Difibulators

[foodcritic]

Looking for comments, pro or con about this new craze going around TV

[billethkid]

how about enlightening some of us about what the "new craze" is supposed to be?
Then I can comment.

[BarryRX]

new craze....saving lives.

[mrsanborn]

If you want to call it a "craze", it's a darn good one. People in your neighborhood ban together, train together and donate enough money to purchase, install and maintain the AED. Then there are the neighbors who have volunteered to respond to a call from the 911 center. These neighbors will give what assistance is needed until the emergency responders arrive. We are trained and certified in CPR and trained to use the AED. This "craze" could save your life if you were to go into sudden cardiac arrest. When you think of the size of The Villages, the placement of the emergency responders and the road system we have you will appreciate the response time of your neighborhood volunteers. To save one life makes the whole venture worthwhile.

[Matzy]

DEFIBRILLATORS, (AED's) usually located at Regional Recreation Centers, too.

[gomoho]

I feel very lucky to have someone in my neighborhood take the bull by the horns and get this in place. I also am amazed at the number of neighbors that chose not to participate but will still benefit if a 911 call comes from their home. There is an AED on the house directly across the street from me and I am comforted by this. I can't recall the statistics (go figure) of surviving a heart attack in TVs because of these AEDs but the numbers are impressive. Not a craze, probably a poor choice of words by the OP, but a life saving device. It's the real deal.

[swimdawg]

If you want to call it a "craze", it's a darn good one. People in your neighborhood ban together, train together and donate enough money to purchase, install and maintain the AED. Then there are the neighbors who have volunteered to respond to a call from the 911 center. These neighbors will give what assistance is needed until the emergency responders arrive. We are trained and certified in CPR and trained to use the AED. This "craze" could save your life if you were to go into sudden cardiac arrest. When you think of the size of The Villages, the placement of the emergency responders and the road system we have you will appreciate the response time of your neighborhood volunteers. To save one life makes the whole venture worthwhile.

I totally agree with you, my former neighbor from up north.....and my neighbor in down south.

I was recently asked to donate for an AED for our cul-de-sac in St. James. I was so happy to send that check. If it can save ONE life, it will be so worth it.

Thanks to those who volunteered & trained for this wonderful "craze"!!! I am very grateful!

[Lark7]

I concur with the benefit of the AED's. Hope that I never need one but, then again, it is just not about me - it is about our community.

[missypie]

You think this is a craze???? Really?????

Please educate yourself first.

I am so thankful to my neighbors that are taking the classes and taking this so seriously.. Thank you and God Bless.

[jane032657]

Our AED Program in The Villages is nationally known, recognized and looked at as a model program. We are on the leading edge of health response with this program and many others. Nothing is perfect but the neighborhood AED Program is a responsible response to saving a life when time is of the essence. There are over 110 AED groups in The Villages I believe. Thank heavens for Gail Lazenby who does the training. His eminent retirement will have a community impact. Our community raised $24,000 in about 8 months and is up and running with lots of volunteer responders. Bless all those who saw the value in a proactive manner rather than after a sad loss.

[Cedwards38]

We got them in my neighborhood (Sanibel) and if it saves one life, it's worth every penny.:BigApplause:

[Happydaz]

AED's are a life saver! What a wonderful program for the Villages. People here stand a much better chance of survival than any other place I know of, except maybe being in a doctor's office or a hospital when you have a heart attack. That is not a "Wild and crazy idea!"

[Mikeod]

AED's are a life saver! What a wonderful program for the Villages. People here stand a much better chance of survival than any other place I know of, except maybe being in a doctor's office or a hospital when you have a heart attack. That is not a "Wild and crazy idea!"
I think the figure given at our training was that you have a six times better chance of surviving sudden cardiac arrest in a neighborhood in TV with an AED than anywhere without one.

[billethkid]

let's start with a little clarity with definition:

craze (kreɪz)
n
1. a short-lived current fashion
2. a wild or exaggerated enthusiasm: a craze for chestnuts.
3. (Psychiatry) mental disturbance; insanity
vb
4. (Psychiatry) to make or become mad
5. (Ceramics) ceramics metallurgy to develop or cause to develop a fine network of cracks
6. (tr) Brit to break
7. (tr) to weaken

Conclusion? Poor choice of term/word/whatever.

We did our neighborhood 10 years ago. My wife is one of the neighborhood responders. We have a couple of neighbors who would not be here if it were not for our neighborhood decision (a no brainer actually!!).

We have 3 units on neighbors homes who volunteered their location.

The least insurance expenditure you will put out for such a life saving return.

Not sure what the intent of the OP was/is??

[pooh]

We've had our neighborhood AED's for about 5 years....so not really a new craze. There are two on our street...one is located on my house. Just recently all our responders have been recertified in CPR and AED use.

We do have a wonderful response here by paramedics, but every second counts when one has gone into cardiac arrest. It's comforting to know that friends and neighbors are willing to furnish funds and time for training to help me and me, them, should the need arise.

[cquick]

I am so appreciative of the people in my neighborhood (Sanibel south of Pinellas Place) who took the initiative to get the AED program going! It took many hours of organizing and there were so many people that offered to be "first responders" that they had too many!

[skyking]

I think the figure given at our training was that you have a six times better chance of surviving sudden cardiac arrest in a neighborhood in TV with an AED than anywhere without one.

As a former paramedic I highly endorse this program but the results are probably a bit overstated. According to the American Heart Association the national average for resuscitation following arrest averaged about 9% for the past two years. The "in hospital" survival following sudden arrest was 23%. Lazenby claims over 40% for the Villages. Every hospital has fulltime "code teams" trained physicians, nurses and respiratory therapists, responding with all the medications and resuscitative equipment available only in a hospital. Doubtful that volunteer residents with AEDs would be twice as successful.

[gomoho]

As a former paramedic I highly endorse this program but the results are probably a bit overstated. According to the American Heart Association the national average for resuscitation following arrest averaged about 9% for the past two years. The "in hospital" survival following sudden arrest was 23%. Lazenby claims over 40% for the Villages. Every hospital has fulltime "code teams" trained physicians, nurses and respiratory therapists, responding with all the medications and resuscitative equipment available only in a hospital. Doubtful that volunteer residents with AEDs would be twice as successful.

I don't think TVs numbers include what goes on in a hospital if a person has a heart attack. I believe these numbers are based on response time when EMT is involved and when you have neighborhood response getting there sooner. I thought I heard the response time in our neighborhood is well under 2 minutes. I am not a medical person and possibly have no idea what I am talking about but believe this is correct.

[TraceyMooreRN]

As a Registered Nurse- I can tell you that some type of intervention is better than waiting for EMS. An AED will not save a life in Respiratory Arrest- however will assist in getting more people at the scene to assist quickly. Train yourself in correct ways to perform CPR along with the use of AED.
Of course people have better survival rates in hospital-our response time is seconds with highly qualified people who have access to multiple pieces of equipment to save lives every day.
I hope that TV AED program continues to grow and educate more people on quick responses can actually save a life. We live in a community with age as a factor (if the only factor) to have a cardiac event. You can be quite healthy and your own genetic profile will result in some type of cardiac event which increases the odds with age.
One life saved in The Villages is worth having one in each neighborhood.

[Villages PL]

Personally, I wouldn't blame old age or genetics. If there's a family history of heart disease, a person should be eating a heart-healthy diet (a diet that many people claim is too strict). Genes need to be triggered by a poor diet and, secondarily, lack of exercise, and many are not even close to eating a heart healthy diet. Just look at all those who obviously sport huge waistlines of 40 inches or more.

If you are one of those people or have people like that in your neighborhood, I'm not surprised at your enthusiasm for these devices. But I see it differently. I see it as a big failure, a lack of personal responsibility as far as taking one's health seriously.

So, would I chip in $100. for one of these devices? No! Those who would do themselves in by eating junk-food will eventually do themselves in anyway. You save them once and the next time it will be during the night when no one knows they are having a heart attack.

It seems a big contradiction that we call The Villages "America's Healthiest Hometown" and then we need AED devices in every neighborhood. I would rather see people taking their health more seriously and educating themselves about how to prevent heart disease and how to reverse heart disease.

[eremite06]

May I ask PL, what happens if one eats right, exercises like Jim Kick but somehow, goes into defib due to an external force like a shock from an ungrounded electric drill or some arrhythmia? No fault of their own. Could happen to you! I've seen it.

During 30 yrs. of my career, I've used AEDs and performed CPR many times. It's all about the "Golden Hour" and a quick response. AEDs do save lives. I realize that 40% save rate is overblown and misinterpreted. My son, a Marion County fire medic, says that 40% represents a tactile pulse, not a save. BTW, Villages medics don't transport. They must call for transport to closest facility. But, again, AEDs are a good thing.

[Warren Kiefer]

Looking for comments, pro or con about this new craze going around TV

My neighborhood of 63 homes just completed a AED program. We have 20 first rsponders ready to go. Personally for me, as a first responder, I am excited I might have the opportunity to save the life of a neighbor or perhaps my wife. 99% of my neighbors participated in paying a share of the cost to get the program up and running. We had the necessary funds within two weeks.:a040::coolsmiley:

[pooh]

Personally, I wouldn't blame old age or genetics. If there's a family history of heart disease, a person should be eating a heart-healthy diet (a diet that many people claim is too strict). Genes need to be triggered by a poor diet and, secondarily, lack of exercise, and many are not even close to eating a heart healthy diet. Just look at all those who obviously sport huge waistlines of 40 inches or more.

If you are one of those people or have people like that in your neighborhood, I'm not surprised at your enthusiasm for these devices. But I see it differently. I see it as a big failure, a lack of personal responsibility as far as taking one's health seriously.

So, would I chip in $100. for one of these devices? No! Those who would do themselves in by eating junk-food will eventually do themselves in anyway. You save them once and the next time it will be during the night when no one knows they are having a heart attack.

It seems a big contradiction that we call The Villages "America's Healthiest Hometown" and then we need AED devices in every neighborhood. I would rather see people taking their health more seriously and educating themselves about how to prevent heart disease and how to reverse heart disease.

Sorry you feel that AED are only needed because of a failure in diet or lifestyle. Don't agree with you on this VPL....sudden cardiac arrest can be caused by congenital heart disease, electrical problems of the heart as well as CAD or heart attack. Children can experience sudden cardiac arrest because of a blow to the chest.

Not all of our neighbors contributed for the AED purchase, but if they ever need it used to restart their heart, it will be.

[swimdawg]

Sorry you feel that AED are only needed because of a failure in diet or lifestyle. Don't agree with you on this VPL....sudden cardiac arrest can be caused by congenital heart disease, electrical problems of the heart as well as CAD or heart attack. Children can experience sudden cardiac arrest because of a blow to the chest.

Not all of our neighbors contributed for the AED purchase, but if they ever need it used to restart their heart, it will be.

I totally agree with you. Having worked in the healthcare field for decades, I have seen it all. None of knows what tomorrow may bring....and although I swim a half mile daily and try to eat pretty healthy, I COULD be one of those who need that AED. If I don't ever need it, that would be wonderful. If ONE.......only ONE...neighbor needs it, I'll be so glad we have it in our "hood". If it is never used, that would be great, too! Better to be more safe than sorry.

I'm grateful for those in my neighborhood who went thru the time, effort and 'love' to see that we have an AED in our "hood".

[ilovetv]

As a former paramedic I highly endorse this program but the results are probably a bit overstated. According to the American Heart Association the national average for resuscitation following arrest averaged about 9% for the past two years. The "in hospital" survival following sudden arrest was 23%. Lazenby claims over 40% for the Villages. Every hospital has fulltime "code teams" trained physicians, nurses and respiratory therapists, responding with all the medications and resuscitative equipment available only in a hospital. Doubtful that volunteer residents with AEDs would be twice as successful.

The trained volunteer residents next door or 4 doors away from either of our villas' AED machines can get to the victim within 1 or 2 minutes, whereas the hospital personnel aren't going to get hands on them for much longer than that, especially if the paramedic squad is out on another call when this call comes in at dispatch.

The fire stations and paramedics are close, but if they are out on another call, the neighbor AED responders can make a difference between and death.

I cherish living amongst so many wise, caring and energetic neighbors. The grumpy, ho-hum few who did't want to contribute might be glad to open the door one night for the energetic, optimistic ones who got the training and stayed with the program.

[skyking]

The response time inside a hospital is almost immediate and they can treat arrhythmias other than fibrillation so there is no better place to have an arrest. Don't get me wrong. The Villages program is a great thing but Gail's statistics are suspect.

[Mikeod]

The response time inside a hospital is almost immediate and they can treat arrhythmias other than fibrillation so there is no better place to have an arrest. Don't get me wrong. The Villages program is a great thing but Gail's statistics are suspect.
Since you feel the figures are suspect, consider this. What do you think the national stats would look like if every community, every neighborhood, had AEDs and teams organized, trained, and easily notified automatically by phone and text message through the 911 system? And these teams can be at the side of the victim within a couple of minutes to begin CCR and evaluate the patient through the AED to see if shock is advised. Since every minute without care reduces the chances of recovery, wouldn't a system like increase the recovery results beyond what we see commonly now nationwide? Because what I described is exactly what we have in my neighborhood, and, I suspect, in other neighborhoods around TV.

[skyking]

Since you feel the figures are suspect, consider this. What do you think the national stats would look like if every community, every neighborhood, had AEDs and teams organized, trained, and easily notified automatically by phone and text message through the 911 system? And these teams can be at the side of the victim within a couple of minutes to begin CCR and evaluate the patient through the AED to see if shock is advised. Since every minute without care reduces the chances of recovery, wouldn't a system like increase the recovery results beyond what we see commonly now nationwide? Because what I described is exactly what we have in my neighborhood, and, I suspect, in other neighborhoods around TV.
My comparison is with "in hospital" rates. I am sure our program exceeds national "out of hospital rates".

[looneycat]

Personally, I wouldn't blame old age or genetics. If there's a family history of heart disease, a person should be eating a heart-healthy diet (a diet that many people claim is too strict). Genes need to be triggered by a poor diet and, secondarily, lack of exercise, and many are not even close to eating a heart healthy diet. Just look at all those who obviously sport huge waistlines of 40 inches or more.

If you are one of those people or have people like that in your neighborhood, I'm not surprised at your enthusiasm for these devices. But I see it differently. I see it as a big failure, a lack of personal responsibility as far as taking one's health seriously.

So, would I chip in $100. for one of these devices? No! Those who would do themselves in by eating junk-food will eventually do themselves in anyway. You save them once and the next time it will be during the night when no one knows they are having a heart attack.

It seems a big contradiction that we call The Villages "America's Healthiest Hometown" and then we need AED devices in every neighborhood. I would rather see people taking their health more seriously and educating themselves about how to prevent heart disease and how to reverse heart disease.

my heart attacks were due to a clotting disorder that did not show itself until the first heart attack and not diagnosed until well after the second. In both events my arteries were clear leaving the doctors scratching their heads in wondering why I had the MI's. A defibrillator saved my life one of those times, PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT , MULES BEHIND!

[Villages PL]

May I ask PL, what happens if one eats right, exercises like Jim Kick but somehow, goes into defib due to an external force like a shock from an ungrounded electric drill or some arrhythmia? No fault of their own. Could happen to you! I've seen it.

During 30 yrs. of my career, I've used AEDs and performed CPR many times. It's all about the "Golden Hour" and a quick response. AEDs do save lives. I realize that 40% save rate is overblown and misinterpreted. My son, a Marion County fire medic, says that 40% represents a tactile pulse, not a save. BTW, Villages medics don't transport. They must call for transport to closest facility. But, again, AEDs are a good thing.

Shock from an ungrounded electric drill? Sounds like that would be a rare occurrence. Wouldn't you have to be standing in your bare feet or in a puddle? I have used ungrounded electric drills many many times.

Mayo Clinic Diseases and Conditions - Heart Arrhythmia: The Mayo Clinic states that you may reduce your arrhythmia risk by practicing a heart-healthy lifestyle.

[Barefoot]

Personally, I wouldn't blame old age or genetics. If there's a family history of heart disease, a person should be eating a heart-healthy diet (a diet that many people claim is too strict). Genes need to be triggered by a poor diet and, secondarily, lack of exercise, and many are not even close to eating a heart healthy diet. Just look at all those who obviously sport huge waistlines of 40 inches or more.

If you are one of those people or have people like that in your neighborhood, I'm not surprised at your enthusiasm for these devices. But I see it differently. I see it as a big failure, a lack of personal responsibility as far as taking one's health seriously.

So, would I chip in $100. for one of these devices? No! Those who would do themselves in by eating junk-food will eventually do themselves in anyway. You save them once and the next time it will be during the night when no one knows they are having a heart attack.

It seems a big contradiction that we call The Villages "America's Healthiest Hometown" and then we need AED devices in every neighborhood. I would rather see people taking their health more seriously and educating themselves about how to prevent heart disease and how to reverse heart disease.

I don't agree with your cold-hearted approach. Not at all. I hope you never need the assistance of neighbors using an AED device. But if you do, I have no doubt your attitude will completely change. In the meantime, please try to be less judgmental.

[gomoho]

:jester:
Mayo Clinic Diseases and Conditions - Heart Arrhythmia: The Mayo Clinic states that you may reduce your arrhythmia risk by practicing a heart-healthy lifestyle.

Note they said MAY REDUCE not ELIMINATE. How many times have we heard of the ultra fit athlete dropping dead from a heart attack. It's not as simple as exercise and a healthy diet. If you are in a neighborhood that has an AED and are in the unfortunate situation of needing it to save your life you can thank the neighbors that had enough sense to contribute to this life saving device. And yes, if it is in you neighborhood and you haven't contributed they will still come to you aid. Personally I would feel like the biggest schmuck on earth to be in that position. But the good news is I would probably be alive to suffer those feelings.

[Villages PL]

Sorry you feel that AED are only needed because of a failure in diet or lifestyle. Don't agree with you on this VPL....sudden cardiac arrest can be caused by congenital heart disease, electrical problems of the heart as well as CAD or heart attack. Children can experience sudden cardiac arrest because of a blow to the chest.

Not all of our neighbors contributed for the AED purchase, but if they ever need it used to restart their heart, it will be.

The CDC states that there are about 1 million adults in the U.S. living with a congenital heart defect and there are relatively few deaths resulting from this. 41,494 deaths were reported in 7 years in the U.S. and a congenital heart defect might not have been the main cause.

As I've already stated, electrical problems can be helped by living a healthy lifestyle, according to the Mayo Clinic. If everyone did, this would be a very rare problem. A blow to the chest is also very rare. Most heart attacks are the result of coronary artery disease and a healthy lifestyle would make it an extremely rare event.

AEDs provide a false sense of security, in my opinion. You can't have AEDs with you wherever you go, whereas good health follows you everywhere.

[Villages PL]

my heart attacks were due to a clotting disorder that did not show itself until the first heart attack and not diagnosed until well after the second. In both events my arteries were clear leaving the doctors scratching their heads in wondering why I had the MI's. A defibrillator saved my life one of those times, PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT , MULES BEHIND!

You forgot to say what you are currently doing to correct your "clotting disorder."

[Villages PL]

I don't agree with your cold-hearted approach. Not at all. I hope you never need the assistance of neighbors using an AED device. But if you do, I have no doubt your attitude will completely change. In the meantime, please try to be less judgmental.

Your reply was personally directed at me, rather than addressing the topic.

[pooh]

The CDC states that there are about 1 million adults in the U.S. living with a congenital heart defect and there are relatively few deaths resulting from this. 41,494 deaths were reported in 7 years in the U.S. and a congenital heart defect might not have been the main cause.

As I've already stated, electrical problems can be helped by living a healthy lifestyle, according to the Mayo Clinic. If everyone did, this would be a very rare problem. A blow to the chest is also very rare. Most heart attacks are the result of coronary artery disease and a healthy lifestyle would make it an extremely rare event.

AEDs provide a false sense of security, in my opinion. You can't have AEDs with you wherever you go, whereas good health follows you everywhere.

Having good health is really not a guarantee one will live longer than anyone else. Life is a crapshoot, we live surrounded by dangers. While you may feel food and more importantly, specific foods are the primary and maybe only way??? to good health, many are of the opinion that it isn't the only way.

AED's are for a specific use....and may help....or they may not. Personally I can't imagine people feeling that having an AED gives them license to throw caution to the wind....apparently, you seem to think they might.

[angiefox10]

Your reply was personally directed at me, rather than addressing the topic.

With all due respect... and I do mean that. Your replies have been directed at other people as well.

Please try to understand, we all come from different places. Different diets. We were all raised differently with different educations in heath and fitness.

I work out and have most of my adult life. I eat well, but not as well a you. I don't know that I could eat like you.

My heart hurts when I read your comments. I care deeply for other people. I do a lot of things for my health that others don't do... I would still do everything I could to save their life as I would hope they would for me.

I guess that's all I have to say. You may have a healthy heart.... It appears to be very hard. I hope you can find the diet that will soften it.

[Villages PL]

:jester:

Note they said MAY REDUCE not ELIMINATE.

Yes, of course, whatever you do for yourself is all about reducing risk. There is never a 100% guarantee. They use the words "MAY REDUCE" because they can't follow everyone around to make sure they are practicing the best possible lifestyle. Most people don't even come close but their suggestion is still very worthwhile and something to aspire to.

How many times have we heard of the ultra fit athlete dropping dead from a heart attack. It's not as simple as exercise and a healthy diet.

Statistically, I would say it's very rare. And why is that? It's because athletes are always pushing themselves to test their limit. They often, unknowingly, create stress hormones like cortisol which can be very damaging. If they already have some underlying issue or predisposition, that will bring it out. It goes to prove that you can put yourself at great risk when you're doing something you're not supposed to do, exercising to the extreme.

If you are in a neighborhood that has an AED and are in the unfortunate situation of needing it to save your life you can thank the neighbors that had enough sense to contribute to this life saving device. And yes, if it is in you neighborhood and you haven't contributed they will still come to you aid. Personally I would feel like the biggest schmuck on earth to be in that position. But the good news is I would probably be alive to suffer those feelings.

It's strange how no one is ever expected to feel like a "schmuck" for living an unhealthy lifestyle whereby they need an AED, stint, and/or bypass surgery.

[Villages PL]

Having good health is really not a guarantee one will live longer than anyone else.

Longevity is not what this thread is about.

Life is a crapshoot, we live surrounded by dangers.

So the object is to do our best to minimize the dangers.

While you may feel food and more importantly, specific foods are the primary and maybe only way??? to good health, many are of the opinion that it isn't the only way.

What have you got as an alternative? I'll keep an open mind.

AED's are for a specific use....and may help....or they may not. Personally I can't imagine people feeling that having an AED gives them license to throw caution to the wind....apparently, you seem to think they might.

Well, actually, they have already thrown caution to the wind long before AEDs came along. The AEDs, in my opinion, will just add one more reason to have a false sense of security. Many will think they have done everything they can do and will go no further.

[BarryRX]

Personally, I wouldn't blame old age or genetics. If there's a family history of heart disease, a person should be eating a heart-healthy diet (a diet that many people claim is too strict). Genes need to be triggered by a poor diet and, secondarily, lack of exercise, and many are not even close to eating a heart healthy diet. Just look at all those who obviously sport huge waistlines of 40 inches or more.

If you are one of those people or have people like that in your neighborhood, I'm not surprised at your enthusiasm for these devices. But I see it differently. I see it as a big failure, a lack of personal responsibility as far as taking one's health seriously.

So, would I chip in $100. for one of these devices? No! Those who would do themselves in by eating junk-food will eventually do themselves in anyway. You save them once and the next time it will be during the night when no one knows they are having a heart attack.

It seems a big contradiction that we call The Villages "America's Healthiest Hometown" and then we need AED devices in every neighborhood. I would rather see people taking their health more seriously and educating themselves about how to prevent heart disease and how to reverse heart disease.

I just read your third paragraph where you say you wouldn't chip in. That's your right, but I don't understand what you say next. You say that because they eat an unhealthy diet, that even if we save them once, they will just have another heart attack during the night when no one can save them. It sounds to me like one of the previously unknown side effects of being a vegetarian may be the loss of humanity and compassion. Perhaps, if we save them once, even if they don't change their diet, we could give them another 5 years with their spouses, children, grandchildren and friends. Perhaps, if we save them once, they will be frightened into a more healthy life style. I think you are trying to make a statement about self responsibility, but that was a swing and a miss. I'd rather have a heart that has seen an occasional cheeseburger than one that has no compassion.

[Villages PL]

With all due respect... and I do mean that. Your replies have been directed at other people as well.

Yes, to people in general but not to a specific person in an insulting way.

Please try to understand, we all come from different places. Different diets. We were all raised differently with different educations in heath and fitness.

I work out and have most of my adult life. I eat well, but not as well a you. I don't know that I could eat like you.

My heart hurts when I read your comments. I care deeply for other people. I do a lot of things for my health that others don't do... I would still do everything I could to save their life as I would hope they would for me.

I guess that's all I have to say. You may have a healthy heart.... It appears to be very hard. I hope you can find the diet that will soften it.

There's nothing like being insulted in a nice way. Thank you very much.

[Villages PL]

I just read your second paragraph where you say you wouldn't chip in. That's your right, but I don't understand what you say next. You say that because they eat an unhealthy diet, that even if we save them once, they will just have another heart attack during the night when no one can save them. It sounds to me like one of the previously unknown side effects of being a vegetarian may be the loss of humanity and compassion. Perhaps, if we save them once, even if they don't change their diet, we could give them another 5 years with their spouses, children, grandchildren and friends. Perhaps, if we save them once, they will be frightened into a more healthy life style. I think you are trying to make a statement about self responsibility, but that was a swing and a miss. I'd rather have a heart that has seen an occasional cheeseburger than one that has no compassion.

Your post is more of a personal attack against me than anything else. If you would care to restate it I'll be glad to respond.

[BarryRX]

Your post is more of a personal attack against me than anything else. If you would care to restate it I'll be glad to respond.

Perhaps I misunderstood the point you were trying to make in your third paragraph where you say "Those who would do themselves in by eating junk-food will eventually do themselves in anyway. You save them once and the next time it will be during the night when no one knows they are having a heart attack. " It sounds to me like you are saying that if a person is eating an unhealthy diet, we should not try to save their life. Did I misunderstand the intent of your words. If that is not what you meant, then I apologize. If it is what you meant, I must stick to my original comment that I find that position heartless. It is not an attack on you, but a comment on your position. For example, if you were a first responder for the AED program and were called to aid a neighbor who ate at McDonalds every day. Would you refuse to help and let him die because of your previously stated beliefs, or would you help save his life despite your beliefs. If you do the first, then it is you who are heartless. If you do the second, it is only your position that lacks compassion. What would you do? Are only vegetarians worth saving, or are we all worth saving?

[angiefox10]

Yes, to people in general but not to a specific person in an insulting way.



There's nothing like being insulted in a nice way. Thank you very much.

As a rule, when someone says "with all due respect" they don't respect the person... In this case it would be incorrect. I respect your knowledge on the subject of food and healthy living. I try to live a healthy lifestyle and for the most part I do. Just not like you. I rarely eat meat of any kind but on occasion do. I do eat fish. I eat an occasional dessert.

When people like you write... I read... and take baby steps to change my habits. I don't try to do it all at once so that my body doesn't notice what I'm doing.

I hope to be an example as people have been for me. By being an example, people will change.

Your comments indicate that you don't think they will change. Sometimes, it takes a jolt like a heart attack for someone to make that change. We all know people who have been brought back to life and changed the way they live. I've seen people eat better, start working out, and stop smoking.

Most of them had to die and be brought back to get there... But they did.

I wasn't trying to insult you. I was trying to get you to see through my eyes. Maybe you can... Maybe you can't

Peace....

[Mikeod]

My comparison is with "in hospital" rates. I am sure our program exceeds national "out of hospital rates".
But the discussion is what we can do before the pros arrive, i.e., out of the hospital. As you know, we are working on a dead person. If we can provide any assistance that restores an effective heart rhythm and respiration, we have given a dead person a chance for survival. Whether that translates into true recovery is not our goal. We just want to get him to the hospital with a chance.

[pooh]

The CDC states that there are about 1 million adults in the U.S. living with a congenital heart defect and there are relatively few deaths resulting from this. 41,494 deaths were reported in 7 years in the U.S. and a congenital heart defect might not have been the main cause.

As I've already stated, electrical problems can be helped by living a healthy lifestyle, according to the Mayo Clinic. If everyone did, this would be a very rare problem. A blow to the chest is also very rare. Most heart attacks are the result of coronary artery disease and a healthy lifestyle would make it an extremely rare event.

AEDs provide a false sense of security, in my opinion. You can't have AEDs with you wherever you go, whereas good health follows you everywhere.

May you never have the need for CPR or an AED shock, VPL....I mean that sincerely.

[ilovetv]

Regarding "AEDs provide a false sense of security, in my opinion. You can't have AEDs with you wherever you go, whereas good health follows you everywhere."

VPL, following this line of opinion, Ambulances, Policemen and Firemen are a false sense of security, too. I mean, really. They can't be everywhere either.

Heck, a house instead of a tent as protection from a thunder, lightning, hail, or wind storm is a false sense of security, too. So should everybody live in a tent because that is "healthier" and closer to nature, too?

[Suzi]

To my knowledge, no one lives forever - regardless if you are a vegetarian or not. We all have the "right" to make choices in life and along the way most of us have chosen poorly. Maybe its food choices, maybe exercising too much causing orthopedic problems or maybe its speeding in our cart.....whatever ! We have no one to answer to about how we have lived our lives except our maker. The one thing we all DO have in common is our humanity. If I am a first responder, it is NOT MY JOB to sort out that persons lifestyle. That is "above my pay scale". I will offer my assistance because we have a "connection".........we are human. If they survive or not is up to a higher power - let him sort it out.

[looneycat]

You forgot to say what you are currently doing to correct your "clotting disorder."

anticoagulants, my diet was always good and my waist is 34, thank you.

[eremite06]

PL: You try to get the world to eat right and we'll save lives with AEDs.

[Villages PL]

Perhaps I misunderstood the point you were trying to make in your third paragraph where you say "Those who would do themselves in by eating junk-food will eventually do themselves in anyway. You save them once and the next time it will be during the night when no one knows they are having a heart attack. " It sounds to me like you are saying that if a person is eating an unhealthy diet, we should not try to save their life.

I was just trying to indicate the futility of trying to save people who are hell-bent on destroying themselves. I had a neighbor, before I moved to The Villages, who suffered a heart attack and was in intensive care for 10 days. During those ten days he obviously couldn't smoke and he told me he didn't mind not smoking - he didn't miss it. So, as I talked to him in the yard, I noticed that he lit up a cigarette and I asked him why he started smoking again if he didn't miss not smoking in the hospital. He replied that he just liked smoking, so I dropped the subject. At that moment I knew he was going to get another heart attack before long and next time he might not be so lucky to be saved. Well, a short time later, probobly several weeks, he had another heart attack and died.

The first time he was helping out as a salesman in his brother-in-law's furniture store and people there called an ambulance. That's how his life was saved. He lived in back of the store and the second heart attack happened while he was home alone. He was semi-retired and his wife worked full time, so she wasn't there to call 911. He wasn't very far from people who could have saved him if they had known. If they had had an AED device in the store it wouldn't have done him any good. These devices, and the people who operate them, can't follow people around everywhere they go.

Only a person's good health-habits will follow them wherever they go. And that gets to the root of the problem. That's what I would prefer to focus on, rather than something that would likely give a false sense of security.

Of course I would try my best to save anyone if I could, but I just don't like this AED program because I believe it lulls people into a false sense of securiity.

[Parker]

Food, schmood. If I'm around when ANY of you have a heart attack, I'll do my best to help you. A well-placed AED might help in that situation. Bravo to the supporters of this wonderful community effort.

[Barefoot]

PL: You try to get the world to eat right and we'll save lives with AEDs.


Food, schmood. If I'm around when ANY of you have a heart attack, I'll do my best to help you. A well-placed AED might help in that situation. Bravo to the supporters of this wonderful community effort.

:agree: It's wonderful how supporters have gotten on board with this community effort.

[ilovetv]

VPL, regarding this:

"Of course I would try my best to save anyone if I could, but I just don't like this AED program because I believe it lulls people into a false sense of securiity.".........

We want and fund and train neighbors and pay for the contracted dispatching fees for our AED program because of pure and simple logic:

A. S____ happens.

B. The paramedics can easily be out on another call when a neighbor calls 911 for their help. It makes sense to
have a Plan B.

C. In a tragedy, people always look back and wish they could have done more to help/correct the problem. We whose neighborhoods organize, train and fund ourselves to work an AED program will be able to look back and say "we did all that we could" to avert a tragedy.

D. Even when one eats a "perfect", "healthy" diet....... S____ still happens.

[Villages PL]

As a rule, when someone says "with all due respect" they don't respect the person... In this case it would be incorrect. I respect your knowledge on the subject of food and healthy living. I try to live a healthy lifestyle and for the most part I do. Just not like you. I rarely eat meat of any kind but on occasion do. I do eat fish. I eat an occasional dessert.

When people like you write... I read... and take baby steps to change my habits. I don't try to do it all at once so that my body doesn't notice what I'm doing.

I hope to be an example as people have been for me. By being an example, people will change.

Your comments indicate that you don't think they will change. Sometimes, it takes a jolt like a heart attack for someone to make that change. We all know people who have been brought back to life and changed the way they live. I've seen people eat better, start working out, and stop smoking.

Most of them had to die and be brought back to get there... But they did.

I wasn't trying to insult you. I was trying to get you to see through my eyes. Maybe you can... Maybe you can't

Peace....

Thanks for clarifying your position, it sounds like you have a healthy outlook. Unfortunately, I haven't known anyone who changed for good. Perhaps a couple of people on this website, but not anyone I've known in person, like neighbors or relatives. In fact, I have witnessed plenty of examples of the opposite.

For example, I had an overweight neighbor-friend who suffered a really bad stroke and had to live in a nursing home for several months. When he finally came home, I asked him if his doctor had recommended any special diet. He said, "yes" but quickly pointed out that he had no intention of following it. So it was only a few months before he suffered a second stroke and went back to the same nursing home. His wife said she doubted that he would ever be coming home again. He was only 50 years old and had two teenagers at home.

I have lots of these stories. There was even one person who made a good effort to eat healthy, got his arteries cleaned up, then got bored with eating healthy and went back to his old ways and had to get bypass surgery.

[gomoho]

It's just another line of defense - don't believe it is lulling anyone into a false sense of security. People's sense of security is firmly in place before they move to The Villages and notice their neighborhood has an AED.

[Villages PL]

May you never have the need for CPR or an AED shock, VPL....I mean that sincerely.

Thank you. I'm pretty certain that I won't need it. There's no history of heart disease in my large extended family, that includes grandparents, parents, siblings, Aunts, Uncles and cousins.

And whenever I go to my doctor for a check up, my blood pressure is usually 100 over 50, without medication. That's the number one indicator of heart health. If someone has coronary artery disease, their blood pressure, as a general rule, will go up as the disease progresses.

How about you? Hope you're doing well too.

[Villages PL]

Regarding
VPL, following this line of opinion, Ambulances, Policemen and Firemen are a false sense of security, too. I mean, really. They can't be everywhere either.

I guess the difference is that Ambulances are needed for a wide variety of health related emergencies. So we can't seem to do without them and we don't have a choice. Perhaps some people do get a false sense of security knowing that an ambulance can get to them in a few minutes. Some people think the community health system will do it all with no healthy-lifestyle effort needed on their part. Policemen and firemen? You can be in the best of health and you still might need them.

Heck, a house instead of a tent as protection from a thunder, lightning, hail, or wind storm is a false sense of security, too. So should everybody live in a tent because that is "healthier" and closer to nature, too?

LOL, the main problem here is that I wouldn't be able to fit all of my creature comforts into a tent, and I like comfort (not to be confused with comfort foods). Being closer to nature is not always healthier. I don't think my air conditioner will work very well in a tent. Also, I need my stove, refrigerator, kitchen cabnets, sink and counter tops to prepare healthy meals. Seriously, would I be able to perpare healthy meals in a tent?

[Villages PL]

To my knowledge, no one lives forever - regardless if you are a vegetarian or not. We all have the "right" to make choices in life and along the way most of us have chosen poorly. Maybe its food choices, maybe exercising too much causing orthopedic problems or maybe its speeding in our cart.....whatever ! We have no one to answer to about how we have lived our lives except our maker. The one thing we all DO have in common is our humanity. If I am a first responder, it is NOT MY JOB to sort out that persons lifestyle. That is "above my pay scale". I will offer my assistance because we have a "connection".........we are human. If they survive or not is up to a higher power - let him sort it out.

I totally agree, I just won't be chipping in for an AED if it comes to my neighborhood.

[Villages PL]

anticoagulants, my diet was always good and my waist is 34, thank you.

Anticoagulants have possible side effects, whereas you could prevent blood-platelet clumping through dietary means. Interested?

This is one more reason, in my opinion, why AEDs are not needed except for incorrect lifestyle choices. Let's learn what foods are helpful and what foods are harmful. Certain foods will cause blood-platelets to clump together and there are other foods that will correct that.

[Villages PL]

PL: You try to get the world to eat right and we'll save lives with AEDs.

Sounds good, how many lives have you saved so far with your neighborhood AED? How many lives have been saved in all of The Villages since the program began? Is there any follow up to see what the survival rate is? I would think that could be important to detrmine the effectiveness of the program. For example, there must be some study showing a comparison between simple chest compressions and the use of AEDs.

[LianaB]

How muh does this neighborhood program cost, to those willing to contribute?

[TOTV Team]

Everyone on this thread - please be reminded that you should never direct your comments at a user but at the topic. Everyone has different opinions so direct your frustration at the topic. We don't want to 'over moderate' or close threads unnecessarily.

Thanks in advance.

[BarryRX]

Sounds good, how many lives have you saved so far with your neighborhood AED? How many lives have been saved in all of The Villages since the program began? Is there any follow up to see what the survival rate is? I would think that could be important to determine the effectiveness of the program. For example, there must be some study showing a comparison between simple chest compressions and the use of AEDs.

Now I think you're asking the right questions. I believe that there has been some misunderstanding all along about Sudden Cardiac Arrest (SCA). SCA is an electrical problem that causes the heart to go into ventricular fibrillation. A heart attack is more of a "plumbing" issue. Sometimes, a heart attack can cause SCA. People who have heart disease are at a higher risk for SCA, but SCA often strikes people with no risk factors and who are healthy.

The only treatment that will restore a normal heart rhythm is defibrillation. Studies show that defibrillation within 3 minutes has a 70% chance of survival. For every minute after that, survival rates drop 7% to 10%. After 10 minutes, the chances for survival are just about zero. So, while I cannot give you a number for the amount of lives an AED saves, you can see that quick use of one certainly increases the chances of survival.

You also asked if CPR would do the same thing. CPR can help, but only by keeping the patient alive until defibrillation can occur. As you can deduce, it is much better to defibrillate immediately than to "tread water" and then defibrillate. CPR only buys a little time!

The American Red Cross and The American Heart Association strongly urge that all public areas, offices, schools, MD offices, shopping malls, airports, etc. have AED's and that all police and fire and rescue vehicles be equipped with them.

Some causes of SCA are congestive heart failure, aortic stenosis, cardiomyopathy, myocarditis, sarcoidosis, amyloidosis, infections, Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome, Marfan syndrome and other structural problems, pulmonary embolism, blood clots due to surgery, prolonged immobilization like long car trips, plane trips, hospitalization, trauma, or certain diseases like cancer. Also, potassium and calcium imbalances. Also, trauma to the chest like getting hit with a golf ball or softball.

I think this answers most of your questions. The survival numbers I have given are national and I am assuming they would be similar in The Villages. I could not find any statistics just for our community. Please note that I have only given reasons for SCA in adults. There are a number of reasons why this occurs in children and teenagers, and when it does it occurs without warning and to otherwise healthy kids. I would think the program would warrant support just for the slight chance we could save the life of someones grandchild.

Lastly, I would just like to comment on what appears to be your main reason for not supporting the program. You have said that you feel the program gives people a false sense of security. Since we are dealing in "feelings", it is my feeling that not one person ever thought to him or herself that it's ok to go have a cheeseburger and fries because when I go into sudden cardiac arrest or have a heart attack, and I am close to an AED, and everything works perfectly with the alert system, there is a 70% chance that I will survive. People do not have a false sense of security because of AED's, and in fact they don't even think about them during their day to day routine.

[Mikeod]

For example, there must be some study showing a comparison between simple chest compressions and the use of AEDs.
Erased my response. Barry's answer is more complete.

[graciegirl]

Now I think you're asking the right questions. I believe that there has been some misunderstanding all along about Sudden Cardiac Arrest (SCA). SCA is an electrical problem that causes the heart to go into ventricular fibrillation. A heart attack is more of a "plumbing" issue. Sometimes, a heart attack can cause SCA. People who have heart disease are at a higher risk for SCA, but SCA often strikes people with no risk factors and who are healthy.

The only treatment that will restore a normal heart rhythm is defibrillation. Studies show that defibrillation within 3 minutes has a 70% chance of survival. For every minute after that, survival rates drop 7% to 10%. After 10 minutes, the chances for survival are just about zero. So, while I cannot give you a number for the amount of lives an AED saves, you can see that quick use of one certainly increases the chances of survival.

You also asked if CPR would do the same thing. CPR can help, but only by keeping the patient alive until defibrillation can occur. As you can deduce, it is much better to defibrillate immediately than to "tread water" and then defibrillate. CPR only buys a little time!

The American Red Cross and The American Heart Association strongly urge that all public areas, offices, schools, MD offices, shopping malls, airports, etc. have AED's and that all police and fire and rescue vehicles be equipped with them.

Some causes of SCA are congestive heart failure, aortic stenosis, cardiomyopathy, myocarditis, sarcoidosis, amyloidosis, infections, Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome, Marfan syndrome and other structural problems, pulmonary embolism, blood clots due to surgery, prolonged immobilization like long car trips, plane trips, hospitalization, trauma, or certain diseases like cancer. Also, potassium and calcium imbalances. Also, trauma to the chest like getting hit with a golf ball or softball.

I think this answers most of your questions. The survival numbers I have given are national and I am assuming they would be similar in The Villages. I could not find any statistics just for our community. Please note that I have only given reasons for SCA in adults. There are a number of reasons why this occurs in children and teenagers, and when it does it occurs without warning and to otherwise healthy kids. I would think the program would warrant support just for the slight chance we could save the life of someones grandchild.

Lastly, I would just like to comment on what appears to be your main reason for not supporting the program. You have said that you feel the program gives people a false sense of security. Since we are dealing in "feelings", it is my feeling that not one person ever thought to him or herself that it's ok to go have a cheeseburger and fries because when I go into sudden cardiac arrest or have a heart attack, and I am close to an AED, and everything works perfectly with the alert system, there is a 70% chance that I will survive. People do not have a false sense of security because of AED's, and in fact they don't even think about them during their day to day routine.


Thank you for this very clear explanation.

[TraceyMooreRN]

Gracie- I appreciate all of your research. However, please note that just because someone collapses with no palpable pulse-does NOT mean that they should be shocked. The AED will analyze the heart rhythm and vocalize if the rhythm can be shocked into a possible normal rhythm. In other words- your heart must be in a rhythm of some sort to shock it to a possible rhythm.

If there is no rhythm- CPR and medications assist in obtaining any type of rhythm. Then the AED might come into play --but compressions must start while the AED is being hooked up for the best survival rate of the patient.

There are many reasons for a patient to collapse, CPR must be initiated first with compressions. If you are alone and witness a person collapse call for help and then start CPR. If there is more than one person available--ONE person start CPR, Second person call for help and get AED.

AEDs save lives everyday....thanks to everyone who has brought this program to our community.

[gomoho]

That wasn't Gracie's explanation - she was simply commenting on how good she thought it was. I am sure the responders in the Villages are well trained how to use the AED and what procedure should be started when.

[Mikeod]

Sounds good, how many lives have you saved so far with your neighborhood AED? How many lives have been saved in all of The Villages since the program began? Is there any follow up to see what the survival rate is? I would think that could be important to detrmine the effectiveness of the program. For example, there must be some study showing a comparison between simple chest compressions and the use of AEDs.
Interestingly, there's a report on another website about TV that Captain Lazenby saved a parishioner at his church by using chest compressions and an AED. The man was transported to a hospital and is now recovering at home.

BTW, the article indicates the AED was provided to the church by Capt. Lazenby at his own expense.

[TraceyMooreRN]

That wasn't Gracie's explanation - she was simply commenting on how good she thought it was. I am sure the responders in the Villages are well trained how to use the AED and what procedure should be started when.

I too am happy about the program and support the program 100%-just trying to make sure everyone is educated--this forum is a great way to spread education as well.

[HMLRHT1]

CPR with AED saves lives. If the arrest is witnessed CPR should be started until someone can hookup the AED to the patient. But you must be aware when you first check the patient whether the patient has a pulse and or is breathing. You don't want to do CPR on someone who is just unconscious or had a seizure. The AED would also help with this in informing the user to do or not to do CPR. I was told about 2 years ago that the save rate here in The Villages is about 40%. The national average is about 8%. So the more AED programs we have here in The Villages along with the continued training and retraining will most likely make our save rate improve.

[pooh]

How muh does this neighborhood program cost, to those willing to contribute?

The devices can be a bit costly....over $1000 when purchased for our street, then there is a charge for the alert notification plan. Not sure what the figures are today, but when there are many contributing, costs are not too much for individual families.

When our system was fairly new and all our responders had pagers, we got an alert one day to proceed to a house on our street. Quickly all the responders who were home headed to the address with two AEDs in hand. Thirteen people were ready. One person knocked on the door and we were ready to do what needed to be done. Slowly the door opened and a very sweet older lady appeared. I think we scared her half to death....;). Just as we were asking her if there was a problem, the rest of the page came through....it was a test. I'm so glad there was no problem and the responders were there with lightning speed....just felt badly that this poor woman was frightened. (We now have a different notification system)

[foodcritic]

CPR with AED saves lives. If the arrest is witnessed CPR should be started until someone can hookup the AED to the patient. But you must be aware when you first check the patient whether the patient has a pulse and or is breathing. You don't want to do CPR on someone who is just unconscious or had a seizure. The AED would also help with this in informing the user to do or not to do CPR. I was told about 2 years ago that the save rate here in The Villages is about 40%. The national average is about 8%. So the more AED programs we have here in The Villages along with the continued training and retraining will most likely make our save rate improve.

Would be anxious to see the statistics supporting a save rate of 40%. If anywhere near correct, that's a great testimonial to the professional response units in the area. Also would think that statistics detailing results in areas that have community AEDs should be available. It's possible these programs are being supported with only emotion and no statistical evidence of their value.

[HMLRHT1]

Foodcritic, actually I was off on my statement. According to The Villages Public Safety/Fire Dept here is their statement. The survival rate for sudden cardiac arrest in The Villages Fl last year was 44% – about 7 times the national average of only 6%. Contributing to this high survival rate are the many Villagers taking CPR training – over 2000 last year and over 7000 in the last five years; and neighborhood CPR/AED Programs – currently 44 with 8 more in training. I'd say they are pretty damn good percentages.

[Parker]

Foodcritic, actually I was off on my statement. According to The Villages Public Safety/Fire Dept here is their statement. The survival rate for sudden cardiac arrest in The Villages Fl last year was 44% – about 7 times the national average of only 6%. Contributing to this high survival rate are the many Villagers taking CPR training – over 2000 last year and over 7000 in the last five years; and neighborhood CPR/AED Programs – currently 44 with 8 more in training. I'd say they are pretty damn good percentages.

Wow! If accurate, I'd say those are newsworthy stats, so we should be seeing them on television news shows and newspaper headlines. Certainly in big lettering in The Daily Sun, wouldn't you think? I hope they are true, and wouldn't we all be just so proud of this wonderful community if they are?

[angiefox10]

Google it or check out page 15 District Annual Report for 2011

http://www.districtgov.org/departments/Public-Safety/AnnualReport2011.pdf

[HMLRHT1]

They are true and they are news worthy. They have been on the news and in the papers. But it's only one day worth of news and something else comes along. If people get involved, if people "witness" the event and act immediately then there is a very good chance of survival. CPR and AED Training and Villagers involvement along with professional response from The Villages Public Safety Dept and the Sumter/Lake/Marion EMS providers are what is making the difference. CPR and AED save lives!

[ilovetv]

This report (page 15 in link provided by Angie) is where Villagers being a hardworking, motivated and educated populace shows, loud and clear.

It's the people who make such a big difference. It takes time, energy, smarts, and dedication to train and be on call as a neighborhood volunteer responder in the voluntarily funded AED programs done as a labor of love.

We're not all just sittin' around playin' bingo and twiddlin' our thumbs!

http://www.districtgov.org/departments/Public-Safety/AnnualReport2011.pdf

[Parker]

Google it or check out page 15 District Annual Report for 2011

http://www.districtgov.org/departments/Public-Safety/AnnualReport2011.pdf


Well thumbs up for our Villages! Great post angiefox10.

[Villages PL]

Food, schmood. If I'm around when ANY of you have a heart attack, I'll do my best to help you. A well-placed AED might help in that situation. Bravo to the supporters of this wonderful community effort.

That gets to the root of the problem, people are eating too much food-schmood and they hope to be lucky enough to be brought back from the jaws of death. You might say they want to have their cake and eat it too.

[Villages PL]

VPL, regarding this:

.........

We want and fund and train neighbors and pay for the contracted dispatching fees for our AED program because of pure and simple logic:

A. S____ happens.

B. The paramedics can easily be out on another call when a neighbor calls 911 for their help. It makes sense to
have a Plan B.

C. In a tragedy, people always look back and wish they could have done more to help/correct the problem. We whose neighborhoods organize, train and fund ourselves to work an AED program will be able to look back and say "we did all that we could" to avert a tragedy.

D. Even when one eats a "perfect", "healthy" diet....... S____ still happens.


I see your point but I can't help but feel conflicted over it when so many people thumb their nose at any suggestion to practice a healthier lifestyle. How many even brag about their unhealthy habits?

[Villages PL]

It's just another line of defense - don't believe it is lulling anyone into a false sense of security. People's sense of security is firmly in place before they move to The Villages and notice their neighborhood has an AED.

And if there's no AED, do they feel they are doomed to die?

[CFrance]

I see your point but I can't help but feel conflicted over it when so many people thumb their nose at any suggestion to practice a healthier lifestyle. How many even brag about their unhealthy habits?

But how would you know that the person needing the defib is one of those nose-thumbers or, say, someone with a healthy lifestyle but a hidden congenital heart condition? Would you condemn them all to possible death because they might be of the nose-thumbing variety?

In my opinion we have an obligation to save any life in danger, no matter what. Who are we to decide someone should die because we don't like their lifestyle?

We paid our $150 share in our neighborhood for the good of our two streets.

[Parker]

So should we turn our backs on any of those less-than-perfect people who have not done all they can for good health? In my experience, all of us have weaknesses of one sort or another. I know someone who eats terrible, knows he eats terrible, but he is such a kind guy, does everything for others in so many ways. Everyone loves him. Shall we stand smugly by and let him die in cardiac arrest because he was weak in this area?

[Villages PL]

Foodcritic, actually I was off on my statement. According to The Villages Public Safety/Fire Dept here is their statement. The survival rate for sudden cardiac arrest in The Villages Fl last year was 44% – about 7 times the national average of only 6%. Contributing to this high survival rate are the many Villagers taking CPR training – over 2000 last year and over 7000 in the last five years; and neighborhood CPR/AED Programs – currently 44 with 8 more in training. I'd say they are pretty damn good percentages.

Maybe I'm not understanding this but I think percentages can be misleading. How much of that success is due to neighboorhood AEDs? How would anyone be able to know that? I vaguely remember calling someone to inquire about this a long time ago. And I was told that much of the survival rate is due to factors other than neighborhood AEDs. I think it had something to do with medications being administered in the ambulance rather than waiting to get to the ER doctor.

[Barefoot]

So should we turn our backs on any of those less-than-perfect people who have not done all they can for good health? In my experience, all of us have weaknesses of one sort or another. I know someone who eats terrible, knows he eats terrible, but he is such a kind guy, does everything for others in so many ways. Everyone loves him. Shall we stand smugly by and let him die in cardiac arrest because he was weak in this area?

I agree Parker. None of us are perfect, we all have weaknesses, and we're all worth saving.

I like the American Indian saying: "Never criticize a man until you've walked two moons in his moccasins".

[Parker]

[QUOTE=Barefoot;834741

I like the American Indian saying: "Never criticize a man until you've walked two moons in his moccasins".[/QUOTE]


Barefoot, how I love that saying. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention.

[Villages PL]

But how would you know that the person needing the defib is one of those nose-thumbers or, say, someone with a healthy lifestyle but a hidden congenital heart condition? Would you condemn them all to possible death because they might be of the nose-thumbing variety?

In my opinion we have an obligation to save any life in danger, no matter what. Who are we to decide someone should die because we don't like their lifestyle?

We paid our $150 share in our neighborhood for the good of our two streets.

I think I see where the confusion is. I'm not recommending that responders pick and choose who to save. Once your neighborhood has an AED, you must try to save everyone. I'm just saying, for example, my neighborhood doesn't have one and I'm satisfied with the way things are. I wouldn't be one of those trying to get an AED program started. So if there's no AED in my neighborhood, everyone is on an equal footing.

[gomoho]

I think I see where the confusion is. I'm not recommending that responders pick and choose who to save. Once your neighborhood has an AED, you must try to save everyone. I'm just saying, for example, my neighborhood doesn't have one and I'm satisfied with the way things are. I wouldn't be one of those trying to get an AED program started. So if there's no AED in my neighborhood, everyone is on an equal footing.

How on earth can a discussion of a possible life saving device be construed into everyone being on equal footing. This is the most ridiculous argument I have engaged in on TOTV. If there is something that could benefit even one person and save their life why are we even discussing this??? What difference does it make how they have chosen to live their life up till this point - we are compassionate human beings that hopefully look out for our fellow man. If you wish not to contribute to this effort, fine, but for heavens sake why would you feel so compelled to challenge it???

[BarryRX]

I think I see where the confusion is. I'm not recommending that responders pick and choose who to save. Once your neighborhood has an AED, you must try to save everyone. I'm just saying, for example, my neighborhood doesn't have one and I'm satisfied with the way things are. I wouldn't be one of those trying to get an AED program started. So if there's no AED in my neighborhood, everyone is on an equal footing.

VillagesPL, you have always made a very good argument for eating healthier. You have seen the replies here that differentiate between a heart attack and sudden cardiac arrest but are not absorbing the point. I believe you've become trapped on the wrong side of this argument and I don't want your present stance to hurt the "healthier eating" message you are trying to deliver.

[Villages PL]

Now I think you're asking the right questions. I believe that there has been some misunderstanding all along about Sudden Cardiac Arrest (SCA). SCA is an electrical problem that causes the heart to go into ventricular fibrillation. A heart attack is more of a "plumbing" issue. Sometimes, a heart attack can cause SCA. People who have heart disease are at a higher risk for SCA, but SCA often strikes people with no risk factors and who are healthy.

Some causes of SCA are congestive heart failure, aortic stenosis, cardiomyopathy, myocarditis, sarcoidosis, amyloidosis, infections, Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome, Marfan syndrome and other structural problems, pulmonary embolism, blood clots due to surgery, prolonged immobilization like long car trips, plane trips, hospitalization, trauma, or certain diseases like cancer. Also, potassium and calcium imbalances. Also, trauma to the chest like getting hit with a golf ball or softball.

Thanks for the explanation, but now it leads to more questions: I have an idea that some of the above may be very rare and some may not benefit from a jolt of electricity. And it confuses the issue of what is lifestyle related and what's not. And it seems that many of the causes are due to blood clots. What happens to a blood clot when you give the person a jolt of electricity?

What does a jolt of electricity do for congestive heart failure?

You did mention potassium and calcium imbalances and I'm glad you did. I think if people ate a well balanced healthy diet and were not overweight a lot of the above problems would not exist. I don't think anyone should be getting blood clots due to surgery, prolonged sitting, hospitalization etc. unless their lifestyle caused their arteries to become inflammed and clogged.

[Villages PL]

To my knowledge, no one lives forever - regardless if you are a vegetarian or not.

And no one lives forever regardless of whether or not they have access to an AED.

If they survive or not is up to a higher power - let him sort it out.

It used to be when a person became lifeless due to "God's intervention," that was the final word. It was said to be "God's will." But now days, God doesn't always get the last word. With the help of technology, man gets to decide if you should live or die. (Sometimes we say "rest in peace" and then there are times when we apply a strong jolt of electricity.)

In the Sunday Daily Sun newspaper, there was a story of a woman who "saw bright yellow and orange colors, and then nothing." In an instant she collapsed and became lifeless. God decided to give her the gift of a "perfect death." How could dying be any better than that? It was at the end of her "knitting club" meeting, she enjoyed the friendship of those around her, she had no forewarning and no pain. But God doesn't always get the last word.

So here are a couple of questions I have:

1) When a person becomes lifeless due to "God's intervention", do they get brought back to life out of compassion or selfishness? A lifeless body has no knowledge of ever having been alive; no regrets, no desires and no "wanting to come back."

It may be that the sight of death reminds us of our own mortality and makes us fearful. Therefore, bringing the person back makes us feel better (selfishness). How can it be compassion if the person has no knowledge of their lifeless condition?

2) Isn't it bad enough that we have to die once? Will technology now have us die multiple times? And isn't it possible that the next time may not be so easy?

I'm not telling anyone what to do, I'm just providing some food for thought.

[pooh]

Oh, but God does get the last word. It wasn't her time to go and she was in the company of people who helped with His plan....be there, with an AED to help revive her. It's all a matter of perspective...;)

[Happydaz]

I believe heart problems can show up as confused thinking. People sometimes ramble on and on. The more words a person needs to use the less likely what you are hearing has any truth to it. My wife and I are thinking of suggesting an AED program for our neighborhood. I would also like to learn CPR myself and learn how to use an AED.

[HMLRHT1]

Maybe I'm not understanding this but I think percentages can be misleading. How much of that success is due to neighboorhood AEDs? How would anyone be able to know that? I vaguely remember calling someone to inquire about this a long time ago. And I was told that much of the survival rate is due to factors other than neighborhood AEDs. I think it had something to do with medications being administered in the ambulance rather than waiting to get to the ER doctor.

If you ask any Dr in the ER or Cardiologist they will tell you that a persons "chance" of survival increases immensely if CPR is started right away. Adding an AED increases it more. But it depends on what is going on with the patient. Not all cardiac arrests survive. But they have a better chance. Read the American Heart Assoc. literature and it goes into more details. Yes, meds do help but if the patient is not profused for the 3-5 mins or longer it takes EMS to get there then all the meds in the world won't help. That is why there is such a huge gap between the national average and The Villages. There are other towns and localities in the country that also do the same thing as here. AED and CPR volunteers in The Villages works. How would anyone know if AED's and CPR volunteers work? Ask someone who survived! It only takes one!

[Ragman]

I totally agree, I just won't be chipping in for an AED if it comes to my neighborhood.

I would think you would do it for your less virtuous and judgmental friends.

[CFrance]

I would think you would do it for your less virtuous and judgmental friends.

Or for the fact that you just value human life, period. Which I think you do, VPL. Sometimes there are trade-offs where our value judgements are concerned. To me this one is not all black or white.

[Villages PL]

I believe heart problems can show up as confused thinking. People sometimes ramble on and on. The more words a person needs to use the less likely what you are hearing has any truth to it. My wife and I are thinking of suggesting an AED program for our neighborhood. I would also like to learn CPR myself and learn how to use an AED.

And yet some people say very little and still make no sense.

[Villages PL]

I would think you would do it for your less virtuous and judgmental friends.

If they would charge each resident on a sliding scale, based on how likely the person is to need CPR, I might consider it. ;)

[graciegirl]

If they would charge each resident on a sliding scale, based on how likely the person is to need CPR, I might consider it. ;)



Dear Man.


Sometimes accidents happen such as electric shock or a blow somehow to the chest that can cause a heart to lose it's rhythm and stop.


When I was asked by a kindergarten child, Why do people die, I would answer because they get very sick or very old or meet with an accident.


We can by virtuous living prolong our lives, but sometimes nasty germs or errant things can get in the way of our plans for a long life.


Enjoy this day, or as Quirky3 says, Carpe the heck outa your Diem.


Not just you VPL. EVERYBODY.


If we can't change our children's minds on things, it is unlikely we will with strangers.

[Happydaz]

And yet some people say very little and still make no sense.

So I see.

[Bryant]

Is there a listing of where neighborhood difibulators are located. I have been here 10 yrs and never heard a mention of it.

[Ragman]

Is there a listing of where neighborhood difibulators are located. I have been here 10 yrs and never heard a mention of it.

They are located in village recreation centers and other public areas. I sure a list exists.

Those in participating neighborhoods are known to the local residents. You can sometimes see them by the street and they are usually locked except for the neighborhood volunteers.

[getdul981]

VPL should have a Medic Alert bracelet that says DNR, since he feels that AEDs are unnecessary. I would hate to think that I had wasted my time doing CPR on someone that didn't want it. Just think, I might be sued for saving someone's life.

[Barefoot]

Is there a listing of where neighborhood defibrillators are located. I have been here 10 yrs and never heard a mention of it.

Good question. Bogie - can you provide a link for us?

[BarryRX]

Is there a listing of where neighborhood difibulators are located. I have been here 10 yrs and never heard a mention of it.
You really don't have to know where they are located to have it benefit you. Here's how it works in our neighborhood. One of my neighbors is a retired nurse and she spearheaded the effort to get one in our neighborhood. Those that wanted to kick in money did so...those that didn't want to kick in did not. We had a class on how to use them and we got some folks from the neighborhood that volunteered to be first responders. The AED in our neighborhood is kept locked in a box hanging from a fence by the parking area. The first responders have a key to the box. When someone in the neighborhood calls 911, all the first responders get a text message and a phone call directing them to that house. They go and retrieve the AED and hurry to the house. So, even if you don't know where it is in your neighborhood, and even if you didn't kick in for the cost, you will benefit. The only thing to determine is if you have one in your neighborhood. If you don't perhaps you can be the one to talk to your neighbors about it. I can just assume that this is how it works in other neighborhoods also.

[getdul981]

You really don't have to know where they are located to have it benefit you. Here's how it works in our neighborhood. One of my neighbors is a retired nurse and she spearheaded the effort to get one in our neighborhood. Those that wanted to kick in money did so...those that didn't want to kick in did not. We had a class on how to use them and we got some folks from the neighborhood that volunteered to be first responders. The AED in our neighborhood is kept locked in a box hanging from a fence by the parking area. The first responders have a key to the box. When someone in the neighborhood calls 911, all the first responders get a text message and a phone call directing them to that house. They go and retrieve the AED and hurry to the house. So, even if you don't know where it is in your neighborhood, and even if you didn't kick in for the cost, you will benefit. The only thing to determine is if you have one in your neighborhood. If you don't perhaps you can be the one to talk to your neighbors about it. I can just assume that this is how it works in other neighborhoods also.

Yep, that's how it's supposed to work in our neighborhood also. We all hope we never have to find out though. I suggested that we paint a big black X on the door or driveway of the people that didn't feel that this was necessary. That went over like a screen door in a submarine.

[Barefoot]

The only thing to determine is if you have one in your neighborhood. If you don't perhaps you can be the one to talk to your neighbors about it.

Barry, that is why some of us are looking for a link to a list of which neighborhoods have AEDs.

[Villages PL]

So I see.

See what?

[Villages PL]

VPL should have a Medic Alert bracelet that says DNR, since he feels that AEDs are unnecessary. I would hate to think that I had wasted my time doing CPR on someone that didn't want it. Just think, I might be sued for saving someone's life.

You must have been reading my mind, I was just getting ready to start a new thread on this subject. I might still do it.

[HMLRHT1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by getdul981
VPL should have a Medic Alert bracelet that says DNR, since he feels that AEDs are unnecessary. I would hate to think that I had wasted my time doing CPR on someone that didn't want it. Just think, I might be sued for saving someone's life.

A medic alert bracelet won't work. You must see official paperwork to be a DNR. But In most cases as good Samaritans you would not be held responsible if you did do something to save that persons life.