The Fridge

[nanci2539]

Just wondering if I'm out of the norm when I wonder what the builder is thinking by not building in the fridge. What I mean in simple terms is the home I now live in has the stove, dishwasher, walloven, and refrigerator built in.

Every model home I saw has the fridge sticking out. Now that's not only in TV. I visited other area communities and all had the same concept; fridge sticking out.

It's not much more work for the builder and it will surely give the kitchen a more customize look. My TV agent told me he hears this over and over again. He's stated this to the design people but apparently, they don't think it looks bad.

My appliances are built in now and I wonder what to do about the refrigerator in TV once we move in. Other than tearing out the cabinets and starting all over again, any ideas on how to achieve a custom look or am I being unrealistic. My hubby feels this is the way it is so live with it!

[zcaveman]

I guess I am not sure what you mean. My fridge is in is own spot under the cabinets next to the stove. What do you mean by built in?

[Just Susan]

Hi nanci2539,
I think I can answer your question, I have been a Kitchen & Bath Designer for 20 years, for remodels and new construction. In both cases, though most often in new construction, the reason for the non-built-in look is cost.

Contractors can make a large profit in the kitchen, by using inexpensive appliances and cabinets called "builder grade". They look good but these cabinets have few if any features such as roll-out shelves, lazy susan's, dividers, durability, etc.

To build in a refrigerator you need 3 pieces that are expensive upgrades at this quality level, two - finished both sides and one edge each, 27"w x 84"-96"h panels, and a 24" deep upper cabinet that is sized height-wise to compliment the chosen refrigerator.

I agree with your husband up front anyway because there really isn't any choice.
When we were in TV last spring we were told that no alterations were allowable pre-sale...that is discouraging for me regarding new construction (seems wasteful) so we will probably buy a resale home and tear out the kitchen and remodel to my standards.

If a tear out is not in your plans you could have a local cabinetmaker make the the pieces I described above to match the existing cabinets in the home you purchase. If a tear out or update is in your plans, I hope to continue my design career in TV sometime next year (got to sell our house 1st, hopefully in the spring). Based on what I saw, I could be pretty busy. Then again do retired people cook?

[nanci2539]

Thanks Susan, helpful information

For me, it's not a matter of cooking although we do cook - we're Italians, we cook!

It's more the aesthetics and how it looks. Maybe it's what I'm use to having lived in a customized kitchen for so long.

Make sure you post your services when you move to TV! I will probably be your first customer.

[bfhowa01]

Since we're talking about fridges....We live in a Colony Patio Villa and we recently noticed that the refrigerator is too close to the wall so that the door does not open wide enough for us to get the plastic bins (crispers?) out to clean them. We contacted the warranty department about this issue and they told us this was the first time they had ever heard of the problem. Do we just have an odd ball villa? Do other people have this problem? Short of buying a new refrigerator, reversing the door or tearing apart the kitchen is there a solution to fix this?

[nanci2539]

My immediate thought is to have the appropriate people at TV look at it. Even though they never heard of it doesn't mean it's not a problem for you. I guess I would insist that they come out to see for themselves and correct the problem.

[Just Susan]

Hi bfhowa01,
I highly doubt that this is the first the warranty dept has heard of this problem...maybe I'm just being cynical, but I looked up the floorplan of the Colony model and honestly don't see how you are a first with this complaint.

Possible solutions:
1. Slide the refrigerator as close to the counter as possible.
2. Take the shelves out of the door before you try to remove the drawers.

If that works you are good to go.

If not here are some questions for you...stand in front of and then face the refrigerator, the end of the counter is to your left and the wall is to your right, the refrigerator is in the space between the counter and the wall ....
1. How many inches is it from the edge of the counter to the wall?
2. How wide is your refrigerator?
3. How deep is the door from outside edge of door handle to inner most edge of door or non-removable shelf?

If #2 + #3 add up to more than #1. You have a design problem for which the builder should be held accountable.

Good luck, I hope it is just a matter of removing the door shelves.

[Just Susan]

Hi nanci2539,
I hope it works out that you are my first client in TV...design a kitchen for an Italian cook???...too much fun. I love to cook too.

I am so excited to move to TV. Every day I voyeuristically check out both the Squares, via the skycam (thank you to whomever it is that keeps that up and running). I check out the housing market, and thank goodness for this forum. I love the people who post here...the good advice, the helpfulness and honestly, even the negatives because I don't want to move to "Stepford", but I do want to be with mostly upbeat and positive people.

Hope we meet next year, glad time flies at this age.

[bfhowa01]

Hi Susan, thanks for your help. Unfortunately, it is an inexpensive refrigerator and the shelves on the door do not come out. I called the warranty dept and they sent Bailey Appliances out to look at the problem. There was nothing they could think of and it was obvious that the villages was not going to remedy a design flaw. I can live with the mistake as we are snowbirds and do not intend to do any heavy duty cooking. What I am having a problem with is the point you brought up. I know I was not the first to raise this problem as I checked with my neighbor and he had called earlier with the same complaint. I don't like not getting a straight answer and that is why I posted this concern to see how large a design defect this really is.

[Just Susan]

Hi Susan, thanks for your help. Unfortunately, it is an inexpensive refrigerator and the shelves on the door do not come out. I called the warranty dept and they sent Bailey Appliances out to look at the problem. There was nothing they could think of and it was obvious that the villages was not going to remedy a design flaw. I can live with the mistake as we are snowbirds and do not intend to do any heavy duty cooking. What I am having a problem with is the point you brought up. I know I was not the first to raise this problem as I checked with my neighbor and he had called earlier with the same complaint. I don't like not getting a straight answer and that is why I posted this concern to see how large a design defect this really is.


Hi bfhowa01
I'm sorry that it worked out this way for you. Maybe you can take comfort in knowing that design issues like this and many more are very common among all builders, in all states, when building tract housing. The kitchen is a profit center for them...thing is you can't really blame them, profit is why we all worked...and eating out a lot is why we retire.
If someday you decide to move full time to TV there are remedies for your situation.

[nanci2539]

Susan, you hit the nail on the head and this is what I'm struggling with. We live in a beautiful 4000 sq foot brick home now. It beautifully decorated (my sister is an interior designer) and it took me years to finally get it to where I'm finished buying for the home!

My kitchen is customized with a six burner viking stove; wall over, built in appliances. You know what I mean if you're in kitchen design. I have two sinks and a huge island. I can go on and on.

When I toured the TV homes, what came to mind immediately was the "tract" home look. Other than the premiers that we can't afford, the designer series reminder me of what we have here in many of the developments. We have a lot of Neumann and Pulte homes. And these homes are fine for couples just starting out or even older seniors who just want to downsize but stay in the area.

Like I wrote on another post, I feel like an odd ball caring so much about the home we buy. I think I'm driving my husband nuts and I know that whatever we buy, we won't be ripping out a kitchen and starting over, not with the prices they want for the homes.

It's nice to talk to someone who understands where my head is at. I applaud those who were able to handle the transition from a big home with all the amenities to a "tract" home with few amenities!

[Just Susan]

Susan, you hit the nail on the head and this is what I'm struggling with. We live in a beautiful 4000 sq foot brick home now. It beautifully decorated (my sister is an interior designer) and it took me years to finally get it to where I'm finished buying for the home!

My kitchen is customized with a six burner viking stove; wall over, built in appliances. You know what I mean if you're in kitchen design. I have two sinks and a huge island. I can go on and on.

When I toured the TV homes, what came to mind immediately was the "tract" home look. Other than the premiers that we can't afford, the designer series reminder me of what we have here in many of the developments. We have a lot of Neumann and Pulte homes. And these homes are fine for couples just starting out or even older seniors who just want to downsize but stay in the area.

Like I wrote on another post, I feel like an odd ball caring so much about the home we buy. I think I'm driving my husband nuts and I know that whatever we buy, we won't be ripping out a kitchen and starting over, not with the prices they want for the homes.

It's nice to talk to someone who understands where my head is at. I applaud those who were able to handle the transition from a big home with all the amenities to a "tract" home with few amenities!


Nanci, You are right I know exactly what you mean on both a personal and professional level. We too have a large home, 4200 sq. ft., lakefront in the Twin Cities,MN. I have a 60" Wolf, etc, etc.

We too worked all our lives to get to where we got, and have enjoyed the fruits of our labors...the Villages homes from Designer on down are not as nice as what we have physically...however, (now you think about this) we are NOT moving to TV for the houses, we'd do better staying where we are, we are moving to TV for the lifestyle.

Eventually the thrill of that might wear off, and I will have the time to focus on the negatives of the kitchen and the closets!! Somehow, though I think those things are going to diminish in importance, and the freedom from responsibility and the fun to be had, the clubs, photography, painting, golf, the wonderful new friends, travel...I'm not sure when we will be home to notice the defects. If after we are there awhile, if I am still bothered by the things that bother me now, we will make the necessary changes.
What do you think, can I do this, can you? I don't know but I'm going to give it a try.

[English Ivy]

"a "tract" home with few amenities" - quote nanci2539

You almost make it sound like if we don't live in a Premier model we're just one step above slum housing.

The Villages is a wonderful place to live but most of us have found it necessary to downsize or lower our expectations in order to live here. It sounds like you're still really struggling with this. Maybe you should consider renting here for several months to make sure this is what you want before you sell the house and move away from the kids and grandkids.

As I've read some of your previous posts I've had the same thought several times ...I think high end quality is very important to you. I'm not sure you will be satisfied with the finished product here. We had our home (2300 sq ft) custom built in Wisconsin by a wonderful builder who did an excellent job. We were so pleased. Our new saying since we've moved south (first to Mississippi and then The Villages) is "they sure don't build them like they do up north". Is this ok with you?

For example, speaking of refrigerators, we bought a new side-by-side a couple weeks ago to replace the "GE Cold Box" they give you in the ranch home models. Guess what ... the only way it fits is by pushing on the top to get it to slide by the upper cabinets. The upper and lower cabinets don't line up and unfortunately we only measured at the bottom cabinet (valuable lesson for anyone else thinking of getting a bigger frig ... measure in several places). We've contacted Warranty and will see if they'll fix this. Even if they do it will cause a big mess that I'll end up having to clean up.

Maybe the quality in the designer homes is better; I hope so. But I don't think it's going to be to your expectations. You'll love The Villages but you can't reinvent the wheel as far as the homes go. Please don't take my comments the wrong way, I just get the feeling you may not be happy in any home here in The Villages.

[RCT]

Just wondering if I'm out of the norm when I wonder what the builder is thinking by not building in the fridge. What I mean in simple terms is the home I now live in has the stove, dishwasher, walloven, and refrigerator built in.

Every model home I saw has the fridge sticking out. Now that's not only in TV. I visited other area communities and all had the same concept; fridge sticking out.

It's not much more work for the builder and it will surely give the kitchen a more customize look. My TV agent told me he hears this over and over again. He's stated this to the design people but apparently, they don't think it looks bad.

My appliances are built in now and I wonder what to do about the refrigerator in TV once we move in. Other than tearing out the cabinets and starting all over again, any ideas on how to achieve a custom look or am I being unrealistic. My hubby feels this is the way it is so live with it!
You're husband is a brilliant man, as far as I am concerned!! :bigthumbsup: Maybe a low-profile fridge, they are a little taller, but not as deep, and can go virtually flush against the back wall, then build just a simple cabinet/wall to cover the one exposed side

[nanci2539]

You almost make it sound like if we don't live in a Premier model we're just one step above slum housing.

No, that's not what a I mean at all. My head is not up my butt nor do I feel if you don't live in a premier, then what good is life!

This is the same reaction I got from the stranger in line. Maybe this is not a topic to talk about. Like I said, I applaud people who can adjust to downsizing and leaving their families without having concerns or sleepless nights! Maybe I'm out of the norm; it sounds like I am but please don't think that I feel I'm better than others. TV is a lifestyle and I'm sure once we're there, I will adjust quickly.

Please don't take offense; I didn't mean to come across like a diva.

[Just Susan]

Hi nanci,
Do you remember that book I believe it was in the 70's called "Passages". It was about all the various phases we go through as we age.

I feel that this whole retirement thing is a passage don't you? Each decade we have lived, has had things, attitudes and actions that were imperative to that age. As we edge toward retirement the passage seems scarier than some of the others have been.

Moving to TV requires enormous down sizing of possessions, if for no other reason than to not have to move it. We leave behind our families, kids & grandchildren, our old friends who love us no matter what and our careers. We must adjust to a new environment, new friends, new places to buy what we are used to buying, but the new place doesn't carry it, a retirement income, maybe only one car...everything that identifies us outwardly as us, we leave behind. It is frightening.

I don't think you are a diva, I think you are just trying to work through these fears.

[jjdees]

Nanci, Very very well described.

[nanci2539]

Susan, thank you so much. After I left TOTV last night, I was kicking myself. After I reread my post, I could see why people would think "who does she think she is".

It's a mixture of leaving what I consider my dream home that we bought ten yeas ago. Homes in the midwest are a fraction of what it would cost in Boston (where I'm from originally). So, when we had this home built, it was a dream for me. Coming from humble roots, I never thought at age 50 I would have such an elegant home. It's as simple as that. Now toss in the fact that my son and daughter with their families live within a mile of me; it just adds to the fear and that's a good description; it's fear. I don't think it's the materialistic part of it as much as the emotional part. Sure I hate giving up my stuff and downsizing but it has to be done.

My TV rep told me a story about a couple who put a downpayment on a home, etc. A week before the closing, the guy called saying his wife was having a melt down and couldn't leave the kids; she was upset, her family was upset, her grandchildren were crying and depressed. This man was going to lose his downpayment and 20%. Not a good enough reason to get his money back. The next day he called back and said they were coming. My immediate thought was of relief in feeling that I'm not a misfit and others feel the strong pull I'm feeling.

While my family is supported, I know they are not excited about us moving away. So, toss that into the mix, it does become a struggle. I talked to so many grandparents in TV and they all say the same thing "wait until the kids come to visit". Does that help? In many ways it does but I just have to get to that part.

The big pull for me to move is my husband. He's tired of working; he's tired of maintaining a big home and we're both tired of the weather -- we have a nice little ice storm yesterday which means my husband is stuck in NY! He had to travel there on business this weekend.

Anyway, I'm going on and on but I want you to know Susan that I reapply appreciate your insight and wise words.

I'll make it and when you move to TV; I'll buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks!

Oh, and I didn't read the book but I will look for it!

[English Ivy]

Nanci ... I certainly did not think of you as a "diva" and as I said at the end of my post to please not take my comments the wrong way. You're just having a real struggle in wanting to come live The Villages lifestyle but having to give up certain things to do so.

On our first visit to TV we approached many people on the Squares to ask if they lived in TV and how they liked it. Everyone we approached raved about it except for one couple. They had just moved here a couple months before and realized they had made a big mistake. They were very upset because it wasn't the way they were used to living. I just want to make sure you'll be one of the majority who love living here rather than the minority who don't like it when they get here.

I've lived in a patio villa and ranch home model so I don't know much about the designer models but if there's anything I can do to help you or answer any questions feel free to PM me. I want you as a neighbor but want you to be a happy neighbor! :)

[Just Susan]

Nanci,
We are going to be great friends I just know it.
We have toooo many similarities not to be. We moved from the Bay Area (SF, CA) to MN. the rest is the same story as yours down to where you said "Anyway, I go on and on...", which I do also.
I'd love to meet you at Starbucks, you have their coffee I'll have tea...never did learn that coffee thing. Meanwhile we can test the waters of this friendship in this forum...which I love, and with email notes if you would like. It might help us both to know we have a friend already in TV.
Susan

[Villages Kahuna]

Nancy,

I know you've commented several times on the issue of the "stick out" refrigerator. But as I read thru the responses below, a couple caught my eye. Susan Toms hit the nail on the head with her recommendation of the Passages book. I think what she might be saying is that people really do move to TV for the life style and find the necessity of leaving some things and people behind are well worth it.

On the practical issue of a refrigerator only as deep as the countertops. We also had one of those "kitchen designer" kitchens up north. One part was a built-in Sub Zero refrigerator. What a piece of crapola! In the ten or so years it as there we spent more than $7,000 repairing the $5,000 refrigerator. When the last recommended repair came about--another $2,000 for new compressors--I had the thing removed to the trash.

My wife and I worried about finding a replacement for the space in the kitchen that wasn't made by Sub Zero, who seemed to dominate the "built-in" segment of the market. We were pleased to find that there are several GE Monogram models (the top of GE's line) that will fit right in the space where the Sub Zero sat, rolling in on wheels and producing a "look" with the front flush with the front of the counters. Take a look at Abt Appliance in Glenview to see them, or look at the Abt website. You'll still have to deal with the unfinished sides of the refrigerator, but we didn't find that at all expensive. And of course, the shallower flush fit models don't hold as much as the "stick out" models, but I'm sure you knew that.

The GE Monogram models aren't quite as expensive as the crappy Sub Zeros, but after having ours for a while both my wife and I concluded that it was a far better refrigerator.

As far as Italians and cooking are concerned, you're going to be surprised at how often "our people" eat out in TV.

[nanci2539]

[quote=Villages Kahuna ]
On the practical issue of a refrigerator only as deep as the countertops. We also had one of those "kitchen designer" kitchens up north. One part was a built-in Sub Zero refrigerator. What a piece of crapola!

My son told me early on not to get a sub zero! We went with the GE Monogram and it's held up pretty good for the past ten years. So GE has my vote.

All I can say folks is thank you for your insight, suggestions and patience! We've been to TV three times already and it's where we want to be. I'll get past all the other stuff I'm sure and maybe we can all sit back with a drink and laugh about this!

Susan, I'm more a tea drinker than coffee drinker but I must have that first cup of DD coffee in the AM! I make it at home but it never tastes the same!

Paul, Italians cook but drink wine too so I hope to one day meet you and Barb. By the way folks, we went by Paul's home (Village Kahuna) during our last visit. He's done a beautiful job with the outsdie landscaping and his lanai and pool is really nice. I don't know about the eating out part - the last thing I want to do is gain weight!

And English Ivy, no offense taken at all. I just don't want to come across as a person who cares more about stuff than people.

Okay folks, let's call it a day on this topic and again., thanks for all your insight and suggestions.

[chelsea24]

Just wanted to say Hi Nanc, we've just moved here from Bloomingdale, IL. I notice you're in Naperville. We've only been here a month but visited twice before buying. Anyway, we love it here and just wanted to say :welcome:

Hope to meet you.

[nanci2539]

Hi Chelsea - nice to meet you too. We're originally from Boston and have lived in Naperville now for 11 years. Our home is on the market (just recently) so we sit and wait!

Nice to hear that you love TV.

[lm01]

Hi - You can always buy a counter top depth refrig. You tend to loose inside space and the refrig will cost more but the look is very custom.

[mybestfriend]

Refrigerators stick out from the cabinets so the doors can open-especially if they have deep doors. Because of the position of the hinge they need some side clearance to open completely. You can buy a "built-in look" refrigerator which will fill your 36" wide space--but it's only 20" deep, about 20-22 cubic feet. And they cost a lot more for what you get.

[ilovetv]

Newbies and wannabees should be aware: This thread is seven years old. Things have changed and bugs have been worked out of home designs, I'm sure. TV would not have grown the way it has if there were continuing dissatisfaction with the homes.

Apart from that, "Don't sweat the small stuff". Try something new and enjoy life outdoors year-round in the sunshine, before cancer, stroke or death prevent you and your mate from doing so. Every year we meet recently widowed men and women who tell how they worked and saved for decades and when they finally came here to their dream house, one of them got cancer and died within the first year, with their mate practically living in the hospital watching the spouse die over months.

Live your life while you have it!