Conversion to Home owners associations

[beartrack1]

We are looking to purchase a home in TV. We constantly hear a rumor that when the developer is all built out, they will then convert each of the villages to a Home owners association. Does anyone think that there is any truth to this rumor?

Beartrack

[another Linda]

There's truth to it alright. We are in Rio Grande and just received a notice that the who shebang will be turned over to us. A little unsettling but I guess we'll see.

[beartrack1]

Thank you, another Linda. Would you please post any particulars that you already have and any info that you receive in the future. We live in Fort Myers in an HOA and one of the biggest reasons to move to TV is that there are no HOA's. Living with that scenario is something that we absolutly want to avoid.

Beartrack

[SteveFromNY]

Can you please shed some light on the problems with having an HOA?

[another Linda]

Don't really have any specifics as yet. The letter we got said that, "... The Villages of Lake-Sumter, Inc will be turning over control of the homeowners association to the Members. this means that residents of Rio Grande Courtyard Villa will now be responsible for the maintenance and repair of Common Areas within the Subdivision." We can't be there for the meeting (Nov 16), nor do we know anyone to ask. Will some of our amenities fee be returned to us to use for maintenance and repair? And exactly what are the common areas? We've got a ton of questions and no answers.

[beartrack1]

Hi Stevefrom NY, Home owners assoc's and condo assoc's are very similar. A lot of people with absolutely no experience get elected based on a popularity contest and instantly turn into experts with yellow pads. They start making rules and bylaws with no way to enforce them. Then of course there is maintenance fee's enacted by them for everything under the sun. Your once peaceful community suddenly turns into a war zone. People that were once friends and neighbors now become mortal enemies. I have experienced this and have no desire to repeat the experience.

Beartrack

[Frangyomory]

The Villages will become a resident owned community, totally, in 2011 unless the developer determines that he/they will remain to continue to build. Your bond is supposed to be in a special escrow like account which will fund the infrastructure such as road repair, planting bushes and trees in common areas, planting and caring for grass and flowers, etc.

Each year in your tax bill, you are charged a maintenance fee even if you have paid your bond off, as we did. That fee for us was 400 this year. I called Pete Wahl and asked him why we were being billed for this $400 "maintenance fee". He said this is how the developer pays for all the people who take care of "common areas" in the Villages.

The amenity fee is just for use of recreation facilities. This will continue on for good, regardless of who owns the Villages but will likely continue to rise each year to maintain staff and other infrastructure.

I understand that the developer/family will have completed their building in 2011 and we are then the proud owners. Each time a recreation center is completed, the developer has been selling it to the residents as a rate they determine appropriate for the real estate market. I understand this is all in accordance with the special provisions of communities under VCCDD (? I might have left out a C ) which is a special piece of Florida legislation.

A longer term Villager told me this is due to some influence that Walt Disney Corp had with the Florida legislature. When they had completed Disneyworld they discovered that the surround area was falling to ruin and that pushed up the costs for Disney to maintain the area. Thus a piece of legislation was passed which eventually applied to communities like ours and we are assessed a bond when we buy a new home. Older homes sometimes have a small balance if the first owner did not pay the bond down.

Unfortunately, these are things we are finding out now after we have been here two years and have invested in our home, etc.

It is imperative that all home owners pay attention to how the developer and his cronies disburse property, etc. because at some point in time, we will be holding the entire bill for the place.

The VHA is useless for us and I suggest that all consider joining and becoming active in POA who is a REAL voice for home owners. I believe I have said before that most of the representatives of the VHA are employees, in some capacity, of the developer. They might be a sales rep or a greeter or work in some office or other, but they will not bite the hand that feeds them.

Just my warning once again. Caveat Emptor....as we all learned in grade school...let the buyer beware.

This is a wonderful place to live but keep your eyes and ears open and don't depend on the Daily Sun to let you know what's going on around here!
:cop:

[another Linda]

I do hope you are wrong, Beartrack, because that is the way TV is going. We certainly have seen some dissent here -- playgrounds, pets, rules, etc. Seems like we all have common goals though. We all want to keep our areas well tended, and a wonderful place to live. I hope that is enough to keep us willing to find common ground on all the contentious issues.
Signed: Pollyanna (aka Linda)

[golfnut]

I predict this thread could get interesting....

[Frangyomory]

Linda, there will always be things that don't please some people. I for one don't want playgrounds. However, if they were to build one or two, I wouldn't have a heart attack over it. Over the years I have been told by the folks on the historic side that there were many HOT issues but the residents and Mr. Schwartz got to an agreement.

While Mr. Schwartz is long gone, I am sure that if anyone tries to pass some totally stupid or irresponsible regulation/rule, there will be enough of us to vote it down.

I am all for total involvement in my community. The "silent majority" won't work here!

Keep that positive attitude.....even though I am likely one of those who will post on the negative from time to time!!! :joke:

[Frangyomory]

The Villages will not convert to a Home Owner's Association. We will become a Resident Owned Community.....please look into Florida legislation regarding same. I also posted elsewhere on TOTV regarding 2011 when the developer has completed building here.

[RCT]

I predict this thread could get interesting....
I predict golfnut is right in his prediction

[another Linda]

Fran -- The letter we got specifically calls it a Homeowners Association. What is the difference?

[Frangyomory]

I don't know why and we have friends in El Santiago who also got that letter. We were told in our closing papers ( some 25 pages ) that we would ultimately be a resident owned community. Perhaps they are using the term Home Owner's Association but defining it differently.

If you go to the meeting will you please post what you find out????? We are concerned as well even though we are in district #6 and have a while to go.

Thanks.

[chuckinca]

As a former condo complex HOA board member, treasurer and president I hereby apply for the position of TV HOA President, with a starting salary equal to the developer's manager in charge.

Vote for Chuck inTV!

[Frangyomory]

UP MAYO !!! Garry Owen!!!!

You will have to look into the Irish clubs once you get here from the land of fruits and nuts!!!! :joke: :joke:

[chuckinca]

Fran:

That seemed a bit on the negative side

[beartrack1]

Linda, "A rose by any other name is still a rose" "If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck etc. then it must be a duck. I am very, very sorry to sound so negative but, my wife and I really fell in love with The villages. The way that it is, not the way we are afraid it may become. We live in a "bundled community now" we have a golf course a huge tennis facility a three hundred boat marina and a country club of some thirty thousand square feet. Bundled means everyone that lives here pays the same amenity fee, whether you use the amenity or not, sound familiar? When the developer turned this community over to the home owners all heck broke loose. With 1200 homeowners came 1200 different opinions on how this community should be run etc, etc. You can cut the hostility around here with a knife. It has gone from paradise, to a haven for vitriol. Doesn't mean that the same thing will happen at TV but, We are not sure, anymore, whether or not to take the chance.

Beartrack

[golfnut]

frangy, "UP MAYO !!! Garry Owen!!!!", I don't get it, need more information, thank you.

[another Linda]

I predict this thread could get interesting....

Isn't that like the old Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times."?

[rdkent]

golfnut - I can't answer for the UP MAYO but Garry Owen is the 7th Cav motto.

[ewstanley]

I am not a fan of HOA-s.
I agree with Beartrack about HOA-s elections being a popularity contest.
:agree:

[redwitch]

I've lived with good HOAs and with bad. No question, if it is bad, it is awful. The one thing that saved us from the bad was that the Bylaws stated that no one could be president for no more than two consecutive terms. This pretty much made it that when we had a truly Board, we could (and did) get rid of the prez and her cronies -- fortunately, the next group got rid of a lot of the junk rules that were created. It took a couple of years to recover from the backlash but we ended up with a great crew and a great HOA.

There are ways to curb all of the self-interest issues. A lot depends on how the Bylaws are written. When the votes are public, it does create a lot of bad feelings. Our meetings were such that if you wanted to have something added to the agenda, it had to be written and approved by the Board. Open forums were only conducted twice yearly. This really did save on animosity between neighbors.

[Russ_Boston]

There have been many posts in the past which explain the CDD setup that will be in place for all of TV once the developer has finished.

Search for CDD.

[cabo35]

Very interesting thread. The first question that comes to mind is what is the criteria for the developer turning over control to property owners? Is it a timeline or is it buildout of a section? Is it at his whim? What exactly is included in the new responsibility, ie: roads, sewers, traffic controls, landscaping in common areas, etc.? I have talked to many "in the know", but seldom get the same answer twice. I am not suggesting that there is a sinister motivation, but homeowners need to be on the same page as the developer and the developer needs to be a more open with homeowners. It appears to me that the "notice" was sprung on the homeowners without educating them first and that is not right. Please correct me if I am misinformed.

I am not alarmed at the turnover to property owners as we expected that to happen at some point during ownership. When it actually occurs suddenly, it can be startling. Frangyomory has it exactly right with paying attention to the releases by the developer. I also believe a strong property owners association is in our collective interest. It is especially important because of the unique complexity of TV. Three counties, a municipality, extensive common areas and facilities.

Does the POA retain an attorney or professional property manager to insure that the interest of property owners are preserved when as Fran states, the developers disperse or otherwise engage in transactions that impact property owners?

My wife was president of a board that had many similarities to the Villages. It was a new oceanfront community that developed into several boards (one for each section) and a master association board where each section had a representative. There was a mix of private homes, condos and townhouses. The master association took care of common area, multiple pools, beach, recreation areas and parking issues. The boards took care of their section or units. We also had an on premise manager and small staff that responded to day to day issues. The original manager was the developer's man. Not the best situation. Subsequently, the association intereviewed candidates and appointed his successor. Accordingly the property owners were better served. The point is that we were apprehensive, suspicious and concerned with the unknown as we went through the metamorphosis to self government as the community grew. Today it is extremely well managed and a very desirable property.


Do not be overwhelmed by these complexities. With patience, monitoring and support for those who communicate our interests, this too shall pass. Life in the Villages is good. Be of good cheer. Have a great day.

[efrahin]

Well, that is it for Paradise. I dont understand, the place is being run good now, it will be hell later. I felt like a bucket of ice water fall on me when I read all this about Home Owners Assn. It will not be the same. We are retired people that do not want to waste our time with this kind of garbage. I am uncertain now if I want to move to TV.

[Russ_Boston]

Many of these concerns were well addressed in a previous post a few months ago. 'Villages Kahuna" had some great posts that we don't need to repeat here.

The original topic can be found here: https://www.talkofthevillages.com/smf/index.php/topic,2248.0.html

[gowens1]

You people are scaring me. After living through the "cityfacation" of Deltona and now a few years later seeing what a bureaucratic monster it has become, I may not want to move.
gary
Deltona, FL

[gfmucci]

If the great majority of active homeowners in The Villages have the same vision, for a quality, professionally managed community, they can make it happen. What happens in a smaller HOA or condo situation typically is that there is a vocal minority, or maybe even a majority, who want to cut costs, want to do certain things themselves that should be left to professionals, who want to be penny wise and pound foolish to save a buck...and the place slowly declines in the midst of continuing acrimony.

There's a trusim in the realm of condominium management...a complex is never as well maintained as during the period of intial sales and control by the developer. From then on, the penny pincher unit owners take over and operations and maintenance decline.

It seems to me that there is great momentum among Villagers to maintain a pristine, optimally maintained, professionally run community, no matter what form of government or management is selected to do it. The residents will demand it and, as Captain Kirk would say, they will "make it so."

[Hancle704]

"The amenity fee is just for use of recreation facilities."
Think you would get different information about this if you check with POA of The Villages.(The original resident group.) They will tell you that a substantial portion of our Amenities fees goes to payment of the bonds that were used to purchase the Rec Centers, Gate houses, pools etc. from the Developer.

As I understand things as they relate to Villa Communities the local CDD's have been responsible for common area maintenance, road re-sufacing, etc as these Villa roads were never turned over to the Counties. If the Developer decides to leave, the CDD's will pro bably continue to exist as they were created under State Statutes and have a legal standing independent of the Developer. Clarification of the real facts might best be obtained through attendance at one of the CDD Classes conducted by District Administration and at the POA of The Villages Monthly Meetings. You probably wont get answers at the VHA Meetings or in their monthly Daily Sun newspaper insert

[beartrack1]

I would take this opportunity to thank all of "The Villagers" that have responded to my Query. I read many different opinions as to what will happen and when. You are exactly what I expected. A group of respectful, nice people, that I would love to have as friends and neighbors. It is refreshing to be able to debate a subject with concerned and caring folks that do not come to the table with an agenda all their own. That said however, I still do not know "exactly" what will happen at the Villages in 2011 or whenever the individual villages are turned over to the residents by the developer. It is my opinion that those questions can only be answered by the developers themselves.

As a person that is willing and able to make an investment in your community, I should be able to get those questions answered in a simple understandable way. What I mean is, we are not lawyers and the answers to my questions should be answered without all the legalese and without 25 pages of small print.

We would love to purchase and live in "The Villages" but, as a result of all the unanswered questions and so far, our inability to find the right vehicle to get those much needed answers, we are becoming apprehensive. I need to speak with a Representative of the "Powers that be" Can anyone tell where I can contact such a person or office etc. ?

Beartrack

[Russ_Boston]

Beartrack,

Have you totally perused the web site for the CDDs? Lots of info on how they operate both now and into the future. http://www.districtgov.org/ You can also try this link which has information of the difference between the two special CDD's and the residential CDD's. http://thevillagesfl.blogspot.com/

For research maybe you could look into other 55+ communites that have been turned over to the population. Remember, the 110,000 people that will live in TV have a vested interest in keeping up the community since they will need to resell or leave for their heirs to resell.

I think both you and Boomer should rent for a few months to see how you like it and do some digging while you are down here. You don't NEED to buy first if you are worried about buyer's remorse. That's what my wife and i plan on doing.

[gfmucci]

I sent an e-mail to the Sumter Landing Community Development District (CDD) Manager to see if he can clarify the "succession plan" for us.* Given that the CDD has most of the functions of an Home Owners Association (HOA) in the great majority of other communities, the CDD will continue to have the predominant role in these matters.

The CDD will always be with us, unlike the current owner/developer.* The CDD will provide management continuity and professionalism.** The interesting unknown is who the CDD's "Board of Directors" will become upon the "Succession of Ownership" plan that the current owner/developer will initiate.* What are the options out there?* The existing Villages Property Owners' Association (POA) Board of Directors?* What/who else?

I agree it is in the CDDs and the owner family's best interest to effecitively communicate with both existing and prospective residents about any plan of succession.* Great communications will dispel rumor, fears, and will instill confidence in decisions many of us are about to make.

I cannot imagine the well-oiled and well-appreciated machine that is running things now will suddenly devolve into rampant antipathies and gross inefficiencies.* Not in the lifetime of my children.

I am familiar enough with the manner CDDs in Florida are authorized and managed to have a high level of confidence in the operation of The Villages CDDs into the future.* This will not be a concern I have in my decision-making process for purchase in TV.

[efrahin]

This issue is very important to all, mostly people like us who are thinking of buying in TV. Those members posting messages will do a big favor to everyone if they would not use ABREVIATIONS which are foreign to those not in the loop. Thank you.

[nyclicker]

The way I understand the situation is this. The developer has sold and will continue to sell all of the amenities. This includes golf courses, rec centers pools etc. Your monthly fees end up in the hands of the new owners who purchased these in groups. When the developer is finished and a HOA is formed regardless of who gets elected the homeowners will be responsible for many other items. Everywhere else that has an HMO the elected officials determine the monthly fee each year. Most of these people have no idea what�s going on and there is a huge turnover but the monthly fees seem to go up every year.

[lm01]

It is not in anyone's best interest to let things fall apart in the Villages because of weak management. I really believe everyone would feel that way.

To be honest I feel that there are a lot of people here in the Villages who tell things the way they see them is a good thing for all the Villages. I feel the purpose of the Villages is to maintain a wonderful quality of life for everyone that is what brought us all here. I just can't imagine someones individual interest will serve the Villages well in general.

I believe that the biggest success about the Villages is the mantra that the owners use in development of the Community. Refer to rule number 1 is it in the best interest of the Villages. If we are able to maintain that then things will be able to be maintained as a beautiful community that will draw folks for years to come.

The thing about the Villages is we are all in this together (we are the stake holders) and I believe it is all about the betterment of the community as a whole not one persons self interest. Some how I think we will make it going into the future.

[Peggy D]

It may be in the best interest of TV for everyone to be on the same page and to work together when all this change-over occurs aprox. 2011. But I can almost guarantee that won't be the case.

Take our situation for instance. I live in a comunity that has a HOA. It is a boating community and always has been. The latest by-laws hasn't passed in almost a year. The problem is where an individuals' boat is to be kept in the off-season. The by-laws are being held hostage by non-voters until they get what they want! The last meeting became VERY heated and nothing again was resolved.

Think this sort of thing won't happen in TV--think again

[billethkid]

As was said above this thread could get interesting.....as it should. But hopefully without chasing too many "just rumors". If you read the closing papers there is nothing you have or haven't heard yet that isn't in them in some form.
I just had to sign in again when I saw this "opportunity".
No matter what it is called or what form it takes, the residents, like it or not will eventually become owners in some fashion once the developer bows out.
Some may view it as a negative that you will have some say in how things are to be organized/done/etc.
But once again herein lies the big challenge. If history and statistics bear out the future, then the SILENT MAJORITY will be the worst enemy of either keeping it the way you like it or making sure what the MAJORITY do not want takes precedent.
The silent majority today does nothing about what causes for the direction of our country to use a good or bad example.

I personally do not think a person should be concerned about the transition away from the developer. There are few (if any) who remain after a development is completed. Most responsible developers (and I do consider TV to be responsible) provide for appropriate future fundings and transitions.

Another comment, from experience, when things go badly in some of the post transition periods it is usually because the "new regime" who ever or what ever, strays from the strategy and plan the developer has in place (that we all bought into by the way).

It will work fine. It will stay fine as long as the SILENT MAJORITY gets up and participates in being vocal to their representatives in the new organization.

Anyway as you may glean from my postings, the SILENT MAJORITY is and has been a problem for me my whole life. I totally subscribe to standing up and being counted for what I believe. I have a philosophy that if one does not participate they have no licence to criticize...raise Cane....complain or %*^%&(&%$.

How about a rumor or two? The Villages becomes it's own City? I know 3 counties....so make it a tri city something or other.

There's my $4.63 (two cents adjusted for the high cost of rumor control and gas).

BTK :bigthumbsup: