Update on the train in my back yard in Chatham

[Talk Host]

Many of you know that I have a big issue with the fact that when we purchased our lot and had our house built in Chatham, we were not told that a freight train runs day and night about 500 yards behind our house. The engineers blow the horn continuously as they pass by.

I received a call Thursday from an old roommate of mine who is now executive producer of one ot the nations top rated television network news magazine programs. It is seen each week on a major television network. They are doing a story on the new "Train Horn Rule" established by the Railroad Safety Administration. It seems that people don't believe there has been any change in the train horns since the new rule took effect last year.

Anyway, I sent my friend a link to TOTV several months ago and he viewed my piece on the train that runs behind my house. He wants to send a NY based crew here in December or January to do a story with me on how the train and horn has impacted the lives of my wife and I. The train traffic is scheduled to increase by 33% over the next few years because Florida is closing the East coast freight line and redirecting it all to Wildwood. Their story is apparently going to include several places around the country where train noise is a problem.

They will get some really good stuff, since in December and January there is a dramatic increase in Florida train traffic (20 to 30 or more times a day). He explained (and I already knew) that even though they shoot the piece, there is no guarantee that it will run. They often shoot twice as many stories as they can air. But he said this has all the elements of being one they select because it has lots of sound and visuals as well as emotion.

Funny thing. Here it is 7:30 Sunday morning and while I am writing this post, the train has gone by twice, sounding the horn all the way. This should make a really good story for them.

For those who are not yet residents of the Villages, I want to add that the train is most noticeable in some areas of Chatham. The farther you get away from this spot, the less you can hear it. In most places, it is only heard in the distance and is not a problem. We have even become mostly use to it, my only complication is that we were not told in the beginning.. We would have purchased elsewhere in the Village had we been told. It is my position that the real estate agent was under an obligation to say something like, "A freight train passes by here 24 times a day and it is loud, is that going to be a problem." (Ya right)

[Donna]

Jan,
does the train pass near Legacy Lane?? I sent you a PM but guess you haven't had time to answer it..

[Talk Host]

Yes Donna, I did answer your PM and even included a map with a diagram of the address you asked about and our house as well.

[redwitch]

I'm one of the lucky ones where the train is far enough away to be an almost romantic sound -- at least it was until I saw your vid. I am now very conscious of it and think how sad it is to have your dream disrupted by this constantly.

I hope your home is one of those that gets aired and that it somehow wakes up TV to what they have done and that maybe they will come up with something to help at least a little (like a good sound wall around Chatham).

I know it means little in the scheme of things, but you have my deepest sympathy.

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Hi,

What wonderful news. :agree: with what has been written already

"I hope your home is one of those that gets aired and that it somehow wakes up TV to what they have done and that maybe they will come up with something to help at least a little (like a good sound wall around Chatham)."

I know people get used to the sound of trains that are close by and without thinking about it, there voices go higher and lower depending on the noise level of the train.

I had thought there were disclosure laws when you buy a house.

Hope this does the trick.

Perhaps if TV family knew this segment, had an excellent chance to be aired on national television, they would get their act together and do something prior to the filming.

HB

[chuckinca]

When I was at Ft Dix, NJ in Army AIT our barracks was right across the street from McGuire AFB. McGuire was testing jet engines usually starting at about 1 AM. The first few weeks I was there the horrendous jet blast blew most of us out of our bunks, however, within a couple weeks we were used to it and it didn't wake us anymore.

Give it some more time and it may not bother you.

[Talk Host]

We feel so bad about this. My wife (who has MS) and I absolutely love our house and the Villages. We moved here to get her away from stress. To a place where she could enjoy peace and quite. If only the agent has told us about the freight train noise, we could have looked elsewhere in the Villages. At the time we purchased the lot and ordered the house, there were no neighbors to check with, the whole area was being developed. Like most of you, we were under very strict time limits to make a decsion and place a deposit. After our preview week, we were back in New York, like a couple of little kids....so excited about our new home and surroundings. I wish you could have been here the first night we lived in the house when the freight train came blasting through. It was like somebody took a sledge hammer and smashed our dream. My wife and I both cried.

If we try to sell the house now, we are under obligation to tell prospective buyers about the noise. I guess you all know what that means.

[Talk Host]

When I was at Ft Dix, NJ in Army AIT our barracks was right across the street from McGuire AFB. McGuire was testing jet engines usually starting at about 1 AM. The first few weeks I was there the horrendous jet blast blew most of us out of our bunks, however, within a couple weeks we were used to it and it didn't wake us anymore.

Give it some more time and it may not bother you.


As I said in my earlier post, it's been 4 years and it's not the noise as much as it is that we were not told up front. This is not like the military where we have no choice. We paid $50,000 extra for this lot because it was "premium."

We had an appraiser/agent from the Villages come and appraise our house last year. She told us that we absolutely had to disclose the train and that our value is dimished becasue of its existance. We're here for the duration, I'm afraid.

[Taltarzac]

Maybe, Jan there would be buyers for your house who like being very close to the train tracks? There are people who seem to love trains. They seem more common than those who would like moving in where airplanes are making a lot of noise.

That might even be a selling point?

[jjdees]

Chuck, When I was in AIT at Ft. Dix, the air boys took off every 5 minutes around the clock. You're right, after awhile, you just didn't hear it anymore. We were young and so tired at the end of a day we just crashed and didn't hear a thing. I used to go over by McGuire occasionally and watch the takeoffs and landings thinking I'd give my right arm to go up in one of the fighters. Today, I don't think I could become used to it at my age and I sympathize with you Jan. Please let us know if they decide to air your segment.

[Peggy D]

Jan,
Is your house close to a RR crossing? The law says they must blow horn so many feet from a crossing.

[Donna]

Hey Jan..

I never got the message, sorry..I just checked again, still no message..

I was just curious how close the train was to the location I mentioned...

Thanks any way!!

[Talk Host]

I have had a number of people ask me what I want the Villages to do about this situation. I have sent them (The Developer) two letters about a solution, but got no reply.

There is such a thing as a "quiet zone." That is where trains do not have to sound their horn during the night hours. In order to have a "quiet zone" established, there must be an initiative on the part of a governmental or administrative entity. There is an application that must be filed with the state and federal governments. The Villages has an enormous amount of clout locally, statewide and nationally. I have pleaded with them to spearhead the initiative to have the stretch of track along the villages (and behind my house) declared a "quiet zone." Neither of my two letters received an answer.

They have a full time legal department that could do in one day what it would take an army of residents to accomplish in a year. It's the night hours especially that are a problem. We can't ever again sleep with our windows open. A quite zone would give us partial escape from the ongoing barrage of 175 decibel train horns day and night, night and day.

By the Way, I am never, ever going to give up on this battle. I do not quit. I will use every option at my disposal to resolve this issue that plagues my wife and me. In the meantime, we will enjoy every hour here at the villages, between freight trains.

[Barefoot]

Jan, good luck with your battle. You have lots of friends on TOTV who sympathize with the plight of you and your wife. I know you will put the word out if we can assist you in any way.

[Donna]

:agree:

Barefoot is right, if there is any way we can help, please don't hesitate to ask... :)

[Talk Host]

:bow:

[Hyacinth Bucket]

:agree:

Hyacinth Bucket

[garsha]

Hope it all works out for you. Of course, this market is not the time, but I agree, if you do want to sell to move to a quieter Village, there are people that love the sounds of trains. Keep the hope that something will work out. We are all looking forward to a positive result for you on this one.

[fiddlemyre]

I just finished reading about your plight.

Shame on the developer. But he is still up to his old tricks.

About two weeks ago The Village Sales office advertised a Chatum home for sale with a view of the horse farm on 42. I guess that means another new homeowner will be surprised to find a housing development in the back yard instead of horses.

When is a disclosure necessary? Only after the sale..... when the owner discovers it!!!!!

[samhass]

I sincerely doubt the Developer knows a thing about this. I do not see him as a micromanager. The Sales office or agent should have their feet held to the fire, instead.







I just finished reading about your plight.

Shame on the developer. But he is still up to his old tricks.

About two weeks ago The Village Sales office advertised a Chatum home for sale with a view of the horse farm on 42. I guess that means another new homeowner will be surprised to find a housing development in the back yard instead of horses.

When is a disclosure necessary? Only after the sale..... when the owner discovers it!!!!!

[Hyacinth Bucket]

:cop: close your eyes.

Sam less than 50 to go.

HB

[gfmucci]

Who did the letter you sent to "the developer" go to?* Did it request a face to face meeting? Did you followup each letter a few days later with a phone call to the individual the letter was sent to? Did the letter make specific requests or provide specific solutions?

Have you tried a blanket mailing to:

* Each member of the Board of County Commissioners of whichever County you are in.
* Each Board member of the Board of Realtors of this area.
* Each Director of the CDD you are located in.
* The homes of each member of the Schwartz, Morse, and Parr Families.

What would be the length and cost of a sound barrier that would be effective in screening the noise from the homes that are most severly impacted?

Which is more likely to significantly resolve your problem, the establishment of a "quiet zone" or the construction of a noise barrier?* Or both?

[Frangyomory]

SamHass don't kid yourself. The developer knows EVERYTHING that is going on here. The family is represented in EVERY department.

I don't understand how disclosure did not apply to them when they sold all of us our homes????? The folks at Nancy Lopez with the sink hole problem were not told about that issue either.

I really have no use for the Morse/Schwartz family anymore. Mr. Schwartz is turning in his grave because of what his children and grandchildren are doing in the family name.

Fortunately for us, we LOVE our home and where it is located. We are far enough away from the train to enjoy the soft sounds late in the evening.

I do pray for Talk Host and his wife all the time. It is a terrible thing that was done to them but I will tell you that very few new buyers were told everything about being a home owner in the Villages. God bless.

[Sidney Lanier]

I am 'voicing' the following thought as a general statement: Sadly this is more of 'caveat emptor' that came up in another thread earlier. Anyone can tell us anything; if it's not committed in writing, then the buyer of a good or service has nothing to fall back on. And while most merchants are concerned about goodwill, honesty, decency, compassion--even if for only repeat business (or in other words, no matter what their motive...)--there are always those whose motivation is the worship of the Almighty Dollar. We need to do our own research and not rely on the word of others who may not even have questionable motives but may be ignorant of the details of what they're dealing with....

[gfmucci]

It is a terrible thing that was done to them but I will tell you that very few new buyers were told everything about being a home owner in the Villages.*
It is impossible to be told "everything."* No one is told everything.* Speaking generally, there are too many of us who play "victim".** The "solution" is what we want now.* TalkHost intends to be proactive in getting a solution which we will all hopefully help him achieve.*

The formula is:* Be proactive at the beginning to avoid the problem; or be proactive later to resolve the problem.* "Later" requires much more work and pain.* We should not fully rely on others to avoid potential problems when we are healthy and coherant.

Speaking for my purchase/sales experience, every question I asked was confirmed to have been answered truthfully.* But it was up to me to ask the questions and to ask enough questions to know what other questions to ask.* To the extent that we don't do this, there will be more work at the other end required to repair the situation that results.

Just last night I dreamed that I bought a house at the end of an airport runway and couldn't do anything about it.* Boy did I wake up with a foul headache. But hopefully these kinds of nightmares will serve as a reminder to me...

[chuckster]

I'm confused here about the original purchase. :dontknow: I built off Legacy Lane in the western edge of Chatham, visited the lot several times and heard a train horn as it approached the crossings. We knew that it was there on several more visitations before and during construction. It was not necessary to "disclose" the presence of the train as we both heard it. Sounds as though Jan's purchase was "sight unseen" and if so than I defer to Sid's comment "caveat Emptor". Hope all works out OK for you Jan. :)

[Russ_Boston]

We had a discussion about buying sight unseen after the first installment of the train noise started last year. I guess many people did buy sight unseen when it came to the actual house. Maybe they visited TV and just said "Yeah I'll buy one!".

I said it then and I'll say it again - This should serve as a cautionary tale to those of us who haven't made our purchase yet. Don't assume any seller, Realtor, developer or the like will disclose anything that is not legally required. Do your own investigation like you would on any major purchase. When I bought my current home my wife and I literally parked our car in front of the empty lot we were considering and stayed there most of the night to get a feel for the neighborhood noise etc. Talk Host obviously didn't do this but us wannabes can learn from these type of mistakes. Not that we won't make some other mistakes but...

[Boomer]

Every time I see a question about maps on here, I recommend both the official TV map and the AAA map. The map from Triple A shows the tracks. The other map does not.


Just last night I dreamed that I bought a house at the end of an airport runway and couldn't do anything about it. Boy did I wake up with a foul headache.


Hi gf,

I would feel the same way about being at the end of a runway. Mr. Boomer, on the other hand, would consider that a feature. I guess it's all about The Pillow That You Dream On.

Boomer

[chuckster]

Boomer, I agree about the maps. TV map only includes property/streets in the villages boundaries. This would exclude the railroad. :)

[Talk Host]

We actually spent several hours, on at least two occasions at our lot after we purchased it. We even had a picnic lunch here. Not one train passed during that time. It was not until the first day (first hour) when we moved in that the first train roared by with the horn blasting. After the fifth one that day, I called the agent. It so happened a train went by while I was talking to him. He swore he knew nothing about it.

Then, later that day, he called back and said that he had told us about it. Funny thing.

[BUC]

Man I feel for you. Every time I hear a train, since hearing your video, I think of you. A couple of days ago I saw a news story on a local Atlanta TV Station a report of an extended r.r. arm at crossing which elimated the need to blow the train whisle. @ of these were being installed in Buckhead (a highend area $) the cost is about 500,000, but if enough people conplaint to local lawmakers it may help. I believe it was WSB T.V. that had the report.

[Russ_Boston]

TH - Just a case of bad timing I guess.

[BAILY]

Oh that is soooooooooooooooooooo sad. I will never buy in the VILLAGES AFTER HEARING YOUR STORY . >:( I at this point will be looking up in N. GA. and LOOKING FORWARD TO THE PEACE AND QUITE MYSELF :) What a shame you can't do anything about the realtor not to tell you . Well I really feel bad for you and your wife. a real shame .

[llaran]

I have no sympathy for someone who buys a home without checking out the surrounding area. I'm guessing this is not the first home you bought and that you are not 22. A short drive on 42 to 301 would have shown where the train was, it's not new. Some people south on buena vista bought near the sewer plant and now compain about the smell!!! Some bought in new areas near vacant land and now complain about the bare ground and blowing sand..

[gfmucci]

Oh that is soooooooooooooooooooo sad. I will never buy in the VILLAGES AFTER HEARING YOUR STORY . >:( I at this point will be looking up in N. GA. and LOOKING FORWARD TO THE PEACE AND QUITE MYSELF :) What a shame you can't do anything about the realtor not to tell you . Well I really feel bad for you and your wife. a real shame .

But there is stuff he can do, and those possibilities give him hope. There can be buttons pushed and solutions implemented...I've seen it happen. But it takes time. The big question...at our age how much more time are we willing to devote to such things? :dontknow:

[Talk Host]

I have no sympathy for someone who buys a home without checking out the surrounding area. I'm guessing this is not the first home you bought and that you are not 22. A short drive on 42 to 301 would have shown where the train was, it's not new. Some people south on buena vista bought near the sewer plant and now compain about the smell!!! Some bought in new areas near vacant land and now complain about the bare ground and blowing sand..


This is the third response I have written to this post. The first two, I erased because they were too sarcastic.

Yes, I guess you are right. In most cases these days, it is the fault of the victim.

[Lil Dancer]

Its hard to think of everything. I never would have thought of asking about a train. Hasn't train useage been decreasing over the years? I agree, the sales person should have said something. We had similiar issues with our Villages salesperson when we bought. He must have known about some issues which we specifically stated to him we had concerns about, but he never said a thing. Maybe that's the difference between the ethics of a real estate agent, and those of a Villages salesperson.

[784caroline]

llaran
I think your wrong..........yes the "onhus" is on the buyer but the trains do not run all day long or the smell from the sewage plant may only occur after "whatever'. The agent or whoever is really familiar with the area has a responsibility to tell the prospective owner of the train or smell issue. I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE for I just recently had a situation where a buyer of a resale home in our developement made a decision between our home on a 1/2 lot ( and up for over a year) to one backing up to a narrow golf course in our community. When we realized what the competition was, our agent informed the buyers agent, who was not familair with our development, of the potential problem with golf balls in the yard but he did nothing. His client bought this house because they have 2 small children (to use the yard) and believe me they willl not be able to use that yard without hard hats.
This couple was from Mississippi and how would they have known about the narrow course or even the risks associated with a golf course.

[gfmucci]

Buyers agents, in particular, have an obligation to know enough about the property to relay both the good and the bad to the buyer.* But as in any trade or profession, there are the good ones and bad ones, the experienced and the inexperienced, the informed and the ill-informed, the ethical and the unethical.* Unless we know with absolute certainty which one we have and can trust them, we owe an extra measure of due diligence to ourselves.
lovehorse

But the question remains, what can a person in this situation do now that the train is out of the shed :o to mitigate the problem.

[BUC]

The guy that was being a wise *** is just that. I thank you Jan for posting this. Now in a few years when it's my turn to live in the TV Historic side I'll be a lot more attention to detail. I really hope this works for you.

[Midge538]

After the fifth one that day, I called the agent. It so happened a train went by while I was talking to him. He swore he knew nothing about it.

Then, later that day, he called back and said that he had told us about it. Funny thing.


What is the name of this 'agent?'

[gfmucci]

After the fifth one that day, I called the agent. It so happened a train went by while I was talking to him. He swore he knew nothing about it. Then, later that day, he [color=blue]called back and said that he had told us about it. Funny thing.

What is the name of this 'agent?'
Yes, what is that agents' name? It would be good for all to know. That would be a GREAT public service.

[Boomer]

I really doubt that Jan will share this guy's name. -- as much as he would probably like to and as much as we would all love to know. That would just end up being a can of worms.

But the real advice here is simply CYA because nobody else is going to do that like you can do that for yourself. And no matter how charming, how lovely, how completely wonderful that TV agent may be, and many really are, never forget that you, the potential buyer, have a price on your head. So do your homework and don't tip your hand.

Or just do what works for you because that's all it ever boils down to anyway.

I said on here one other time that from the time I started talking my mother kept telling me that I could ask more questions than a Philadelphia lawyer. I never figured out why the lawyer was always in Philadelphia, but I am still asking lots of questions. But some people don't like to ask questions.

btw, gf, I know you did your homework bc I read your stuff. And I had to laugh one time when you wrote about a bunch of stuff you did that even I had not thought of. :bow:

Boomer

[Talk Host]

After the fifth one that day, I called the agent. It so happened a train went by while I was talking to him. He swore he knew nothing about it.

Then, later that day, he called back and said that he had told us about it. Funny thing.


What is the name of this 'agent?'


I really hesitate to post the name of this agent. It could escalate into an endless exchange of claims and denials. There would be no winner. I think it is better to warn everybody to be careful all real estate sales agents wether here or elsewhere. There is a fair amount of truth to the claim that we did not do our homework on this. We, too, were caught up in the excitement of The Villages and the threat that if we didn't buy now, there were lots of other people waiting to grab this piece of property. Our biggest mistake was believing. How sad. I think the thing that galls me the most is that we were charged an extra $50,000 because it was a "premium" lot. $50,000? We all know how long we have to work to have that kind of money.

FOLKS, THE VILLAGES IS A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE. JUST BE CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TOLD AND WHAT YOU BELIEVE. REMEMBER, THE DEVELOPER HAS MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. IT ALL CAME FROM PEOPLE LIKE US WHO WORKED HARD ALL OUR LIVES TO ENJOY PEACE AND QUIT IN OUR FINAL YEARS. BE MORE CAUTIOUS THAN WE WERE. WE'LL HAVE MANY MORE YEARS TO REGRET OUR SNAP DECISION.

[gfmucci]

And I had to laugh one time when you wrote about a bunch of stuff you did that even I had not thought of. Boomer
I have been known to be a royal Pain in the --- when I get in the question asking/research mode.* But ya gotta love doing it.*
I have to be really careful and be twice as diligent when I emotionally want something.* A few months after we emotionally bought a condo in the mountains of NC, we visited TV.* My wife and I prepared a 40 item list of weighted good and bad features important to us about our NC condo and general area versus TV houses and general area.* TV came out ahead that night in TV Holiday Inn.* We didn't want to believe it.* We were in denial, and not the one in Egypt.* So over the next 2 years we reworded and retook our survey 3 or 4 more times until we finally decided the survey result wasn't a fluke - this past December.

[drdodge]

Real Estate agents are interested in one thing : there commision"
drd

[Boomer]

I have been known to be a royal Pain in the --- when I get in the question asking/research mode...


Hey gf, about that royal pain stuff -- I know a builder pretty well who told me that sometimes he just can't help it and he adds on a PITA tax. So sometimes I like to act like I am a bubblehead for awhile. Timing can mean a lot when it comes to questions. ;) And sometimes I just like to listen. But we questioning types will get them all worked in one way or another.


My wife and I prepared a 40 item list of weighted good and bad features important to us about our NC condo and general area versus TV houses and general area...


We do that list thing, too. We probably never get as high as 40 things on any decision. I like that method a lot. The pros and the cons. -- Doin' the Ben Franklin.

And believe it or not, I don't let myself get into analysis paralysis either. Do a little work up front. Make the decision. And then do everything possible to make it work.

Next step: I have to try to comprehend sinkholes. Totally foreign stuff to a Buckeye.

Boomer

[Bubbalarry]

Doesn't the state of Florida have a disclosure rule for all sales new and resales?

I mean they are common in the Northeast.

In some cases the seller has had to buy back the house at the price sold or higher.

[Peggy D]

I have no sympathy for someone who buys a home without checking out the surrounding area. I'm guessing this is not the first home you bought and that you are not 22. A short drive on 42 to 301 would have shown where the train was, it's not new. Some people south on buena vista bought near the sewer plant and now compain about the smell!!! Some bought in new areas near vacant land and now complain about the bare ground and blowing sand..


Where is the sewer plant?

[Talk Host]

Doesn't the state of Florida have a disclosure rule for all sales new and resales?

I mean they are common in the Northeast.

In some cases the seller has had to buy back the house at the price sold or higher.


I don't know if the Villages sales agents are licensed real estate agents. If they are not, then they may not be governed by the law. I don't know for sure. Maybe somebody else does.

[renielarson]

Peggy

I'm not sure if this is where the sewer plant is located or not but I can tell you that it smells near here. Across from the new shopping center on 466A is a huge hill that I think is the landfill. All I know is that there are times when we drive past there that it smells awful.

I'm sure someone else here in TOTV will know where the sewer plant is if this is not the place.

[Peggy D]

Peggy

I'm not sure if this is where the sewer plant is located or not but I can tell you that it smells near here. Across from the new shopping center on 466A is a huge hill that I think is the landfill. All I know is that there are times when we drive past there that it smells awful.

I'm sure someone else here in TOTV will know where the sewer plant is if this is not the place.


Brightspot,

Where is "here"?

[renielarson]

Peggy

Kitty corner from the new shopping center on 466A, just off Morse.

[Frangyomory]

I know for a fact that very few of the "sales" representatives are real estate agents.
This is one more reason to be cautious. Salesmen will tell you anything and there is nothing you can do if they outright lie. If they were realtors, there would be laws to protect you.

Best thing to get as much information from others as you can and DON"t be afraid to knock on doors and ask questions of your soon to be neighbors.

[REDCART]

Frangyomory, Our Villages Sales Rep told us that each of the 200+ sales agents were required to be licensed real estate agents. Can you sell real estate in Fl if you're not licensed? According to FREC, http://www.myflorida.com/dbpr/re/index.html

http://www.myflorida.com/dbpr/re/documents/ReaEstateGeneralFAQs0108.pdf

you can't.

[chuckinca]

The guy that was being a wise *** is just that. I thank you Jan for posting this. Now in a few years when it's my turn to live in the TV Historic side I'll be a lot more attention to detail. I really hope this works for you.



BUC:

I don't believe Jan lives in the TV historic side. He lives in the NW area of TV. The historic side is the NE area about 5 miles from where Jan lives.

But you still need to pay attention when you buy.

[ouma1938]

Sorry but I have to throw in my two cents worth. A few posts back someone said that "real estate agents are only interested in one thing, their commission". I am a realtor and of course commissions are important--we all have to make a living--but I have to say that I know many agents both in and out of our agency and the honorable and dedicated agents far outnumber the very few bad apples (who usually lose their licenses anyway). We DO care about our clients (and customers) and the majority of us would be straight shooters regardless if we were governed by the strict laws and rules of the National Association of Realtors and various state laws or not. One final comment, if all we cared about were commissions we would not spend hours and hours driving people around who are "just looking" and "just thinking about buying or selling two or three years from now. We would give them a couple of hours and then move on. I love what I do, and hate to see everyone tarred with the same brush. Okay, now I'll climb off my soapbox!

[jadebox]

:agree: I was a real estate salesperson and I too felt I needed to be upfront with the people I was selling to. I represtented the seller but that did not mean I cheated or lied to the buyers. I think most people are honest and caring.

[ouma1938]

Thanks for your comments hope2be. I appreciate hearing from you.

[renielarson]

It's just like us teachers....everyone expects us to be perfect.

We strive to be the best in our field and cover all bases.

We invest a lot of time, exert a lot of energy, and gather a lot of information and use that to help and teach others. However, being humans, we might miss the mark occasionally.

Like some parents who believe that all learning takes place in the classroom...you need to be responsible and take it beyond the classroom. In other words, we all need to be held accountable for what effects us. Don't blame others for lack of effort or research on your part.

I believe that most real estate agents do the best they can because their reputation is on the line. They are human, like us teachers, and shouldn't be held totally and completely responsible for every and all things.

Just think....in your career life, were you 100% on every issue?

[Peggy D]

I know for a fact that very few of the "sales" representatives are real estate agents.
This is one more reason to be cautious. Salesmen will tell you anything and there is nothing you can do if they outright lie. If they were realtors, there would be laws to protect you.

Best thing to get as much information from others as you can and DON"t be afraid to knock on doors and ask questions of your soon to be neighbors.



Good advice Fran

[Bubbalarry]

I don't know if the Villages sales agents are licensed real estate agents. If they are not, then they may not be governed by the law. I don't know for sure. Maybe somebody else does.


Agents or not TV has a responsibility to the consumer. You don't need to be a sales agent to be held liable if Florida has a disclosure law. Even a John Doe sell by owner can be held responsible for not telling the buyer about house issues, such as leaks, electrical, plumbing, association fees, rules and regulations, etc. If it was disclosed and you signed agreeing to the fact the train existed then tough luck and move on.

It must have in my thinking ever since so many seniors were defrauded in the past few years on people selling swamp land. Florida came in and put it to a stop and put many in prisons.

My suggestion is to immediately find a Real Estate attorney who is familiar with the Florida disclosure laws and go at it.

Good Luck.

:2cool:

[nitehawk]

John maybe you could give me and example of the add you will use when it comes time for you to sell your home. Will the train sound be a primary addition to to your amenities?? Will it be on top or after the pool etc

[Talk Host]

John maybe you could give me and example of the add you will use when it comes time for you to sell your home. Will the train sound be a primary addition to to your amenities?? Will it be on top or after the pool etc


We're kinda stuck aren't we? If I ever try to sell the house, I guess I am going to have to make a disclosure that is with-in the law. I just wish we had been given the same consideration.

[Barefoot]

:agree: I was a real estate salesperson and I too felt I needed to be upfront with the people I was selling to. I represtented the seller but that did not mean I cheated or lied to the buyers. I think most people are honest and caring.

A few posts back someone said that "real estate agents are only interested in one thing, their commission". I am a realtor and I have to say that I know many agents both in and out of our agency and the honorable and dedicated agents far outnumber the very few bad apples

As a real estate broker for 20 years, I agree with Hope and Ouma. There are a few bad apples, but for the most part, real estate agents are professional and ethical. And BTW, Village agents are licensed real estate agents! They don't belong to the "Multiple Listing Service", but they are licensed.

[inda50]

''I have no sympathy for someone who buys a home without checking out the surrounding area. I'm guessing this is not the first home you bought and that you are not 22. A short drive on 42 to 301 would have shown where the train was, it's not new. Some people south on buena vista bought near the sewer plant and now compain about the smell!!! Some bought in new areas near vacant land and now complain about the bare ground and blowing sand..''
I think you are wrong about no sympathy. There is positive spin on what is being sold by tv not to have known facts mentioned is cazy. That is why the law states known issues must be disclosed. People visiting can't be aware of things the developer knows. Now if the developer is unaware that's different!

I;m with you Talk host

[Russ_Boston]

I think it has been established that this is not a material defect and was not 'required' to be disclosed by TV agents. The debate then went on to the opinion that they 'should' disclose anyway.

To me the fault lies somewhere in between. Should TH have seen the tracks? (we know he can see them because the video is from his lanai). Maybe. Should TH have heard the trains? Maybe but they were less frequent when he first bought. Should TV have disclosed the tracks? Maybe but again there was no legal obligation (and we know that since no legal action was brought or successful against them for the noise).

This debate has opened my eyes for my purchase in TV. Even then I may be fooled by something that we just couldn't see or hear at the time of purchase.

Again, just my thoughts.

[ConeyIsBabe]

IMHO TH's venting on TOTV has provided a service to every wannabee and potential buyer of TV property. Opppsssssss....... I can't speak for everyone, so I'll say it has definitely opened my eyes to consider many factors when deciding exactly where in TV I should invest.

I'm sensitive to unwelcomed noise and I really feel bad just thinking about how TH described his first night in the new house, and the train noise.

[renielarson]

I know when buying my 2nd home in TV, I will take time to do research about the village with regards to location of water treatment facilities, trains, sex offenders and other crimes in the area, pool upkeep, rampant rodents and anything else that might effect my quality of living. Talk Host opened my eyes to the fact that we all need to do our own leg work and look out for ourselves cause no one else will.

Thank you Jan and others!

[njgranny]

Where is the video of the train noise?

[Talk Host]

It is right here. Please click on the start button.

5457051141839200382

[ConeyIsBabe]

OMG........ talk host ....... I feel your pain :'( :'( :'(

[ladykathleen]

Hello,

If you lived in Michigan the disclosure law would apply and the developer would be held responsible. The situation would be remedied at the developers expense.

[chelsea24]

OMG! Jan, your home looks beautiful, but I could not handle that! I can't believe nothing can be done. :dontknow:

[lag]

I :agree: Since I am a light sleeper I am curious about my rental which I think is in Chatham on Horshoe lane I am very unfamailiar with locations in TV so could you clue me in? and could you also help me pull up a map to familiarize myself ? I am able to do earth goggle but does TV have something I can turn to to locate certain neighborhoods Thanks LAG

[islandgal]

Oh Jan -
I remember when you first mentioned this situation last year.
Seeing that video just blows me away.

I can definitely understand - it's not like some have mentioned before, "It's soothing to hear a train whistle in the distance"!

[Niels]

I turned down the sound a little on my computer and it was still loud. That really is a shame because your pool looks fantastic and the view from your back yard looks great too.

[chuckinca]

to quote Meatloaf, two outa three ain't bad

[jflynn1]

Real Estate Agents are licensed in Florida. The sales people from the villages have real estate licenses. I would suggest that you contact the Florida Licensing board with your complaint. Also Real Estate Agents carry what is referred to as Errors & Omissions Insurance. Suggest that you ask that agent to report this incident to his or her insurance company. You should contact a good attorney to handle this . Sounds like you have valid
issue. I have seen these issues before. The homewowner ususally wins, providing there was nothing in writing from the realtor. Of Course while the sales people from the Villages have real estate licenses, They are not REALTORS, there is a big difference.

Best of Luck

[Russ_Boston]

My guess is that TV developers, and by extension, their agents know the FLA real estate disclosure laws VERY well. TV management doesn't look like they do very much by the seat of their pants! If they didn't disclose it is, more than likely, not required. Let's remember that it isn't just Jan's house that is in question. He has many neighbors (maybe hundreds?) who are almost as inconvenienced. How far away is bothersome that they would have to disclose, 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile etc? I think it is a moot point to consider any legal action. heck, we all have sympathy for the situation but that is about all we can offer. Anyone here a RE lawyer who could share some actual (FLA) law with us?

[Boomer]

I registered as a TOTV member last November after returning from our first visit. But I had been hanging out, reading posts for awhile. When I found TOTV for the first time, it was a result of having googled around because I knew that somehow, somewhere, out there in cyberspace, there surely had to be a place where information on something as big a deal as TV was being exchanged freely.

TOTV's information on TV is from primary sources. Those with first hand experience who are sharing what they know. I consider that to be the best kind of source for information.

And I gotta tellya, TH, your train issue was one of the first things I read here.

I read it before our visit.

TV offers many things to many people. But the real estate rules are different so it seems. Buyers need to know that going in so they can get things worked through and worked out.

And even though my full given name is Boomer Due Diligence BeBack, your posts about how you and your wife have been treated in all this caused me to sprout yet another antenna out of the top of my Boomer head.

I must admit that having all these antennas coming out of my head is becoming most unattractive. And now that the big hair days of the 80's are long gone, it is becoming most difficult to hide all these antennas. So if anyone knows anybody who has any information on stealth antennas, could you please forward it to me.

Boomer

[KayakerNC]

**Snip**I must admit that having all these antennas coming out of my head is becoming most unattractive. And now that the big hair days of the 80's are long gone, it is becoming most difficult to hide all these antennas. So if anyone knows anybody who has any information on stealth antennas, could you please forward it to me.
Boomer

Ummmmm, you could make yourself a tinfoil hat (google for online instructions), would hide those antennas AND protect yourself from government radio waves, and possible alien abduction.

[bimmertl]

In summarizing information from numerous sites, it appears Florida disclosure law requires owners to disclose any issues which may have a material affect on the value of the property which aren't "readily observable". No doubt, airports, high tension wires, train tracks etc are readily observable.

[KayakerNC]

The Villages Street Map (yellow) does not seem to show the CSX Transportation tracks.
But the AAA Map shows it clearly.
Map of The Villages, Sumter County Florida (FL007).

[Boomer]

Ummmmm, you could make yourself a tinfoil hat (google for online instructions), would hide those antennas AND protect yourself from government radio waves, and possible alien abduction.


Hey KayakerNC,

Naaa, I am not worried about anybody abducting me or any of that other stuff. Are you kidding? You should see what I carry in my purse.

I just want to look good and the antennas are getting so hard to hide. But now that I look at your name, maybe I could borrow your kayak to wear on my head.

And I gotta tellya, I love that little "snip" for the snippy snippet you did. I may just have to borrow that. I always use those little dots in a row when I leave out part of a quote but your way is so much better.

And now I had better stop hijacking this v. serious topic and move forward with my life. TH is going to throw me out of here some day. (I can only hope.)

Vanity, thy name is Boomer

[ConeyIsBabe]

In summarizing information from numerous sites, it appears Florida disclosure law requires owners to disclose any issues which may have a material affect on the value of the property which aren't "readily observable". No doubt, airports, high tension wires, train tracks etc are readily observable.


OK...... I get it ...... but why can't people just "do the right thing" - and honestly disclose everything they know, even though it might be visible to an enthusiastic, anxious buyer ?

[Talk Host]

I feel like I should cover this part of our saga one more time.

The reason we moved to The Villages is that my wife has Multiple Sclerosis. She had to take a medical retirment from her job and her doctor told her she should find a location with as little stress as possible. Like most of you, we fell in love with the Villages after a visit from our Upstate New York home. We trusted what we were being told by the agent, and that was our mistake. The deal was done from afar.

After we moved in and found out about the train (after one hour), I called our agent, who at first denied that he knew about the train, then called back and said he had told us about it. He then suggested we sell the house and build a new one.

I contacted numerous attorneys. Most of them said that they in some way represent a portion of the Villages operation and could not take our case. Others said that we could not afford to fight the fight.

I sent a letter to Mark Morse and explained the situation and my wifes medical condition. He responded by suggesting, among other things, that we sell the house and move elsewhere.

Many of our neighbors want me to head up the battle about this on their behalf, but I want to retire like everybody else here. I don't want to be the general in charge of the war. Can you imagine what a monsterous challenge that would be. I sent a letter to the famous POA but got no response.

What is most frustrating is that had we known about the train, we would have simply built elsewhere. They would not have lost the sale.

My wife and I have resigned ourselves to the hand that was dealt to us. We all work hard for years to achieve our dream of a carefree retirement, but in our case, we slipped up by trusting when we shouldn't have, and now we are paying the consequenses. We look with envy on the thousands of others who live peacfully in the quiet zones of the Villages, and wish you all the very best in your retirement years. The Villages is a great place to live, and our little part of it will be tarnished for the rest of our lives.

[rshoffer]

This a sad stain on the fabric of the reputation of The Villages. It is infuriating to think that the realtor knew of this and withheld the information. My anger would make it my mission to let everyone I could know about how you were deceived.

[tkret]

I feel like I should cover this part of our saga one more time.

.... We trusted what we were being told by the agent, and that was our mistake. The deal was done from afar.

After we moved in and found out about the train (after one hour), I called our agent, who at first denied that he knew about the train, then called back and said he had told us about it. He then suggested we sell the house and build a new one.




Talk Host,

Who was your TV Realtor? No need to make any comments other than telling our "community" who it was you dealt with. Many folk have asked others who they used as a Realtor and I believe you can do the same. I really commend you for "hanging in there" in the face of such adversity. Good luck.

[njgranny]

Oh Wow! I see (hear) your problem. Good luck with some type of solution.

Another Jan (female)

[rshoffer]

[quote=Talk Host ]
I feel like I should cover this part of our saga one more time.

The reason we moved to The Villages is that my wife has Multiple Sclerosis. She had to take a medical retirment from her job and her doctor told her she should find a location with as little stress as possible. Like most of you, we fell in love with the Villages after a visit from our Upstate New York home. We trusted what we were being told by the agent, and that was our mistake. The deal was done from afar.

After we moved in and found out about the train (after one hour), I called our agent, who at first denied that he knew about the train, then called back and said he had told us about it. He then suggested we sell the house and build a new one.

I contacted numerous attorneys. Most of them said that they in some way represent a portion of the Villages operation and could not take our case. Others said that we could not afford to fight the fight.

I sent a letter to Mark Morse and explained the situation and my wifes medical condition. He responded by suggesting, among other things, that we sell the house and move elsewhere.

Many of our neighbors want me to head up the battle about this on their behalf, but I want to retire like everybody else here. I don't want to be the general in charge of the war. Can you imagine what a monsterous challenge that would be. I sent a letter to the famous POA but got no response.

What is most frustrating is that had we known about the train, we would have simply built elsewhere. They would not have lost the sale.

My wife and I have resigned ourselves to the hand that was dealt to us. We all work hard for years to achieve our dream of a carefree retirement, but in our case, we slipped up by trusting when we shouldn't have, and now we are paying the consequenses. We look with envy on the thousands of others who live peacfully in the quiet zones of the Villages, and wish you all the very best in your retirement years. The Villages is a great place to live, and our little part of it will be tarnished for the rest of our lives.

[/quote In addition to the downturn in the economy, have you looked into how much money you would lose if you did sell your home? If, indeed you would lose a substantial amount of money because of the train you were not told about it would seem that you have a case to collect for damages as well as punitive damages for the deceitfulness of the real estate agengy. There are attorneys everywhere. I bet if you continue to look you would find a youn, hungry lawyer whow would work on a contingency and love to take on Goliath. How many neighbors hear the same train like you do?]

[Talk Host]

[/quote In addition to the downturn in the economy, have you looked into how much money you would lose if you did sell your home? If, indeed you would lose a substantial amount of money because of the train you were not told about it would seem that you have a case to collect for damages as well as punitive damages for the deceitfulness of the real estate agengy. There are attorneys everywhere. I bet if you continue to look you would find a youn, hungry lawyer whow would work on a contingency and love to take on Goliath. How many neighbors hear the same train like you do?]
[/quote]

In answer to your question about the number of neighbors, I would guess it number is about 200. Most all of those that I have talked to tell me they were not informed of the train. At every block or house party we have, the subject comes up.

We checked into selling the house. A Villages agent came and did a valuation. She said that we would have to disclose the train. The sale figure she quoted to use was about $100,000 less than we paid to have it built. She also said that she thinks that if we did not disclose the train, that the buyer would have 3 years to come back after us.

You know, the biggest insult to this is that they charged us an extra $50,000 as a premium lot. $50,000 is nothing to them, but to us it was a significant part of our retirement savings.

[rshoffer]

[/quote In addition to the downturn in the economy, have you looked into how much money you would lose if you did sell your home? If, indeed you would lose a substantial amount of money because of the train you were not told about it would seem that you have a case to collect for damages as well as punitive damages for the deceitfulness of the real estate agengy. There are attorneys everywhere. I bet if you continue to look you would find a youn, hungry lawyer whow would work on a contingency and love to take on Goliath. How many neighbors hear the same train like you do?]


In answer to your question about the number of neighbors, I would guess it number is about 200. Most all of those that I have talked to tell me they were not informed of the train. At every block or house party we have, the subject comes up.

We checked into selling the house. A Villages agent came and did a valuation. She said that we would have to disclose the train. The sale figure she quoted to use was about $100,000 less than we paid to have it built. She also said that she thinks that if we did not disclose the train, that the buyer would have 3 years to come back after us.

You know, the biggest insult to this is that they charged us an extra $50,000 as a premium lot. $50,000 is nothing to them, but to us it was a significant part of our retirement savings.

This is a human interest story. I would also go to "the press", including TV networks... "Americas Friendliest Hometown" doesn't want publicity that shows how you've been treated. I might have missed this but was the agency who initially sold you the property The Villages real estate agency? This thread has over 90 responses... does that tell you something? Your video is compelling as is your story. If you have to disclose the info to a new buyer why didn't the train info have to be disclosed to you? There are some very unhappy people in America's friendliest hometown. Call the POA again... they are going thru a transition... I think the officers got burnt out on the siding issue, another embarassing mess. They will at least print your story.

[Peazoup]

I have much empathy for you. Have you thought of an expose of sorts? Dateline, 20/20, 60 minutes sort of thing? You certainly have a VERY strong case. I'm sure you've thought of just about everything, but what do you have to lose by listing FSBO at a comfortable price, disclosing the fact that there are train tracks near by and just see what happens. Some people I'm learning love the sound of a train. You never know. I admire your resolve. Me - I would fight for the injustice! Also, as someone mentioned, there have to be starving lawyers out there who would work on a contingency basis.

[WSOX47]

Wow!! 200 homes @ $100k = $20Million lost in value. This could make a good lead, even considering the current overall Housing market.

[ConeyIsBabe]

Talk Host.... would you be willing to exchange your home for another home in TV of equal value ? Perhaps somehow you could persuade the TV-Boss to consider such an arrangement and they (TV-Boss) could use your old home as a Lifestyle Preview home and for a high-season rental ? :dontknow: This concept could work for the other disgruntled owners also, only if the TV-Boss had the good morals to amend the disclosure oversight.

[tkret]

Talk Host.... would you be willing to exchange your home for another home in TV of equal value ? Perhaps somehow you could persuade the TV-Boss to consider such an arrangement and they (TV-Boss) could use your old home as a Lifestyle Preview home and for a high-season rental ? :dontknow: This concept could work for the other disgruntled owners also, only if the TV-Boss had the good morals to amend the disclosure oversight.


Hi CIB
I doubt that the powers that be and their lawyers would permit an exchange for one without opening themselves up to exchanges for many. As for the Lifestyle Preview, not many people would buy in TV if they were housed in an area with such a problem. It's a "first impression" thing.

I'm sorry to say that our Talk Host is caught between a rock and a hard place. He has to consider his wife's health condition before embarking upon a all-out legal battle. Much sympathy.

[Talk Host]

Talk Host.... would you be willing to exchange your home for another home in TV of equal value ? Perhaps somehow you could persuade the TV-Boss to consider such an arrangement and they (TV-Boss) could use your old home as a Lifestyle Preview home and for a high-season rental ? :dontknow: This concept could work for the other disgruntled owners also, only if the TV-Boss had the good morals to amend the disclosure oversight.


Very interesting idea.

[Talk Host]

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this thread. Also my dear friend Tony has talked to me about it in the past.

I don't think I am doing myself any favors by showcasing this problem. If I were ever to decide to sell this house and move elsewhere, it would know as the "train" house. The developer is not ever going to do anything to mitigate this problem, so maybe I just better bury the topic. Maybe my guardian angle with think of something.

BTW, one of our earlier poster was exactly correct about the stress a long drawn out litigation would have on my wife's well being. I guess, as they say, we'll just have to suck it up.

Additionally, I have had several personal messages from people who said they decided to not move to The Villages because of this mess. Please, I don't want that to happen. This really is a great place to live and I don't want this to dissuade anybody. Just be thorough before you sign. I should have checked my stuff before I bought. The nuns at Madonna High School taught me to forgive. (difficult as that may be sometimes) I just don't have the energy to carry around a grudge for the rest of my life.

[mzmom3]

Jan- I really dislike anyone who would not have sympathy for your situation or anyone's similar real estate situation. We all try to remember to do all things "right." Some of us work hard at gaining information and are also lucky; others of us work just as hard for information but miss something and pay for it. Been there. I have empathy for the situation and if pushed, could get really mad for you! Of course, I know that wouldn't help anything either. Wishing you well.

[ConeyIsBabe]

Hmmmmm...... I have another brilliant idea.

You seem to have some background in communications or at least on-camera. How about making a short video of yourself, respectfully asking Mr-TV-Boss to remedy the disclosure omission......

with the sound of the choo-choo blaring in the background, and post it on U-Tube ?

[starflyte1]

At least TV could refund the $50,000 I believe that they charged you for a "Premium" lot.
Your lot is not premium, therefore it was misrepresented.

[gfmucci]

I must admit that having all these antennas coming out of my head is becoming most unattractive. And now that the big hair days of the 80's are long gone, it is becoming most difficult to hide all these antennas.* So if anyone knows anybody who has any information on stealth antennas, could you please forward it to me.

Boomer


Boomer:

Here is a link to "stealth antennas." http://kd6tlf.fortunecity.com/stealthantennas.html* But seriously, I don't think you would look any better wearing a hummingbird feeder than you do with the antennas coming out of your head.

[rshoffer]

OMG... the YOU-Tube idea is excellent... title it " 50 thousand dollar choo-choo view". It might get Mr TV bosses attention. Frankly, if I had heard this story before I moved here I would NOT have moved here.

[troubletog]

are there other areas of the Villages that are affected by the trains or just the village of Chatham?

[Barefoot]

are there other areas of the Villages that are affected by the trains or just the village of Chatham?

The train can be heard in most of the Villages on the western edge of TV. For many people it is not a problem. Chatham happens to be the closest Village to the tracks. Jan's problem is more unique because he backs on the tracks and open space, and there is no buffer. :dontknow: My heart goes out to Jan and his wife.

We can hear the train from our home in TV but we are further from the tracks than in Chatham. We like the sound. Many in our neighbourhood feel the same way.

[chuckinca]

Jan:

Your situation is not what you intended and is costly in many ways.

However, you are certainly not alone in being worked over.

We recently went through a "termite inspection" repair on our planned summer home in Norcal that had an original estimated cost of $25k that, after two years of pure hell, ended up costing over $125 K and involved litigation, insinuated bodily harm, contractor bankruptcy, etc, etc. With having to making up the $100K, the housing bust, not being able to sell our Norcal home and the stock market slide, it looks like our plans to hang it up this winter will be delayed for a while.

At least you made it to TV!

Feel Better?

[rshoffer]

[quote=chuckinca ]
Jan:

Your situation is not what you intended and is costly in many ways.

However, you are certainly not alone in being worked over.

We recently went through a "termite inspection" repair on our planned summer home in Norcal that had an original estimated cost of $25k that, after two years of pure hell, ended up costing over $125 K and involved litigation, insinuated bodily harm, contractor bankruptcy, etc, etc. With having to making up the $100K, the housing bust, not being able to sell our Norcal home and the stock market slide, it looks like our plans to hang it up this winter will be delayed for a while.

At least you made it to TV!

Feel Better?


[/quote Someone once taught me that if you loose 1 arm and are distraught, you will not "feel better" discovering your neighbor lost 2 arms. The, "my misery is worse than yours" usually does nothing to console someone who has been wronged. Everyone in this thread is upset by the lying, deceit and greed of the real estate agent and the impact it had on these people.]