Letter To Daily Sun Editor: What has happened to good manners?

[Villages PL]

About a week ago there was a lettler to the editor complaining about men wearing hats in restaurants. Now, today, there's another letter chiming in, thanking the previous letter writer. They both see it as a lack of etiquette.

What they fail to realize is that this is a retirement community full of older people. This is not the place where they grew up surrounded by younger folks. There may be many reasons why older men wear hats in restaurants.

I think the most important reason would be because of the cold air conditioning dumping cold air on bald heads (or thinning hair). I'm lucky to have a full head of hair but it's getting a little thin on top. If I happen to be seated under a cold air vent, I might wear my hat too.

Elderly people often develop "cold air sensitivity." Especially if they happen to be dehydrated, and many do get dehydraded.

Another reason could be forgetfulness. The last time I went out to eat I had my hat on for about 5 or 10 minutes before I realized it and took it off.

Let's face reality, we are not getting any younger!

Give us old men a break. :ho: ;)

[784caroline]

How about after a game of golf their hair is messed up and they have no comb!!

[Carl in Tampa]

And there may be no place to conveniently put their hat; not to mention the likelihood that if they take it off they will forget and leave it behind.

The only time I ever wore a hat at the table, especially when eating out, was in Texas where I was wearing a cowboy hat. I went into a restaurant where there were about 40 people, mostly men, and all of the men were wearing cowboy hats at the table. There was no place to hang hats in the room.

I wore my hat throughout the meal. When in Texas, do as the Texans do. :ho:

[JB in TV]

I don't buy it. Sorry. Common etiquette is hats off inside.

Men – Hats can be left on…
•Outdoors
•At athletic events (indoors or out)
•On public transportation
•In public buildings such as post offices, airports, and hotel or office lobbies
•On elevators
Men – Take hats off, including baseball caps …
•In someone's home
•At mealtimes, at the table
•While being introduced, indoors or out (unless it's frigid!)
•In a house of worship, unless a hat or head covering is required
•Indoors at work, especially in an office (unless required for the job)
•In public buildings such as a school, library, courthouse, or town hall
•In restaurants and coffee shops
•At a movie or any indoor performance
•When the national anthem is played
•When the flag of the United States passes by, as in a parade

http://www.emilypost.com/everyday-manners/common-courtesies/479-hats-off-the-who-what-when-where-of-the-hat

[keithwand]

Women should wear hats and white gloves.
Well that was a nice trip back to the 50's.

[Cisco Kid]

The way it is now in The Villages. If you put your hat on a rack @ the door when you come in, it will not be there when you are ready to leave.

[gomoho]

Didn't we already have this discussion on another post???

[Cedwards38]

I know that it is common etiquette, but I really don't understand the rationale for that rule other than it's considered common etiquette. I just don't get it. I usually take mine off in restaurants, but I'm not bothered by others who choose to leave it on. Does anyone know the rationale for requiring men to remove hats in a restaurant?:ho:

[nitehawk]

Didn't we already have this discussion on another post???

I forgot

[Abster]

I'm from Virginia where many of us pride ourselves on etiquette and manners. We were all taught at a young age that you do not wear a hat in side. Period. You can leave it in your cart or car. I just assume nowadays most people don't know any better.

[DianeM]

I've always been taught that a gentleman removes his hat at the table but, when you come right down to it - does it really matter ???? If a casual Thursday night - no biggie. If a special dinner - then perhaps a hat should be removed.

[gerryann]

It's just plain old fashioned etiquette. It's almost gone, but I think it's just one of the nice things left as far as etiquette goes. If ya can't take the ole hat off, then keep it on....no one really cares. A lot of the "old fashioned" rules are disappearing....proper introductions, giving up a seat to a lady, opening the car door for a lady, (any door) , and the very biggest one is ( and I'm noticing this at the Olympics and it's really bugging me ) ......why don't these kids put there hand over there chest during the awards ceremony while singing the National Anthem????? In fact it bugs me so much that I'm gonna start a thread about it.

[justjim]

The way it is now in The Villages. If you put your hat on a rack @ the door when you come in, it will not be there when you are ready to leave.

Cisco, around TV the hats that I mostly see deserve the trash can ---certainly nobody nobody would take one. ;)

[DianeM]

It's just plain old fashioned etiquette. It's almost gone, but I think it's just one of the nice things left as far as etiquette goes. If ya can't take the ole hat off, then keep it on....no one really cares. A lot of the "old fashioned" rules are disappearing....proper introductions, giving up a seat to a lady, opening the car door for a lady, (any door) , and the very biggest one is ( and I'm noticing this at the Olympics and it's really bugging me ) ......why don't these kids put there hand over there chest during the awards ceremony while singing the National Anthem????? In fact it bugs me so much that I'm gonna start a thread about it.

To be honest - the door bit is nice but an antique. I'm capable of opening a door and holding it for a gentleman as well as vice versa.

I was taught that a man puts his hand on his chest and a woman stands at attention. I've never put my hand on my chest for the National Anthem. Just stand quietly with my hands at my sides.

[Hancle704]

What's next on this thread? Expecting everyone to stop at intersections where there is a stop sign, even if there is not a police officer in sight. Signaling when making a lane change or turning. Speeding in hopped up golf carts, shaving corners and not slowing down at intersections. Some folks expect way too much from seniors who have in their opinion, lived long enough to ignore rules and etiquette.

[wendyquat]

And there may be no place to conveniently put their hat; not to mention the likelihood that if they take it off they will forget and leave it behind.

The only time I ever wore a hat at the table, especially when eating out, was in Texas where I was wearing a cowboy hat. I went into a restaurant where there were about 40 people, mostly men, and all of the men were wearing cowboy hats at the table. There was no place to hang hats in the room.

I wore my hat throughout the meal. When in Texas, do as the Texans do. :ho:

It is considered ok etiquette to wear a cowboy hat while eating!

[gustavo]

I'm from Virginia where many of us pride ourselves on etiquette and manners. We were all taught at a young age that you do not wear a hat in side. Period. You can leave it in your cart or car. I just assume nowadays most people don't know any better.

I know better, I just choose not to follow an arbitrary rule that makes no sense.

[ilovetv]

Once, a few years ago, I saw my former boss in a restaurant with his family and it seemed so odd that he was wearing a baseball cap at the table. He was always a gentleman and was about 70 years old at the time.

A couple of months later, I read his obituary, which said he had lost a long and valiant battle against cancer.

He was wearing the baseball cap because of chemo baldness.

A baseball cap looks far better than most men's toupees (bad rugs).

There are far worse things at the table. Like people blowing their nose at the table.....eeeewwwwwwww.

[Polar Bear]

There was a little old lady standing at a corner. She had both hands holding her hat on while the wind blew her dress up around her waist.

A dignified southern gentleman came up and said, "Ma'am, you should be ashamed of yourself, letting your skirt blow around, being indecent, while both hands hold your hat."

She said, "Look mister, everything down there is seventy years old, this hat is brand new!"

[Taltarzac725]

There was a little old lady standing at a corner. She had both hands holding her hat on while the wind blew her dress up around her waist.

A dignified southern gentleman came up and said, "Ma'am, you should be ashamed of yourself, letting your skirt blow around, being indecent, while both hands hold your hat."

She said, "Look mister, everything down there is seventy years old, this hat is brand new!"


:a20:

I like it.

[rubicon]

I read an article by an enterprising female author who was addressing the topic of its time she explained how it was once improper to smoke in front of a woman and that back then men would exit a room stepping backward from a woman's presence so as not to offend her. Her defining point was that women could straddle the boardroom and the parlor and that civility was essential to society and did not interfere with such progression

Advance to today and what has replaced civility? Where has respect for oneself and others gone? Is it any wonder that we fail to communicate by agreeing to disagree. Customs and traditions are wonderful guidelines passed down from one generation to the next...and yes I know there are exceptions. If I am wearing a hat I tip my hat to a lady. I do not swear in front of a lady and always treat a lady as a lady even if some of them don't deserve the title

Our society is regressing and it is one of the reason for America's decline.

I opine you decide.

[perrjojo]

And there may be no place to conveniently put their hat; not to mention the likelihood that if they take it off they will forget and leave it behind.

The only time I ever wore a hat at the table, especially when eating out, was in Texas where I was wearing a cowboy hat. I went into a restaurant where there were about 40 people, mostly men, and all of the men were wearing cowboy hats at the table. There was no place to hang hats in the room.

I wore my hat throughout the meal. When in Texas, do as the Texans do. :ho:
As Burt Reynolds said in Smokey and the Bandit, " I only take my hat (cowboy hat) off for one thing". Actually there is one more reason a Cowboy hat is not removed. A good 7x beaver can cost upward of $250.00. They must hang on a rack or placed upside down on a flat surface or otherwise they will lose their shape. By the way, it is still good manners to remove your Cowboy hat but this is why most don't.

[bkcunningham1]

I know that it is common etiquette, but I really don't understand the rationale for that rule other than it's considered common etiquette. I just don't get it. I usually take mine off in restaurants, but I'm not bothered by others who choose to leave it on. Does anyone know the rationale for requiring men to remove hats in a restaurant?:ho:

"Until the cultural revolution of the mid-20th century, gentlemen wore hats. Normally a gentleman wore a hat outdoors, not indoors. And if he were a normal well bred man, he knew a passel of rules to follow regarding when to doff the hat and how to do so.

"Besides protecting a man against the elements, a hat properly worn gives him dignity. It also permits him to practice a small ceremonial, that is, an act recognizing the right, condition or social status of others.

"Unfortunately, the hat has found a poor replacement today: the ubiquitous baseball cap. In principle, I understand the practical use for this cap in sports. During a baseball game on a hot summer day, it shields the face of the player so he can see the ball in the bright sun. However, the mania of wearing baseball caps all the time and everywhere seems to me as irrational as it would be to wear football or motorcycle helmets all the time and everywhere. There is no practical purpose for such a custom. It is worn because it is in style, a fashion that promotes what is casual and egalitarian. It has become the standard complement to the blue jean, T-shirt and tennis shoes. This ensemble is what an American youth wears in public today, depicting our sadly proletariat mentality and way of being.

"The rules of distinction were thrown out the window with the baseball cap. It does not lend itself to protocol. No one lifts the baseball cap to a passing lady. In fact, today the young man may well see a similar cap on the head of the passing lady. It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even fine restaurants. Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility. A civilized man should avoid this mania." Hat etiquette for men by Marian Horvat (http://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/A045cpCivility_Hats.htm)

[ssmith]

Perhaps Bert Reynolds won't remove his hat because HE doesn't want anyone to notice HIS toupe!!!!

[batman911]

Gentlemen take their hats off when inside. Any excuse for poor manners is not acceptable. Isn't it easy to make excuses for poor behavior.

[TheVillageChicken]

I was raised in the deep south. I address ladies of all ages as Ma'am, open doors for women, return their shopping carts to the cart corral for them, etc. In a casual dining setting, such as at a golf course, my cap will stay on. If the setting is fine dining, I wouldn't have a hat on anyway.

[tommy steam]

Gentlemen take their hats off when inside. Any excuse for poor manners is not acceptable. Isn't it easy to make excuses for poor behavior.

But People do. :girlneener:

[BarryRX]

I don't buy it. Sorry. Common etiquette is hats off inside.

Men – Hats can be left on…
•Outdoors
•At athletic events (indoors or out)
•On public transportation
•In public buildings such as post offices, airports, and hotel or office lobbies
•On elevators
Men – Take hats off, including baseball caps …
•In someone's home
•At mealtimes, at the table
•While being introduced, indoors or out (unless it's frigid!)
•In a house of worship, unless a hat or head covering is required
•Indoors at work, especially in an office (unless required for the job)
•In public buildings such as a school, library, courthouse, or town hall
•In restaurants and coffee shops
•At a movie or any indoor performance
•When the national anthem is played
•When the flag of the United States passes by, as in a parade

Hats Off! The Who-What-When-Where of the Hat (http://www.emilypost.com/everyday-manners/common-courtesies/479-hats-off-the-who-what-when-where-of-the-hat)

More common etiquette:
Women should only wear dresses when dining out.
A woman may wear a hat in a restaurant, but a man should remove his.
No family member, except a small child should ever be introduced to employees.
Women should rise when an older woman enters the room.
To end a date, the girl should place her unfolded napkin to the left of her plate and look questioningly at her escort.
The male should always pay for the meal.
It is not proper for a single girl to have dinner in a bachelors apartment without an escort.
Men should stand when a woman enters or leaves a room.
Men should always enter a cab first so the woman doesn't have to "scoot" over in a dress.
Men should walk on the curb side of the sidewalk.

[buggyone]

More common etiquette:
Women should only wear dresses when dining out.
A woman may wear a hat in a restaurant, but a man should remove his.
No family member, except a small child should ever be introduced to employees.
Women should rise when an older woman enters the room.
To end a date, the girl should place her unfolded napkin to the left of her plate and look questioningly at her escort.
The male should always pay for the meal.
It is not proper for a single girl to have dinner in a bachelors apartment without an escort.
Men should stand when a woman enters or leaves a room.
Men should always enter a cab first so the woman doesn't have to "scoot" over in a dress.
Men should walk on the curb side of the sidewalk.

From the 1895 Book of Social Rules no doubt?

Common courtesy on the men's hat removal at ANY dining establishment. Any man keeping his on in a dining establishment is a crude lout. 'Nuff said.

[eweissenbach]

I generally remove my hat in a restaurant, but I can't see how someone wearing a hat - or not - affects anyone else's dining experience. I choose to save my indignation for more egregious acts.

[DianeM]

Seriously arcane rules. Glad that era is done.

[graciegirl]

I kind of think that in a primarily golf community where there is mostly casual dining, a gentleman may keep on his golf hat after his round and wear it while dining. Women similarly wear their visors to lunch.


But a man never wears a hat in church.

[mixsonci]

Basically, who cares, really, if someone is wearing a hat? Why should that bother anyone? Are we really all held to silly mundane standards now, who says, Emily Post? Who cares really. It's a free country, do what you want as long as you don't hurt or bother others. If you want to wear a hat, wear a darn hat, if you want to wear bright hot pink lipstick, wear it or if you want to dye your hair purple (Like Kelly Osborne) dye it?

[dillywho]

I am not bothered by the hats (am definitely of the era that taught that), but am extremely bothered by the disrespect for our flag. I quit going to some of the parades because of the ones too disrespectful and lazy to honor the passing of the colors. The flag does not have to be borne by the military to be honored. Many do not stand, do not remove their hats, and do not interrupt their conversations for those few seconds. I have noticed some of the gentlemen in wheelchairs struggle to a standing position and I truly applaud them. Not everyone is able to do that and I totally understand, but they do remove their hats, etc. The ones I take issue with are the physically able who show zero respect.
:swear:

[batman911]

Basically, who cares, really, if someone is wearing a hat? Why should that bother anyone? Are we really all held to silly mundane standards now, who says, Emily Post? Who cares really. It's a free country, do what you want as long as you don't hurt or bother others. If you want to wear a hat, wear a darn hat, if you want to wear bright hot pink lipstick, wear it or if you want to dye your hair purple (Like Kelly Osborne) dye it?

How about if I sit at the next table and belch and picks their nose (and I could name more)? Is that OK with you as well. After all, I is a free country.

[BarryRX]

From the 1895 Book of Social Rules no doubt?

Common courtesy on the men's hat removal at ANY dining establishment. Any man keeping his on in a dining establishment is a crude lout. 'Nuff said.

No, some are from the late 1950's and early 1960's. I can well remember when my Mom was refused entry to a restaurant on Long Island because she was wearing slacks. I have posted on a similar thread that I quickly learned to remove my hat indoors when in the Army, so I am one of those that removes his hat when inside. I just don't think that a man who keeps his hat on in a restaurant is a "crude lout". I long ago gave up the position of "general manager of the universe", and personally know some smart, kind, giving men who don't always remove their hats, and I prefer to judge them by those qualities.

[Cheryl]

Lol

[mixsonci]

How about if I sit at the next table and belch and picks their nose (and I could name more)? Is that OK with you as well. After all, I is a free country.

I also said as long as you are not bothering anyone else, so if you want to be just plain rude and disgusting, then go ahead and pick your nose and belch, you are free to do so, but you will also sit alone, so eat up

[eweissenbach]

Basically, who cares, really, if someone is wearing a hat? Why should that bother anyone? Are we really all held to silly mundane standards now, who says, Emily Post? Who cares really. It's a free country, do what you want as long as you don't hurt or bother others. If you want to wear a hat, wear a darn hat, if you want to wear bright hot pink lipstick, wear it or if you want to dye your hair purple (Like Kelly Osborne) dye it?

How about if I sit at the next table and belch and picks their nose (and I could name more)? Is that OK with you as well. After all, I is a free country.

I also said as long as you are not bothering anyone else, so if you want to be just plain rude and disgusting, then go ahead and pick your nose and belch, you are free to do so, but you will also sit alone, so eat up

Lol. Response of the day!

[beachx4me]

I'm from Virginia where many of us pride ourselves on etiquette and manners. We were all taught at a young age that you do not wear a hat in side. Period. You can leave it in your cart or car. I just assume nowadays most people don't know any better.

I am also from Virginia and yes, boys were taught at a young age to take off their hats. These days people tend to leave them on. This doesn't bother me so much as all the cursing (not nice words) you seem to hear in public. It seems to be in general conversation just "cussing" away, and sometimes it isn't always the real young folks either (older ones are guilty too). It makes me wonder what happened in the manners department for these folks. I am in my mid fifties and I can't believe how people conduct themselves in public like this, especially within earshot of children.

Just my little rant!!

[Shimpy]

I'm from Virginia where many of us pride ourselves on etiquette and manners. We were all taught at a young age that you do not wear a hat in side. Period. You can leave it in your cart or car. I just assume nowadays most people don't know any better.

Is Virginia the standard for the world???......What would they say in Virginia to men wearing shorts in restaurants? Rules and customs change thru the years and we need to accept the new. I've been in Fla. for over 60 years and it has always been a casual atmosphere. I remember my uncle visiting in the early 50's from Pittsburgh and always wearing a suit everywhere he went and getting stares. Wearing baseball style caps indoors is now ok as far as I can see except in high class restaurants. Going to Cody's for a beer and wings.......no problem.

[CathyandJohn]

Pardon me for inserting my two cents, but I personally believe there are worse things going on everywhere without beating down men who chose to wear their hat in a restaurant! Each to his own, most men who live here are retired and have earned the right to chose what they do with their hats. If it offends others they have a right to ask to be seated in another area. I say time to move on to something really important to those who live here.

[beachx4me]

Well I do declare, hats on or off - I say do what feels best for you. As for shorts, I can assure you that both men and women wear them everywhere in VA!!!

Now what else exciting is happening around here???

[nitehawk]

I'm from Virginia where many of us pride ourselves on etiquette and manners. We were all taught at a young age that you do not wear a hat in side. Period. You can leave it in your cart or car. I just assume nowadays most people don't know any better.

I'm from Texas - where we love our hats -- in or out