you are going at night on Buena Vista Blvd. Could reflectors be installed on the golf cart paths to help with that? (Example: Traveling up Buena Vista north from Southern Trace to Piedmont and beyond, carts with bright lights approaching make it difficult seeing.)

JT: Combining #19 with #22: We have never had a head-on collision even when the paths were narrower. The engineer’s report suggests not to place the lines as they are multimodal paths. Lines down the center make these multimodal paths create an appearance and perception they are paths for carts. Our side streets don’t have lines. Lines attract the eyes and are used to guide people down the center. Drivers will look to the center more often and will tend to drive toward it, increasing the possibility of collisions. Members of the Project Wide Advisory Committee have indicated that they will address this at their February meeting and are exploring an alternative that may be beneficial. Consistency throughout The Villages is best.
Lights on most golf carts are fixed and cannot be moved to aim differently. Reflectors are placed on the golf cart paths where necessary, and residents are urged to advise if there is a curve or obstruction that creates a safety issue so they can be addressed. We have done so extensively south of CR466 and urge residents to inform us of specific locations.


Could the local radio station be streamed to the internet so we can listen through our computers?

GL: This has been looked at, but it is not cost effective. The radio stations would have to pay additional royalties every time they would play a song for example.


Recreation centers should have both regular garbage containers and containers for recyclables. People throw it all in together and that isn’t right.

JT: This has been tried and it failed. People didn’t separate the refuse.


Lane markers should be installed on all multimodal paths for increased safety.

Ms. Tutt addressed this along with # 19.


Residents have expressed an interest in community gardens. Could some land be set aside for community gardens?

JT: Open spaces are part of The Villages beauty and aesthetics. It would involve very complicated logistical issues to try to do this. What happens if the project fails later? Suppose one or two residents don’t tend their plot. What happens to the rest of them and how does that affect the beauty and aesthetics?
GL: Shared Harvest is a wonderful project that helps 10 different charities. People volunteer to raise vegetables on land by the woodworking shop on Rolling Acres Road. The food is distributed to 7 different food pantries.


The Villages media group VNN TV only available on Comcast leaves a large percentage of viewers without service. Over 70 percent of Villa residents in my area have switched from Comcast to other sources of cable or satellite communication providers. Century link being the largest. Has the media group tried to enter into a contract with Century link to provide the VNN TV channel to subscribers of their service?

GL: VNN is currently obligated by contract to Comcast but will be reviewing the situation when that agreement expires.


Shrubbery is being used by a resident on Talisman Court in the new southern area of the Villages to create a privacy fence. There has been work done already to deal with the situation, but it has not been completely corrected. What else can be done?

JT: The numbered district boards provide the interpretation of the deed restrictions and if there is a request to change, work with staff or present to your District Supervisors.

[CFrance]

QUESTIONS FOR THE TOWN HALL MEETING
JANUARY 21, 2014


What is the status on the Colony Blvd. traffic problem? What is the final decision of the LSLCDD. Will Community Watch continue to direct traffic there?

Janet Tutt (JT): Project Wide Advisory Committee has approved the traffic light and is in the process of preparing the documents which will be out for bid by the beginning of February. The lowest qualifying bid will be used. The light should be installed before the summer heat.

(Clipped)



Thanks, I was looking for a section heading at the top of the web site. I was being too literal again.:doh:

[gomoho]

The fact that one is capable of seeing the good, the bad and the ugly does not mean they don't love living here. Some are more realistic than others and wish to confront an issue head on rather than burying their head in the sand.

[graciegirl]

The fact that one is capable of seeing the good, the bad and the ugly does not mean they don't love living here. Some are more realistic than others and wish to confront an issue head on rather than burying their head in the sand.



I very much agree with you, but probably the reason we vote for candidates is that they know how to couch the good, the bad and the ugly in diplomatic terms. You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. The POA stands for the homeowners but needs a new journalist, in my very humble opinion.

[CFrance]

The fact that one is capable of seeing the good, the bad and the ugly does not mean they don't love living here. Some are more realistic than others and wish to confront an issue head on rather than burying their head in the sand.
Agree. I don't like the "If you don't like something, move" sentiment. I prefer the "If you don't like something, help it improve" theory.

I did read the Town Hall section of the VHA. My thought is that some of their answers are evasive. Maybe the POA comes on a little too strong at times, but I think there is a need to have them be a strong presence in TV. The OC shingles issue is a good example of that. JT's answer to the shingles question left a lot out, such as the fact that OC will now no longer pay for replacing the shingles.

[graciegirl]

Agree. I don't like the "If you don't like something, move" sentiment. I prefer the "If you don't like something, help it improve" theory.

I did read the Town Hall section of the VHA. My thought is that some of their answers are evasive. Maybe the POA comes on a little too strong at times, but I think there is a need to have them be a strong presence in TV. The OC shingles issue is a good example of that. JT's answer to the shingles question left a lot out, such as the fact that OC will now no longer pay for replacing the shingles.



It is hearing sometimes differing opinions from people that I trust and respect on this forum that sometimes makes me rethink my position.


I have listened now to several of you who I completely look up to and I wlll keep an open mind about the POA's bulletin..


You are right. It did appear as if Owens Corning is still fixing roofs on their dime as reported in The Village Voice. I will contact Owens Corning and ask.


I am old and stubborn but not completely unworkable. I like a presentation of facts without rancor. It works better for me.

[CFrance]

It is hearing sometimes differing opinions from people that I trust and respect on this forum that sometimes makes me rethink my position.


I have listened now to several of you who I completely look up to and I wlll keep an open mind about the POA's bulletin..


You are right. It did appear as if Owens Corning is still fixing roofs on their dime as reported in The Village Voice. I will contact Owens Corning and ask.


I am old and stubborn but not completely unworkable. I like a presentation of facts without rancor. It works better for me.

You are young at heart and not stubborn, that's for sure.:wave: I do think we need both associations, and our family supports them both. But I lean toward the POA to dig for facts when the powers that be become a little evasive. JMO

[Nipper]

Could be that the POA appears negative because everyone runs the the POA when there is a serious problem or they need help with an issue they cannot get resolved any other way.

At least they will address the tough issues and we would all be in trouble if there was nowhere to get help when needed and were left to the mercy of the developer.

Checks and balances are all important. It should not have taken a lawsuit to get the funds added to the amenity funds but since it did it speaks volumes and shows there is a true need for the POA.

Just read the VHA newsletter tonight and everything brought up was pushed off as being the responsibility of the Sumter road department with no offer to work with them to get anything done about anything. What good is that?

You don't have to not love to live here to be able see a problem when one develops and be willing to address it. No place is perfect including the Villages. It's no one's right to ask anyone why they want to live here as long as they pay the price required to do so. Don't like the POA, don't read their bulletin.

Why would anyone want to write a negative post bashing the POA and complaining about the POA being negative??


Great post. I think it's important to know what's really going on in TV. You will certainly not get it from the Daily Sun. What's so negative about printing the truth about golf cart accidents or faulty shingles? The campaign for seat belts in golf carts is a public service. I now have them in my golf cart because of the POA articles.

[justjim]

If anything they are saying about shingles, lawsuits, insurance, etc. is untrue, then the POA should be taken to task for it. If what they say is true, then we have a right as informed citizens to know it.
As for the golf cart accidents, clearly they are trying to encourage all of us to install and use seat belts in order to save lives. I agree with that.

I agree the POA is pushing safety belts and that is okay by me. Again, Iam repeating myself (but so are others) I like "check and balances". The VHA and Daily Sun rarely present the "other side" of anything so to me it's good to get the "other story"---Wheather you agree or disagree.

Safety belts may be something all can agree is an okay thing. Making them mandatory is another story.

[ilovetv]

Seeing the comments above, I did not communicate my point well at all.

I would be the first to agree, and have done so dozens of times on this board, that the matters of cart seat belts needed because of ejections, and the other issues on the front page NEED to be discussed and published. I'm not a sugar-coater at all and certainly don't bury my head in the sand as some accused.

What upset me looking at the front page was its tabloid, sensationalized layout. I said it before and I'll say it here:

They are scaring newcomers and new buyers into thinking they bought into a really sleazy operation. And that is NOT the case.

It's the print layout....giant print, red print underscored, and front-page billing that says "the sky is falling.....the sky is falling"....

[Bogie Shooter]

Seeing the comments above, I did not communicate my point well at all.

I would be the first to agree, and have done so dozens of times on this board, that the matters of cart seat belts needed because of ejections, and the other issues on the front page NEED to be discussed and published. I'm not a sugar-coater at all and certainly don't bury my head in the sand as some accused.

What upset me looking at the front page was its tabloid, sensationalized layout. I said it before and I'll say it here:

They are scaring newcomers and new buyers into thinking they bought into a really sleazy operation. And that is NOT the case.

It's the print layout....giant print, red print underscored, and front-page billing that says "the sky is falling.....the sky is falling"....

My first impression as well.

[OBXNana]

What's POA? I did a search on this site and nothing was returned.

[Bogie Shooter]

What's POA? I did a search on this site and nothing was returned.

Property Owners, Association of Florida (http://www.poa4us.org/)

[Wing-nut2]

How many new comers really see the POA (unless they renting)? I would think many more people would read about these things on this board.

Now, the "tone" of the stories is something else. Many papers are sensationalized on the front page to sell papers and get you attention.

[mickey100]

Could be that the POA appears negative because everyone runs the the POA when there is a serious problem or they need help with an issue they cannot get resolved any other way.

At least they will address the tough issues and we would all be in trouble if there was nowhere to get help when needed and were left to the mercy of the developer.

Checks and balances are all important. It should not have taken a lawsuit to get the funds added to the amenity funds but since it did it speaks volumes and shows there is a true need for the POA.

Just read the VHA newsletter tonight and everything brought up was pushed off as being the responsibility of the Sumter road department with no offer to work with them to get anything done about anything. What good is that?

You don't have to not love to live here to be able see a problem when one develops and be willing to address it. No place is perfect including the Villages. It's no one's right to ask anyone why they want to live here as long as they pay the price required to do so. Don't like the POA, don't read their bulletin.

Why would anyone want to write a negative post bashing the POA and complaining about the POA being negative??

Well said.

[ROCKETMAN]

There are some people who beleive morse can do no wrong, well maybe puting up a brick wall at 2am so our own citizens couldn't get home from their jobs was just an oversight i guess. The poa has saved residents millions of dollars and just reports the truth. The hoa has lots of useless info if you have been a resident for a while. Their next meeting will address the insurence liability if you injure someone else. You may get a letter from morgan and morgan so it should be a good meeting.

[graciegirl]

I can't see why anyone would try to put down Gary Morse.

[ilovetv]

How many new comers really see the POA (unless they renting)? I would think many more people would read about these things on this board.

Now, the "tone" of the stories is something else. Many papers are sensationalized on the front page to sell papers and get you attention.

How many newcomers and new buyers really see the POA? ALL of them see it, because it is dropped in all driveways!!

If I see a supermarket tabloid cover full of "reporting" that is out to trash somebody well-known, I don't have to buy that rag. But with the POA Bulletin, it just shows up in our driveway, unrequested.

Here's what they say on Page 3 of the current issue linked below:

"We put a Bulletin on almost every drive-way in The Villages every month at a cost of $105,000 per year."

Clearly, they want all newcomers and new buyers to see and adopt their continued outcry against their villain, the developer, even when he's done and continues to do the corrective measures they sued him for, and the improvements are made.

While the POA's positions on issues are usually accurate, I do not agree with the tactics used, to scare people into thinking they bought into something sleezy and sinister, when buying a place here and moving is more than stressful enough.

http://poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201402.pdf

[villagerjack]

The VHA and Mr Gottschalk have not handled the issue of problem roofs in a proper way. They have minimized the problem and failed to notify homeowners when they learned of the damaged material, which extends way beyond their definition of isolated cases. They and the Warranty Dept. seem to be in bed with Owens Corning and many Homeowners were given the short Shrift and are stuck with damaged roofs which OC will not fix. Without the help of the POA threatening a Class Action lawsuit, homeowners will be out the cost of a new roof. The article explains it well and while some of the info in this paper may be perceived as negative, if you were one of the affected homeowners you may feel different.

[rdhdleo]

Let me get this straight some folks here believe the raison deter for organizing the POA was solely because they desired to spew negativity and hatred toward the Developer...that's your position. You cite as evidence negative stories such as golf Cart accident stats, continuation of the facts surrounding the amenity lawsuit, et al.

Those of you who do might take time to go back on the history of why the POA was organized and follow through to present day rather than take comfort in your confirmation bias because the POA saved your bacon more than once. The POA attempted several times to work with both the Developer and the VHA and their attempts were directed out of hand. Why because the Developer knew they would work to keep him to satisify the promises he made and to honor his responsibilities.

In essence the POA was an invention made out of necessity

If you believe that the aforementioned headlines cited by the OP are negative for the sake of negativity then those with that thought ought not to read a single newspaper, watch a single TV news program or listen to a single radio news broadcast because if golf Cart Accident statistics get your goat what is happening to you with some of the political and economic headlines for the last 10 years. Are those stories negatively created by their writers for the sake of negativity?

I find it incredulous that people have this perception of the POA and feel badly for those in leadership at the POA who have worked so hard on residents behalf only to be besmirched, ridiculed and unfairly judged.

I have been in disagreement with some issues handled by the POA but at least they cared enough to attempt a resolution

Well said, could not agree more!!! :bigbow::agree:

[LndLocked]

I can't see why anyone would try to put down Gary Morse.

I can see why anyone would think that any human was omnipotent and beyond error.

[ROCKETMAN]

Some people do beleive that morse can't do anything wrong Most things he does are good for all the residents but this place is large and complex and some decisions made boggle the mind.

[justjim]

I can't see why anyone would try to put down Gary Morse.

I don't like that man, I must get to know him better. Abraham Lincoln

[graciegirl]

I can see why anyone would think that any human was omnipotent and beyond error.


I don't. But I also have a real problem with an entire group of people who think that being successful and becoming rich automatically makes you a bad person. This is the first time in my life that I have run into that attitude and I think it is just as wrong as thinking that all poor people are lazy.


I don't know Gary Morse at all but he is a couple of years older than me and by damn the man is a genius and he could have made a heck of a lot more money off of us if he was as suspect as some think he is.


I see a lot more evidence that he is an American success story and he certainly has built a place on this earth like no one has ever seen before.


Count your money, Gary, You deserve every last penny.


I am really. really, really angry.

[HMLRHT1]

GracieGirl, ur usually right about a lot of things but I don't think anyone is going after Gary Morse on a personal level. He has done a lot of good things. But just as Ford or HP as an example, make a faulty product, they get blamed for it. It's human nature. Now Ford and HP have to make good on their promises and so should Gary Morse as the developer.

[twinklesweep]

.... As for the golf cart accidents, clearly they are trying to encourage all of us to install and use seat belts in order to save lives. I agree with that.

Those few who want seat belts on their golf carts can get them, no problem.

Don't try to force them on the rest of us.

Huh? How could "encourage all of us to install and use seats belts" possibly be construed to mean "force them on the rest of us"? Seems like an extreme leap to me.

I once saw a woman driving a golf cart with one hand and carrying an infant against her chest with the other. Well, there's nothing to stop her from doing so, right?...


It seems that I read a lot on here that it would be beneficial for cart and Car accidents to be reported, robberies be reported, burglaries be reported, mugging be reported and any crime be reported. We want to know what's going on with those faulty roofs and other news worthy stories. Now that the POA has reported some such incidents everyone is ticked off. You complained about the "Happy Paper" not reporting anything negative and now that negative information is reported you are mad. I think there are some people that can't be pleased. You don't have to candy coat negative news. It seems that some want that to happen. Bad news is bad news. You either want to read about it or you don't. I appreciate the up front tone of this last POA. It told it like it is....like it or not.

And I for one agree, so it is not true that "everyone is ticked off"; many of us appreciate not just the positive but the negative as well about the community we live in. I especially agree with the bolded/underscored statement in the quote above (my emphasis). And I am not a present or past officer of the POA; in fact, I'm not even a member.

[twinklesweep]

So just because you are successful and rich, that means no one is allowed to call him on some questionable decisions he has made. Maybe people under him made some of the choices, but like obama always says, the buck stops with me or was that hillary.

Actually it was Harry S Truman who said, "The buck stops here!" His meaning was that as president, the ultimate responsibility was his. How's that for refreshing?...

[twinklesweep]

....I also have a real problem with an entire group of people who think that being successful and becoming rich automatically makes you a bad person....

I must have missed something (bolded/underscored emphasis above mine): "entire group of people"? "automatically"?

[villagerjack]

I am the last one to attack the Morse family because they built a place unlike any other. It is a great success story. I love The Villages. That said, errors will be made, The most recent involves defective roofs. The builder contracted with Owens Corning for roofing material on tens of thousands of homes. A good portion have defective material ranging from granular loss from 2007 on, and blistering prior to 2007. These are not isolated cases. There are thousands of defective roofs. As you ride around you can see many roofing jobs in progress. Here is my beef. The Warranty Dept and the VHA knew about all these problems but failed to notify homeowners. When it surfaced, they took care of some homeowners but not all homeowners who were affected. Now they are pursuing " isolated cases" of roofs with granular loss. Those with blistering problems are not being pursued. My roof has the blistering problem acknowledged by Owens Corning who offered to give me new roofing material but will not pay labor to remove the defective roof or install a new one. VHA and Gottschalk basically said to suck wind. They will not pursue this matter for me even though it is recognized that they sold me a home with a defective roof. They are only pursuing certain roofs with granular loss and only when the homeowner contacts them. My only recourse is to obtain a lawyer which would be costly or go to the POA who is aggressively pursuing this injustice and in the end another Class Action suit may be necessary. The POA hopes that the builder will do the right thing and cover the cost of the new roofs. I do not consider this to be a personal attack on the Morse Family but if some others do then , so be it. Citing these instances and attacking the POA is just as wrong as attacking Mr. Morse. Because of the way this has been mishandled by the Warranty Dept and the VHA, I am probably madder than Gracie, but at least she does not have a defective roof, at least I think she doesn't.

[OBXNana]

property owners, association of florida (http://www.poa4us.org/)

thanks!

[LndLocked]

I don't. But I also have a real problem with an entire group of people who think that being successful and becoming rich automatically makes you a bad person. This is the first time in my life that I have run into that attitude and I think it is just as wrong as thinking that all poor people are lazy.


I don't know Gary Morse at all but he is a couple of years older than me and by damn the man is a genius and he could have made a heck of a lot more money off of us if he was as suspect as some think he is.


I see a lot more evidence that he is an American success story and he certainly has built a place on this earth like no one has ever seen before.


Count your money, Gary, You deserve every last penny.


I am really. really, really angry.

First ... my posting should have read ... "I can't see why anyone would think that any human was omnipotent and beyond error."

Not sure if that would have made any difference in your response but I suspect not.

I reread each and every posting in this thread and fail to see anything posted by any one (including myself) that even begins to approach "an entire group of people who think that being successful and becoming rich automatically makes you a bad person."

While you and I disagree on the level of Gary Morse's "genius" ( I don't think that he reinvented the developer wheel, but he did do a brilliant job of identifying a market / demographic who could afford his product both in boom & bust market conditions), I do not begrudge him his success.

[ilovetv]

I am the last one to attack the Morse family because they built a place unlike any other. It is a great success story. I love The Villages. That said, errors will be made, The most recent involves defective roofs. The builder contracted with Owens Corning for roofing material on tens of thousands of homes. A good portion have defective material ranging from granular loss from 2007 on, and blistering prior to 2007. These are not isolated cases. There are thousands of defective roofs. As you ride around you can see many roofing jobs in progress. Here is my beef. The Warranty Dept and the VHA knew about all these problems but failed to notify homeowners. When it surfaced, they took care of some homeowners but not all homeowners who were affected. Now they are pursuing " isolated cases" of roofs with granular loss. Those with blistering problems are not being pursued. My roof has the blistering problem acknowledged by Owens Corning who offered to give me new roofing material but will not pay labor to remove the defective roof or install a new one. VHA and Gottschalk basically said to suck wind. They will not pursue this matter for me even though it is recognized that they sold me a home with a defective roof. They are only pursuing certain roofs with granular loss and only when the homeowner contacts them. My only recourse is to obtain a lawyer which would be costly or go to the POA who is aggressively pursuing this injustice and in the end another Class Action suit may be necessary. The POA hopes that the builder will do the right thing and cover the cost of the new roofs. I do not consider this to be a personal attack on the Morse Family but if some others do then , so be it. Citing these instances and attacking the POA is just as wrong as attacking Mr. Morse. Because of the way this has been mishandled by the Warranty Dept and the VHA, I am probably madder than Gracie, but at least she does not have a defective roof, at least I think she doesn't.

While pursuing a class action suit seems like what is needed, it would drag on for years and years, with lawyers on both sides getting paid, while you sit with a roof full of bad shingles and ceiling leakage waiting to happen.

I would immediately file a small claims court action, with no need for an attorney on your part. Heads roll when the defendant companies have to send in their lawyers that quickly cost more money than the actual claim (roofing labor costs) is worth.

Here's Sumter County's web page on that:
Small Claims - Sumter County Clerk of the Courts (http://www.sumterclerk.com/index.cfm/small-claims)

[eweissenbach]

How did this become about Gary Morse? The Villages is designed, developed, built and managed by a complex array of corporations owned, controlled, or influenced by the Morse family. The day to day decisions are made by Gary Morse's children and other officers of the various corporations. While I am sure that GM has veto power, he is not like the Wizard of Oz, controlling all that happens in TV. That said like most corporations, they make decisions designed to further the aims of the company and make profits, which may or may not be in the best interest of all residents. That is where the POA comes in, to be the watchdog for the benefit of the residents. Why anyone not connected with the Morse corporations would want to see the POA go away, or be quiet, is beyond me. If some of their rhetoric is harsh so be it, go to the meetings and register your displeasure, but keep in mind they are your ombudsmen. While the Scwartz/Morse clan has created a retirement Mecca like no other, they have not done it out of altruism, and have and will continue to make mistakes.

[rdhdleo]

How did this become about Gary Morse? The Villages is designed, developed, built and managed by a complex array of corporations owned, controlled, or influenced by the Morse family. The day to day decisions are made by Gary Morse's children and other officers of the various corporations. While I am sure that GM has veto power, he is not like the Wizard of Oz, controlling all that happens in TV. That said like most corporations, they make decisions designed to further the aims of the company and make profits, which may or may not be in the best interest of all residents. That is where the POA comes in, to be the watchdog for the benefit of the residents. Why anyone not connected with the Morse corporations would want to see the POA go away, or be quiet, is beyond me. If some of their rhetoric is harsh so be it, go to the meetings and register your displeasure, but keep in mind they are your ombudsmen. While the Scwartz/Morse clan has created a retirement Mecca like no other, they have not done it out of altruism, and have and will continue to make mistakes.

Excellent!!! Very well said.

[villagerjack]

While pursuing a class action suit seems like what is needed, it would drag on for years and years, with lawyers on both sides getting paid, while you sit with a roof full of bad shingles and ceiling leakage waiting to happen.

I would immediately file a small claims court action, with no need for an attorney on your part. Heads roll when the defendant companies have to send in their lawyers that quickly cost more money than the actual claim (roofing labor costs) is worth.

Here's Sumter County's web page on that:
Small Claims - Sumter County Clerk of the Courts (http://www.sumterclerk.com/index.cfm/small-claims)


Thank you. I am considering that a a course of action. Appreciate your comment.

[twinklesweep]

While pursuing a class action suit seems like what is needed, it would drag on for years and years, with lawyers on both sides getting paid, while you sit with a roof full of bad shingles and ceiling leakage waiting to happen.

I would immediately file a small claims court action, with no need for an attorney on your part. Heads roll when the defendant companies have to send in their lawyers that quickly cost more money than the actual claim (roofing labor costs) is worth.

Here's Sumter County's web page on that:
Small Claims - Sumter County Clerk of the Courts (http://www.sumterclerk.com/index.cfm/small-claims)

I have experienced the effectiveness of using Small Claims Court up north; by and large it was simple, cost effective (very small filing fee), and best of all successful. In one instance, an attorney became so interested in the case that she took it on based solely on a percentage settlement, so again I had no legal fees to pay upfront; they came out of the settlement.

Before undertaking a class action suit, which can be costly and, as pointed out, can drag on for years, the roofing problems ARE the issue of individuals (as opposed to a collective problem). If enough individuals file small claims, it could provoke Owens Corning to accept its responsibility, since from what I've read here it appears that the relevant departments in TV are not standing behind the residents, even though TV sold the homes with the defective roofs.

[PennBF]

It is sad that an Organization that is totally managed by Volunteers in the The Villages get so little appreciation from "some" of the residents. To clarify some of the assertions in some comments. How many know the POA was awarded $40M in a law suit because The Villages Management ignored the fact that a Rec Center was falling apart and when it came time to fix it The Village management said money had not been set aside to take care of it the Property. THe courts did not award $40M for being innocent! Is it "negative" to remind the residents of history so they do not live it again. The best prediction of the future is the history of the past. When it comes to being negative to remind the residents of the high number of Golf Cart accidents it is a classic case of not wanting to hear the bad news and risks! We have over 40,000 carts in TV's and should be aware of the problems. Why not report them for awarness? Is it negative to remind all of the dangers of ignoring cart safety. I think not. Oh yea, THE SHINGLES. We happen to be one of those who had bad shingles and Owens Corning said they would pay the 35-40% costs of the shingles and we would have to pay the 60% of the costs of labor to remove and replace them. Is it fair to report that a Contractor signed by TV's shipped, installed a defective product and passed on about 60% of the cost to repair the bad product to the home owner? Why does anyone want this stuffed under the rug other than those who don't care about the ones who are being abused.? Regarding the coment that the Developer is not responsible for what happens in the villages..Just plain not true since all key Management is the result of thier appointment. Not fiction..Just true. There is a host of other comments we would like to make but those that have decided the facts are to be hidden if they are negative will most likely not change their minds. One point to close. Does everyone relaize that the Warranty Dept of The Villages had records which pointed out the shingles which were suspect and could have notified the appropriate resident but elected to not
tell anyone and only react if a resident called. As a result quite a few could not meet the Warranty period requirement. Guess this is a negative and should not be mentioned? YOU GO POA..KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND DON'T BE DISCOURAGED BY NAY SAYERS.!!::crap2:

[duffysmom]

How did this become about Gary Morse? The Villages is designed, developed, built and managed by a complex array of corporations owned, controlled, or influenced by the Morse family. The day to day decisions are made by Gary Morse's children and other officers of the various corporations. While I am sure that GM has veto power, he is not like the Wizard of Oz, controlling all that happens in TV. That said like most corporations, they make decisions designed to further the aims of the company and make profits, which may or may not be in the best interest of all residents. That is where the POA comes in, to be the watchdog for the benefit of the residents. Why anyone not connected with the Morse corporations would want to see the POA go away, or be quiet, is beyond me. If some of their rhetoric is harsh so be it, go to the meetings and register your displeasure, but keep in mind they are your ombudsmen. While the Scwartz/Morse clan has created a retirement Mecca like no other, they have not done it out of altruism, and have and will continue to make mistakes.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Beautifully said as well as fair and balanced.

[justjim]

I believe everyone has had their say----some excellent observations and informed opinions and some not so much! The POA is what it is and the VHA is what it is----checks and balances.

[ilovetv]

I have experienced the effectiveness of using Small Claims Court up north; by and large it was simple, cost effective (very small filing fee), and best of all successful. In one instance, an attorney became so interested in the case that she took it on based solely on a percentage settlement, so again I had no legal fees to pay upfront; they came out of the settlement.

Before undertaking a class action suit, which can be costly and, as pointed out, can drag on for years, the roofing problems ARE the issue of individuals (as opposed to a collective problem). If enough individuals file small claims, it could provoke Owens Corning to accept its responsibility, since from what I've read here it appears that the relevant departments in TV are not standing behind the residents, even though TV sold the homes with the defective roofs.

It's interesting that, of all the lawyers advising, leading and defending the POA members and residents in the settled lawsuit and on current issues, none of these lawyers has apparently advised roof owners to use the less expensive "people's court" option of Small Claims Court actions they could file without a lawyer's fees. But then, the lawyers' past and future legal fee potential would be much less if all individual homeowners took their own roofing cases en masse to "the people's court".

"A Small Claims case is a legal action filed in county court to settle minor legal disputes among parties where the dollar amount involved is $5,000 or less, excluding costs, interest, and attorney fees. Because Small Claims court is considered a "people's court," it is not necessary to have an attorney to file a claim. Forms to file a small claims case are available at the County Civil Department at the Clerk's Office and here on our website. Attorneys are not precluded from this court, but are not required."
Small Claims - Sumter County Clerk of the Courts (http://www.sumterclerk.com/index.cfm/small-claims)

"...The case concluded last week in Lake County, where Circuit Judge Lawrence Semento approved a settlement agreement that requires the developer to pay about $40 million over the next 13 years to replenish accounts used to maintain facilities and pay pool monitors, after-hours golf ambassadors and Neighborhood Watch staff.

The settlement also requires the defendants to pay $50,000 each to Dreidame and four other named plaintiffs and $6.7 million to the plaintiffs' brother-sister legal team, Dougald McMillan and Carol McMillan Anderson."

Villages developer to pay $40 million for recreation upgrades to settle a lawsuit - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-03-09/news/lvillages09_1_villages-fees-lawyer)

[PennBF]

It should be added that yes Elaine + 4 others did receive $50K as part of the settlement. What was omitted was that (a) each of these person(s) put up the funds to file the suit and took the risk on behalf of the residents. (b) As a result of them taking the risk the residents won $40M to put the rec center back to what it should be and to perform other actions in support of the residents with the remaing funds, (e.g. redo carts paths, etc.etc.). How many residents were willing to use personal funds to support their neighbors with no assurance they would get their investments back. :wave:

[graciegirl]

///

[Advogado]

This month's POA Bulletin was on our counter, and I don't remember it standing out for being as negative--and even venomous--as this month's edition does.

In huge print the front-page headline reads: 2012-2013 Golf Cart Related Fatalities and Serious Injuries in The Villages

Then, underscored in a blue box above the fold it says in all caps: "Your https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/images/smilies/Screen_of_Death.gifLawsuit Settlement Dollars at Work".

Below that is "Owens Corning Defective Shingles Update"

Beside that is POA Meeting announcement with the topic in large print: "Sinkhole and Golf Cart Insurance Things You Need to Know".

And the ugliness goes on from there. Now. I'm not saying these are not valid topics nor that the Daily Fun is all one needs to read here.

What I keep asking myself about this group and editor is, "If TV is so terrible, why do they continue to LIVE here????"

To me it seems like they're looking for a new/different axe to grind. And the developer is always here to hate and loathe.

http://poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201402.pdf
Is there anything in the POA Bulletin that is untrue? If not, what is your complaint?

In most instances, the interests of the Developer and those of the residents coincide. However, when they do not, the Developer, has from time to time, tried to do some pretty outrageous things to the residents to further his own interests. Some of those things have been listed in several of the posts above, as well as in the latest POA Bulletin that you criticize. (I would add to that list the Developer's subsidization of his front organization, the VHA, in a partially successful attempt to weaken the POA.) In the situations where the Developer has behaved badly, we have been very fortunate to have the POA. To deny that fact is to shut ones eyes to the reality of the history of this place.

We may also have a real need for the POA in the not-too-distant future. Ask yourself what happens to our amenity system if the IRS prevails in its dispute with the Center Districts/Developer or we have a huge increase in the minimum wage, as is being proposed in Congress. If either possibility materializes, there would be a real risk to the continued financial viability of the amenity system, and somebody (the Developer or the residents) is going to have to make up the shortfall to keep the system going. In that case, we will count ourselves lucky to have the POA to represent our interests. In fact, we will have no one else to do so.

[Warren Kiefer]

This month's POA Bulletin was on our counter, and I don't remember it standing out for being as negative--and even venomous--as this month's edition does.

In huge print the front-page headline reads: 2012-2013 Golf Cart Related Fatalities and Serious Injuries in The Villages

Then, underscored in a blue box above the fold it says in all caps: "Your Lawsuit Settlement Dollars at Work".

Below that is "Owens Corning Defective Shingles Update"

Beside that is POA Meeting announcement with the topic in large print: "Sinkhole and Golf Cart Insurance Things You Need to Know".

And the ugliness goes on from there. Now. I'm not saying these are not valid topics nor that the Daily Fun is all one needs to read here.

What I keep asking myself about this group and editor is, "If TV is so terrible, why do they continue to LIVE here????"

To me it seems like they're looking for a new/different axe to grind. And the developer is always here to hate and loathe.

http://poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201402.pdf

These are very serious issues and we all benefitted by the POA playing a huge part in the solutions. It's not their axe to grind, it's yours and they are doing it for you. Do you kniow why the law suit even came about, and the resulting major improvements that have occured ??

[Warren Kiefer]

Let me get this straight some folks here believe the raison deter for organizing the POA was solely because they desired to spew negativity and hatred toward the Developer...that's your position. You cite as evidence negative stories such as golf Cart accident stats, continuation of the facts surrounding the amenity lawsuit, et al.

Those of you who do might take time to go back on the history of why the POA was organized and follow through to present day rather than take comfort in your confirmation bias because the POA saved your bacon more than once. The POA attempted several times to work with both the Developer and the VHA and their attempts were directed out of hand. Why because the Developer knew they would work to keep him to satisify the promises he made and to honor his responsibilities.

In essence the POA was an invention made out of necessity

If you believe that the aforementioned headlines cited by the OP are negative for the sake of negativity then those with that thought ought not to read a single newspaper, watch a single TV news program or listen to a single radio news broadcast because if golf Cart Accident statistics get your goat what is happening to you with some of the political and economic headlines for the last 10 years. Are those stories negatively created by their writers for the sake of negativity?

I find it incredulous that people have this perception of the POA and feel badly for those in leadership at the POA who have worked so hard on residents behalf only to be besmirched, ridiculed and unfairly judged.

I have been in disagreement with some issues handled by the POA but at least they cared enough to attempt a resolution

Rubicon, you have it exactly right. I bet those that are getting new roofs, AC lines, rec center upgrades, replaced siding and the such would not see much negative in the POA paper.

[Warren Kiefer]

I don't. But I also have a real problem with an entire group of people who think that being successful and becoming rich automatically makes you a bad person. This is the first time in my life that I have run into that attitude and I think it is just as wrong as thinking that all poor people are lazy.


I don't know Gary Morse at all but he is a couple of years older than me and by damn the man is a genius and he could have made a heck of a lot more money off of us if he was as suspect as some think he is.


I see a lot more evidence that he is an American success story and he certainly has built a place on this earth like no one has ever seen before.


Count your money, Gary, You deserve every last penny.


I am really. really, really angry.

You have blinded yourself to a couple of facts. The Villages was not built by a genius, he simply got the opportunity to use the CDD provisions to his benefit. You also should realize he is not the only person to build such a place. Disney was able to use the same CDD laws to build his empire. I will say that I actually saw Harold Schwartz in the community, I have never laid eyes on Gary Morse.

[ilovetv]

Is there anything in the POA Bulletin that is untrue? If not, what is your complaint?

In most instances, the interests of the Developer and those of the residents coincide. However, when they do not, the Developer, has from time to time, tried to do some pretty outrageous things to the residents to further his own interests. Some of those things have been listed in several of the posts above, as well as in the latest POA Bulletin that you criticize. (I would add to that list the Developer's subsidization of his front organization, the VHA, in a partially successful attempt to weaken the POA.) In the situations where the Developer has behaved badly, we have been very fortunate to have the POA. To deny that fact is to shut ones eyes to the reality of the history of this place.

We may also have a real need for the POA in the not-too-distant future. Ask yourself what happens to our amenity system if the IRS prevails in its dispute with the Center Districts/Developer or we have a huge increase in the minimum wage, as is being proposed in Congress. If either possibility materializes, there would be a real risk to the continued financial viability of the amenity system, and somebody (the Developer or the residents) is going to have to make up the shortfall to keep the system going. In that case, we will count ourselves lucky to have the POA to represent our interests. In fact, we will have no one else to do so.

If you had actually read all of my comments on this thread, you would have seen and realized that it was not the issues mentioned (about which I agree with the POA), but the "tabloid, sensationalized layout" that "is scaring newcomers and new buyers into thinking they made the worst mistake of their lives by buying/coming here".

Also, never once did I say the POA should not exist, nor that they were wrong in the class action lawsuit about rightly making the developer do what he was supposed to do for our community facilities. Nor did I ever say that lawyers and the leaders of the lawsuit filing should not be paid. I agree with the article I linked above from the time of the judges' decision, saying this was "a case of David against Goliath". I'd be the first to say "sometimes you have to fight fire with fire"......and sometimes you have to fight the big guys' lawyers with lawyers getting paid just as much.

I did, however, say that NOW, the lawyers for the POA are at least allowing--if not not promoting--the possibility of a class action suit for the homeowners' labor costs of re-roofing with Owens-Corning-provided new replacement shingles......when the individual homeowners could quickly and efficiently file a Small Claims action for these costs, without paying hefty lawyer fees and without waiting years to get relief.

Sometimes opponents purposely miss the point in order to promote theirs, and that has happened in this thread with some of the accusations made or implied about my posts.

[Bogie Shooter]

:boom:

[Easyrider]

If you had actually read all of my comments on this thread, you would have seen and realized that it was not the issues mentioned (about which I agree with the POA), but the "tabloid, sensationalized layout" that "is scaring newcomers and new buyers into thinking they made the worst mistake of their lives by buying/coming here".

Also, never once did I say the POA should not exist, nor that they were wrong in the class action lawsuit about rightly making the developer do what he was supposed to do for our community facilities. Nor did I ever say that lawyers and the leaders of the lawsuit filing should not be paid. I agree with the article I linked above from the time of the judges' decision, saying this was "a case of David against Goliath". I'd be the first to say "sometimes you have to fight fire with fire"......and sometimes you have to fight the big guys' lawyers with lawyers getting paid just as much.

I did, however, say that NOW, the lawyers for the POA are at least allowing--if not not promoting--the possibility of a class action suit for the homeowners' labor costs of re-roofing with Owens-Corning-provided new replacement shingles......when the individual homeowners could quickly and efficiently file a Small Claims action for these costs, without paying hefty lawyer fees and without waiting years to get relief.

Sometimes opponents purposely miss the point in order to promote theirs, and that has happened in this thread with some of the accusations made or implied about my posts.


QUOTE: Original Post

"What I keep asking myself about this group and editor is, "If TV is so terrible, why do they continue to LIVE here????"

To me it seems like they're looking for a new/different axe to grind. And the developer is always here to hate and loathe."



Sounds a little like the POA should not exist to me?

Always heard you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Trying to sugar coat the truth won't get a response from OC or any other matter where nothing is being done. Sometimes knowing the aggrieved party is willing to go to these lengths is what it takes to make the process move along. I would say if my roof or your roof was defective we would see things a lot differently.

As a new perspective resident I was more than happy to know there was an organization here looking out for the residents interests and I was directly helped by the extension of the AC line set warranty to 10 years. After all The Villages is just another big business selling it's product just like any other business. Sometimes businesses don't always follow the rules with which they agreed and someone has to remind them of that fact.

I would say the POA would be open to anyone's help if someone feels the need to do so. Complaining about the POA and bashing their practices here will likely not change a thing.

[twinklesweep]

It's interesting that, of all the lawyers advising, leading and defending the POA members and residents in the settled lawsuit and on current issues, none of these lawyers has apparently advised roof owners to use the less expensive "people's court" option of Small Claims Court actions they could file without a lawyer's fees. But then, the lawyers' past and future legal fee potential would be much less if all individual homeowners took their own roofing cases en masse to "the people's court".

"A Small Claims case is a legal action filed in county court to settle minor legal disputes among parties where the dollar amount involved is $5,000 or less, excluding costs, interest, and attorney fees. Because Small Claims court is considered a "people's court," it is not necessary to have an attorney to file a claim. Forms to file a small claims case are available at the County Civil Department at the Clerk's Office and here on our website. Attorneys are not precluded from this court, but are not required."
Small Claims - Sumter County Clerk of the Courts (http://www.sumterclerk.com/index.cfm/small-claims)

"...The case concluded last week in Lake County, where Circuit Judge Lawrence Semento approved a settlement agreement that requires the developer to pay about $40 million over the next 13 years to replenish accounts used to maintain facilities and pay pool monitors, after-hours golf ambassadors and Neighborhood Watch staff.

The settlement also requires the defendants to pay $50,000 each to Dreidame and four other named plaintiffs and $6.7 million to the plaintiffs' brother-sister legal team, Dougald McMillan and Carol McMillan Anderson."

Villages developer to pay $40 million for recreation upgrades to settle a lawsuit - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-03-09/news/lvillages09_1_villages-fees-lawyer)


These are two completely different situations. The $40 million settlement served "to replenish accounts used to maintain facilities and pay pool monitors, after-hours golf ambassadors and Neighborhood Watch staff." This lawsuit was based on collective issues that affected (and continued to affect) the community as a whole, as opposed to individual homeowners with individual construction issues. That the leadership of the POA who virtually made this lawsuit their lives for however long it took were paid a token out of the settlement, and likewise there is nothing inappropriate for the lawyers (who always do well no matter what...) to have been paid for their services.

The present Owens Corning issue affecting individual homeowners (as opposed to the entire community) might appear to lend itself better to a small claims approach. That the lawyers who were so successful using the class action suit approach are urging its use again is not out of line, however. Nothing succeeds like success, on top of which why should they not be concerned over their potential income? After all, they too are not doing public service work altruistically; I would doubt they have the same "deep pockets" as the developer (who has seen to it that the relevant Villages committees are not to be supportive of those affected homeowners). So, the lawyers' orientation is on class action suit.

This doesn't mean that collectively we property owners need to agree with this approach, considering the completely different nature of the issue. Those homeowners who are affected may wish to choose the class action route based on the success of the earlier suit, though they must keep in mind that the numbers of those involved will be much smaller than an entire community as was involved in the earlier one. On the other hand, those homeowners who individually are affected by the Owens Corning debacle who recognize the potential effectiveness of individual small claims filings are free to follow that route. It's already been made clear that shockingly there has been and likely will be no support from the relevant Villages departments who appear to be taking the side of Owens Corning while throwing the affected individual homeowners under the bus, so to speak.

So the end result is that it is up to the affected individual homeowners whether to consider coming together, with the support of the POA (and let's face it, support is not coming from any other quarter...), and file a class action suit, keeping in mind the success of the earlier one but also being aware that settling it might (would?) take a long time; or they can pursue individual small claims actions in Sumter County, perhaps choosing to coordinate their filings either simultaneously or spread out, deciding among themselves which strategy will take a greater toll on Owens Corning and thus hopefully provoke a settlement on the part of this company (that doesn't need the bad publicity either). Just because lawyers are not suggesting the small claims approach doesn't mean that it's not a potentially good one. After all, we aren't lemmings; we're quite capable of making our own choices!

[llaran]

Why is it bad to report golf cart accidents? they are highlighted, I think, because the Daily sun never reported them. Many people call the Daily Sun "The Happy Paper' Apperently the POA was/ is needed when there are items which need to be addressed and unfortunently pressure need to be applied ie, the vinyl siding issue or the Owens Corning roofing. At least if your siding was a problem you found you weren't alone.

[Madelaine Amee]

Well I saw this month's POA paper as a step up - I thought it looked very professional and I loved the addition of color.

I intensely dislike the use of the sentence: "If TV is so terrible, why do they continue to LIVE here????" It would appear to me that if one has an opinion which is the opposite of yours they should leave!

[ilovetv]

I intensely dislike the use of the sentence: "If TV is so terrible, why do they continue to LIVE here????" It would appear to me that if one has an opinion which is the opposite of yours they should leave!

I didn't say they should leave. I wonder why people want to live in a place they apparently see as a constant GRIND in need of lawyers to defend against a villain!

[Advogado]

Why is it bad to report golf cart accidents? they are highlighted, I think, because the Daily sun never reported them. Many people call the Daily Sun "The Happy Paper' Apperently the POA was/ is needed when there are items which need to be addressed and unfortunently pressure need to be applied ie, the vinyl siding issue or the Owens Corning roofing. At least if your siding was a problem you found you weren't alone.
Agree. In addition, the deterrent effect of the very existence of the POA has probably helped maintain a somewhat level playing field in dealings between the Developer and the residents. Furthermore, the POA Bulletin and now the ************** seem to have caused the Daily Sun to start reporting on important events that may detract from the Developer's sales image of The Villages-- for example: the IRS investigation (although the Daily Sun has yet to publish any kind of objective article about it), crime, and golf cart accidents.

[Warren Kiefer]

if you had actually read all of my comments on this thread, you would have seen and realized that it was not the issues mentioned (about which i agree with the poa), but the "tabloid, sensationalized layout" that "is scaring newcomers and new buyers into thinking they made the worst mistake of their lives by buying/coming here".

also, never once did i say the poa should not exist, nor that they were wrong in the class action lawsuit about rightly making the developer do what he was supposed to do for our community facilities. nor did i ever say that lawyers and the leaders of the lawsuit filing should not be paid. I agree with the article i linked above from the time of the judges' decision, saying this was "a case of david against goliath". I'd be the first to say "sometimes you have to fight fire with fire"......and sometimes you have to fight the big guys' lawyers with lawyers getting paid just as much.

I did, however, say that now, the lawyers for the poa are at least allowing--if not not promoting--the possibility of a class action suit for the homeowners' labor costs of re-roofing with owens-corning-provided new replacement shingles......when the individual homeowners could quickly and efficiently file a small claims action for these costs, without paying hefty lawyer fees and without waiting years to get relief.

Sometimes opponents purposely miss the point in order to promote theirs, and that has happened in this thread with some of the accusations made or implied about my posts.

are you aware small claims court isn't free??? I seem to recall there is a maximum amount that can be filed.

[Warren Kiefer]

Well I saw this month's POA paper as a step up - I thought it looked very professional and I loved the addition of color.

I intensely dislike the use of the sentence: "If TV is so terrible, why do they continue to LIVE here????" It would appear to me that if one has an opinion which is the opposite of yours they should leave!

Amen to this comment. I hate it when I hear people say," If you don't like it, you should move".. Those who decided to not run away from a problem are the same people who made it better for all of us, even those who spew this "like it or move" opinion. We all should be thankful for the POA and those who fought the battles for us. I challenge all the Pollyannas to come up with one thing the VHA has directly done for the Village residents.
:blahblahblah:

[mickey100]

I would say the op is entitled to her opinion , but in my opinion the POA isn't "scaring" newcomers or potential buyers. They are presenting the facts. If I was considering buying, I'd like to know the facts before I purchased. I have never understood why that threatens some Villagers.

[looneycat]

that most of the posts in this thread carry the same type of vitriolic contempt of the POA as they profess the POA publication to have, JUST SAYING....:blahblahblah:

[Madelaine Amee]

I didn't say they should leave. I wonder why people want to live in a place they apparently see as a constant GRIND in need of lawyers to defend against a villain!

It would appear you have no understanding of why the "law suit" was a necessity at that time.

[Doctommft]

Stop reading headlines and read the story which I find informative especially if my roof had defective shingles. On the last page, the explanation of the reason recycling was discontinued at the postal stations was that people are either stupid or lazy. Recycling, something that everyone agrees is the right thing to do, is ruined by the residents (yes, a minority) of The Villages.

[OBXNana]

We thought long and hard before making a purchase in The Villages. We didn't want to hear only the good things or bad things. We wanted to have all the facts and made a decision based on keeping an open mind. We weighed the options of what was important to us and we're moving forward with the purchase.

We appreciate the link provided to the POA. It helps us understand this thread.

[ilovetv]

It would appear you have no understanding of why the "law suit" was a necessity at that time.

It would appear you did not actually read what I wrote above:

"....... Also, never once did I say the POA should not exist, nor that they were wrong in the class action lawsuit about rightly making the developer do what he was supposed to do for our community facilities. Nor did I ever say that lawyers and the leaders of the lawsuit filing should not be paid. I agree with the article I linked above from the time of the judges' decision, saying this was "a case of David against Goliath". I'd be the first to say "sometimes you have to fight fire with fire"......and sometimes you have to fight the big guys' lawyers with lawyers getting paid just as much......

......Sometimes opponents purposely miss the point in order to promote theirs, and that has happened in this thread with some of the accusations made or implied about my posts."

[LV943]

First of all, I am a newcomer and a homeowner of The Villages. I get the POA in my driveway, and it's the only paper I will read. It didn't scare me away from moving here. It provides important information to homeowners no other paper will attempt do. I am one of the affected by the OC Roofing issue, which is a work in progress. The golf cart accident article was not a surprise to me. I'm sure I will get flack for this, however, this needs to be said . . . ALL golf cart owners should receive "Rules & Regulations" on how to drive a golf cart in The Villages. They do not have the right of way when merging onto a road. I pay for my Florida license plates to drive on the roads here, a golf cart does not, unless it's street legal. Please YIELD and make sure you have room to merge instead of just "cutting off" the car behind you. If you can't merge, then stop and wait until you can. Common sense. I realize I live in a golf cart community, but I also believe the rules have become too relaxed regarding golf carts. I have been visiting The Villages for two decades, so I have seen the past and the present regarding this issue. Kudos to the articles in the POA.

[pbeinetti]

I had an issue with TV that was not being resolved. It involved a number of people in my neighborhood who were extremely upset that no action was being taken, even though there were frequent requests over the course of several years. I, and my neighbors, were constantly ignored by TV management. One day I decided to contact Elaine at the POA, as a last resort. Literally, within hours, the head of TV property management was on my phone asking for a meeting. Within days a strategy was put in place to address the issue, which resolved the problem over the course of several months. Would the VHA have intervened on my behalf? Laughable! What recourse would I have had? For those of you who 'flip out' the POA, you have no idea what you are talking about.

[cbh1975]

I don't have a problem with negative items being reported. I like having the information.

What I don't like, however, is the "us against them" attitude that is pervasive throughout the paper. It's unnecessary. It makes me wonder how truthful the information is if the POA is always right (therefore, the good guys) and the developer is always wrong (the bad guys).

It seems to me that they might appear to be less offensive--and perhaps even get more readership--if they kept a professional, neutral tone. It's a complete turn-off the way it's currently written, IMHO.

[JP]

I don't have a problem with negative items being reported. I like having the information.

What I don't like, however, is the "us against them" attitude that is pervasive throughout the paper. It's unnecessary. It makes me wonder how truthful the information is if the POA is always right (therefore, the good guys) and the developer is always wrong (the bad guys).

It seems to me that they might appear to be less offensive--and perhaps even get more readership--if they kept a professional, neutral tone. It's a complete turn-off the way it's currently written, IMHO.

Exactly. Well said.

[PennBF]

If someone does not appreciate the hard work the POA does to protect the residents against questional practices or charges there is the option to only use the VHA as a source. Since the VHA is an arm of the Developer and allegedly was established by the Developer because the POA challenged him in the Law Suit which awarded the POA $40M to correct deficencies which were being ignoring. How many actually knew that the POA was the sole representative for the residents and supported by the Developer ""BEFORE" they had to sue to get the corrections made to the Rec Center, etc. After they won they lost the support of the Developer and the VHA was formed as a replacement and allegedly an arm of the Developer. . THe POA has maintained its commitment to the residents and it would be rather helpful if the residents understood the history and supported the independence of the POA to act as a watch dog for them. :bowdown: