"Loud Music" Murder Verdict Announced

[janmcn]

Michael Dunn has been found guilty of three counts of attempted murder for shooting at the car that carried the four teen-age boys, but the jury is deadlocked on the murder charge. Under Florida law, each of these guilty counts calls for a minimum of 20 years in prison. Dunn will be spending 60 years in prison, minimum. If the state's attorney decides to do so, the murder case could be retried. Sentencing is set for March.

[buggyone]

That is good news.

Hopefully, the retired police captain who killed a man in a theater will get a hefty sentence like that, too.

Just a couple of examples of what can happen when people carry pistols.

[Dusty74]

Glad to see the guilty verdict. In both of these cases, the murderers should spend the rest of their lives in prison. Buggyone, I've got a question for you. A couple of weeks ago in St. Louis, a 93 year old woman was attacked by a group of punks playing the "knockout" game. After she was knocked to the ground, the punks surrounded her kicking her repeatedly. She was able to retrieve her legally carried handgun and shoot the leader of the group. The rest scattered like rats. Would you have preferred she be unarmed and murdered or carrying a handgun and able to defend herself and save her own life?

[buggyone]

Glad to see the guilty verdict. In both of these cases, the murderers should spend the rest of their lives in prison. Buggyone, I've got a question for you. A couple of weeks ago in St. Louis, a 93 year old woman was attacked by a group of punks playing the "knockout" game. After she was knocked to the ground, the punks surrounded her kicking her repeatedly. She was able to retrieve her legally carried handgun and shoot the leader of the group. The rest scattered like rats. Would you have preferred she be unarmed and murdered or carrying a handgun and able to defend herself and save her own life?

I would normally ask to see what your source of the story would be but I just Googled it myself as it sounded mighty heroic of the old lady - as well as mighty implausible. I found the article on Google and it comes under the "Urban Legends".

According to urbanlegends.com, it was a fiction story from a satirical online newsletter.93-Year-Old Grandma Kills 'Knockout Game' Thug? - Urban Legends (http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/Fake-News/ss/93-Year-Old-Grandma-Kills-Knockout-Game-Thug.htm).

Anyhow, glad to see we agree on the verdict of the Jacksonville killer and have the same hope on the retired police captain.

[redwitch]

Guess I'm the odd man out here. I'm very dissatisfied with the verdict. A young man was murdered because an old man didn't like his music or how loud it was being played. Four young men were endangered by this old man. One died. He was found guilty of attempted murder but the jury couldn't decide if he'd murdered the one young man??? He deserves the years in prison but the family of the dead child deserve justice as well. They deserve to hear that the man who killed their son, brother, nephew was guilty of that crime. How the jury couldn't decide on this issue is beyond me. Sounds like the judge wasn't too happy about it, either.

[shcisamax]

Guess I'm the odd man out here. I'm very dissatisfied with the verdict. A young man was murdered because an old man didn't like his music or how loud it was being played. Four young men were endangered by this old man. One died. He was found guilty of attempted murder but the jury couldn't decide if he'd murdered the one young man??? He deserves the years in prison but the family of the dead child deserve justice as well. They deserve to hear that the man who killed their son, brother, nephew was guilty of that crime. How the jury couldn't decide on this issue is beyond me. Sounds like the judge wasn't too happy about it, either.

You are not the odd man out here. I completely agree. Unfortunately, the state overcharged him with murder. They should have charged him with manslaughter which likely would have resulted in a guilty verdict.

[rubicon]

That is good news.

Hopefully, the retired police captain who killed a man in a theater will get a hefty sentence like that, too.

Just a couple of examples of what can happen when people carry pistols.

Hi buggyone: I view both of these situations as a micro view of what is happening to our society and why it is breaking down and I include the school/office attacks here.

We are becoming very uncivilized and moving toward being tribal. these acts are clear indications that people are becoming more and more frustrated, angry, etc as our society diminishes itself..

The easy answer and politicians love it is to blame it on guns because they don't want or don't know how to deal with real issues Beside which the gun issue is a populous favorite.

We citizens fall into politicians populous traps too easily.

We need to look at why people behave the way they do today. Is it because of what they are taught in schools? is it because of parents lack of responsibility? is it because of television, movies cult heroes? Perhaps it is all of those things and more.

I have been focused on what is being taught and not taught in our schools and universities and from my point of view it is focused and narrowed to progressive socialism.

for instance they do not teach the classic at many universities . Instead they have Gender/Sexual/Race based programs. One black student was quoted as stating why should I study Aristole, Mozart, etc when all they all were nothing but racist bigots. the classic are essential in understand all of humanity

Educational institutions do more to harm our kids than guns. It is a silent killer and no one is doing anything about it

Personal Best Regards:

[janmcn]

According to today's newspaper, state prosecutor Angela Corey has announced that she will re-try the murder charge case. There was no mention of what level of charges she will file.

It was also reported that the maximum penalty for the three counts of attempted second-degree murder that Michael Dunn was found guilty of is 30 years. The penalty for firing into an occupied car, which Dunn is also guilty of, is 15 years. A sentencing date will be set later.

[ROCKETMAN]

I agree with you 100%. Apparently there were several jurors who thought it actually was self-defense. The CNN desk anchor almost lost his cool when the verdict was announced. The anchor, don lemon, who is black later apologized. He can relate to this he said because growing up in a wealthy part of atlanta and being in a all white neighborhood, many times he was asked what he was doing arounf here. That he is going to do 60 years in jail is not the point, a young man died because the white guy didn't like his music. The parents of the murder victim were vary gracioius in the press conference after saying they will pray for the defendant. The prosecutor said they will retry the case under 1st degree murder.

[keithwand]

Better not have wind chimes if you are this guys neighbor.
I keel you.

[janmcn]

It is sad that the jury could not reach a verdict on first degree murder, second degree murder, or manslaughter, but all it takes is one hold-out. At least Michael Dunn will be a guest of the state of Florida for a long, long time.

[handyman]

And have rap music piped into his cell 24hours a day until he hangs himself

[logdog]

I don't get it. He has a mandatory minimum sentence of 60 years without possibility of parole. He will be 107 years old. Why spend another six figures or more of taxpayer money to retry the first degree murder charge... so he can get a life sentence?

[Bogie Shooter]

I would normally ask to see what your source of the story would be but I just Googled it myself as it sounded mighty heroic of the old lady - as well as mighty implausible. I found the article on Google and it comes under the "Urban Legends".

According to urbanlegends.com, it was a fiction story from a satirical online newsletter.93-Year-Old Grandma Kills 'Knockout Game' Thug? - Urban Legends (http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/Fake-News/ss/93-Year-Old-Grandma-Kills-Knockout-Game-Thug.htm).

Anyhow, glad to see we agree on the verdict of the Jacksonville killer and have the same hope on the retired police captain.

What? You cannot believe everything that you read on the Internet?

[Cajulian]

Glad to see the guilty verdict. In both of these cases, the murderers should spend the rest of their lives in prison. Buggyone, I've got a question for you. A couple of weeks ago in St. Louis, a 93 year old woman was attacked by a group of punks playing the "knockout" game. After she was knocked to the ground, the punks surrounded her kicking her repeatedly. She was able to retrieve her legally carried handgun and shoot the leader of the group. The rest scattered like rats. Would you have preferred she be unarmed and murdered or carrying a handgun and able to defend herself and save her own life?

Buggy one, you never answered this question. You wrote it off as an urban legend story. This type of scenario and many others like it have happened all over this country. There are tragedies on both sides of the issue. If it ever happens to you or someone you closely know, you then may be able to understand others opinions.

As for this killing of a young man, the jury heard enough to put him away for the rest of his life.

[llaran]

I agree with Redwhich - he attemped murder but didn't murder??? the other counts were on the table 2nd degree and manslaughter.

[buggyone]

"Buggy one, you never answered this question. You wrote it off as an urban legend story."

The story was FICTION on an online satire paper. It NEVER happened. Buggyone does NOT play the WHAT IF game.

[DougB]

"Buggy one, you never answered this question. You wrote it off as an urban legend story."

The story was FICTION on an online satire paper. It NEVER happened. Buggyone does NOT play the WHAT IF game.

Wow, Buggy, feeling kind of BOLD tonight!

[buggyone]

Wow, Buggy, feeling kind of BOLD tonight!

Yep, Buggy be one BOLD kind of guy.

[Barefoot]

"Buggy one, you never answered this question. You wrote it off as an urban legend story."

The story was FICTION on an online satire paper. It NEVER happened. Buggyone does NOT play the WHAT IF game.

Don't mess with Buggy when he be feeling bold. :Screen_of_Death:

[CFrance]

I have now developed a case of FOBB. (Fear of Bold Buggy.)

[Taltarzac725]

I have now developed a case of FOBB. (Fear of Bold Buggy.)

Is there a PILL for that?

Cannot see how any reasonable person would find shooting into a carload of kids playing rap as a legitimate claim to self-defense unless someone believed that the kids were actually armed and the shooter knew they were armed.

As to the knockout victim from the Urban Myth, there must be all kinds of situations where the armed senior is shot with her own gun especially if she or he is taken by surprise by superior numbers. Maybe, if the criminals take on someone like a retired Ranger, there might be another outcome.

[Bogie Shooter]

"Buggy one, you never answered this question. You wrote it off as an urban legend story."

The story was FICTION on an online satire paper. It NEVER happened. Buggyone does NOT play the WHAT IF game.

Tell'n it like it is.:wave:

[graciegirl]

I don't get it. He has a mandatory minimum sentence of 60 years without possibility of parole. He will be 107 years old. Why spend another six figures or more of taxpayer money to retry the first degree murder charge... so he can get a life sentence?



That is just what Sweetie and I thought when we were listening to that news last night. He is off the streets. So will the movie shooter be too.


Both had serious anger issues and should NOT have had a gun, but HOW do you legislate those kinds of things?

[redwitch]

That is just what Sweetie and I thought when we were listening to that news last night. He is off the streets. So will the movie shooter be too.

He's off the streets but the jury says he didn't murder the boy? How would you like to be the family hearing that? Sorry, but this family deserves justice in its fullest form and attempted murder for shooting at the car is not justice for them. So, I'd rather see my money being "wasted" for a another murder trial than just be satisfied he is off the streets. I sincerely doubt Dunn even remotely understands that what he did was wrong and now he has a jury vindicating that murder.

Personally, I think the Zimmermann verdict got a lot of folks thinking they could literally get away with murder in Florida. All they have to do is claim they felt they were in danger (popcorn in the face, a made-up shotgun and so on). Fortunately, trials like this with long sentences may get some to understand that stand your ground doesn't give you the right to shoot when someone gets you angry. It takes a lot more than that. Here's hoping.

But justice was not served.

[quirky3]

I agree with Red. He hit the SUV with 9 shots and killed one person inside. It was attempted murder, but not murder? Justice is still waiting to be served.

I live in the Jacksonville area where this trial took place and after being here ten years, I have discovered strong, original ties to the KKK that are still in force here. You should see the racist online comments from readers in the local newspapers' web sites.

Just recently, one of the local high schools finally changed its name after years of effort. It had been named after the KKK's first grand wizard, if you can believe it.
School Named For Ku Klux Klan Leader Nathan Bedford Forrest To Be Rebranded (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/17/nathan-bedford-forrest-school-named-for-kkk-leader-renamed_n_4457849.html)

Progress will be slow, but steady (I hope).

[Bogie Shooter]

I think State attorney Angela Corey has picked the wrong charge to try this guy and she made the same mistake in the Zimmerman trial.
Now she is planning to retry on the First Degree charge.

[quirky3]

Keep in mind that the jury also had the option of convicting him of the lesser charges of second degree murder or manslaughter, or not convicting him at all on those. They couldn't agree on any one of those choices. Hopefully the next jury will.

[Madelaine Amee]

I agree with Red. He hit the SUV with 9 shots and killed one person inside. It was attempted murder, but not murder? Justice is still waiting to be served.

I live in the Jacksonville area where this trial took place and after being here ten years, I have discovered strong, original ties to the KKK that are still in force here. You should see the racist online comments from readers in the local newspapers' web sites.

Just recently, one of the local high schools finally changed its name after years of effort. It had been named after the KKK's first grand wizard, if you can believe it.
School Named For Ku Klux Klan Leader Nathan Bedford Forrest To Be Rebranded (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/17/nathan-bedford-forrest-school-named-for-kkk-leader-renamed_n_4457849.html)Progress will be slow, but steady (I hope).

Unfortunately, I think you have this right. I saw a short piece of video of Mr. Dunn on the stand where he was being asked about what happened and I was amazed to see the hatred on his face and his words were "you're not going to kill me, you son of a b......", and he actually made the motion of pulling out his gun and shooting - right there in the witness box. A man with problems.

He obviously has anger management problems and I wonder what he is going to do when he is forced to live, eat and sleep with people who have a different skin color to his.

[buggyone]

" I saw a short piece of video of Mr. Dunn on the stand where he was being asked about what happened and I was amazed to see the hatred on his face and his words were "you're not going to kill me, you son of a b......", and he actually made the motion of pulling out his gun and shooting - right there in the witness box."

You can bet the farm that Dunn's lawyer advised him and rehearsed to do just that and with the same facial expression. This would give the jury the feeling that Dunn was under extreme pressure and that the shooting was justified.

Lawyers have phychological experts prep the clients and witnesses in exactly how to testify for the benefit of their best effort in front of a jury.

Murder? Most likely. Rest of life very uncomfortably behind bars. Very likely. Complete justice? No. Enough justice. Probably.

[Villages PL]

Personally, I never play music in my car but if I'm along side a car at an intersection, and their music is loud and vibrating, I dig it. I'll roll down my window a little to hear it better. However, having said that, a lot depends on the context. I'm in my car and they are in theirs and soon the light will turn green and we will go our seperate ways.

If you don't mind me keeping an open mind in this case, I think it's possible, considering what his state of mind may have been, that the music could have been disturbing and threatening to him. You can't just say, as many have, that he didn't like the music.

If he didn't like Andy Williams and they were playing Andy William's music at a normal volume, then you could say he shot at them because he didn't like the music. Otherwise, it's rediculous to say that he shot at them simply because he didn't like the music. You have to consider the entire context which would include the verbal exchange, body language etc., which none of you were there to witness.

The jury had the best chance to consider all the evidence so it's a good bet that they know more than we do. Why is there no respect for that?

[redwitch]

The jury had the best chance to consider all the evidence so it's a good bet that they know more than we do. Why is there no respect for that?

Quite simply because they found him guilty of three counts of attempted murder and, yet, a young man is dead. First degree murder? Probably not. Second degree? Certainly seems reasonable given the known facts. I hate to say it but given that it was a Jacksonville jury, I seriously wonder what the verdict would have been in other parts of the state or country. Bigotry and stereotyping can and does play a huge factor in jury verdicts.

[Villages PL]

Quite simply because they found him guilty of three counts of attempted murder and, yet, a young man is dead. First degree murder? Probably not. Second degree? Certainly seems reasonable given the known facts. I hate to say it but given that it was a Jacksonville jury, I seriously wonder what the verdict would have been in other parts of the state or country. Bigotry and stereotyping can and does play a huge factor in jury verdicts.

I have a question: It has been said that the car that was shot at drove off. But no one has ever said where they went or how far they went. Does anyone know?

[claricecolin]

they drove to adjacent parking lot about 100 yards away drove right back once realized Jordan was shot for help

Michael Dunn case: Opening statements begin in loud music murder trial - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/06/justice/florida-loud-music-murder-trial/)

[Villages PL]

they drove to adjacent parking lot about 100 yards away drove right back once realized Jordan was shot for help

Michael Dunn case: Opening statements begin in loud music murder trial - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/06/justice/florida-loud-music-murder-trial/)

Thanks.

Now something else has come to my attention: I heard from a lawyer on the radio that the convictions for attempted murder are likely to be overturned. So a new trial will start from scratch.

[janmcn]

Michael Dunn's retrial for first degree murder is scheduled to begin in May in Jacksonville, according to Prosecutor John Guy. The prosecution is wasting no time in getting Dunn back in court, IMO. This time they have the advantage of talking to jurors and finding out why they voted the way they did. Florida Prosecutor Angela Corey is clearly looking for redemption after the Zimmerman trial.