I don't understand such strong "feeling" against dogs

[mzmom3]

I came across a number of postings about dogs here. It seems feelings run rather strongly about companion animals and often not on the happy side. Makes me sad and wonder what does it say about The Villages? I've always felt a home wasn't as wonderful if there was no animal....... They've always lent a sweetness and lots of love. Responsible owners are important.........very important. Perhaps then people would be more kind.

[ewstanley]

Mzmom3,

I don't know if the majority of people in TV have anti dog feelings.
Dogs add longevity to a human life.
Our Henry used to visit residents in an assistant living facility.
I can tell you that Henry had quite a following.
There was a couple of residents who didn't appreciate Henry, but clearly the majority looked forward to his visits.
Henry is retired now and we hope that he will be welcome when we move in 2009.
We are responsible dog owners, perhaps the anti dog feelings are anti irresponsible dog owner feelings.

Liz

[Avista]

MZmom3, I too was really sad to read all of the anti dog postings. There are so many dogs in The Villages with good and friendly owners. The anti dog people must be a small vocal minority of those of us who live here.

[Talk Host]

Far and away the majority of dog owners in the Villages have wonderful pets, love their animals and keep them under control, but at the same time, respect the rights of other people.

Please do not shift the blame. There is not a group of "anti-dog" people. It is not a dog "unfriendly" community. It is an "anti-irresponsible dog owner" community. You all know, and don't have to be reminded that the actions of the dogs are a direct result of the actions of the owners. Just like unruly kids and parents. This minority group is making the majority of owners look bad

There are some irresponsible dog owners who do not observe the leash rule. There are irresponsible owners who allow their dogs to poop in other peoples yards. There are irresponsible owners who take their animals into large crowds where they don't belong. There are irresponsible owners who allow their dogs to jump onto total strangers. There are irresponsible people who let their dogs ride on their lap while driving cars and golf carts.



It make me sad when somebody exercises their right to voice concern about actions of the irresponsible owners and then are labled "anti-dog" or "troublemaker."

[Avista]

Maybe were just lucky. Have been here since Feb. and have not found any irresponsible dog owners yet. Lots of dogs in our neighborhood, but one is nicer than the next as are their owners.

[Taltarzac]

Maybe were just lucky. Have been here since Feb. and have not found any irresponsible dog owners yet. Lots of dogs in our neighborhood, but one is nicer than the next as are their owners.


:agree: Same with our neighborhood in the Villages. Have not come across an irresponsible dog owner here. They are few and far between. Well, maybe the jumping up when not invited for some local pooches.

[Frangyomory]

The Villages is know for being dog and cat friendly. I am sorry you have seen negative threads. Our Babe is the one who picked out our courtyard villa. She said she needed a private backyard and we that's what we bought!!! :bigthumbsup:

[SteveZ]

The Host has it right.

The nature of a lot of these posts is "I have a problem with" or "Something that bugs me is" or "Be on the lookout for." The posts are not meant to draw a line in the sand and dare someone to take issue for-or-against. Nor does the number of posts or respondees indicate a predominant attitude. It's just people being people.

I'm actually glad that there are a number of views and opinions on issues - major and minor. It's very healthy to let out this issues, and most of the times it's going to be more rhetorical than actionable.

Having folk around me who think differently on matters, and most of the time also being open-minded enough to engage in adult conversation about the matters is a positive to me. That's what keeps TV from being "Stepford." Just think about how dull it would be if we were all intellectual clones....

(NOTE: This message was approved by my two terriers...)

[Russ_Boston]

Just because someone says that they feel that the no-fence convenient should be upheld doesn't make that person anti-dog. I have never read an 'anti' dog post in my time on TOTV.

Anti-poop in my yard - Yes. Anti-don't break the convenient - Yes. But Anti Dog? Never.

[redwitch]

Sorry, here comes the anti-dog contingent. My cats HATE dogs. They would merrily claw every doggy that walks by their lanai. They get really mad when Chloe, the bison, or Sam, the lion-cut sheltie, go by and I'm home because I'm running out the door to go pet these curs. Chloe gets so excited, she even piddles on my driveway. Sam just waits for his treat. He'll now bark to let me know he's on his way so I have it handy. But the cats find all of this very disturbing. They don't want Sam to bark. They don't want Chloe to leave her scent anywhere within 50 miles of their home.

So, I'm truly sorry folks, but there IS an anti-dog contingency and I'm afraid that I have contributed to it. Please forgive me because I truly do love almost all critters (just keep the lovebugs, flies, crickets and grasshoppers far, far, far away from me).

[nhsnowbird]

Sounds like the Grandchildren thread all over again.

[villages07]

touche, witchy woman, way to put it into proper perspective.

I am not a dog owner but enjoy all the cute neighborhood dogs and see the owners acting very responsibly.

[SteveZ]

Hmmm.... Anti-cat - there's a REAL topic (LOL) !

[Taltarzac]

Hmmm.... Anti-cat - there's a REAL topic (LOL) !


They are usually indoors though, SteveZ? Have not seen a catwalker in TV yet. I suppose it will happen though.

[gfmucci]

...screaming children in restaurants...another "irresponsible owner" problem. To me, this is the equivalent of barking dogs at 11 PM.

Cats...in our existing neighborhood in another part of the state, cats roam freely outside, doing what they do, killing birds, climbing fences, leaving their leavings anywhere a roaming dog would. (not a roaming Dogwood, that's a portable potted tree, not potted in the sense of being stewed, but potted in the sense of being self-contained, but I digress...)

Are cats in TV contained within their property, or are they allowed to roam as in "semi-ferrel?"

[redwitch]

Cats are supposed to be kept indoors. There are some feral and some irrresponsible owners who let their cats roam. My girls have pretty much let me know that moving will not be an option. They've never had a lanai before and just know they're in kitty heaven.

[Taltarzac]

...screaming children in restaurants...another "irresponsible owner" problem. To me, this is the equivalent of barking dogs at 11 PM.

Cats...in our existing neighborhood in another part of the state, cats roam freely outside, doing what they do, killing birds, climbing fences, leaving their leavings anywhere a roaming dog would. (not a roaming Dogwood, that's a portable potted tree, not potted in the sense of being stewed, but potted in the sense of being self-contained, but I digress...)

Are cats in TV contained within their property, or are they allowed to roam as in "semi-ferrel?"


They seem to be indoors all the time with a few exceptions.

[nanci2539]

I have cats and I also feed some strays that come to my deck. Not being a TV resident (yet) I can only say there are no bad/mean/unruly pets; there are unruly pet owners.

Dogs and cats do not have a voice - they depend on us. Feral or stray cats became this way because some human tossed them outdoors and abandoned them. Same with dogs; we have had puppies dumped here because people think we're all rich and can take care of them. Its' sad and disgraceful.

I will never ever let a cat go hungry. I trapped the two that come to my deck and did a TNR (trap, neuter, release). These cats are too feral to be domesticated and the only life they know is outdoors. As long as they have food, they can survive the elements and have done so for the last four years.

Stray dogs and cats didn't ask for this life; it's a matter of survival when they come begging for food.

[Taltarzac]

I have cats and I also feed some strays that come to my deck. Not being a TV resident (yet) I can only say there are no bad/mean/unruly pets; there are unruly pet owners.

Dogs and cats do not have a voice - they depend on us. Feral or stray cats became this way because some human tossed them outdoors and abandoned them. Same with dogs; we have had puppies dumped here because people think we're all rich and can take care of them. Its' sad and disgraceful.

I will never ever let a cat go hungry. I trapped the two that come to my deck and did a TNR (trap, neuter, release). These cats are too feral to be domesticated and the only life they know is outdoors. As long as they have food, they can survive the elements and have done so for the last four years.

Stray dogs and cats didn't ask for this life; it's a matter of survival when they come begging for food.


I am not aware of any stray dogs in the Villages except for an occasional
"lost" pooch.

I have heard of coyotes in parts of the outskirts of TV. Did not an alligator kill a coyote or vice versa according to a Villages Daily Sun article a ways back?

[gfmucci]

Roaming cats, whether fed or unfed is as bad as roaming dogs...they all cause problems for neighbors not wanting to be subject to what roaming animals do (deficate, kill other animals, bark, howl or scream in the night, etc.). It is irresponsible to feed ferel animals, no matter how kind-hearted you think you are being. And justification just because it is a "cat" that can't be domesticated is no justification at all.

[The Great Fumar]

Aren't little Kitties and Doggies wonderful.. At night they are so much fun to watch as they tear into my trash bags and spread trash all over my beautiful driveway and I SO look forward to the morning when I can go out and clean it up ...And the little doggies are very talented as they are now so educated and pampered that they can poop and pee in little artistic patterns all over my front lawn ......I just love them so that it makes me want to hug them VERY HARD .... ;D ;D ;D ;D

The Pet Loving Fumar

[gfmucci]

fumar...I need to be your neighbor...we would make a great team!!

[chuckster]

:agree: well said fumar.......

[nanci2539]

It is irresponsible to feed feral animals, no matter how kindhearted you think you are being. And justification just because it is a "cat" that can't be domesticated is no justification at all.

I hardly consider myself irresponsible and where I always try to see the good in people, I take your remark as a person who needs to be educated about why feral cats (and I'll just focus on cats) are a nuisance to people who don't know how to deal with strays.

I feed feral cats but I also trap them and have them fixed. It's called a trap, neuter, release. If I'm going to take the responsibity of feeding them, the humane thing to do is to have them fixed so they don't bring you litter after litter. There are many no cost clincs that believe in helping stray animals.

Read this, maybe it will help you deal with ferals that "bother you"

http://indyferal.org/Literature/Nuisance%20Prevention%20Tips.pdf

[Cliff]

Talk Host, SteveZ, RussBoston, 8fmucci, The Great Fumar :agree: :agree: :agree:
nanci2539 - ever heard of rabies? Our pets get their rabies shots. Do the Ferrel cats? Want your grandchildren to pet one?

[ewstanley]

Tal,

Very informative link.
That site contains so much good information that I never knew.

Liz

[Taltarzac]

Tal,

Very informative link.
That site contains so much good information that I never knew.

Liz


Thanks. Here it is again. I was doing some editing. http://www.metroanimal.org/feral/main.shtml

[gfmucci]

nanci makes my point.* Somehow (and true, I don't get it -* and I've read all sorts of feral cat literature) cat proponents believe that just because the animal is a cat (spayed, neutered or the King of Siam) they are justified in promoting the free roaming of those animals throughout the neighborhood.* I think that is wrong.* Why not the free roaming of dogs that are spayed or neutered?* Guinea Pigs, Hampsters, Rats, Buffalo, Ferrets?* Why cats?* What special qualities do cats have that* their "defenders" find on which to base their rationale - other than their biased defense of their favorite animal's "natural tendency" to roam freely?* Well, every animal has the natural tendency to roam freely.* But does that justify it?* Hardly.* It is just disrespectful to your neighbors.

Yes, Cliff, I've heard of rabies.

[chuckinca]

I have been feeding feral cats for years and would not consider them as "free roaming" as they generally stay in my yard or close to my house. My next door neighbor complained that they killed her Koi fish but it turned out to be a free roaming raccoon.

[gfmucci]

"...as they generally ??? stay in my yard or close ??? to my house. "

Cats can be very general animals...and they stay close to home, usually not more than 4 or 5 neighbors away.-* in all four directions. ;D

[redwitch]

Wow! Poor kitties!!! Jan, you can now safely say that there are serious negative comments about cats.

Personally, I love my cats. Wouldn't give one of them up for anyone or anything. But, then, I loved my snake, my tarantula, my Old English, my Afghan hounds (and if there ever was a dumber dog created, I really would like to know what it is), my dad's beagles, my St. Bernard, my poodle, my 2 guinea pigs, 3 rats and 1 ferret. I even liked the skunk family that lived under my neighbor's townhome (probably wouldn't have loved them as much had they lived under my portion, but hey!).

Those that trap, neuter, release feral cats normally make sure they are immunized for rabies and feline leukemia, at least those that I know do. Should they be allowed to roam? Of course not! They live longer, better lives in loving homes. But most feral cats do not do well in homes. They are usually terrified. If they are fed, they rarely kill other animals. As to their defecating, at least they bury their messes. Hopefully, we won't get into discussions about what kitty urine can do to a lawn, especially since Florida has to have the ugliest grass I've ever seen -- heck kitty urine patterns in it might just be an improvement!

In the SF Bay Area, we had a pretty good solution. Feral cats would be trapped and neutered. Those that could be tamed to live in homes were put up for adoption. Those that could not were left to be feral but moved to a new location -- the federal women's prison/camp in Dublin. It was my understanding that the cats there were treated with love and many would happily come and cuddle with these women. In return, the Feral Cat Society would provide food, medical and flea treatments for the cats. Since the cats were neutered, the feline population did decrease and the last I heard they were down to about 25 cats there. It really seemed like a great solution for all.

I don't know how many feral cats there are in TV. I know I've seen a couple of cats around my home but I'm not sure if they're feral or just cats visiting the new girls on the block. They're cute cats and look well fed but I do wish their owners were more responsible and that, my friends, is where the responsibility belongs -- ON THE OWNERS. Don't blame the animal whether it be dog, cat or even alligator. They are doing what nature intended. It is up to the humans in their lives to make sure they do what nature intended in appropriate manners and in appropriate places.

[chuckinca]

gf:

Apparently you have no prob with free roaming raccoons.

[gfmucci]

I forgot to mention them... ;D* *True - they are pretty much in the same cat-egory* 1rnfl

I'm curious, do the community "rules" treat roaming of stray cats differently from roaming of stray dogs?

[art_cpa]

I can't imagine why anyone would be anti-dog.
:bigthumbsup:

[Russ_Boston]

I couldn't care less about this thread but maybe someone needs to find the defintion of feral since it has been tossed around all over this post. It does not mean a cat or dog without an owner. It does not mean just some poor kitty who has lost her way. I love both cats and dogs but feral animals are just that.

From Dictionary.com:

1. existing in a natural state, as animals or plants; not domesticated or cultivated; wild.
2. having reverted to the wild state, as from domestication: a pack of feral dogs roaming the woods.
3. of or characteristic of wild animals; ferocious; brutal.

[Barefoot]

I can't imagine why anyone would be anti-dog.
:bigthumbsup:


Gotta say, love the picture.

[nanci2539]

Those that trap, neuter, release feral cats normally make sure they are immunized for rabies and feline leukemia, at least those that I know do.

Yes. I make sure any cat I trap has a wellness test first. And yes, I am familiar with rabies and educated animal lovers would never handle a stray, feral or lost animal without using caution and/or gloves.

My ferals are given shots with one of those being rabies.

I trapped a beautiful cat three years ago. She came to my window and peeked in every night. It was mid winter and freezing. I put a shelter outside and made sure she was fed. A stray cat can find shelter but without adequate food, they can succumb to the elements of winter.

I trapped her; had her fixed and checked out. She was fine. My intent was to let her go after a few days but there was something about her that caught my heart. Missy is now my best friend and follows me around constantly. She brings me more joy than a lot of my human friends!

A cat born outside becomes feral in less than six weeks - why? Because they don't have human contact and have never experienced the touch of a human hand. There actions of hissing and growling are a survival instinct and also fear.

A feral cat has an approximate life span of 6-7 years. Any stray that comes to me will be fed.

Did anyone catch the story in the Sun this week about the woman who rescues strays. There's a place in heaven for her!

[Barefoot]

Those that trap, neuter, release feral cats normally make sure they are immunized for rabies and feline leukemia, at least those that I know do.
Did anyone catch the story in the Sun this week about the woman who rescues strays. There's a place in heaven for her!

Nanci, blessed are those who protect the victims of society. :bigthumbsup: I applaud your efforts and your loving heart.

[Cliff]

I don't know how we ever got on the subject of feral cats, but, it also amazes me that people interpret these comments as anti-dog. Folks, it is anti-ignorant dog OWNERS. Nobody blames the dogs. We blame the :edit: who allow the dogs to run free (against the law) and trespass on the property other than the property owner's. Hard to make it any clearer than that. Open your minds and allow a little light to enter. I love dogs but I only want MY dog to do his business on my property. I bought and paid for the land, it is mine and not yours, and I don't want your dog doing his business on it. :cop:

[gfmucci]

Did anyone catch the story in the Sun this week about the woman who rescues strays. There's a place in heaven for her!
Those who attract, feed, and leave strays to roam about the neighborhood will be lectured by the pearly gate police on how to be a good neighbor before they are let into heaven on probation!

[nanci2539]

Those who attract, feed, and leave strays to roam about the neighborhood will be lectured by the pearly gate police on how to be a good neighbor before they are let into heaven on probation!

Some people like cats, some don't. Same with dogs.

Story I mentioned tells of a woman who rescued a cat that was shot in the back. Animal cruelty is a crime - at least it is here in IL. Hurt an animal, you are heavily fined and most cases involve time in jail.

It's freezing here this morning - not even 25. The wind has the temps in the single digits.

At my window was Blackberry, a black stray cat that I feed. He was "chatting" with my cats and shivering. I brought two dishes of food (canned and dry) and I heated the canned food for him so at least he would get some warmth.

I'm not trying to bargain my way into heaven - I just can't turn my back on any animal in need.

I don't know what that makes me, maybe just an animal lover!

[Taltarzac]

Those who attract, feed, and leave strays to roam about the neighborhood will be lectured by the pearly gate police on how to be a good neighbor before they are let into heaven on probation!

Some people like cats, some don't. Same with dogs.

Story I mentioned tells of a woman who rescued a cat that was shot in the back. Animal cruelty is a crime - at least it is here in IL. Hurt an animal, you are heavily fined and most cases involve time in jail.

It's freezing here this morning - not even 25. The wind has the temps in the single digits.

At my window was Blackberry, a black stray cat that I feed. He was "chatting" with my cats and shivering. I brought two dishes of food (canned and dry) and I heated the canned food for him so at least he would get some warmth.

I'm not trying to bargain my way into heaven - I just can't turn my back on any animal in need.

I don't know what that makes me, maybe just an animal lover!


Good for you. They are all God's creatures after all. :bigthumbsup:

[nanci2539]

Good for you. They are all God's creatures after all. :bigthumbsup:
[/quote]

Well thank you, that was a very sweet remark. Animals don't have a voice. Humans can let you know if they are hungry, in pain, etc. A cat that comes to my window shivering in the cold is helpless and depends on kind humans. Same with dogs. Just a few years ago a beautiful puppy was dumped in our cul d' sac. The poor animal was scared out of his mind. We all stood around voicing our concern and ideas. My next door neighbor picked him up and said she would take care of him. What a beautiful loyal friend and companion he is today.'

So even though I am focusing on cats, there are mean people out there who toss aside dogs too.

Oh well, enough said; thanks for the positive comments.

[chuckinca]

gf:

Does that mean that I can't have a bird feeder either?

[gfmucci]

gf:* Does that mean that I can't have a bird feeder either?

That depends.* If you had a bird feeder that contained 20 lbs. of seed, had 20 feeding holes in it that attracted and fed 500 birds a day that pooped all over your neighbors patios, I would say "probably not."* The ruckus and mess created by how many birds equals the ruckus and mess created by one stray dog or cat in the neighborhood?* So it pretty much depends on if you give a hang or not about your neighbors, doesn't it.

[DENNIS G]

They are usually indoors though, SteveZ? Have not seen a catwalker in TV yet. I suppose it will happen though.


THERE USED TO A MAN THAT WOULD WALK HIS CAT ON A LEASH THRU SPANISH SPRINGS SQUARE. I HAVEN'T SEEN HIM IN A LONG TIME. SOMETHING MAY HAVE HAPPENED TO HIM.

THERE WAS ANOTHER THAT WOULD RIDE HIS CAT IN HIS GOLF CART AROUND THE SQUARES.

[Taltarzac]

THERE USED TO A MAN THAT WOULD WALK HIS CAT ON A LEASH THRU SPANISH SPRINGS SQUARE. I HAVEN'T SEEN HIM IN A LONG TIME. SOMETHING MAY HAVE HAPPENED TO HIM.

THERE WAS ANOTHER THAT WOULD RIDE HIS CAT IN HIS GOLF CART AROUND THE SQUARES.


Have not seen either of these. >:(

[lm01]

This kind of topic should have reached its end a long time ago. Sad that it is continuing on and on and on.

[Taltarzac]

This kind of topic should have reached its end a long time ago. Sad that it is continuing on and on and on.


It is off on a lot of tangents now like rescuing stray and feral cats and the like. :dontknow:

[Barefoot]

That depends. If you had a bird feeder that contained 20 lbs. of seed, had 20 feeding holes in it that attracted and fed 500 birds a day that pooped all over your neighbors patios, I would say "probably not." The ruckus and mess created by how many birds equals the ruckus and mess created by one stray dog or cat in the neighborhood? So it pretty much depends on if you give a hang or not about your neighbors, doesn't it.


I have forwarded your post to the Poop Police on Patrol. They promise to drop by your patio daily to make sure it is sterile. :cop:

[gfmucci]

Thanks!* :bigthumbsup: Too bad we need them... if people were more responsible with their half-way commitment to their "not quite pets" and more considerate of their neighbors we wouldn't need poop police. ;D

[chelsea24]

Taltarzac, I just noticed that you lived in Itasca IL. We're from Bloomingdale, IL. Close neighbor. My husband had his practice (Veterinarian) in Schaumburg for over 34 years! :welcome:
What a small world. Obviously we love dogs and cats. Haven't run into any anti dog people. But we've only been here a month. I'm not worried. I have no use for people that don't love animals and I have no problems voicing my opinions. Nice to meet you. :)

[Taltarzac]

This is off in a different dog direction, but I thought it might be a good place to get an answer:

Does anybody know of an on line source where dog Christmas ornaments can be found? It is easy to find an individual dog ornament here and there, but I want to find a source where lots of different kinds can be bought. And what would be really nice is if they came in sets and were not ridiculously expensive. This is for making a small Christmas tree of nothing but dog ornaments.


http://www.christmas-decorations-gifts-store.com/store/PPF/Category_ID/125/products.asp http://www.forpetlovers.com/christmas-ornaments-c-25_197.html

More expensive-- http://www.k9gifts.com/holiday-ornaments/index.html

[Taltarzac]

T,

Thank you for the website addresses.

BB


These http://www.segwaycollection.com/dogchor.html dog ornaments are neat but it looks like many are out of stock right now. Must be popular. :dontknow:

[Taltarzac]

Taltarzac, I just noticed that you lived in Itasca IL. We're from Bloomingdale, IL. Close neighbor. My husband had his practice (Veterinarian) in Schaumburg for over 34 years! :welcome:
What a small world. Obviously we love dogs and cats. Haven't run into any anti dog people. But we've only been here a month. I'm not worried. I have no use for people that don't love animals and I have no problems voicing my opinions. Nice to meet you. :)


My father and mother are from Itasca. I went back there in late Autumn of 1994 to help take care of an uncle who had lost an arm and a leg as well as part of his skull to a German tree burst tank shell. He had been on a scouting patrol in Italy in 1944 when this happened. I was helping my aunt out until my uncle could get into a nearby nursing home.

[mzmom3]

I just wanted to reply to everyone and thank those who took the time to help me understand. I love animals and the people who love them IF those people are responsible owners and care for their animals properly and take care when they come in contact with others or others' property. Sure are a lot of feelings about this subject!

[carole131]

I like dogs. I don't own one, but I enjoy them when I'm in their company (& most other critters, as well). My only objection is owners "toileting" their pets on my property. There is no reason for this. They can let their dogs relieve themselves on their own property & then walk them. Thanks for your consideration.