Hot water

[Bubbalarry]

Bought a Savannah Villa in Hadley Village and for some reason the electric hot water turned up high on the heater takes forever to get hot water in the master bath. Since they have water supressors and conservation rules on water and told what day to irrigate, you would think they would fix this.

I am being told this is normal, since the master bath is the furthest from the heater. Yes it is but 5 minutes is ridiculous.

[Barefoot]

:agree:
We also waste a lot of water waiting for the hot to kick in. (Is it just a Villa problem?) Water is a precious commodity; hate to waste it. Any solutions out there?

[redwitch]

Back in California's severe drought, I'd have buckets handy to catch the water while waiting for the hot water and use that to water the plants. A lot of work but at least my roses didn't die when everyone else's did and I didn't feel guilty about wasting water.

[Bubbalarry]

:agree:
We also waste a lot of water waiting for the hot to kick in. (Is it just a Villa problem?) Water is a precious commodity; hate to waste it. Any solutions out there?


May I ask what section your in and the name of your villa. I am in Hadley Village @ Hillcrest Villas and according to the builder if enough compalints are submitted they may be required to add a circulating pump to get us hot water quicker since Florida currently has drought conditions and the villages must comply.

[efrahin]

Bubba: It is unbeliable that you have to wait up to 5 minutes for the hot water. How many people dont even have cold water to take a shower with. Count your blessings.

[chuckinca]

You shouldn't have the hot water heater on high - medium setting should be plenty warm.

Remove the flow restrictors - they are there to save water but if you have to run it for 5 minutes they aren't working.

Open the faucet all the way.

Make sure that the hot water supply doesn't have a partially closed valve at the heater.

[samhass]

We have the same problem. What a waste of precious water.

[jadebox]

We wait too long for hot water in our ranch home too. At the sink in the bathroom the water is hot before the shower.

[Autoshow]

When we purchased our home in the villages 5yrs. ago,they asked us if we wanted a water circulator,I asked what is a water circulator,they explained that it keeps the hot water constantly moving,then when turning on the hot water it is there almost immediately.
Naturally it came with a large price as an upgrade and we did not take it.
Being from the north and with a home with a basement and the pipes in a rather warm area we figured we would need not it,because after a pint of water or so the warm water would be there.
Here in the villages the water will go through the pipes under the concrete slab that the home sits on and the place in the home that is closest to the hot water tank will get the warm water first and if your kitchen sink is farther away as in our case it will take much longer.( about 2 gallons longer)
The developer of TV knows this is a problem and should have included it all new homes and charge us for the circulater and not left it to the buyer to make the decision because most of us from the north are not familiar with such things,but he wanted to keep prices low to get us to buy.
It is to late to get one installed now, and if it was possible the cost would be way out of line.
In the mean time I will continue to waste water waiting for the hot water to arrive.
Seeing that the developer was not more precise in educating us on this problem, they should not complain when we waste water, including watering our lawn when this home owner feels like.

[golfnut]

I too wait for hot water and the farther I am from the water heater the longer I wait, I've nerver timed it but I would guess the longest I wait is less than 2 minutes. Bubba, have you actually timed it with your watch, I know sometimes like when I'm on hold with someone it seems longer than it actually is.

[JohnZ]

Here's a tip. To get hot water to the shower faster, turn on the hot water faucet in the sink as well. Cuts the wait down from several minutes to 30 seconds. I'm not certain why this works.....but it does for us.

[REDCART]

We own a CY Villa. Our neighbor installed a mini-circulator (about $250 installed) on his bathroom pipes right after he moved in. He told me that it was on a timer and would only circulate hot water during the early morning hours. About a year later he mentioned to me that he stopped using it because circulating hot water caused his hot water tank to use more gas. So you might save money on using less water but lose some or all of the savings on the higher heating costs. But it can certainly be done after the original build.

[conn8757]

I live in Florida all year. In the summer, you don't need to turn on the hot water to shower, its really really hot already.

[chuckinca]

Here's a tip. To get hot water to the shower faster, turn on the hot water faucet in the sink as well. Cuts the wait down from several minutes to 30 seconds. I'm not certain why this works.....but it does for us.



Opening two faucets at once gives the cold water that is in front of the hot water two places to drain and you get hot water twice as fast.

[golfnut]

when i'm ready to shower i'll man the master bath and send the wife to turn on the kitchen and guest bath, i'll be done before i know what hit me. kidding aside i too turn on the shower and sink at the same time and it's ready asap.

[SteveFromNY]

I'm not really sure how this couyld be changed, besides centrally locating the hot water heater in the house. The pipes have water in them, and if they haven't been used in a while, the water will be whatever the ambient temperature is around the pipes. This translates into "cold" water in the pipes. The hot water is in the water heater and probably a few feet up the outgoing pipe of the heater. Like waiting on a line, the people in front move first, and they all have to get out of the way before it's your turn. The longer the line, the longer the wait. The hot water is the same way. In my house, (a Gardenia) the master shower is literally on the other side of the wall from the HWH. So it takes only seconds to get hot water to that shower. The second bath is on the opposite side of the house, and it takes some time to get the hot water there. Anything that would keep the hot water hotter or circulating will use BTU's to keep it warm, so instead of wasting water you'd be wasting gas.
What I do to partially reduce this water waste is brush my teeth (with "hot" water) while I wait for the hot to arrive in the bathroom. Once it's on that side of the house, the shower will get hot quick.

[Russ_Boston]

I think Steve is correct. I don't see how this 'problem' has anything to do with TV alone. It's basic math isn't it? You have X amount of water in the pipes between you and the hot water tank. All that water has to drain before the hot water can get to the shower.

Here in MA I run the hot water from the shower and the sink at the same time (brushing my teeth with the sink water while it's still cool) and the wait is reduced because the volume is double.

[golfnut]

Like previous posts from russ and steve, I find it hard to believe this is a TV issue, it's a location issue no matter where you are, the closer you are to the hot water heater the sooner you get the HOT water, next topic please!

[punkpup]

Golfnut is correct... it has everything to do with proximity to the hot water source. As a service tech for Keyspan/National Grid Energy Delivery (Natural Gas Division) I am often asked about this issue in respect to gas usage and water conservation. Obviously in the day and age of fast rising energy costs and drought any way we can conserve precious resources and save money is a plus!

In my quest to find solutions to offer my customers I've found a few things which may be of interest.

Energy saving hot water recirculating pumps from Grundfos, (newer technology is more energy efficient than older products):

System for standalone hot water tank: http://www.grundfos.com/web/HomeUs.nsf/Webopslag/PAVA-56TMVA http://www.rewci.com/whhohotwaci.html
NOTE: SEE THIS SITE FOR IMAGE OF NEW STYLE VS OLD (SCROLL DOWN) STYLE!!!! :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230085874368&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013

System for tankless hot water: http://www.bigbrandwater.com/rcp96.html

A great way to conserve water by using bathroom sink drain water to flush toilets: http://www.aridsolutionsinc.com/catalog/item/523392/4156855.htm
http://www.watersavertech.com/AQUS-System.html

More ways to conserve water:
1. A way to use water from showers, washers and washtub:
http://www.greywater.com/treatment.htm
http://greenwoodlands.net/plumbing/greywatersystem.html
2. Some ways to use rain water; I particularly like the NINO multi purpose rainbarrel:
http://www.desertplastics-abq.com/waterharvest3.html

On demand tankless hot water heaters: http://www.stefanoparis.com/efficientliving/aquastar/aquastar.html

[Villages Kahuna]

This suggestion is very much effected by the water piping layout in each house. But a tankless water heater may be the answer for both quicker availability of hot water as well as a lower gas bill.

I've owned three tankless heaters--one in our former primary residence in north suburban Chicago and two at our current "up north house" in southwest Michigan. I would never again buy a tank water heater. The tankless models that would very adequately serve any house in TV are about 2 feet wide by 3 feet high by maybe 8-9 inches deep. They can easily be hung on a wall or placed elsewhere out of sight. I have one in MI that's in an interior closet and vented up thru a roof chimney. The second unit is actually under a seat in a large shower and is vented out the side wall of the house.

The key to minimizing the cost of installing one is having connections nearby for incoming unheated water, outgoing hot water, the natural gas used to heat the water and a standard 120 volt duplex outlet to power the unit's computer controls. I live in a Lantana and I could place it in the garage where the existing tank heater is located. Or I could easily hang it on the laundry room wall or even in the master closet adjacent to the master bath. Tankless heaters are clean and quiet--absolutely silent most of the time when no hot water is being used.

Just a thought.

[Bubbalarry]

You shouldn't have the hot water heater on high - medium setting should be plenty warm.

Remove the flow restrictors - they are there to save water but if you have to run it for 5 minutes they aren't working.

Open the faucet all the way.

Make sure that the hot water supply doesn't have a partially closed valve at the heater.


I have had the time measured to 4 min and 38 seconds. Now I didn't realize the fact of flow restrictors on the sinks in master bath. I only removed the shower head. Upon return I will remove them from the house period. I need the hottest water for personal issues so the electric hot water heater has to be set on high. For the winter months I am at the house wont harm the unit. Upon departing I turn off the circuit breaker for it and the water valve outside.

Never thought of checking the hot water valve at the heater. I am used to a gas unit and now that this house is without any gas and uses a heat pump and only electric, must get reacquainted with it.

All in all a circulating pump will fix all. Just need many residents to call the warranty dept of TV, or form a group and go to TV to resolve this without our costs.

[another Linda]

Is there any such thing as an electric tankless hot water heater? I don't think our villa has gas to it.

[Villages Kahuna]

There probably is such a beast, but don't even think about it. It would be very restrictive on the amount of hot water it could heat and the electric bill would be out of this world. Gas is the way to go.

[chuckinca]

See link to Bosch Tankless Water Heaters Gas, Propane and Electric

Annual cost of an Electric per Bosch is about twice that of a Gas unit but slightly less than a standard 50 Gal Tank type.


http://www.boschhotwater.com/StartPage/BoschHotWatercomHome/ElectricProducts/PowerStarAE115AE125/tabid/395/Default.aspx

[another Linda]

Anyone have any experience bringing gas into CYVs? I suppose we'd have to tear up the driveway to do it. Do all the older villages have gas lines to them? Where would I go to find out? (questions questions)

[chuckinca]

another linda:

start by making sure there is a gas main in the street or utility easement.

propane may be the only way to get gas or the least expensive - if allowed in your area.

[Duffer]

A water ciculator if properly installed will do a great job. I went from approx. 1minute to hot water to 20 sec. They are not too expensive but it will take a long time to get back the cost.. The type I got requires me to push a button each time, there are others set by a clock and others that rely on water temp.

[punkpup]

These hot water circulators have automatic switching and I was impressed by their efficiency but I think having much more knowledge of TV piping layout Village Kahuna is correct.

System for standalone natural gas hot water tank: http://www.grundfos.com/web/HomeUs.nsf/Webopslag/PAVA-56TMVA http://www.rewci.com/whhohotwaci.html
NOTE: SEE THIS SITE FOR IMAGE OF NEW STYLE VS OLD (SCROLL DOWN) STYLE!!!! :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230085874368&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013

I have no experience with electric tankless hot water heaters. It appears to me that all of the newer technology tankless hot water heaters are becoming more and more energy efficient with each new generation regardless of type of fuel due to market demands.

[punkpup]

One Natural Gas tankless water heater company I forgot to mention is Noritz.

http://www.noritz.com/

[fiddlemyre]

In The Villages, a "gentlemen" always lets his wife shower first.

[chelsea24]

We're supposedly in the "Electric Village" of Duval and we have not had this problem. The water gets really hot right away.

[handieman]

Common you wusses get tough or shower in a wet suit ;D
Jus sayin
Handie :joke:

[golfnut]

chels, after you turn the hot water on at the sink farthest from the hot water heater, how long does it take before the water is hot.

[784caroline]

I have the problem in Caroline...it takes forever for the water to heat up for a shower.

[Muncle]

In The Villages, a "gentlemen" always lets his wife shower first.

In TV, like elsewhere, a bachelor gentleman offers to shower with his guest. :hot: :2excited:

[chelsea24]

Hi Golfnut, just saw you question so I went to time it and it took only 8 seconds. We don't seem to have any trouble with hot water.

[golfnut]

WOW, that is fast, no problem there.

[Ooper]

With all this talk about tankless hot water heaters... I work for a contractor in Ocala and we use them when we design a large house where some of the bathrooms are a long way from the main hot water heater. They can be installed right in a bathroom vanity or closet without taking up very much room at all. But if you get one, keep in mind that all you need is a small one. You only need to heat enough water to last until the "real" hot water from the main tank travels its journey to that particular outlet. As soon as the hot water from the main tank reaches it, it switches off. In the meantime, you have almost instantaneous hot water without heating up a large quantity... the best of both worlds.

[l2ridehd]

Ooper

Do you have a brand or type you recommend? Are these electric or gas? How expensive are they?

[Ooper]

I'd rather not recommend a brand but if you Google "tankless water heaters" or "point of use water heaters" you'll find many to choose from. They start around $150 +/- on up. They come in gas and electric (both 110 vac and 220 vac). You need to determine your needs and what you can afford. Research user reviews (there are many sites on the internet) and take a trip over to Lowes or Home Depot.

[aford]

I have an on demand circulator..............its great.......I push a button, and wait a bit and thenn I turn my water on............and it is hot.................no wasted water. Cost to run about $1 per yr.

We also installed a waterless heater.........no water tank.........again great. If you are not using hot water, then none is made........again saving $$$$$ on electric.

Go Green.

And while you are at it, drive your golf cart everywhere. I only fill up my car gas tank once a month.........saving 60 gallons....I am trying for two months. Will you all join me in fighting these high gas prices? Lets reduce the demand.................

[The Great Fumar]

I for one am paying attention to these suggestions......I have been yelling about this hot water delay for two years..........My hot water take 16 minutes to get to the shower.....
Now I'll have to admit that going from my hotwater heater to the shower , you pass a Howard Johnsons on the way......But doesn't that seem a little excessive......

Brrrrr Fumar

[andyc]

We just purchased a designer home in Hadley and are experiencing the same hot water problems i.e. taking minutes to get hot water. Even the dishwasher is not cleaning the dishes with the water being cool. Is this problem unique to Hadley?

I called the plumber to inquire about this problem and he stated that the cheaper homes do not have water circulators. The more expensive ones do.To get one installed, it would cost about $550-about 1 hour's work. Anyone know of a plumber who can do it cheaper or offer any other solutions to getting hot water faster?

We're told to conserve water by irrigating once a week yet what we're saving is "going down the drain" by running the water excessive minutes to get hot water.

[l2ridehd]

Cost and water saving solution. Go in the bathroom, turn on the hot water at your sink, brush your teeth using the cold water flowing from the hot water tap, when it comes out hot, shut it off and if not finished, use cold water tap, turn on the shower (now with almost immeadiate hot water) and jump in.

No wasted water.

[Canabarrybarb]

I installed a Laing Instant Hot Water Recirculating Pump http://www.lainginc.com/UCT-303-B.htm in my house in NC and it worked very well. It is a $150 do-it-yourself installation without need for any more pipes since it recirculates the water back through the cold water pipe.

I've thought about installing one here in our Lantana but have hesitated because I notice that the water in the hot water line cools very rapidly once it is shut off. I expect it does this because the pipe runs through the concrete floor which draws heat out of the pipe quickly. I'm afraid that a recirculating system will end up wasting a lot of energy heating the floor.

[Sidney Lanier]

Bubba: It is unbeliable that you have to wait up to 5 minutes for the hot water. How many people dont even have cold water to take a shower with. Count your blessings.

Am I missing something? Isn't the primary issue here the waste of water--a precious commodity--rather than the inconvenience of having to wait a minute or two before stepping into the shower (or whatever)?

[ijusluvit]

That's right. Let's get back to the water.
There are five pages here so far and most have the same problem with long delays in hot water delivery. I have that problem too, and I'm convinced a tankless water system is not the solution.

I installed a Takagi TK-3 tankless water heating system in my four bedroom rambling house up north about a year ago. I have experienced significant savings on my gas bills, but I use more water because the tankless system cannot deliver hot water as quickly as our tank did formerly. I'm not thrilled with that, but I accept it because water is far cheaper up north.

But here in TV I would have serious concern about the additional waste of water if I installed a tankless system. For snowbirds and those away from home a lot, tankless systems would provide more savings, but I would be concerned that the water losses for full-time residents would be greater than the gas savings.

I like to know more about circulating systems, but until I do I think the water waste problem here is serious, and as much as tankless hot water systems are great, they make the water usage problem worse.

[faithfulfrank]

Luckily, our home layout has the main bedroom suite bathroom closer to the hot water tank. The guest bath is farther away...but it is not used hardly at all, so the occasional wait is not the problem.

We seem to wait forever for hot water at the kitchen sink. I plan on installing a small point of use hot water tank under the sink for that problem. That should also help the dishwasher, although I did not think we had any problems with the dishwasher.

Frank D.

[drdodge]

There is a pump system that you can have installed and it will keep the water hot at the fatherest faucet from the tank. It ia a unit made by Watts. If you go on line and in the search bar put in Watts and you can read all about. Installed cost is about $275.00 by me

drd