Recreational marijuana

[quirky3]

Do you support the legalization of RECREATIONAL marijuana?

[eweissenbach]

I have never smoked a joint and never would, however I would support legalization.
Instead of making smugglers, street hustlers, and Central and South American cartels rich, why not have it grown and controlled by Americans as it is in Colorado?
Instead of paying for the incarceration of tens of thousands of users and sellers, and spending millions on eradication and police work why not save that tax money and add the tax money on maijuana?
I think most people who want to smoke it already do, it seems to be easily accessable.
Seems to me the quality would likely improve and the controls over it would insure better and safer product.

[karostay]

:cool:yup

[Golfingnut]

I would never use it, but would vote yes to medical use.

[quirky3]

I would never use it, but would vote yes to medical use.

This is a different survey....on recreational use.

[Villages PL]

Has anyone thought about the possibility of unintended consequences? Do you want to live in a "Dumb And Dumber" dumbed down society? Don't we have enough of that already?

If marijuana becomes legal for recreational use, there will be many more young people using it than otherwise would have. Once it is officially sanctioned and approved, it will seem totally harmless to new generations of young people.

Has anyone figured out what the costs of that might be?

[Golfingnut]

This is a different survey....on recreational use.

Oops. I'm outa here.

[Villages PL]

Has anyone thought about the possibility of unintended consequences? Do you want to live in a "Dumb And Dumber" dumbed down society? Don't we have enough of that already?

If marijuana becomes legal for recreational use, there will be many more young people using it than otherwise would have. Once it is officially sanctioned and approved, it will seem totally harmless to new generations of young people.

Has anyone figured out what the costs of that might be?

Bump!

[gomoho]

Has anyone thought about the possibility of unintended consequences? Do you want to live in a "Dumb And Dumber" dumbed down society? Don't we have enough of that already?

If marijuana becomes legal for recreational use, there will be many more young people using it than otherwise would have. Once it is officially sanctioned and approved, it will seem totally harmless to new generations of young people.

Has anyone figured out what the costs of that might be?

Like the 3rd graders in California that were smoking in the school bathroom with their own pipe??? I don't think most people have a clue what doors would be open with this legalization. Don't know what the answer is - don't think jail is appropriate, but don't think legalizing is either. It's a very complicated issue that is above my pay grade.

[Bucco]

Like the 3rd graders in California that were smoking in the school bathroom with their own pipe??? I don't think most people have a clue what doors would be open with this legalization. Don't know what the answer is - don't think jail is appropriate, but don't think legalizing is either. It's a very complicated issue that is above my pay grade.

Not complicated to me at all....of course as everybody knows I have no clue.

HOWEVER, I sure am not fond of having folks get drugged...and they will be drugged if you read anything at all.....POSSIBLE paranoia...imagine them on the road or with a gun.....POSSIBLE gateway to heroin...nice thought as they turn 21, legally get on the fast track to more drugs.

If we are doing this as folks say to save money, and collect tax...legalize heroin and any druges...save a ton of money and as folks say it is better than them doing it in the playground.

Where are you going Beaver...oh just down to the playground to get stoned with the guys...oh, ok, bring me back some pot...been stressed...need to unwind and escape reality.

Lazy spoiled society......if it is difficult, legalize it and tax it.....then complain when all these folks cannot function or work....yes, allow the grandchildren to legally get stoned anytime they want. Light up with the family at night !

Sorry.....mabye I am the only stupid one who sees another move by a self absorped society...dont deal with it.....do not hurt feelings...let them have it.

[gomoho]

But Bucco - should some dumb young 20 something spend time in prison cause he just bought some weed to smoke and got caught with a gram over the legal limit? What does that accomplish? That is where my confusion comes in. I have personally seen the ravages of marijuana and am not happy about it being legalized, but I also don't want to see people spending a good part of the lives in jail over it either. That is my confusion. And it is not simply a matter of "just say no". Easier said then done in todays world. Just don't know what the answer is - it's not black and white in my mind.

[Bucco]

But Bucco - should some dumb young 20 something spend time in prison cause he just bought some weed to smoke and got caught with a gram over the legal limit? What does that accomplish? That is where my confusion comes in. I have personally seen the ravages of marijuana and am not happy about it being legalized, but I also don't want to see people spending a good part of the lives in jail over it either. That is my confusion. And it is not simply a matter of "just say no". Easier said then done in todays world. Just don't know what the answer is - it's not black and white in my mind.

Nobody on here anyway, is discussing the penalty. Everyone seems to want to go for making it legal....of course, it is easier.

It is against the law...why would I sympathize with someone who knowlingly broke the law and in addition to making himself or herself feel good, put other folks at risk. Why should you not go to jail if you break the law ?

I suppose a discussion on penalties might be line...for example...shorter jail term but lose a lot of other privileges....I do not know the answer, but I do know...IT IS A DRUG...not approved...opposed by the American Medical Association....and almost all medical groups, including one which supposedly has medical uses...Glaucoma...the American Glaucoma Society is opposed to its use.

BUT...like folks said...it is easier.....you hear that a lot now days...it is easier....tough job....just legalize it. Because we dont want all those petitions and such to affect elections.

[Topspinmo]

Not that I would Know. IMO no worse than Alcohol:popcorn:, especially whiskey, rum, ect...:boom: Nothing like wineo's begging for 2 bucks for something to eat in liquid form:ohdear:.

I would at least restrict the age limit to 21. Surely by 21 years old now days you would have control over you life and habits. NOT! 35 is the new 21:ohdear:

[DonH57]

I certainly would think if recreational use was legalized it would be within a given set of conditions. I certainly don't recommend lighting up a fat boy and then realize the fact you need those white castle burgers in the frozen foods at Publix you wished you picked up earlier.

[PennBF]

It is sad so many have not done any research on the subject of marjuana and the impact it has on society. How many have visited a "sober house", "crisis center", Rehab and talked to the Professional regarding the impact of this gateway drug on society and the body? Some just look at it as "fun' and ignore the terrible effect it has on society (e.g. 20% of Users end up on the hard drug, that it has devestating impact on youth of 18 and under..too much impact to even start to describe. it impacts the stem of the brain, and many many so ons" The good news is that it give employment opportunity to the Psychologists, medical personnel, et al. :ohdear:

[wendyquat]

I think this country if finding its way to "hell in a hand basket" without legalizing dope! It's difficult enough to maneuver a vehicle safely without having to deal with potheads running the roads (and roundabouts)!������������

[Barefoot]

I have never smoked a joint and never would, however I would support legalization. Instead of making smugglers, street hustlers, and Central and South American cartels rich, why not have it grown and controlled by Americans as it is in Colorado?
Instead of paying for the incarceration of tens of thousands of users and sellers, and spending millions on eradication and police work why not save that tax money and add the tax money on maijuana?
I think most people who want to smoke it already do, it seems to be easily accessable. Seems to me the quality would likely improve and the controls over it would insure better and safer product.

This is a rational post. Marijuana is easily accessible now and often sold to young kids. I'd rather see it legalized and restricted to adults.

[Bucco]

This is a rational post. Marijuana is easily accessible now and often sold to young kids. I'd rather see it legalized and restricted to adults.


Would it help if we spent this effort into making it NOT SO EASY to buy a DRUG that ALTERS THE MOOD ?

Of course that would mean listening to medical and psychiatric professionals and might not be as easy. We can just build more crisis and rehab centers and finance them somehow. Increase the local cmt's. It may create jobs for CRISIS COUNSELORS !

What would be the next crime that is being committed that we push to make legal because of the difficulty of enforcing ?

A MIND ALTERING DRUG made legal it seems because we just give up and hey....does not matter the ramifications...we sure will fee good.

[JourneyOfLife]

Nobody on here anyway, is discussing the penalty. Everyone seems to want to go for making it legal....of course, it is easier.

It is against the law...why would I sympathize with someone who knowlingly broke the law and in addition to making himself or herself feel good, put other folks at risk. Why should you not go to jail if you break the law ?

I suppose a discussion on penalties might be line...for example...shorter jail term but lose a lot of other privileges....I do not know the answer, but I do know...IT IS A DRUG...not approved...opposed by the American Medical Association....and almost all medical groups, including one which supposedly has medical uses...Glaucoma...the American Glaucoma Society is opposed to its use.

BUT...like folks said...it is easier.....you hear that a lot now days...it is easier....tough job....just legalize it. Because we dont want all those petitions and such to affect elections.

No, no, no......... You are on the wrong thread. You are looking for the medical poll.

Over here... it would be classified as a food or supplement.

;)

[Xavier]

Not complicated to me at all....of course as everybody knows I have no clue.

HOWEVER, I sure am not fond of having folks get drugged...and they will be drugged if you read anything at all.....POSSIBLE paranoia...imagine them on the road or with a gun.....POSSIBLE gateway to heroin...nice thought as they turn 21, legally get on the fast track to more drugs.

If we are doing this as folks say to save money, and collect tax...legalize heroin and any druges...save a ton of money and as folks say it is better than them doing it in the playground.

Where are you going Beaver...oh just down to the playground to get stoned with the guys...oh, ok, bring me back some pot...been stressed...need to unwind and escape reality.

Lazy spoiled society......if it is difficult, legalize it and tax it.....then complain when all these folks cannot function or work....yes, allow the grandchildren to legally get stoned anytime they want. Light up with the family at night !

Sorry.....mabye I am the only stupid one who sees another move by a self absorped society...dont deal with it.....do not hurt feelings...let them have it.

... never mind.

Xavier

[ron122049]

I have never smoked a joint and never would, however I would support legalization.
Instead of making smugglers, street hustlers, and Central and South American cartels rich, why not have it grown and controlled by Americans as it is in Colorado?
Instead of paying for the incarceration of tens of thousands of users and sellers, and spending millions on eradication and police work why not save that tax money and add the tax money on maijuana?
I think most people who want to smoke it already do, it seems to be easily accessable.
Seems to me the quality would likely improve and the controls over it would insure better and safer product.
I agree with your comments 100%. I am currently living in The Netherlands where pot is legal. You don't see the populus running around high and the crime rate is lower than my hometown in MIchigan. As a retired lawyer and prosecutor we wasted tons of time and money on cases involving small amounts of grass. Just raised money for the courts and kept some police officers busy.

[Golfingnut]

I agree with your comments 100%. I am currently living in The Netherlands where pot is legal. You don't see the populus running around high and the crime rate is lower than my hometown in MIchigan. As a retired lawyer and prosecutor we wasted tons of time and money on cases involving small amounts of grass. Just raised money for the courts and kept some police officers busy.

Thank you for being sensible.

[Golfingnut]

Good ole boys drink bourbon, then as long as the .08 blood level is not met or exceeded, they can drive 6000 lb. trucks down the the road at 70 MPH with a loaded 44 MAG pistol concealed under their coat and it's legal. A young man smokes a joint in the parking lot of the local movie theater prior to going in is breaking the law. What is wrong with this countries thinking?

Wake up America and help change the self serving laws that are ludicrous. You can put a spin on any situation to make it match you personal interests, but be sensible.

Walking around with a loaded gun hidden on your person in public = good guy
Sitting in your living room smoking a joint = criminal

[Golfingnut]

I see a common connection between no votes for legalized marijuana, no vote for gun control, no vote for immigration reform and a no vote for minimum wage increase. Having issue with one or two, no big deal, but when someone is against all, I see a problem.

[Bucco]

Good ole boys drink bourbon, then as long as the .08 blood level is not met or exceeded, they can drive 6000 lb. trucks down the the road at 70 MPH with a loaded 44 MAG pistol concealed under their coat and it's legal. A young man smokes a joint in the parking lot of the local movie theater prior to going in is breaking the law. What is wrong with this countries thinking?

Wake up America and help change the self serving laws that are ludicrous. You can put a spin on any situation to make it match you personal interests, but be sensible.

Walking around with a loaded gun hidden on your person in public = good guy
Sitting in your living room smoking a joint = criminal

I did not realize that the movement to legalize had such restrictions....can only smoke a joint in the parking lot of movies or at home. GREAT...they cannot drive under the influence, right ? They cannot have a gun with them under the influence, right ?

Oh, and the crisis's that follow......and they will according to experts....perhaps not on TOTV.....they pay for all that, right ?

And we are not speaking of CHANGING LAWS, but ABOLISHING LAWS !

[Bucco]

I see a common connection between no votes for legalized marijuana, no vote for gun control, no vote for immigration reform and a no vote for minimum wage increase. Having issue with one or two, no big deal, but when someone is against all, I see a problem.

I, for one, have never ever voted on minimum wage increases, or immigration reform.....fact is...never heard of a real plan or bill about any kind of immigration reform at all.

Wondering why I didn't get a vote ????

And the problem, as you say, to me anyway, is that you see a PROBLEM with everybody not jumping on board and agreeing with you on things never discussed....THAT is a problem.

Once there is legitimate immigration reform to discuss, or a real minimum wage package to discuss....but until then I am not sure how you arrived at your conclusions or actually where you voted !

[billethkid]

You can put a spin on any situation to make it match you personal interests,

pretty accurate, normal position of all participants in one form or another on any subject in any audience of any particular flavor!

[Golfingnut]

And the spin continues. I do sincerely ask all to get your information from people that know. How many people with a criminal record is enough. Legalize marijuana and you put the dealers out of business and I can only imagine the savings from the judicial system.

[Golfingnut]

I, for one, have never ever voted on minimum wage increases, or immigration reform.....fact is...never heard of a real plan or bill about any kind of immigration reform at all.

Wondering why I didn't get a vote ????

And the problem, as you say, to me anyway, is that you see a PROBLEM with everybody not jumping on board and agreeing with you on things never discussed....THAT is a problem.

Once there is legitimate immigration reform to discuss, or a real minimum wage package to discuss....but until then I am not sure how you arrived at your conclusions or actually where you voted !

:shr

[Golfingnut]

I did not realize that the movement to legalize had such restrictions....can only smoke a joint in the parking lot of movies or at home. GREAT...they cannot drive under the influence, right ? They cannot have a gun with them under the influence, right ?

Oh, and the crisis's that follow......and they will according to experts....perhaps not on TOTV.....they pay for all that, right ?

And we are not speaking of CHANGING LAWS, but ABOLISHING LAWS !

Have a joint then answer

[Barefoot]

Would it help if we spent this effort into making it NOT SO EASY to buy a DRUG that ALTERS THE MOOD ? Of course that would mean listening to medical and psychiatric professionals and might not be as easy. We can just build more crisis and rehab centers and finance them somehow. Increase the local cmt's. It may create jobs for CRISIS COUNSELORS !

What would be the next crime that is being committed that we push to make legal because of the difficulty of enforcing ? A MIND ALTERING DRUG made legal it seems because we just give up and hey....does not matter the ramifications...we sure will fee good.

Bucco, we already have a legal drug that alters the mind and the mood. It's called alcohol. It was legalized because Prohibition didn't work.

The use of marijuana is prevalent and it isn't going to go away. The point I'm trying to make is that if marijuana were legalized, there would hopefully be more restrictions. It shouldn't be sold on street corners and in school yards to children. IMHO, our focus should be on eliminating the drug cartels and ensuring it is sold only to adults.

[Golfingnut]

Jjjjjjj

[billethkid]

IMHO, our focus should be on eliminating the drug cartels and ensuring it is sold only to adults.

The intentions are noble, however legalizing marijuana is not going to eliminate these guys. It is more akin to removing their entry line product which will have little or no impact on the rest of what they sell/represent. I suppose there is even a scenario where now that the entry level product is legal and more available there will be more customers for the next level up product line.

Legalizing marijuana is not going to get rid of the bad guys!

[Golfingnut]

Bucco, we already have a legal drug that alters the mind and the mood. It's called alcohol. It was legalized because Prohibition didn't work.

The use of marijuana is prevalent and it isn't going to go away. The point I'm trying to make is that if marijuana were legalized, there would hopefully be more restrictions. It shouldn't be sold on street corners and in school yards to children. IMHO, our focus should be on eliminating the drug cartels and ensuring it is sold only to adults.

Yes yes yes.

[Golfingnut]

pretty accurate, normal position of all participants in one form or another on any subject in any audience of any particular flavor!

I know, that is what I said.:shrug:

[Golfingnut]

Legalizing would cut deep into the profits of the bad guys.
Legalizing would make a safer product for those that will use regardless.
Legalizing would stop many from having a criminal record for life.
Legalizing would free up the judicial system to spend time on real criminals.
All these are my personal opinions. Please no sarcastic questions.

[Golfingnut]

Little or no impact to illegal marijuana cartel?????

Pot Shops in Denver Open Door to $578 Million in Sales - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-31/pot-shops-in-denver-open-door-to-578-million-in-sales.html)

One city in one state. Wake up America. This is the real reality. We are giving billions of dollars to criminals. Please help stop that foolishness now.

[KeepingItReal]

Little or no impact to illegal marijuana cartel?????

Pot Shops in Denver Open Door to $578 Million in Sales - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-31/pot-shops-in-denver-open-door-to-578-million-in-sales.html)

One city in one state. Wake up America. This is the real reality. We are giving billions of dollars to criminals. Please help stop that foolishness now.




Might want to read this article;

Colorado-Launches-Campaign-to-Stop-Stoned-Driving


Colorado Launches Campaign to Stop Stoned Driving (http://www.wbko.com/home/headlines/Colorado-Launches-Campaign-to-Stop-Stoned-Driving-248973621.html)

DENVER (AP) -- Colorado, where recreational marijuana is legal, is now trying to combat stoned driving in the state.

The Colorado Department of Transportation has come out with a $1 million ad campaign called "Drive High, Get a DUI," which reminds drivers that pot should be treated like alcohol.

One ad shows a spaced-out basketball player at the foul line in a playground, endlessly dribbling while his teammates wait in frustration.

Another ad shows a middle-aged man who hangs a flat-screen TV and celebrates with some tortilla chips and salsa, only to see the TV crash to the floor and shatter.

Bob Ticer, the chairman of Colorado's Interagency Task Force on Drunk Driving, says, "Enforcement is very important when it comes to impaired driving, but education is equally important."

The Colorado State Patrol says since January, about one-half of all the impaired drivers stopped in the state had smoked marijuana.

[rubicon]

But Bucco - should some dumb young 20 something spend time in prison cause he just bought some weed to smoke and got caught with a gram over the legal limit? What does that accomplish? That is where my confusion comes in. I have personally seen the ravages of marijuana and am not happy about it being legalized, but I also don't want to see people spending a good part of the lives in jail over it either. That is my confusion. And it is not simply a matter of "just say no". Easier said then done in todays world. Just don't know what the answer is - it's not black and white in my mind.

gomoho: Should that same rationale be applied to booze, prescription drugs, etc.???????????????????????????????

[Golfingnut]

Might want to read this article;

Colorado-Launches-Campaign-to-Stop-Stoned-Driving


Colorado Launches Campaign to Stop Stoned Driving (http://www.wbko.com/home/headlines/Colorado-Launches-Campaign-to-Stop-Stoned-Driving-248973621.html)

DENVER (AP) -- Colorado, where recreational marijuana is legal, is now trying to combat stoned driving in the state.

The Colorado Department of Transportation has come out with a $1 million ad campaign called "Drive High, Get a DUI," which reminds drivers that pot should be treated like alcohol.

One ad shows a spaced-out basketball player at the foul line in a playground, endlessly dribbling while his teammates wait in frustration.

Another ad shows a middle-aged man who hangs a flat-screen TV and celebrates with some tortilla chips and salsa, only to see the TV crash to the floor and shatter.

Bob Ticer, the chairman of Colorado's Interagency Task Force on Drunk Driving, says, "Enforcement is very important when it comes to impaired driving, but education is equally important."

The Colorado State Patrol says since January, about one-half of all the impaired drivers stopped in the state had smoked marijuana.
WBKO RADIO Not worth wasting time on that place.

[Golfingnut]

Find the facts not the emotion.

Medical Marijuana Treatment Uses and How It Works (http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/features/medical-marijuana-uses)

[Bucco]

Find the facts not the emotion.

Medical Marijuana Treatment Uses and How It Works (http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/features/medical-marijuana-uses)

Was under the impression that this was about RECREATIONAL use, not medical !!!

[gomoho]

Bucco, we already have a legal drug that alters the mind and the mood. It's called alcohol. It was legalized because Prohibition didn't work.

But that is not the only purpose of alcohol - to alter the mind and mood. A glass of wine can compliment dinner or desert, a beer is refreshing on a hot summer day, a cocktail can be enjoyed for its layers of flavor. I have never heard anyone say how good a toke tastes - only how good it makes them fell. Its only purpose is to alter the mind and mood (unless you consider the medical purpose).

The use of marijuana is prevalent and it isn't going to go away. The point I'm trying to make is that if marijuana were legalized, there would hopefully be more restrictions. It shouldn't be sold on street corners and in school yards to children. IMHO, our focus should be on eliminating the drug cartels and ensuring it is sold only to adults.

I don't know how making it legal keeps it out of children's hands. The initial thought on the third graders that we caught smoking in the school bathroom is these kids got it from home. If the fact that it is against the law doesn't keep it out of kid's hands how will making it legal accomplish that?

[gomoho]

Legalizing would cut deep into the profits of the bad guys.
Legalizing would make a safer product for those that will use regardless.
Legalizing would stop many from having a criminal record for life.
Legalizing would free up the judicial system to spend time on real criminals.
All these are my personal opinions. Please no sarcastic questions.

You forgot something:

Legalizing would enable some folks that stay away now because of the law to go ahead and light up and potentially go down a slippery slope.
My personal opinion. Please no sarcastic questions.

[DougB]

Legalizing marijuana would take a JOINT effort!

[Golfingnut]

Legalizing it would put a major crunch on street sales thereby making it more difficult for unauthorized buyers from finding a source. Denver is experiencing a decline in street sales already and a reduction of underage users.

[TexaninVA]

Find the facts not the emotion.

Medical Marijuana Treatment Uses and How It Works (http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/features/medical-marijuana-uses)

You are posting in the wrong thread again, fyi.

[Golfingnut]

You forgot something:

Legalizing would enable some folks that stay away now because of the law to go ahead and light up and potentially go down a slippery slope.
My personal opinion. Please no sarcastic questions.

Good point and I agree it is very likely to happen, but in smaller numbers than the numbers from the beneficial aspect of legalization.

[sharonga]

Legalize it and tell me where to buy it. Please don't tell the FBI or CIA. I am paranoid enough!!!!

[rp001]

Has anyone thought about the possibility of unintended consequences? Do you want to live in a "Dumb And Dumber" dumbed down society? Don't we have enough of that already?

If marijuana becomes legal for recreational use, there will be many more young people using it than otherwise would have. Once it is officially sanctioned and approved, it will seem totally harmless to new generations of young people.

Has anyone figured out what the costs of that might be?

Oh please

[2BNTV]

Medical yes, if necessary. Recreational, NO.

I fully realize there is a slippery slope on this issue. :smiley:

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Villages PL View Post

Has anyone thought about the possibility of unintended consequences? Do you want to live in a "Dumb And Dumber" dumbed down society? Don't we have enough of that already?

If marijuana becomes legal for recreational use, there will be many more young people using it than otherwise would have. Once it is officially sanctioned and approved, it will seem totally harmless to new generations of young people.

Has anyone figured out what the costs of that might be?


Oh please

RP .... In spite of your eyes rolling at VillagesPL very uncool and un-hip comments, he is in fact spot on IMHO. In addition, the impact on younger kids (ie many more using it over time ) is completely predicable.

[gomoho]

Originally Posted by Villages PL View Post

RP .... In spite of your eyes rolling at VillagesPL very uncool and un-hip comments, he is in fact spot on IMHO. In addition, the impact on younger kids (ie many more using it over time ) is completely predicable.

I wonder how much of this balderdash about legalizing isn't an attempt to appear as hip or cool - look at me I'm living on the edge. I've lived through the potential devastating effects of marijuana and just can't wrap my arms around the idea of making it legal. We are already suffering in this country from people that are not motivated to work, what on earth will happen if there are more on that roll cause they're smoked up and just can't do it!

At the risk of repeating myself "even Governor Jerry Moonbeam Brown from California has admitted legalization could create a very unproductive society".

[KeepingItReal]

WBKO RADIO Not worth wasting time on that place.




Too much pot already?


THAT PLACE Happens to be WBKO TV Station not radio, but it is a good example of the problem with pot smoking.

Here's another copy of the story from a different source you might like better:

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/24...stoned-driving

Excerpt from the story:

Washington, the only other state that has legalized recreational pot, saw more than 1,300 drivers test positive for marijuana last year - that's almost 25 percent more than in 2012.

Of those, 720 had levels high enough to lead to an automatic drugged driving conviction, though Washington officials say there's been no corresponding jump in car accidents.

Colorado's $1 million ad campaign, which begins March 10, comes from a federal grant from the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration.

A Spanish-language ad campaign is launching next week, too. Those ads show a man blowing smoke and the message, "When you use marijuana, don't drive."

Dispensary owners helped develop the Colorado ads and plan to voluntarily hand out brochures and hang "Drive High, Get a DUI" posters.

"We recognize our duty to be a part of the DUID conversation," said Elan Nelson, a dispensary worker who is vice chairwoman of the state's Medical Marijuana Industry Group.

___

Associated Press Writer Gene Johnson in Seattle contributed to this report.

___

Kristen Wyatt can be reached at http://www.twitter.com/APkristenwyatt

[KeepingItReal]

This is a rational post. Marijuana is easily accessible now and often sold to young kids. I'd rather see it legalized and restricted to adults.


Like cigarettes, that really worked out well......

This story proves that kids will have pot more than ever before.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_24501596/pot-problems-colorado-schools-increase-legalization

GRAND JUNCTION — In two years of work as an undercover officer with a drug task force, Mike Dillon encountered plenty of drugs. But nothing has surprised him as much as what he has seen in schools lately.

Dillon, who is now a school resource officer with the Mesa County Sheriff's Department, said he is seeing more and younger kids bringing marijuana to schools, in sometimes-surprising quantities.

"When we have middle school kids show up with a half an ounce, that is shocking to me," Dillon said.

The same phenomenon is being reported around Colorado after the 2010 regulation of medical marijuana dispensaries and the 2012 vote to legalize recreational marijuana.

The Nasal Ranger
Nasal Ranger
When Pot smells in Denver... The Nasal Ranger goes to investigate
There are no hard numbers yet because school disciplinary statistics do not isolate marijuana from general drug violations. But school resource officers, counselors, nurses, staff and officials with Colorado school safety and disciplinary programs are anecdotally reporting an increase in marijuana-related incidents in middle and high schools.

"We have seen a sharp rise in drug-related disciplinary actions which, anecdotally, from credible sources, is being attributed to the changing social norms surrounding marijuana," said Janelle Krueger. Krueger is the program manager for Expelled and At-Risk Student Services for the Colorado Department of Education

Krueger said school officials believe the jump is linked to the message that legalization (even though it is still prohibited for anyone under 21) is sending to kids: that marijuana is a medicine and a safe and accepted recreational activity. It is also believed to be more available.

Marijuana that parents or other adults might have kept hidden in the past may now be left in the open, where it is easier for kids to dip into it to sell, use or, in some cases, simply to show off, said school officials and law enforcement.

"They just want to be cool," said Dillon of some of the younger students he has seen with pot at school.

Krueger, who has been an adviser to resource officers across Colorado for 17 years, said she has heard many stories from officers about kids bringing pot to schools.

One that an officer related at a meeting recently involved a student dropping a small baggie of marijuana from his pocket as he was walking down a school hallway. The school principal was walking past the student at the time and picked up the pot. He asked the student if it belonged to him. The student immediately admitted it was his and reached out to take it back from the principal.

What struck Krueger and the officer about this incident was the fact that the student didn't seem to realize that there was anything wrong with having the pot or that there would be any disciplinary consequence for it. The officer said the student acted like having marijuana was an ordinary thing and no big deal.

Jeff Grady, a Grand Junction school resource officer who has spent 25 years working in schools, tells a story about sitting in his car at a park near Grand Junction High School one day watching groups of kids through binoculars because they come to the park to smoke on lunch breaks.

"Kids are smoking before school and during lunch breaks. They come into school reeking of pot," he said. "They are being much more brazen."

He said school officials call him and he talks to the kids, but it is a little more difficult now to cite them if they aren't caught in the act. They can say that they were around an adult medical marijuana user and weren't smoking themselves, Grady said.

http://speaknowcolorado.org/fact-zone/mixing-marijuana-alcohol/

[KeepingItReal]

I see a common connection between no votes for legalized marijuana, no vote for gun control, no vote for immigration reform and a no vote for minimum wage increase. Having issue with one or two, no big deal, but when someone is against all, I see a problem.

And what problem is that and why does it matter?

[wendyquat]

Oh go ahead and legalize it! I can see the "dumbing down" has already started!

[Golfingnut]

Too much pot already?


THAT PLACE Happens to be WBKO TV Station not radio, but it is a good example of the problem with pot smoking.

Here's another copy of the story from a different source you might like better:

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/24...stoned-driving

Excerpt from the story:

Washington, the only other state that has legalized recreational pot, saw more than 1,300 drivers test positive for marijuana last year - that's almost 25 percent more than in 2012.

Of those, 720 had levels high enough to lead to an automatic drugged driving conviction, though Washington officials say there's been no corresponding jump in car accidents.

Colorado's $1 million ad campaign, which begins March 10, comes from a federal grant from the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration.

A Spanish-language ad campaign is launching next week, too. Those ads show a man blowing smoke and the message, "When you use marijuana, don't drive."

Dispensary owners helped develop the Colorado ads and plan to voluntarily hand out brochures and hang "Drive High, Get a DUI" posters.

"We recognize our duty to be a part of the DUID conversation," said Elan Nelson, a dispensary worker who is vice chairwoman of the state's Medical Marijuana Industry Group.

___

Associated Press Writer Gene Johnson in Seattle contributed to this report.

___

Kristen Wyatt can be reached at http://www.twitter.com/APkristenwyatt

Sorry, but you source is a fox affiliate. Please pic a legitimate one.

[Golfingnut]

This very thread has the legalization of MEDICAL MARIJUANA ahead in the polls 2 to 1. Twice as many of your fellow villagers are in favor. It is not a case of right/wrong or uncaring/compassion. There is and will always be a faction around that feels they are better equipped to dictate laws to the majority; however, as long as we are a democratic society, we all must respect our way and honor the final decision. Overall, America and all her laws is the best thing going. Let's enjoy her together.

Lou

[Golfingnut]

Some people you may know have used the devils weed.

2013 Top 50 Most Influential Marijuana Users (http://www.mpp.org/outreach/top-50-marijuana-users-list.html?page=3)

[Golfingnut]

OH, you this this is a new fad?

You should then be shocked by this.

13 Historical People Who Smoked Weed | Marijuana Use Through History (Page 6) (http://www.ranker.com/list/13-ways-important-historical-figures-used-marijuana/sarakate?format=SLIDESHOW&page=6)

[gomoho]

This very thread has the legalization of MEDICAL MARIJUANA ahead in the polls 2 to 1. Twice as many of your fellow villagers are in favor. It is not a case of right/wrong or uncaring/compassion. There is and will always be a faction around that feels they are better equipped to dictate laws to the majority; however, as long as we are a democratic society, we all must respect our way and honor the final decision. Overall, America and all her laws is the best thing going. Let's enjoy her together.

Lou

Are you aware you contradict yourself in the other thread saying it's the old people that don't want to legalize it? Maybe it's time to put down that joint.

[TexaninVA]

Here's the way I see it ... if we legalize recreational marijuana, we can safely predict that the use of dope in the population will expand. In addition, more young kids will become users than otherwise would have for several reasons including easier access etc

Thus, as Villagers, if one votes for legalizing recreational pot, one is also saying "sure, it's ok with me if my grandkids smoke pot ... no problem"

That's why I voted against it.

[Taltarzac725]

I have never smoked a joint and never would, however I would support legalization.
Instead of making smugglers, street hustlers, and Central and South American cartels rich, why not have it grown and controlled by Americans as it is in Colorado?
Instead of paying for the incarceration of tens of thousands of users and sellers, and spending millions on eradication and police work why not save that tax money and add the tax money on maijuana?
I think most people who want to smoke it already do, it seems to be easily accessable.
Seems to me the quality would likely improve and the controls over it would insure better and safer product.

I agree with this assessment. I wrote a lengthy paper while at the University of Minnesota Law School on the laws of the Prohibition in Minnesota and it seemed like the lawyers and criminals were the ones getting rich off of banning liquor and the law did not seemed to be doing a whole lot of good on controlling liquor and its consumption. It seemed to make drinking more attractive especially to rebellious teens and twenty somethings.

[Golfingnut]

Are you aware you contradict yourself in the other thread saying it's the old people that don't want to legalize it? Maybe it's time to put down that joint.

Not at all it's true that the older ones don't want it around. I also said, that folks in the Villages are different than the typical older American, for several reasons. Maybe it's time for yo to put the bourbon bottle under the sick.

[JB in TV]

I don't understand the comments that say if marijuana is legalized it will increase the underage use. EX: you grandkids.... Do your underage grandkids drink alcohol? If legalized, it will only be legal for adults to buy and use it. Just like alcohol. I suspect that many youth try marijuana specifically due to the fact that it is illegal.


With that said, I am not willing to try to change anybody's mind on the subject. We each have our reasons for our beliefs and what anybody else thinks about them is irrelevant, unless one of your beliefs is trying to change mine.

EDIT: Anyone who has gotten drunk knows how their reflexes and judgemt are impared. Those who have not smoked marijuana can't possible understand the difference.

[Golfingnut]

I don't understand the comments that say if marijuana is legalized it will increase the underage use. EX: you grandkids.... Do your underage grandkids drink alcohol? If legalized, it will only be legal for adults to buy and use it. Just like alcohol. I suspect that many youth try marijuana specifically due to the fact that it is illegal.


With that said, I am not willing to try to change anybody's mind on the subject. We each have our reasons for our beliefs and what anybody else thinks about them is irrelevant, unless one of your beliefs is trying to change mine.

EDIT: Anyone who has gotten drunk knows how their reflexes and judgemt are impared. Those who have not smoked marijuana can't possible understand the difference.

The sad truth is that they simply do not know.. It's all speculation at the expense of millions of Americans that could benefit from its legalization. I understand we will lose jobs due to the lack of need for street dealers, but little consequence in my mind.

[BS Beef]

Not at all it's true that the older ones don't want it around. I also said, that folks in the Villages are different than the typical older American, for several reasons. Maybe it's time for yo to put the bourbon bottle under the sick.

Sorry but you lose the battle over who's holding the bottle of bourbon and who's holding a bong. :1rotfl:

Just thought it was funny, not picking sides :ho:

[graciegirl]

I was supported financially through childhood by drugs. If you want to look at it that way. My family was in the beer brewing industry.


My father and grandfather were brewmasters, and both of them used a lot of alcohol.


I have to say that I am surprised at the polls on this forum that obviously support the legalization of marijuana for both medical and recreational use.


You never grow too old to be surprised. I am still mulling it over.


Our daughter said that the biggest surprise to her were the kids who had not been allowed to try alcohol in their home were tryin' it big time in college.


I am a HUGE fan of moderation. But some can't be moderate. It is just not part of their personality or genetic make up.


I guess this will be an "I told you so" on the part of somebody if it becomes legal.

[Golfingnut]

I would not smoke a joint if it was handed to me by surgeon general and the highest ranked district attorney gave me the nod that it was legal now.

I also will not tell a person suffering that would benefit from its use NO because we think it might not be a good idea.

We have to many freedoms taken away from us by government already

[BS Beef]

[quote=Golfingnut;841115]Thank you for being sensible.[/quote

Why is it that every one that agrees with you is "sensible" and every one you disagree with is confused and misguided? I have found that to be the case in every single thread I have ever seen you write.

[Golfingnut]

[quote=Golfingnut;841115]Thank you for being sensible.[/quote

Why is it that every one that agrees with you is "sensible" and every one you disagree with is confused and misguided? I have found that to be the case in every single thread I have ever seen you write.

Thank you very much, my thought is because they are and the others are not.

[gomoho]

[quote=Golfingnut;841115]Thank you for being sensible.[/quote

Why is it that every one that agrees with you is "sensible" and every one you disagree with is confused and misguided? I have found that to be the case in every single thread I have ever seen you write.

Unintended consequence of smoking "the wicked weed'???

[gomoho]

Not at all it's true that the older ones don't want it around. I also said, that folks in the Villages are different than the typical older American, for several reasons. Maybe it's time for yo to put the bourbon bottle under the sick.

Here is your exact quote from the other post "It is the law in many states now an will soon be the law of the entire country. The fact that old people are the main objection to this coming attraction proves to me that it is right to legalize it. "

Don't see any reference to the folks in The Villages being different. And I drink wine not bourbon.

__________________

[Golfingnut]

Here is your exact quote from the other post "It is the law in many states now an will soon be the law of the entire country. The fact that old people are the main objection to this coming attraction proves to me that it is right to legalize it. "

Don't see any reference to the folks in The Villages being different. And I drink wine not bourbon.

__________________

Thrust me, it's complicated.

[Villages PL]

I agree with your comments 100%. I am currently living in The Netherlands where pot is legal. You don't see the populus running around high and the crime rate is lower than my hometown in Michigan.As a retired lawyer and prosecutor we wasted tons of time and money on cases involving small amounts of grass. Just raised money for the courts and kept some police officers busy.

As a retired lawyer you might not see "the populous running around high" just as Villagers don't see it. We live protected lives; we don't live in some of the riskier urban areas. And it's not something you would likely notice just by taking a drive through such an area.

We don't want risky behavior spreading more widely.

You could say the same about alcohol. Alcohol is legal in the U.S. and you don't see people falling down drunk in the streets. But that doesn't mean it's not a problem. That's just an example of choosing to gloss over the problem.

[Villages PL]

And the spin continues. I do sincerely ask all to get your information from people that know. How many people with a criminal record is enough.

Didn't someone say to use common sense? Well, let's try this: Instead of telling us we should legalize marijuana so people won't get criminal records, how about telling lawbreakers to stop breaking the law? Should we stop enforcing speed limits on the roadways because too many people are getting speeding tickets?

Legalize marijuana and you put the dealers out of business and I can only imagine the savings from the judicial system.

What else should we legalize? Prostitution? Cocaine? Dog fighting? Pedophilia? Public nudity? Public drunkenness? Look at all the money we would save on law enforcement if we would all become anarchists.

[Golfingnut]

Didn't someone say to use common sense? Well, let's try this: Instead of telling us we should legalize marijuana so people won't get criminal records, how about telling lawbreakers to stop breaking the law? Should we stop enforcing speed limits on the roadways because too many people are getting speeding tickets?



What else should we legalize? Prostitution? Cocaine? Dog fighting? Pedophilia? Public nudity? Public drunkenness? Look at all the money we would save on law enforcement if we would all become anarchists.

Prostitution. Yes, cocaine, no, Dog fighting. No, Pedophilia. No, Public nudity. Maybe. Drunk in public definite yes to teach the young what not to do.

Thanks for all the things you needed help with.

[Barefoot]

Didn't someone say to use common sense? Well, let's try this: Instead of telling us we should legalize marijuana so people won't get criminal records, how about telling lawbreakers to stop breaking the law?

What else should we legalize? Prostitution? Cocaine? Dog fighting? Pedophilia? Public nudity? Public drunkenness? Look at all the money we would save on law enforcement if we would all become anarchists.

OK, let's use common sense as you suggested. When people were told to stop drinking during Prohibition, they went to bootleggers. And that is what is happening today, drug pushers are bootlegging marijuana and often selling it to children. Better to have it legalized and restricted to adults.

I haven't seen anyone suggesting we all become anarchists.
Anarchist
1. a person who advocates or believes in anarchy or anarchism.
2. a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing any other system of order in the place of that destroyed.
3. a person who promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom.

[Golfingnut]

OK, let's use common sense as you suggested. When people were told to stop drinking during Prohibition, they went to bootleggers. And that is what is happening today, drug pushers are bootlegging marijuana and often selling it to children. Better to have it legalized and restricted to adults.

I haven't seen anyone suggesting we all become anarchists. Perhaps a tad of exaggeration here?

Anarchist
1. a person who advocates or believes in anarchy or anarchism.
2. a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing any other system of order in the place of that destroyed.
3. a person who promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom.

I wish I had your wisdom. Nones of us want a stoned or drunk population, but sense and sensibility need to rule.

[Bucco]

OK, let's use common sense as you suggested. When people were told to stop drinking during Prohibition, they went to bootleggers. And that is what is happening today, drug pushers are bootlegging marijuana and often selling it to children. Better to have it legalized and restricted to adults.

I haven't seen anyone suggesting we all become anarchists. Perhaps a tad of exaggeration here?

Anarchist
1. a person who advocates or believes in anarchy or anarchism.
2. a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing any other system of order in the place of that destroyed.
3. a person who promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom.

May I ask a question of those who advocate legalization of RECREATIONAL marijuana with all due respect.....

What is the purpose of smoking marijuana ? I know that society wants to rid us of all smoking, but why do people smoke marijana ?

[Golfingnut]

May I ask a question of those who advocate legalization of RECREATIONAL marijuana with all due respect.....

What is the purpose of smoking marijuana ? I know that society wants to rid us of all smoking, but why do people smoke marijana ?

The primary reason to smoke marijuana is to get the same buzz as one does with alcohol, but does not have the hangover; therefore can function the next day with no ill effects nor loss of productivity.

[gomoho]

The primary reason to smoke marijuana is to get the same buzz as one does with alcohol, but does not have the hangover; therefore can function the next day with no ill effects nor loss of productivity.

Once again "one man's opinion" - my experience, particularly with youth smoking marijuana is they may be functioning, but there are ill effects and a definite loss of productivity. Actually now that I think of it I know a guy in his 30s that smokes daily who has probably cut his potential in half cause too many times he just can't get it together enough to get the job done. Oh yeah, and then there is my good friend that was a mortgage broker that just wasn't quite on his game if he was smoked up the night before. It's all in perspective and whose eyes you are seeing this through.

I will never forget the day on of my son's friends told my husband and I that he was convinced his mind was sharper and he DROVE better when he was high. That is how a mind under the influence thinks - not real capable of rational thinking.

I believe it would be interesting to have someone that use to smoke speak up about looking back and if they felt their productivity suffered or anything else in their life. I know when I was young and smoking I thought I was in the best form ever - mind sharp and could do anything (if only I could get off the couch). Looking back I see what was really going on and it was fun for a while when I was young, but when I needed to get serious about life I got serious about life and learned to have a good time without the buzz.

[TexaninVA]

Oh go ahead and legalize it! I can see the "dumbing down" has already started!

That is actually a very accurate observation .... the last part of your comment that is.

[NoMoSno]

Had a conversation with my son, years ago.
Asked him why some of his classmates were using meth.
He said it was cheaper and easier to get than pot.
All the ingredients were available at Walmart for making it.

Something to think about...

[Golfingnut]

Once again "one man's opinion" - my experience, particularly with youth smoking marijuana is they may be functioning, but there are ill effects and a definite loss of productivity. Actually now that I think of it I know a guy in his 30s that smokes daily who has probably cut his potential in half cause too many times he just can't get it together enough to get the job done. Oh yeah, and then there is my good friend that was a mortgage broker that just wasn't quite on his game if he was smoked up the night before. It's all in perspective and whose eyes you are seeing this through.

I will never forget the day on of my son's friends told my husband and I that he was convinced his mind was sharper and he DROVE better when he was high. That is how a mind under the influence thinks - not real capable of rational thinking.

I believe it would be interesting to have someone that use to smoke speak up about looking back and if they felt their productivity suffered or anything else in their life. I know when I was young and smoking I thought I was in the best form ever - mind sharp and could do anything (if only I could get off the couch). Looking back I see what was really going on and it was fun for a while when I was young, but when I needed to get serious about life I got serious about life and learned to have a good time without the buzz.

He, you would fund I am correct. Give it up and except reality?
Being an old cute is not helping anything.

[gomoho]

He, you would fund I am correct. Give it up and except reality?
Being an old cute is not helping anything.

Could you please repeat this in English??? Not sure what you are saying.

[Golfingnut]

Could you please repeat this in English??? Not sure what you are saying.

People over 65 should shut up an listen io those younger.

[DonH57]

I'm sure people smoke pot for same countless reasons they drink beer, eat steak, cross the road, or any other activity. It's their thing I quess.

[Bucco]

I'm sure people smoke pot for same countless reasons they drink beer, eat steak, cross the road, or any other activity. It's their thing I quess.

The only reason I asked the question is that I tend to "hit the books" on issues and after doing some extensive reading at various medical and psychiatric sites, I was wondering why anyone would want to happen to their mind and body was this does.

I am not speaking of heavy use....if you read that it is flat out scary, the long range proven things that happen to you, but even regular old 1 or 2 a day really plays with your mind and it has NO relationship to alcohol. Fact is, police will NOT be able to id drivers who are on it without a blood test administered and that is not going to happen without a warrant....thus will be tough to prove that the driver who hit you was stoned.

It works NOT like alcohol on a change in your personallity with just ONE.

I dont know...you folks seem like you have studied it all and got it all together and are ok with your kids and grandkids partaking....I find it rather offensive. AS DOES ALL medical groups in the USA....NOT ONE supports recreational use for the mental and phsychiatric reasons I alluded to.

Ok.....let it go....I surely do not want anyone in my family altering thier personality or damaging their pychiatric health......and I also read that ONE marijuana is equal to FIVE regular ciggs....so the lung damage etc is also there. If you read about heavy usage, it is flat out terrifying.

But, you folks are on board...remember you oft times get what you wish for !!

Oh, and ALL studies at this point lead to this FOR SURE being a gateway drug, meaning this is just a step.

Nuff out of me....

[Golfingnut]

The only reason I asked the question is that I tend to "hit the books" on issues and after doing some extensive reading at various medical and psychiatric sites, I was wondering why anyone would want to happen to their mind and body was this does.

I am not speaking of heavy use....if you read that it is flat out scary, the long range proven things that happen to you, but even regular old 1 or 2 a day really plays with your mind and it has NO relationship to alcohol. Fact is, police will NOT be able to id drivers who are on it without a blood test administered and that is not going to happen without a warrant....thus will be tough to prove that the driver who hit you was stoned.

It works NOT like alcohol on a change in your personallity with just ONE.

I dont know...you folks seem like you have studied it all and got it all together and are ok with your kids and grandkids partaking....I find it rather offensive. AS DOES ALL medical groups in the USA....NOT ONE supports recreational use for the mental and phsychiatric reasons I alluded to.

Ok.....let it go....I surely do not want anyone in my family altering thier personality or damaging their pychiatric health......and I also read that ONE marijuana is equal to FIVE regular ciggs....so the lung damage etc is also there. If you read about heavy usage, it is flat out terrifying.

But, you folks are on board...remember you oft times get what you wish for !!

Oh, and ALL studies at this point lead to this FOR SURE being a gateway drug, meaning this is just a step.

Nuff out of me....

Whew. Then your. Done, maybe there is a GOD.

Stay tuned folks, more on the flip side. Let the foggies go to bed so we can discus with inteilegence.

[DougB]

The only reason I asked the question is that I tend to "hit the books" on issues and after doing some extensive reading at various medical and psychiatric sites, I was wondering why anyone would want to happen to their mind and body was this does.

I am not speaking of heavy use....if you read that it is flat out scary, the long range proven things that happen to you, but even regular old 1 or 2 a day really plays with your mind and it has NO relationship to alcohol. Fact is, police will NOT be able to id drivers who are on it without a blood test administered and that is not going to happen without a warrant....thus will be tough to prove that the driver who hit you was stoned.

It works NOT like alcohol on a change in your personallity with just ONE.

I dont know...you folks seem like you have studied it all and got it all together and are ok with your kids and grandkids partaking....I find it rather offensive.

AS DOES ALL medical groups in the USA....NOT ONE supports recreational use for the mental and phsychiatric reasons I alluded to.

Ok.....let it go....I surely do not want anyone in my family altering thier personality or damaging their pychiatric health......and I also read that ONE marijuana is equal to FIVE regular ciggs....so the lung damage etc is also there. If you read about heavy usage, it is flat out terrifying.

But, you folks are on board...remember you oft times get what you wish for !!

Oh, and ALL studies at this point lead to this FOR SURE being a gateway drug, meaning this is just a step.

Nuff out of me....

Dude, that's a real buzz killer.

[Golfingnut]

Dude, that's a real buzz killer.

He means well and has some good input, just so far out of reality for today, he is hard to follow.

[graciegirl]

Bucco is a kind, smart, well informed person.

[JB in TV]

I think many on TOTV would be very surprised to see how many people they know who smoked marijuana, perhaps even heavily, in the old days, and went on to lead very normal lives, had very successful careers and now call TV their home. Without ever going on to "hard drugs"

[Golfingnut]

I think many on TOTV would be very surprised to see how many people they know who smoked marijuana, perhaps even heavily, in the old days, and went on to lead very normal lives, had very succesful careers and now call TV their home. Without going on to "hard drugs"

I have family members that have smoked it daily for 50 years with less harmful effects than my 40 years of beer.

[TexaninVA]

He means well and has some good input, just so far out of reality for today, he is hard to follow.


Wow Nut, talk about the pot calling the kettle black ... breathtaking.

[TexaninVA]

People over 65 should shut up an listen io those younger.

Does that advice pertain to you as well?

[Bucco]

I think many on TOTV would be very surprised to see how many people they know who smoked marijuana, perhaps even heavily, in the old days, and went on to lead very normal lives, had very successful careers and now call TV their home. Without ever going on to "hard drugs"

I am sure that is true....never quoted anyone about it being that way for 100 %.

Sorry if I misled you or insulted you. Of course it is different for everyone....was just pointing out what all the medical and psychiatric folks say it can do and all the medical and phychiatric groups in the country support. I am not a medical expert as many on here must be, thus can only repeat what I have learned.

[Golfingnut]

Does that advice pertain to you as well?

Absolutely it does. We like to think we have experience and wisdom. Bunk. We are old, out of date and YES we should allow the younger generation to take care of us advise us and make final decisions for us.
:boom:

[Russ_Boston]

No vote here from me but I'll make a very easy prediction:


Pot will be legal, such as Colorado, in at least 30 states within 15 years.


I think back about 20 years to the states who didn't have Lottery or Casinos. As time went on they saw all the money they were losing. Now I don't know of ANY state that doesn't have some form of Lotto. And many states (not just Indian nation Casinos) have casinos and more to come such as Massachusetts. That number will reach all 50 very soon.


I also predict that there will be zero subsequent problems discovered. In other words as time passes and studies are done there will be no significant increases in car accidents or decreases in test scores etc.


A hundred years from now people will say "Marijuana used to be illegal?" What were they thinking? Much the same as we say about a law almost 100 years ago that prohibited alcohol sales.


Remember, not all laws were created with great forethought. At one time in this great nation we didn't allow women to vote or blacks to eat in the same restaurant as whites. Not all change is bad!


My 3 cents - good night - I have to set my clock ahead one hour and be at the hospital at 5:15!

[gomoho]

People over 65 should shut up an listen io those younger.

okay, but I am not yet 65 so what does that have to do with me and who the hell are you to tell anyone at any age to shut up and listen. Guess you were too smoked up to understand that quite often with age comes wisdom.

[gomoho]

Golfingnut - reading over your posts you seem to be getting angry in an attempt to defend your position. RELAX man - it's all good.

[CFrance]

Amazing to me that Admin is allowing this thread to go on, the way people are starting to attack each other personally.

I personally think Russ Boston has a handle on it all. But he's already asleep.

[billethkid]

People over 65 should shut up an listen io those younger.


Maybe it was supposed to be funny! It isn't.

[DonH57]

Personal attacks gain nothing. At the point it becomes personal it's best to take a breather and step back.

[wendyquat]

BUT, well beyond his time and should not be up this late talking to adults.

One thing is for sure that half of your screen name well applies! Me thinks you are trying to pick a fight! You don't go on a forum comprised primarily of "seniors" and call us "foggies"!

I don't know your age but I'm betting we "foggies" can tell you a thing or two!

Now find yourself a "stoner" forum and leave us to our codgitating!

[gamby]

Answer is NO;

Tax dollars are the motive for this . The same reason Cigarettes are still for sale.

I've seen so many people start off with booze in their teens then POT then Heroin.
One person in mind just died on Xmas day from drugs. He lost everything in his 20s wife,3 great kids , job, and any friends.
He spent his life in and out of Prison. Turns out 2 of his brothers took the same route starting with booze and POT then Heroin.

[Barefoot]

No vote here from me but I'll make a very easy prediction:
Pot will be legal, such as Colorado, in at least 30 states within 15 years. I think back about 20 years to the states who didn't have Lottery or Casinos. As time went on they saw all the money they were losing. Now I don't know of ANY state that doesn't have some form of Lotto. And many states (not just Indian nation Casinos) have casinos and more to come such as Massachusetts. That number will reach all 50 very soon.

I also predict that there will be zero subsequent problems discovered. In other words as time passes and studies are done there will be no significant increases in car accidents or decreases in test scores etc. A hundred years from now people will say "Marijuana used to be illegal?" What were they thinking? Much the same as we say about a law almost 100 years ago that prohibited alcohol sales. Remember, not all laws were created with great forethought. At one time in this great nation we didn't allow women to vote or blacks to eat in the same restaurant as whites. Not all change is bad!

As usual, Russ presents a logical and unemotional viewpoint.

[rp001]

Answer is NO;

Tax dollars are the motive for this . The same reason Cigarettes are still for sale.

I've seen so many people start off with booze in their teens then POT then Heroin.
One person in mind just died on Xmas day from drugs. He lost everything in his 20s wife,3 great kids , job, and any friends.
He spent his life in and out of Prison. Turns out 2 of his brothers took the same route starting with booze and POT then Heroin.

Once and for all, Pot is Not a gateway drug. People fall victim to their own neediness and it could have just as easily been sugar addiction. I question the validity of this post!

[TexaninVA]

Once and for all, Pot is Not a gateway drug. People fall victim to their own neediness and it could have just as easily been sugar addiction. I question the validity of this post!

In my experience, and personal observation, pot is very much a gateway drug. That's not to say all who use pot graduate to a higher drug, but those who get there got started with pot. I agree that the neediness and lack of self confidence is a factor as well. Pot for many is a crutch, just like booze is to some people.

[JourneyOfLife]

The poll numbers are fairly interesting.

If the TV political leanings (generally speaking) are any indication, one might conclude that there are a larger number of conservatives or conservative leaning people that took this poll and the medical poll on the other thread.

Of course it is not scientific or random... but still.

If this poll is any indication of a cross-section of people from different states... I agree with the observation Russ made in an earlier post on this thread.

[quirky3]

The poll numbers are fairly interesting.

If the TV political leanings (generally speaking) are any indication, one might conclude that there are a larger number of conservatives or conservative leaning people that took this poll and the medical poll on the other thread.

Of course it is not scientific or random... but still.

If this poll is any indication of a cross-section of people from different states... I agree with the observation Russ made in an earlier post on this thread.

Actually, I was thinking that the survey numbers reflect a clear shift in the political leanings of the TOTV respondents. As of this morning, they favor legalization of recreational marijuana almost 3 to 1, and legalization of medicinal marijuana about 6 to 1. Perception is sometimes VERY different from facts!

[TexaninVA]

The poll numbers are fairly interesting.

If the TV political leanings (generally speaking) are any indication, one might conclude that there are a larger number of conservatives or conservative leaning people that took this poll and the medical poll on the other thread.

Of course it is not scientific or random... but still.

If this poll is any indication of a cross-section of people from different states... I agree with the observation Russ made in an earlier post on this thread.

The results are interesting, and somewhat counter intuitive is one is to believes TV's reputation as being generally conservative. It's clear the ayes have it but a strong margin. Once the poll completes, we can discuss the implications, demographics, who likely responded and so forth.

I agree with Russ that "not all change is bad" but let's face it, the reverse is equally true ... "not all change is good". It always depends on how things turn out.

[TexaninVA]

I did some quick research and, from what I can tell, there are currently four countries in the world where pot is fully legal: Netherlands, Uruguay, Bangladesh and North Korea.

If the US legalizes pot, we will be joining an elite group :)

[joerocker]

In my experience, and personal observation, pot is very much a gateway drug. That's not to say all who use pot graduate to a higher drug, but those who get there got started with pot. I agree that the neediness and lack of self confidence is a factor as well. Pot for many is a crutch, just like booze is to some people.

People can't have "crutches"? Why not? Not everyone is as emotionally strong as another. Religion is a "crutch" too. I'd be more in favor of banning that over marijuana.

This "gateway" discussion always get's so twisted. Marijuana is just one of MANY drugs that an addictive personality will go through during his lifetime. It usually starts with caffeine then moves to nicotine then on to alcohol and marijuana after that cocaine, pills, finally heroin. It's the PERSON not the drug.

Punishing everyone because a few can't handle themselves is not the answer. If sugar was outlawed for you because too many are getting fat because they ABUSE it, how would you feel? It's the same. Marijuana when used moderately, is not a problem for anyone. I lived in a marijuana friendly state, it's not a problem to society. The abusers are the problem to society. And abusers find something to abuse.

[quirky3]

People can't have "crutches"? Why not? Not everyone is as emotionally strong as another. Religion is a "crutch" too. I'd be more in favor of banning that over marijuana.

This "gateway" discussion always get's so twisted. Marijuana is just one of MANY drugs that an addictive personality will go through during his lifetime. It usually starts with caffeine then moves to nicotine then on to alcohol and marijuana after that cocaine, pills, finally heroin. It's the PERSON not the drug.

Punishing everyone because a few can't handle themselves is not the answer. If sugar was outlawed for you because too many are getting fat because they ABUSE it, how would you feel? It's the same. Marijuana when used moderately, is not a problem for anyone. I lived in a marijuana friendly state, it's not a problem to society. The abusers are the problem to society. And abusers find something to abuse.

Excellent! Very reasonable perspective.

[ilovetv]

Actually, I was thinking that the survey numbers reflect a clear shift in the political leanings of the TOTV respondents. As of this morning, they favor legalization of recreational marijuana almost 3 to 1, and legalization of medicinal marijuana about 6 to 1. Perception is sometimes VERY different from facts!

It's not a shift. It's the little-publicized fact that most people here choose to think on their own, about individual issues and candidates, and do not vote blindfolded and straight down the party line.

[TexaninVA]

People can't have "crutches"? Why not? Not everyone is as emotionally strong as another. Religion is a "crutch" too. I'd be more in favor of banning that over marijuana..

Your comment about being more in favor of banning religion than pot is ... well amazing, to put it simply. It provides insight into how you likely lead your life ... ok with me because, as is the contemporary culture mandates ... who is to judge? But, one can still make inferences and my guess is you would probably like a "religion" of some type that celebrates secular humanism or something?

Let me ask about the gateway question differently ... do you know anyone who got into heavy cocaine or heroin usage who did not start out with pot?

[TexaninVA]

It's not a shift. It's the little-publicized fact that most people here choose to think on their own, about individual issues and candidates, and do not vote blindfolded and straight down the party line.

There's also the question of what percentage of Villagers actually use, read or post to TOTV. Does anyone have data or insights on this?

[quirky3]

It's not a shift. It's the little-publicized fact that most people here choose to think on their own, about individual issues and candidates, and do not vote blindfolded and straight down the party line.

"Little publicized"....exactly. We are agreeing that perception is very different than reality.

[gomoho]

Should I worry that some individuals may be voting more than once?

And I agree with the thinking that fewer people are straight party line supporters. Most of us are smart enough to make choices on our own after gathering information.

I didn't vote on this pole, but did vote in support of medical marijuana. Two completely different principles.

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=quirky3;842340]"Little publicized"....exactly. We are agreeing that perception is very different than reality.[/QUOTE


Here is up to date information on voter registration.


Sumter County Supervisor of Elections > Voter Info > Voter Lookup (http://www.sumterelections.org/Voter-Info/Voter-Lookup.aspx)


Look at the header bar on the right.


I think we have a lot of individuals who think for themselves here.

[rubicon]

Often you see a guy standing in the middle of a street/ mall, etc pooling people with political questions. One question asked was would they sign a petition in favor of Carl Marx running for president and many people signed the petition and the other nature of the polling question were as ridiculous.

I am afraid that the so called 47% are too busy tending to their free stuff to follow the political issues of our time.

I am of the opinion if you do not pay taxes you should not get to vote and if that law applied I'll bet silly issues like I want my recreational marijuana would disappear quicker than a New York second

By the way does marijuana go better with red meat or white meat? And should one chose an ale or lager with a German menu? Just asking for those folks that seem to think that alcohol and marijuana are the same argument

[DougB]

Often you see a guy standing in the middle of a street/ mall, etc pooling people with political questions. One question asked was would they sign a petition in favor of Carl Marx running for president and many people signed the petition and the other nature of the polling question were as ridiculous.

I am afraid that the so called 47% are too busy tending to their free stuff to follow the political issues of our time.

I am of the opinion if you do not pay taxes you should not get to vote and if that law applied I'll bet silly issues like I want my recreational marijuana would disappear quicker than a New York second

By the way does marijuana go better with red meat or white meat? And should one chose an ale or lager with a German menu? Just asking for those folks that seem to think that alcohol and marijuana are the same
argument


The poll is more than two to one in favor and I believe probably all that voted in this poll pay taxes. But, you may be correct about the alcohol comparison. Those that indulge in smoking pot would probably say it goes well with both red and white meat as well as any German food when the munchies set in.

[JB in TV]

Should I worry that some individuals may be voting more than once?
....

don't think that is possible....and what would be the benefit of doing so on a purely small scale, unoffical poll?

If you had voted, you would know you can't vote more than once.

[JB in TV]

While trying to stay within the guidelines of TOTV, let me say that I personally have beliefs that disagree with some of the issues that are hot issues on both sides. So, just because of the opinion I have about recreational marijuana use, I may not feel the same way about other popular issues. Each issue in my mind is a seperate issue, and I make decisions on each one based on my own feelings, and not some platform.

OK that was clear as mud. :/

[CFrance]

While trying to stay within the guidelines of TOTV, let me say that I personally have beliefs that disagree with some of the issues that are hot issues on both sides. So, just because of the opinion I have about recreational marijuana use, I may not feel the same way about other popular issues. Each issue in my mind is a seperate issue, and I make decisions on each one based on my own feelings, and not some platform.

OK that was clear as mud. :/

I got it. In fact, you beat me to the punch. I would also speculate (note this is just my opinion) that people in TV of a certain age bracket who are otherwise conservative may have a softer opinion on marijuana because they were the age bracket that made it popular in the '60s.

[CFrance]

The poll is more than two to one in favor and I believe probably all that voted in this poll pay taxes. But, you may be correct about the alcohol comparison. Those that indulge in smoking pot would probably say it goes well with both red and white meat as well as any German food when the munchies set in.

Oh, I didn't know brownies were a German food!:coolsmiley:

[TexaninVA]

...
I am afraid that the so called 47% are too busy tending to their free stuff to follow the political issues of our time.

I am of the opinion if you do not pay taxes you should not get to vote and if that law applied I'll bet silly issues like I want my recreational marijuana would disappear quicker than a New York second



This is the most politically incorrect, yet accurate comment, I've seen in a while on TOTV. Thanks for saying it!

Let me repeat with emphasis, and irrespective of the legalizing pot poll ... if you do not pay taxes or work in some capacity, you should NOT be legally entitled to vote. It's that simple.

The reason is obvious ... at some point, once 50% of the population figure out they can vote themselves money, historically speaking it's game over for any republic. We can tweak the law to make it fair (ie if you lose a job, are young and just starting out, on welfare but you HAVE to work, etc). By the way, "job lock" notwithstanding ...gazing at your navel or writing that poem you've always wanted does not count ...unless you can sell it and then pay tax on it.

This is common sense. It would also make our country pretty much instantly solvent if we did this.

[joerocker]

Your comment about being more in favor of banning religion than pot is ... well amazing, to put it simply. It provides insight into how you likely lead your life ... ok with me because, as is the contemporary culture mandates ... who is to judge? But, one can still make inferences and my guess is you would probably like a "religion" of some type that celebrates secular humanism or something?

Let me ask about the gateway question differently ... do you know anyone who got into heavy cocaine or heroin usage who did not start out with pot?

Why is it "amazing" that someone might think religion worse than a plant? Do you have any idea how many deaths are attributed to religion over the span of human history? How many deaths are DIRECTLY related to this plant we're discussing?

I lead my life how "I" think it should be lived. Not how someone else tells me I should live it. How do you live yours? As directed by others? Always doing as others tell you to do? Is that freedom? Not in my book.

Who IS to judge? One could judge we're both good people. Another could judge you are superior, another, that I am. Under Islam, we're both heathens not deserving anything. No favor from God. My problem with religion is, it judges. Many of our archaic laws are religious based.

Why would you think we all need some kind of religion? That's what I find amazing, that some people think we all need a religion.

To answer your question, differently. ALL people addicted to heroin did NOT "start" with pot. I'm sure not one did. IMO. they ALL started with caffeine, nicotine, or alcohol. Marijuana is "first" (not a gateway) of the illegal drugs because of its popularity and ease of access. Marijuana is no more responsible for a heroin addicts addiction than an ice cream cone or a doughnut causes a person to become addicted to sugar and morbidly obese. Use/eat responsibly! You don't fix idiots behavior by passing laws denying reasonable people of something they desire.

Marijuana prohibition is the same as alcohol prohibition. A fruitless enterprise that is unwinnable, ruins lives, and supports a huge underground network/economy run by ruthless profiteers. Just as with alcohol, people get what they want.

[Golfingnut]

Why is it "amazing" that someone might think religion worse than a plant? Do you have any idea how many deaths are attributed to religion over the span of human history? How many deaths are DIRECTLY related to this plant we're discussing?

I lead my life how "I" think it should be lived. Not how someone else tells me I should live it. How do you live yours? As directed by others? Always doing as others tell you to do? Is that freedom? Not in my book.

Who IS to judge? One could judge we're both good people. Another could judge you are superior, another, that I am. Under Islam, we're both heathens not deserving anything. No favor from God. My problem with religion is, it judges. Many of our archaic laws are religious based.

Why would you think we all need some kind of religion? That's what I find amazing, that some people think we all need a religion.

To answer your question, differently. ALL people addicted to heroin did NOT "start" with pot. I'm sure not one did. IMO. they ALL started with caffeine, nicotine, or alcohol. Marijuana is "first" (not a gateway) of the illegal drugs because of its popularity and ease of access. Marijuana is no more responsible for a heroin addicts addiction than an ice cream cone or a doughnut causes a person to become addicted to sugar and morbidly obese. Use/eat responsibly! You don't fix idiots behavior by passing laws denying reasonable people of something they desire.

Marijuana prohibition is the same as alcohol prohibition. A fruitless enterprise that is unwinnable, ruins lives, and supports a huge underground network/economy run by ruthless profiteers. Just as with alcohol, people get what they want.

:bigbow:

[JB in TV]

Why is it "amazing" that someone might think religion worse than a plant? Do you have any idea how many deaths are attributed to religion over the span of human history? How many deaths are DIRECTLY related to this plant we're discussing?

I lead my life how "I" think it should be lived. Not how someone else tells me I should live it. How do you live yours? As directed by others? Always doing as others tell you to do? Is that freedom? Not in my book.

Who IS to judge? One could judge we're both good people. Another could judge you are superior, another, that I am. Under Islam, we're both heathens not deserving anything. No favor from God. My problem with religion is, it judges. Many of our archaic laws are religious based.

Why would you think we all need some kind of religion? That's what I find amazing, that some people think we all need a religion.

To answer your question, differently. ALL people addicted to heroin did NOT "start" with pot. I'm sure not one did. IMO. they ALL started with caffeine, nicotine, or alcohol. Marijuana is "first" (not a gateway) of the illegal drugs because of its popularity and ease of access. Marijuana is no more responsible for a heroin addicts addiction than an ice cream cone or a doughnut causes a person to become addicted to sugar and morbidly obese. Use/eat responsibly! You don't fix idiots behavior by passing laws denying reasonable people of something they desire.

Marijuana prohibition is the same as alcohol prohibition. A fruitless enterprise that is unwinnable, ruins lives, and supports a huge underground network/economy run by ruthless profiteers. Just as with alcohol, people get what they want.

Very well said. :clap2::clap2::clap2:

[TexaninVA]

Why is it "amazing" that someone might think religion worse than a plant? Do you have any idea how many deaths are attributed to religion over the span of human history? How many deaths are DIRECTLY related to this plant we're discussing?

I lead my life how "I" think it should be lived. Not how someone else tells me I should live it. How do you live yours? As directed by others? Always doing as others tell you to do? Is that freedom? Not in my book.

Who IS to judge? One could judge we're both good people. Another could judge you are superior, another, that I am. Under Islam, we're both heathens not deserving anything. No favor from God. My problem with religion is, it judges. Many of our archaic laws are religious based.

Why would you think we all need some kind of religion? That's what I find amazing, that some people think we all need a religion.

To answer your question, differently. ALL people addicted to heroin did NOT "start" with pot. I'm sure not one did. IMO. they ALL started with caffeine, nicotine, or alcohol. Marijuana is "first" (not a gateway) of the illegal drugs because of its popularity and ease of access. Marijuana is no more responsible for a heroin addicts addiction than an ice cream cone or a doughnut causes a person to become addicted to sugar and morbidly obese. Use/eat responsibly! You don't fix idiots behavior by passing laws denying reasonable people of something they desire.

Marijuana prohibition is the same as alcohol prohibition. A fruitless enterprise that is unwinnable, ruins lives, and supports a huge underground network/economy run by ruthless profiteers. Just as with alcohol, people get what they want.

Amazing because of the distorted view you have of religion. Yes, many have died in religious wars over the years, and Islam remains excessively violent today, but I don’t think anyone can seriously deny that, overall, religion has had a hugely beneficial impact. There would be no civilization without it … pure and simple. You’re able to lead your “march to a different beat” lifestyle (which no one begrudges you btw) because Western Civilization, based on Christianity, has evolved to give you those rights. Think about it please.

As far as someone telling you how to live your life, while it plays well emotionally, it’s a complete straw man. I don’t think anyone has told you what to do lifestyle wise since you were a kid, and you probably rebelled against that like a lot of us did.

“Who is to judge?” becomes “no one can judge anything” in contemporary culture, which means no limits at all over time. We both know that. Even though we will draw the line at different places for different things, we all “judge” constantly …every day, including you. Who we associate with, what we do, etc. You know that as well as anyone is my guess.

I repeat, religion by and large, has given us civilization, warts and all. It also is the only real force that enables rule by law. Historically, human nature can be quite savage and, without the glimmer of an internal conscience instilled by religion...yes judging what is right and wrong … we would be in a Darwinian world. North Korea is a good example of that.

In terms of people starting not with pot but with caffeine, nicotine etc … while a clever argument it’s really disingenuous. You could throw in eating, breathing and sleeping too I imagine. I think most people recognize that, for pretty much all heroin or cocaine addicts, pot was indeed the gateway. And I do think drug use is a crutch … for various reasons.

I think legalizing pot will screw up more lives over time than we currently recognize, but we clearly differ in our opinions about that, and my view is losing 70-30 in the poll. But, I still think my view will prove correct over time. The biggest losers will be our grandkids IMHO.

[gomoho]

don't think that is possible....and what would be the benefit of doing so on a purely small scale, unoffical poll?

If you had voted, you would know you can't vote more than once.

Actually I would only know that if I attempted to vote a 2nd time, but thank you for that information

[CFrance]

Actually I would only know that if I attempted to vote a 2nd time, but thank you for that information

Not exactly, gomoho. After you vote, the only part of the poll that shows up every time you access that thread is the poll results, not the "vote" part.

[JB in TV]

Actually I would only know that if I attempted to vote a 2nd time, but thank you for that information

Sorry, perhaps you misunderstood my comment. Once you vote, it shows at the top of the thread that you have already voted, with the results to date, and doesn't give you the opportunity to vote again. I wasn't trying to be curt.

[gomoho]

Thank you - didn't notice that on the medical marijuana post I did vote on.

[JB in TV]

gomoho, you are welcome. :coolsmiley: It is easy to miss as we don't have alot of polls on this forum.

[joerocker]

Amazing because of the distorted view you have of religion. Yes, many have died in religious wars over the years, and Islam remains excessively violent today, but I don’t think anyone can seriously deny that, overall, religion has had a hugely beneficial impact. There would be no civilization without it … pure and simple. You’re able to lead your “march to a different beat” lifestyle (which no one begrudges you btw) because Western Civilization, based on Christianity, has evolved to give you those rights. Think about it please.

As far as someone telling you how to live your life, while it plays well emotionally, it’s a complete straw man. I don’t think anyone has told you what to do lifestyle wise since you were a kid, and you probably rebelled against that like a lot of us did.

“Who is to judge?” becomes “no one can judge anything” in contemporary culture, which means no limits at all over time. We both know that. Even though we will draw the line at different places for different things, we all “judge” constantly …every day, including you. Who we associate with, what we do, etc. You know that as well as anyone is my guess.

I repeat, religion by and large, has given us civilization, warts and all. It also is the only real force that enables rule by law. Historically, human nature can be quite savage and, without the glimmer of an internal conscience instilled by religion...yes judging what is right and wrong … we would be in a Darwinian world. North Korea is a good example of that.

In terms of people starting not with pot but with caffeine, nicotine etc … while a clever argument it’s really disingenuous. You could throw in eating, breathing and sleeping too I imagine. I think most people recognize that, for pretty much all heroin or cocaine addicts, pot was indeed the gateway. And I do think drug use is a crutch … for various reasons.

I think legalizing pot will screw up more lives over time than we currently recognize, but we clearly differ in our opinions about that, and my view is losing 70-30 in the poll. But, I still think my view will prove correct over time. The biggest losers will be our grandkids IMHO.

MY view of religion is distorted? There would be NO civilization without religion? Christianity GAVE me rights to freedom? I wonder who's view is distorted... A religion shouldn't "evolve", if it does, it's a false religion. If God really did dictate what he wants...then who is the one changing it to "evolve"? There are thousands of different "views" of what Christianity should be. Are you SURE you chose the right one? Positively?

How can one rebel against nothing? You tell me there were no restrictions and then say I didn't heed the restrictions...which is it? And I may add...are you serious when you say there are no restrictions on my lifestyle? Then why are we discussing something that IS restricting my personal lifestyle choice?

We should judge for ourselves, WE decide what we will and won't do. Don't you agree that is a better system than someone arbitrarily deciding for you? Do you enjoy being told, like a child, what you can and can't do? Slaves are told what to do. Free men decide when/if they will do something.

What is the "force" religion uses? Fear of eternal punishment? Actual physical force? The natives that were here first will have different ideas about your religion. Non-distorted ideas.

Religion is the ONLY way to get people to live peacefully? Really? You have no conscience without religion? I have a conscience, I'm not religious.

You cite North Korea as an example of what is wrong in the world. When was your trip? After all, to cite it as an example, you must have personal experience. Or, as I imagine, it's more just listening to propaganda that others have told you? Ive seen pictures of NK, it's VERY clean. The people looked like they were having a good time, smiling, laughing. They seemed well fed. Contrary to what we are told about the place. One picture was a nighttime satellite shot showing how dark NK is at night. If you ask me, they're happier at home sleeping than the shift workers here up all night toiling away. Things are seldom what you're told they are. Lies are everywhere.

Now you're getting it...correlation does NOT mean causation...chew on that a bit. Eating, drinking, ARE done by addicts, but it didn't CAUSE their addiction any more than marijuana did. Drug use, along with religion, are ALL crutches.

People said the same about alcohol legalization. The world was going to go down the toilet after legalization. It didn't. The same will happen this time. There may be a brief upswing because of the "newness" of being able to purchase it legally. But as with alcohol, that will wane and level out.

The number one scare tactic...it will harm the children. Watch your kids, raise them YOURSELF and don't dump them into daycare, and you'll have some control over them. But an individual will do what that individual will do irregardless of your teachings.

People are not cattle to be herded. They're individuals who deserve freedom to make their own choices. And of course live with those choices. But we'd rather bail everyone out and reduce their freedoms instead. We'd rather limit freedoms and tell everyone what they can/can't have or do.

Not trying to do anything here but defend my position, nothing personal.

[gomoho]

And with freedom and the choices you make come consequences - as long as you are willing to accept them and nobody beside yourself gets hurt in the process go for it.

[Barefoot]

Why is it "amazing" that someone might think religion worse than a plant? Do you have any idea how many deaths are attributed to religion over the span of human history? How many deaths are DIRECTLY related to this plant we're discussing?

Why would you think we all need some kind of religion? That's what I find amazing, that some people think we all need a religion.

To answer your question, differently. ALL people addicted to heroin did NOT "start" with pot. I'm sure not one did. IMO. they ALL started with caffeine, nicotine, or alcohol. Marijuana is "first" (not a gateway) of the illegal drugs because of its popularity and ease of access. Marijuana is no more responsible for a heroin addicts addiction than an ice cream cone or a doughnut causes a person to become addicted to sugar and morbidly obese. Use/eat responsibly! You don't fix idiots behavior by passing laws denying reasonable people of something they desire.

Marijuana prohibition is the same as alcohol prohibition. A fruitless enterprise that is unwinnable, ruins lives, and supports a huge underground network/economy run by ruthless profiteers. Just as with alcohol, people get what they want.

Go to the head of the class! :ho:

[graciegirl]

My response to you was not that I thought you needed religion JoeRocker. just that some, MANY find it a comfort. No one I know or have known in my life has used religion to kill others.


As I have said, my faith in God is missing at times, but others find their faith to be a comfort. I have never said anything scathing about pot users, just wonder how so many law abiding citizens obtain it.


I have enough problems with getting through life without ILLEGAL mind altering drugs.

[joerocker]

My response to you was not that I thought you needed religion JoeRocker. just that some, MANY find it a comfort. No one I know or have known in my life has used religion to kill others.


As I have said, my faith in God is missing at times, but others find their faith to be a comfort. I have never said anything scathing about pot users, just wonder how so many law abiding citizens obtain it.


I have enough problems with getting through life without mind altering drugs.

And my point was that people don't "need" religion. People find comfort in all kinds of things. Their spouse, their children, their dog, a round of golf, a drink, and yes, even a few puffs of marijuana.

What I don't like is people who think THEY have all the answers when they don't. If you've never tried/experienced something, you can't possibly have an opinion. You're a victim of hearsay. You're parroting someone else's opinion.

Perhaps we're told NOT to do the things that bring us the most happiness. Something to think about. Governments want you dependent and afraid so we have a perceived need for them and their control over us.

People are still killing in the name of their religion. You may not know them personally, but it's happening.

Perhaps your moments of "missing faith" are really your moments of clarity? Why is religion accepted as comforting and yet other equally comforting things are taboo?

How did otherwise "law abiding" people get alcohol during prohibition? Because they wanted it, there was a demand, others provided that which was in demand. It's how it works. Demands are met.

That is your individual case. You've found "your thing" that helps you. Why not let others find "their thing" that helps them? Caffeine IS mind altering, if you drink coffee, tea, sodas, you're ingesting mind altering drugs. Smokers are ingesting mind altering nicotine. If you drink alcohol, your ingesting a mind altering drug. If you do an activity that you really enjoy, your body is making mind altering drugs that make you feel good. Runners high is real.

Using marijuana is not the big deal that we've been told it is. It's a case of "thou protests too much". It's made into much more of an issue than it should be. It's like fighting over beer when the real problem is hard alcohol. Marijuana is to "drugs" as beer is to hard alcohol. Yes, you can have "too much" but the real problems come from the "hard drugs". Most beer drinkers don't graduate to hard alcohol and they don't have the same problems that chronic hard alcohol drinkers have. Most marijuana users don't graduate to hard drugs and don't have the same problems that hard drug users have. Most people CAN self regulate themselves and use it responsibly.

I'm convinced it's the drug and alcohol manufacturers who are most against legalization because it will surely cut into their profits.

[TheVillageChicken]

And my point was that people don't "need" religion. People find comfort in all kinds of things. Their spouse, their children, their dog, a round of golf, a drink, and yes, even a few puffs of marijuana.

What I don't like is people who think THEY have all the answers when they don't. If you've never tried/experienced something, you can't possibly have an opinion. You're a victim of hearsay. You're parroting someone else's opinion.

Perhaps we're told NOT to do the things that bring us the most happiness. Something to think about. Governments want you dependent and afraid so we have a perceived need for them and their control over us.

People are still killing in the name of their religion. You may not know them personally, but it's happening.

Perhaps your moments of "missing faith" are really your moments of clarity? Why is religion accepted as comforting and yet other equally comforting things are taboo?

How did otherwise "law abiding" people get alcohol during prohibition? Because they wanted it, there was a demand, others provided that which was in demand. It's how it works. Demands are met.

That is your individual case. You've found "your thing" that helps you. Why not let others find "their thing" that helps them? Caffeine IS mind altering, if you drink coffee, tea, sodas, you're ingesting mind altering drugs. Smokers are ingesting mind altering nicotine. If you drink alcohol, your ingesting a mind altering drug. If you do an activity that you really enjoy, your body is making mind altering drugs that make you feel good. Runners high is real.

Using marijuana is not the big deal that we've been told it is. It's a case of "thou protests too much". It's made into much more of an issue than it should be. It's like fighting over beer when the real problem is hard alcohol. Marijuana is to "drugs" as beer is to hard alcohol. Yes, you can have "too much" but the real problems come from the "hard drugs". Most beer drinkers don't graduate to hard alcohol and they don't have the same problems that chronic hard alcohol drinkers have. Most marijuana users don't graduate to hard drugs and don't have the same problems that hard drug users have. Most people CAN self regulate themselves and use it responsibly.

I'm convinced it's the drug and alcohol manufacturers who are most against legalization because it will surely cut into their profits.


Irony.

[Golfingnut]

And my point was that people don't "need" religion. People find comfort in all kinds of things. Their spouse, their children, their dog, a round of golf, a drink, and yes, even a few puffs of marijuana.

What I don't like is people who think THEY have all the answers when they don't. If you've never tried/experienced something, you can't possibly have an opinion. You're a victim of hearsay. You're parroting someone else's opinion.

Perhaps we're told NOT to do the things that bring us the most happiness. Something to think about. Governments want you dependent and afraid so we have a perceived need for them and their control over us.

People are still killing in the name of their religion. You may not know them personally, but it's happening.

Perhaps your moments of "missing faith" are really your moments of clarity? Why is religion accepted as comforting and yet other equally comforting things are taboo?

How did otherwise "law abiding" people get alcohol during prohibition? Because they wanted it, there was a demand, others provided that which was in demand. It's how it works. Demands are met.

That is your individual case. You've found "your thing" that helps you. Why not let others find "their thing" that helps them? Caffeine IS mind altering, if you drink coffee, tea, sodas, you're ingesting mind altering drugs. Smokers are ingesting mind altering nicotine. If you drink alcohol, your ingesting a mind altering drug. If you do an activity that you really enjoy, your body is making mind altering drugs that make you feel good. Runners high is real.

Using marijuana is not the big deal that we've been told it is. It's a case of "thou protests too much". It's made into much more of an issue than it should be. It's like fighting over beer when the real problem is hard alcohol. Marijuana is to "drugs" as beer is to hard alcohol. Yes, you can have "too much" but the real problems come from the "hard drugs". Most beer drinkers don't graduate to hard alcohol and they don't have the same problems that chronic hard alcohol drinkers have. Most marijuana users don't graduate to hard drugs and don't have the same problems that hard drug users have. Most people CAN self regulate themselves and use it responsibly.

I'm convinced it's the drug and alcohol manufacturers who are most against legalization because it will surely cut into their profits.
:crap2:

Great post

[PennBF]

May as well give it up. If someone wants to avoid the wonders of life and escape into a drug induced state they will do it regardless of what anyone says. If someone does not care the impact of the drug availability on the children and want to live for today regardless as to how it may hurt children they will still do it regardless of the harm to family and children. If someone has no respect for the harm that will come to families from a drug induced state they will do it regardless of what impact it has on society/family. When we say drugs it includes Pot, Coke, Heroin, Booze, etc.etc. All are just a way of altering reality in the mind and avoiding the joys of life. They must decide for themselves and nothing anyone can say will convince them of the harm to themselves and all around them. It is a terrible way to live but it remains their choice.:jester:

[graciegirl]

The use of marijuana is illegal. (AT THIS TIME AND WHERE WE LIVE)


Most of us have children and grandchildren who we have tried to teach to abide by the law.


Alcohol is legal. Couldn't you all just wait and drink until pot is legal?


Gracie who feels today like a very old person.

[joerocker]

May as well give it up. If someone wants to avoid the wonders of life and escape into a drug induced state they will do it regardless of what anyone says. If someone does not care the impact of the drug availability on the children and want to live for today regardless as to how it may hurt children they will still do it regardless of the harm to family and children. If someone has no respect for the harm that will come to families from a drug induced state they will do it regardless of what impact it has on society/family. When we say drugs it includes Pot, Coke, Heroin, Booze, etc.etc. All are just a way of altering reality in the mind and avoiding the joys of life. They must decide for themselves and nothing anyone can say will convince them of the harm to themselves and all around them. It is a terrible way to live but it remains their choice.:jester:

That is so twisted... Most people enjoy life a little more with a little something. Some beer, wine, whatever. People having a few drinks at a party, when going out dancing, have a better time than those who are "teetotalers". It may seem "a terrible way to live" in your opinion. But that's all it is, your opinion.

Stop with the children meme. Please. All our children are not drunks since alcohol was re-leagalized. They're not all going to become hooked on heroin because marijuana is becoming legalized.

The same could be said for those who "find religion", IMO, they are in a delusional state, absent from reality. Yet nobody seems to mind.

Maybe you should try a drink some time. Or are you an alcoholic? Then I agree YOU should abstain from anything you could become addicted to. Let the rest of us enjoy ourselves. Responsibly.

[joerocker]

The use of marijuana is illegal. (AT THIS TIME AND WHERE WE LIVE)


Most of us have children and grandchildren who we have tried to teach to abide by the law.


Alcohol is legal. Couldn't you all just wait and drink until pot is legal?


Gracie who feels today like a very old person.

That's what we're trying to change...an unjust law prohibiting something that people want.

That is a problem too. Following laws, just because they're laws. No matter how draconian they are. You're inadvertently teaching them to be good little drones, good little followers. Is that what you want them to be? Or would you rather they question and decide for themselves what is right/good for them.

Alcohol was illegal. It was grass roots efforts like what is happening now with marijuana that changed the law. Just because it's a law, doesn't mean it's a good or just law.

Nothing personal Gracie, as always, I'm just trying to give others another way to look at things. I don't have all the answers either. Far from it.

[billethkid]

what we need is a little more tolerance of others opinions, positions, needs, wants, beliefs, etc. without the continual debating when said positions are different than another may believe.

The only person who knows what they "need" is that person...right, wrong or indifferent. For someone else to try to dispel what another may "need" is not respecting the others position....like it or not.

To me that is why so many of these discussions turn into what I call the merry go round!!

[TexaninVA]

...

You cite North Korea as an example of what is wrong in the world. When was your trip? After all, to cite it as an example, you must have personal experience. Or, as I imagine, it's more just listening to propaganda that others have told you? Ive seen pictures of NK, it's VERY clean. The people looked like they were having a good time, smiling, laughing. They seemed well fed. Contrary to what we are told about the place. One picture was a nighttime satellite shot showing how dark NK is at night. If you ask me, they're happier at home sleeping than the shift workers here up all night toiling away. Things are seldom what you're told they are. Lies are everywhere.....

Joe, I was reading your otherwise reasonable arguments / opinions with interest until I saw the above quote. In addition to your views on religion being "amazing," your views on probably the most tyrannical regime in the world where the Stalinist government crushes people under their boot are astounding!!!

You truly, genuinely and without a doubt, have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about regarding North Korea ... zero. By making these patently absurd comments about North Korea, your credibility has vaporized. Maybe you and Dennis Rodman should team up?

[TexaninVA]

May as well give it up. If someone wants to avoid the wonders of life and escape into a drug induced state they will do it regardless of what anyone says. If someone does not care the impact of the drug availability on the children and want to live for today regardless as to how it may hurt children they will still do it regardless of the harm to family and children. If someone has no respect for the harm that will come to families from a drug induced state they will do it regardless of what impact it has on society/family. When we say drugs it includes Pot, Coke, Heroin, Booze, etc.etc. All are just a way of altering reality in the mind and avoiding the joys of life. They must decide for themselves and nothing anyone can say will convince them of the harm to themselves and all around them. It is a terrible way to live but it remains their choice.:jester:

Well put. Again, the worst part of legalization will be on future generations and our grandkids ... who will just inherit the world left to them by adults who placed their needs /pleasures first. That's actually consistent I suppose with our generation spending our kids money, going into $17T debt etc.

[eweissenbach]

what we need is a little more tolerance of others opinions, positions, needs, wants, beliefs, etc. Without the continual debating when said positions are different than another may believe.

The only person who knows what they "need" is that person...right, wrong or indifferent. For someone else to try to dispel what another may "need" is not respecting the others position....like it or not.

To me that is why so many of these discussions turn into what i call the merry go round!!

bravo!

[Golfingnut]

what we need is a little more tolerance of others opinions, positions, needs, wants, beliefs, etc. without the continual debating when said positions are different than another may believe.

The only person who knows what they "need" is that person...right, wrong or indifferent. For someone else to try to dispel what another may "need" is not respecting the others position....like it or not.

To me that is why so many of these discussions turn into what I call the merry go round!!

Who wrote this post?

[graciegirl]

//???

[Golfingnut]

//???

Are you always confused?

[Halle]

Why is it "amazing" that someone might think religion worse than a plant? Do you have any idea how many deaths are attributed to religion over the span of human history? How many deaths are DIRECTLY related to this plant we're discussing?

I lead my life how "I" think it should be lived. Not how someone else tells me I should live it. How do you live yours? As directed by others? Always doing as others tell you to do? Is that freedom? Not in my book.

Who IS to judge? One could judge we're both good people. Another could judge you are superior, another, that I am. Under Islam, we're both heathens not deserving anything. No favor from God. My problem with religion is, it judges. Many of our archaic laws are religious based.

Why would you think we all need some kind of religion? That's what I find amazing, that some people think we all need a religion.

To answer your question, differently. ALL people addicted to heroin did NOT "start" with pot. I'm sure not one did. IMO. they ALL started with caffeine, nicotine, or alcohol. Marijuana is "first" (not a gateway) of the illegal drugs because of its popularity and ease of access. Marijuana is no more responsible for a heroin addicts addiction than an ice cream cone or a doughnut causes a person to become addicted to sugar and morbidly obese. Use/eat responsibly! You don't fix idiots behavior by passing laws denying reasonable people of something they desire.

Marijuana prohibition is the same as alcohol prohibition. A fruitless enterprise that is unwinnable, ruins lives, and supports a huge underground network/economy run by ruthless profiteers. Just as with alcohol, people get what they want.

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[Golfingnut]

//???

I don't understand this post.

[CFrance]

what we need is a little more tolerance of others opinions, positions, needs, wants, beliefs, etc. without the continual debating when said positions are different than another may believe.

The only person who knows what they "need" is that person...right, wrong or indifferent. For someone else to try to dispel what another may "need" is not respecting the others position....like it or not.

To me that is why so many of these discussions turn into what I call the merry go round!!

Who wrote this post?

Umm... :shrug:

[Golfingnut]

//???

..??///@&$

[eweissenbach]

Seems to me that the many of the same people who want zero controls on guns want maximum control on marijuana.

[Golfingnut]

Seems to me that the many of the same people who want zero controls on guns want maximum control on marijuana.

Absolutely no doubt. I think it is a case if I will tolerate anything I firmly agree with, but nothing else.

[billethkid]

Who wrote this post?

:wave::lipsrsealed:

[Golfingnut]

:wave::lipsrsealed:

:a20:

[kittygilchrist]

Seems to me that the many of the same people who want zero controls on guns want maximum control on marijuana.

Back in college, statistics and scientific data mattered. I'm glad we've gotten to a time where all we need is opinions. I'd guess I'm an outlier on the correlation alleged to exist.
:girlneener:

[Golfingnut]

Looking at the poll numbers gives me reason to think TV is in better shape than I would have thought. Yea Villagers.

[Russ_Boston]

Most beer drinkers don't graduate to hard alcohol and they don't have the same problems that chronic hard alcohol drinkers have.


You could also say that most hard liquor drinkers don't graduate to alcoholism. But I certainly don't think you mean to intend that people who drink only beer will never have an issue with it. That is simply NOT true. Just be a nurse for a few days and you'll know that answer.


But I can tell you that I have never met a person who does POT only that has any issues from it. At least not from a medical standpoint like a life long beer drinker.

[joerocker]

Joe, I was reading your otherwise reasonable arguments / opinions with interest until I saw the above quote. In addition to your views on religion being "amazing," your views on probably the most tyrannical regime in the world where the Stalinist government crushes people under their boot are astounding!!!

You truly, genuinely and without a doubt, have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about regarding North Korea ... zero. By making these patently absurd comments about North Korea, your credibility has vaporized. Maybe you and Dennis Rodman should team up?

When was your visit? That's all you have to answer.

Otherwise, like most here, you're parroting what someone else said. You have NO first hand experience and you're relying on what you've read or heard. So, in reality, you have a STRONG opinion about a place you've never been to or seen. Is that stereotyping? (sorry, wrong thread)

This is the same as your "facts" about marijuana. ALL you know is what you've read or heard. No firsthand experience, yet plenty of opinion. Whom doesn't know what they're talking about?

Using NK as my example for general ignorance was perfect. Thank you for proving the point. Never been there but know ALL about it?

Amazing.

I said we don't know anything about NK. But apparently, you do. Tell us again about your trip.

The most tyrannical regimes are found in Africa.

Don't be so easily lead astray.

You could also say that most hard liquor drinkers don't graduate to alcoholism. But I certainly don't think you mean to intend that people who drink only beer will never have an issue with it. That is simply NOT true. Just be a nurse for a few days and you'll know that answer.


But I can tell you that I have never met a person who does POT only that has any issues from it. At least not from a medical standpoint like a life long beer drinker.

My posts are long enough without going into every detail in every example. Of course I meant "rational" beer drinkers. People who enjoy a few beers to relax. Not people who put down cases at a time. I'm constantly saying that rational, self regulating people should be free to choose.

Thank you for saying that a "pot user" isn't a problem. Medically at least.

[Chi-Town]

OK. A couple of questions about poster's names in this thread.

Billethkid, is that a play on Billy the Kid?

Texaninva, are you from Texas and now in Virginia Trace?

Just curious. Of course, Chi-Town is pretty obvious.

Thanks.

[graciegirl]

OK. A couple of questions about poster's names in this thread.

Billethkid, is that a play on Billy the Kid?

Texaninva, are you from Texas and now in Virginia Trace?

Just curious. Of course, Chi-Town is pretty obvious.

Thanks.

You are Chinese? ;)

[CFrance]

You are Chinese? ;)
Gracie, Gracie, Gracie...:ohdear:

[gomoho]

I have been there done that, seen and paid for the ravages of marijuana with my children, so I come from a position of experience - maybe tainted by that experience; however I just cannot rationalize how legalizing marijuana will doing anything positive for our country. I don't agree with the ridiculous penalties attached to a conviction involving weed, but just cannot wrap my arms around legalization cause I have seen first hand the damage it does. And please don't equate it to alcohol cause there is an awful lot of damage there as well, but as I said earlier wine or a cocktail doesn't have to be enjoyed just to get a buzz - can enhance your meal. What do you pair marijuana with - ho ho's and doritos? It's only purpose is too get f_ _ _ ed up.

[joerocker]

I have been there done that, seen and paid for the ravages of marijuana with my children, so I come from a position of experience - maybe tainted by that experience; however I just cannot rationalize how legalizing marijuana will doing anything positive for our country. I don't agree with the ridiculous penalties attached to a conviction involving weed, but just cannot wrap my arms around legalization cause I have seen first hand the damage it does. And please don't equate it to alcohol cause there is an awful lot of damage there as well, but as I said earlier wine or a cocktail doesn't have to be enjoyed just to get a buzz - can enhance your meal. What do you pair marijuana with - ho ho's and doritos? It's only purpose is too get f_ _ _ ed up.

Details please...marijuana alone "ravaged" your children? In what way?

The positive thing? It brings back freedom of the individual to choose. A right you used to have in MANY aspects of your life.

After 2 drinks, most people are legally "at the limit", You are borderline too intoxicated to drive your car. You just don't realize it with alcohol.

Wine "enhances your meal"? Of course it does...enjoy the buzz.

I think you're under the false impression that marijuana is like heroin or drinking a 5th of scotch. A few puffs and you're wrecked, sprawled out on the couch, unable to utter a coherent sentence. Nothing, nothing could be farther from the truth. A few puffs is that same mellow feeling you get from your cocktail, or two. That relaxation you feel with your drink, it's chemical. You're f_ _ _ ed up on alcohol.

Denial isn't only a river in Egypt.

[graciegirl]

The "other" Don.:wine:

[Russ_Boston]

but as I said earlier wine or a cocktail doesn't have to be enjoyed just to get a buzz - can enhance your meal. What do you pair marijuana with - ho ho's and doritos? It's only purpose is too get f_ _ _ ed up.


Please!


if there was NEVER a buzz in wine or booze there would be no such thing as 'pairing'. Wine was not created to 'pair' with anything except a buzz. That is a much, much later inventive way for the booze industry to sell the product. Don't think the early humans were saying "what can we invent that would pair well with this lamb?"


Many people do have just one joint to 'mellow'. And maybe a nice Hostess cupcake:)


From the web:


The altered consciousness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunkeness) produced by wine has been considered religious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) since its origin


Of course, ancient wines weren't just for recreational quaffing; they were also used as medicinal mixtures (http://www.livescience.com/8341-wine-good.html), (Hmmm, that sounds familiar doesn't it?)


Want more just search origins of wine!

[graciegirl]

I suppose someone is going to tell me that there isn't a Santa Claus either.


I am so naïve.

[Polar Bear]

...Wine "enhances your meal"? Of course it does...enjoy the buzz...

Since you don't think even one small glass of wine "enhances a meal", then I guess all those people who do are simply wrong. Yeah...that's it.

[gamby]

Pot taxes in one month for Colorado: $2 million


Colorado Launches Campaign to Curb Stoned Driving

DENVER — Colorado is spending $1 million on television ads making fun of marijuana users who space out during everyday tasks — an effort to stop stoned driving.

The Colorado Department of Transportation unveiled the "Drive High, Get a DUI" campaign Thursday, the state's first effort since marijuana was legalized in 2012 to remind drivers that pot should be treated like alcohol and not used before driving.

[coolkayaker1]

I have never smoked a joint and never would, however I would support legalization.
Instead of making smugglers, street hustlers, and Central and South American cartels rich, why not have it grown and controlled by Americans as it is in Colorado?
Instead of paying for the incarceration of tens of thousands of users and sellers, and spending millions on eradication and police work why not save that tax money and add the tax money on maijuana?
I think most people who want to smoke it already do, it seems to be easily accessable.
Seems to me the quality would likely improve and the controls over it would insure better and safer product.

As a physician, we could say the same about over 100 prescription only drugs, medically proven to be equally as recreationally enjoyable with low addition potential and less side effects than pot (these are pills, not smoked).

Should we legalize those, too? Make them OTC and tax them?

I point out eweissenbach's post above not to pick him out, but because he so eloquently describes the arguments for legalization. I hope to have made one think about the negative repercussions of legalization...and where to draw the line.

And, The fact that alcohol is a drug and already legal is not a convincing argument for legalizing other mind-altering substances.

The fact that we cannot control pot sales and distribution with current laws and forces is not a convincing argument for legalizing a mind-altering substance. (It is an argument for stricter laws, including potentially capital punishment for the worst offending distributors).

Courts and prisons will not be less burdened with legalization...conversely, they will be more burdened as pot does impede driving, machine operating skills, work occupational safety, etc. at least as much as alcohol.

Bottom line: slippery slope of legalizing mind-altering, impairing substances is "bad" societal medicine.

[Polar Bear]

...Bottom line: slippery slope of legalizing mind-altering, impairing substances is "bad" societal medicine.

That and the rest of cool's post makes sense to me.

[JourneyOfLife]

Seems to me that the many of the same people who want zero controls on guns want maximum control on marijuana.


That is a keen observation. What you point out is a stark contrast in people's perception of society.

A broader POV, looking at the forest instead of the trees.

I find it very peculiar too. I will skip the exercise of expounding on what gun are designed to do vs marijuana use.

They are different issues, but it sure casts a light on the differences in peoples perception of their world and others in it.

IMO, We are all prone to being manipulated by rhetoric and hyperbole, present or past... and it can cause deep seated biases that last a lifetime.

[TexaninVA]

When was your visit? That's all you have to answer.

Otherwise, like most here, you're parroting what someone else said. You have NO first hand experience and you're relying on what you've read or heard. So, in reality, you have a STRONG opinion about a place you've never been to or seen. Is that stereotyping? (sorry, wrong thread)

Using NK as my example for general ignorance was perfect. Thank you for proving the point. Never been there but know ALL about it?

I said we don't know anything about NK. But apparently, you do. Tell us again about your trip.



Joe … I repeat with emphasis -- you have absolutely no idea, ie zero, of what you’re talking about regarding North Korea. You’re either being willfully provocative or astoundingly naïve, or are possibly high when you write. Those are the only explanations I can conjure up.

For the record here is what you said lest it be unclear:
“…I’ve seen pictures of NK, it's VERY clean. The people looked like they were having a good time, smiling, laughing. They seemed well fed. Contrary to what we are told about the place. One picture was a nighttime satellite shot showing how dark NK is at night. If you ask me, they're happier at home sleeping than the shift workers here up all night toiling away. Things are seldom what you're told they are. Lies are everywhere.”

Of course I have not travelled to North Korea. Who would even want to visit that hellhole? But, I do have many years past experience where I had the opportunity to work with experts on the country, and who are the most knowledgeable in government and industry on the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. Actually, it’s truly idiotic (no offense), and a waste of TOTV air time to even discuss whether North Korea is a Stalinist totalitarian regime. Trust me, it’s a fact …not an opinion, similar to me informing you the earth is round not flat. DPRK is a throwback in time with hundreds of thousands in forced labor camps, individuality non-existent and life is very, very cheap. I can cite volumes of open source information but I’ll leave that to others to look up if interested. I have no interest in persuading you, but I could simply not let such an egregiously naïve statement go unanswered or unchallenged on TOTV.

You also seem to be an anti-establishment guy, don’t trust authority, and skeptical of government in general, all of which is fine by the way. However, two questions for you now.

1. Given that Dear Leader Kim Jong Un was just reelected with 100% of the vote, and with a 100% voter turnout, does that strike you in any way as peculiar or generate any skepticism on your part? Do you think it might actually be ... a lie of sorts?

2. Do you think you would be happier living in North Korea? (your comments imply you might … so just asking)

[gomoho]

Details please...marijuana alone "ravaged" your children? In what way?

Denial isn't only a river in Egypt.

That response is cruel and extremely disrespectful - do you think I would make something like that up for the sake of argument? Until you have walked in my shoes don't even presume you know what you are talking about.

[TexaninVA]

As a physician, we could say the same about over 100 prescription only drugs, medically proven to be equally as recreationally enjoyable with low addition potential and less side effects than pot (these are pills, not smoked).

Should we legalize those, too? Make them OTC and tax them?

I point out eweissenbach's post above not to pick him out, but because he so eloquently describes the arguments for legalization. I hope to have made one think about the negative repercussions of legalization...and where to draw the line.

And, The fact that alcohol is a drug and already legal is not a convincing argument for legalizing other mind-altering substances.

The fact that we cannot control pot sales and distribution with current laws and forces is not a convincing argument for legalizing a mind-altering substance. (It is an argument for stricter laws, including potentially capital punishment for the worst offending distributors).

Courts and prisons will not be less burdened with legalization...conversely, they will be more burdened as pot does impede driving, machine operating skills, work occupational safety, etc. at least as much as alcohol.

Bottom line: slippery slope of legalizing mind-altering, impairing substances is "bad" societal medicine.

Excellent post and well said.

[TOTV Team]

Keep comments directed at the topic and not at users. Discuss the issues and avoid directing at each other so the thread doesn't have to be closed. Thanks in advance.

[billethkid]

Keep comments directed at the topic and not at users. Discuss the issues and avoid directing at each other so the thread doesn't have to be closed. Thanks in advance.

bears repeating for those who don't hear as well......:D

[Barefoot]

You’re either being willfully provocative or astoundingly naïve, or are possibly high when you write.

There is no need to insult people because you don't agree with their opinions.

[PennBF]

Does anyone really think their comments will change the mind and the actions of a Marijuana user. Let me help with the answer. NO !. The user must make the decision for themselves. Until they do they will (a) use and (b) be in favor of allowing others to use. To think otherwise is not to understand drugs and their effect on the mind and the need to use. As hard as it is to understand the only one that can alter the user's habits and needs is THE USER. :wave:

[JourneyOfLife]

All of those opposed to changing the law, if it becomes legal... you should have the opportunity to try it.



Those who try it might have a miraculously change of opinion.



[Cheesy sinister laugh :icon_twisted:] MOOHOOO HEE HEE HAW HAW HAW HAWWWWWWWWWWWWW!


:loco: ;) Just joking

[janmcn]

All of those opposed to changing the law, if it becomes legal... you should have the opportunity to try it.



Those who try it might have a miraculously change of opinion.



[Cheesy sinister laugh :icon_twisted:] MOOHOOO HEE HEE HAW HAW HAW HAWWWWWWWWWWWWW!


:loco: ;) Just joking


After 19 pages of postings, it is worth mentioning (IMO) that there is no movement towards legalizing marijuana in Florida, except for medical marijuana which will be on the ballot in November 2014. To use it recreationally legally, one must travel to Colorado or Washington, the only two states allowing it at this time.

To change the law in Florida would require close to one million signatures on a petition and someone with very deep pockets to fund the initiative, or action by the Florida legislature.

[graciegirl]

Even those who say they haven't tried it and are not crazy about it becoming legal, probably have tried it.


Most of us have had sex too.

[JourneyOfLife]

After 19 pages of postings, it is worth mentioning (IMO) that there is no movement towards legalizing marijuana in Florida, except for medical marijuana which will be on the ballot in November 2014. To use it recreationally legally, one must travel to Colorado or Washington, the only two states allowing it at this time.

To change the law in Florida would require close to one million signatures on a petition and someone with very deep pockets to fund the initiative, or action by the Florida legislature.

Uhhh... maybe this will help you understand the meaning of joking.


1. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.
2. A mischievous trick; a prank.
3. An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.

joking - definition of joking by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/joking)

[coalminer]

Oh course it should be legal how much longer are we going to waste law enforcement resources trying to control a drug that is less harmful than nicotine or alcohol?

[TexaninVA]

There is no need to insult people because you don't agree with their opinions.

Barefoot ...you're right, I should have toned down my language. Plus I will heed Admin's earlier admonitions to avoid directing at each other.

By way of background, here's what caused me to momentarily lose my temper ... ie JoeRocker's comments quoted as follows:

“…I’ve seen pictures of NK, it's VERY clean. The people looked like they were having a good time, smiling, laughing. They seemed well fed. Contrary to what we are told about the place. One picture was a nighttime satellite shot showing how dark NK is at night. If you ask me, they're happier at home sleeping than the shift workers here up all night toiling away. Things are seldom what you're told they are. Lies are everywhere.”

[Barefoot]

By way of background, here's what caused me to momentarily lose my temper ... ie JoeRocker's comments quoted as follows:
“…I’ve seen pictures of NK, it's VERY clean. The people looked like they were having a good time, smiling, laughing. They seemed well fed. Contrary to what we are told about the place. One picture was a nighttime satellite shot showing how dark NK is at night. If you ask me, they're happier at home sleeping than the shift workers here up all night toiling away. Things are seldom what you're told they are. Lies are everywhere.”

I understand. I do agree with your thoughts on NK.

[gomoho]

Does anyone really think their comments will change the mind and the actions of a Marijuana user. Let me help with the answer. NO !. The user must make the decision for themselves. Until they do they will (a) use and (b) be in favor of allowing others to use. To think otherwise is not to understand drugs and their effect on the mind and the need to use. As hard as it is to understand the only one that can alter the user's habits and needs is THE USER. :wave:

Thank you - probably the most sensical post yet.

[Chi-Town]

OK. A couple of questions about poster's names in this thread.

Billethkid, is that a play on Billy the Kid?

Texaninva, are you from Texas and now in Virginia Trace?

Just curious. Of course, Chi-Town is pretty obvious.

Thanks.

Since no reply I looked up your profiles. No further need.

[scarecrow1]

If the make recreational Mary Jane legal, I can't wait to see the town squares at night. I think line dancing will go away as nobody will be able to keep their balance, duos will be replaced by Dead Head music etc. the sky is falling and there is a yellow submarine in Lake Sumter !!!!!!!

[billethkid]

everybody who is so hiped up to have it legalized should educate themselves about what else comes with it. In Colorado they are experiencing high incidents of driving while stoned....gee what a surprise.

They are adding to the police forces and giving special training to spot the bobbing and weaving and what ever else.

I suspect it will go the way of cell phone by drivers. Some reports show more killed as a result of cell phones yet not much is done about it ....too many mothers that would be against drunk driving use cell phones therefore.......
The weed smokers will get the same benefit....to use a term loosely.

[JourneyOfLife]

everybody who is so hiped up to have it legalized should educate themselves about what else comes with it. In Colorado they are experiencing high incidents of driving while stoned....gee what a surprise.

They are adding to the police forces and giving special training to spot the bobbing and weaving and what ever else.

I suspect it will go the way of cell phone by drivers. Some reports show more killed as a result of cell phones yet not much is done about it ....too many mothers that would be against drunk driving use cell phones therefore.......
The weed smokers will get the same benefit....to use a term loosely.


Colorado passed a new legislation about driving impaired last year.

Also, according to the new media there are several field administered tests available (e.g., breath, swab). I think the breath one is new.

You can bet there are some companies will capitalize on selling the kits to law enforcement around the country.

[Golfingnut]

Looks like pot has gained biparticen support in florida.

Medical Cannabis Has Republican Support in Florida (http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/medical-cannabis-has-republican-support-in-florida/)

I hope this is right as it looks like a go. I am for it but also accept the pit falls.

[graciegirl]

So. Twice as many folks here are smoking grass than those who aren't, suggested by the poll above.


So, does that mean that when driving a car the weed proponents think they are driving slowwwwwwwly?


Do those who use have a certain time of the day, like a happy hour? Do they throw their roaches down with the butts or use a bobby pin until their nostril hair is singed?


When making brownies is Betty Crocker chocolate chunk preferred over another brand?


Inquiring minds want to know. I feel so unhip.

[Golfingnut]

So. Twice as many folks here are smoking grass than those who aren't, suggested by the poll above.


So, does that mean that when driving a car the weed proponents think they are driving slowwwwwwwly?


Do those who use have a certain time of the day, like a happy hour? Do they throw their roaches down with the butts or use a bobby pin until their nostril hair is singed?


When making brownies is Betty Crocker chocolate chunk preferred over another brand?


Inquiring minds want to know. I feel so unhip.

Not sure I get your meaning. I vote yes, but do not ever smoke eat or otherwise consume any version of marijuana. I like many hope we never need it, but would rather our doctor make than determination rather than a guy named BUBBA.

[billethkid]

Medical availability/use if an acceptable alternative as deemed by a physician and Rx.

Recreational use.....no thanx....does not get my vote.

[Golfingnut]

Medical availability/use if an acceptable alternative as deemed by a physician and Rx.

Recreational use.....no thanx....does not get my vote.

I am satisfied with this view. I don't like to much control, but leave me my bud light and I will never require access to pot.

[DougB]

So. Twice as many folks here are smoking grass than those who aren't, suggested by the poll above.


So, does that mean that when driving a car the weed proponents think they are driving slowwwwwwwly?


Do those who use have a certain time of the day, like a happy hour? Do they throw their roaches down with the butts or use a bobby pin until their nostril hair is singed?


When making brownies is Betty Crocker chocolate chunk preferred over another brand?

Inquiring minds want to know. I feel so unhip.

I believe weed happy hour starts at 4:20. Not that I would know or anything.
:shocked:

[Golfingnut]

So. Twice as many folks here are smoking grass than those who aren't, suggested by the poll above.
not all that voed yes smoke pot

So, does that mean that when driving a car the weed proponents think they are driving slowwwwwwwly?
Depends on the THC % And how many tokes

Do those who use have a certain time of the day, like a happy hour? Do they throw their roaches down with the butts or use a bobby pin until their nostril hair is singed?
most save the roaches and put them in a bong to finish them off

When making brownies is Betty Crocker chocolate chunk preferred over another brand?
sugar cookie doe works as well as any.

Inquiring minds want to know. I feel so unhip.

Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[kittygilchrist]

I believe weed happy hour starts at 4:20. Not that I would know or anything.
:shocked:

Like, man, isn't that like the date of something? My birthday is in April, I'm thinking maybe Cheech was born on the 20th, but I can't remember.

[graciegirl]

Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.



Pretty in the know for a Bud lite fan. And pretty harsh to an info seeker.;)

[Golfingnut]

Pretty in the know for a Bud lite fan. And pretty harsh to an info seeker.;)

Add menthol to your bong to take away the harshness. All you have to do is ask.

[DougB]

Like, man, isn't that like the date of something? My birthday is in April, I'm thinking maybe Cheech was born on the 20th, but I can't remember.

420, 4:20, or 4/20 (pronounced four-twenty) is a code-term used that refers to the consumption of cannabis and by extension, as a way to identify oneself with cannabis subculture or simply cannabis itself. Observances based on the number 420 include smoking cannabis around the time 4:20 p.m. (with some sources also indicating 4:20 a.m. as we do have some early risers in The Villages on any given day), as well as smoking and celebrating cannabis on the date April 20 (4/20).
As to being Cheech's bday, I have no idea.

[Golfingnut]

:beer3::beer3::beer3::beer3::beer3::beer3:420, 4:20, or 4/20 (pronounced four-twenty) is a code-term used primarily in North America that refers to the consumption of cannabis and by extension, as a way to identify oneself with cannabis subculture or simply cannabis itself. Observances based on the number 420 include smoking cannabis around the time 4:20 p.m. (with some sources also indicating 4:20 a.m.), on any given day, as well as smoking and celebrating cannabis on the date April 20 (4/20).
As to being Cheech's bday, I have no idea.

:beer3::beer3::beer3::beer3:
BUD LIGHT FOR LIFE

[mickey100]

Interesting - over 2/3 of responders are in favor.

[graciegirl]

Interesting - over 2/3 of responders are in favor.


Y'all have a nice time now, Heah?

[Polar Bear]

You know...I can't put my finger on it...and I'm gonna really sound like a crotchety, set-in-my-ways old fart even more so than I really am, nevertheless...

I find myself questioning the validity of this poll. I know it's not scientific, but even for this sort of simple show-of-hands, I find it hard to believe that two-thirds of The Villagers favor legalization of recreational marijuana. Medical? Sure. But recreational?!? I just can't believe it.

(Now be nice!) :duck:

[Russ_Boston]

everybody who is so hiped up to have it legalized should educate themselves about what else comes with it. In Colorado they are experiencing high incidents of driving while stoned....gee what a surprise.

They are adding to the police forces and giving special training to spot the bobbing and weaving and what ever else.

I suspect it will go the way of cell phone by drivers. Some reports show more killed as a result of cell phones yet not much is done about it ....too many mothers that would be against drunk driving use cell phones therefore.......
The weed smokers will get the same benefit....to use a term loosely.
Not that I doubt your stats but it is WAY too early (in Colorado) to see any causation studies. Just not enough data yet for a valid theory to be made.

[kittygilchrist]

:read:
Russ, I check to see what you have posted. So few of us actually know what we are talking about...
respectfully,
Kitty

[Golfingnut]

To the 2/3d poll. Having knowledge does not mean user.

[Polar Bear]

To the 2/3d poll. Having knowledge does not mean user.

?

The OP asks if you "support the legalization".

[Golfingnut]

?

The OP asks if you "support the legalization".

?
Are you OK.?

[gomoho]

So we have one poster that is beating this drum like there is no tomorrow, but claims not to smoke. Then we have another poster, that has mysteriously disappeared, also on the band wagon that says you can't know what you are talking about unless you smoke. What's the deal. And for every pro marijuana link you want to provide, if I was so inclined, I could find one against so it really is a mute point. You are either for or against based on life experience and the knowledge you have of the subject. I for one don't see the need to do research to talk myself into believing differently.

[rp001]

I think it is totally wrong for a person to place blame on a substance and not take into account addictive personality traits. To blame any one substance is just a form of rationalization. If one in question didn't get you , something else would, sometimes even with proper psychological care. First hand experience, pot is NOT A GATEWAY drug. Alcohol,salt, sugar, and even over the counter drugs used to self medicate are far worse.

[JB in TV]

I stop by this thread to see what is new preriodically, but have no more to add. I voted, commented, and have no intention of changing anyone's mind.

[Golfingnut]

I am happy to say I am on the right side of this issue.

For First Time, Americans Favor Legalizing Marijuana (http://www.gallup.com/poll/165539/first-time-americans-favor-legalizing-marijuana.aspx)

I don't and won't smoke. Live your life and let others live theirs. It's that simple.

[gomoho]

I don't and won't smoke. Live your life and let others live theirs. It's that simple.

The point you are missing is those opposed believe people choosing to live their lives in this matter could negatively affect them and society. No different then people believe alcohol should be banned or atheists objecting
to open displays of Christian symbols. We all have our opinions on what is right or wrong - it's not simply a matter of allowing people to choose how to live their lives - you also have to consider the affects of those choices on others. You believe there will be none, I believe there will be some. So we are at a stalemate.

[TexaninVA]

I think it is totally wrong for a person to place blame on a substance and not take into account addictive personality traits. To blame any one substance is just a form of rationalization. If one in question didn't get you , something else would, sometimes even with proper psychological care. First hand experience, pot is NOT A GATEWAY drug. Alcohol,salt, sugar, and even over the counter drugs used to self medicate are far worse.

We have argued pro / con on whether pot is a gateway drug ad infinitum ... the horse is a bloody pulp at this point. Most of us have known people to whom it was definitely a gateway drug. Yes, personality shortcomings are a factor too ... excessive usage of pot (or booze, or various other "vices") is also a factor.

Guess we'll all more or less continue to believe what our own set of eyeballs has shown us over the years.

[TexaninVA]

I am happy to say I am on the right side of this issue.

For First Time, Americans Favor Legalizing Marijuana (http://www.gallup.com/poll/165539/first-time-americans-favor-legalizing-marijuana.aspx)

I don't and won't smoke. Live your life and let others live theirs. It's that simple.

Actually, you are on the left side of the issue but I don't want to quibble.

[TexaninVA]

The point you are missing is those opposed believe people choosing to live their lives in this matter could negatively affect them and society. No different then people believe alcohol should be banned or atheists objecting
to open displays of Christian symbols. We all have our opinions on what is right or wrong - it's not simply a matter of allowing people to choose how to live their lives - you also have to consider the affects of those choices on others. You believe there will be none, I believe there will be some. So we are at a stalemate.

well put and I agree

[Golfingnut]

Actually, you are on the left side of the issue but I don't want to quibble.

Or the winning side, but no need o nit pick LOL.

[Chi-Town]

Time for the peace pipe. Contents by choice.

[Golfingnut]

Time for the peace pipe. Contents by choice.

I will drink to that.

[Polar Bear]

Or the winning side...

You really are something, 'nut. This is the last time I will waste my time responding directly to one of your posts.

You get the last word. Have fun with it.

[Golfingnut]

You really are something, 'nut. This is the last time I will waste my time responding directly to one of your posts.

You get the last word. Have fun with it.

There is a god.

[graciegirl]

Where are the moddies?

[Golfingnut]

If you need help , you can hit the triangle in the upper right corner. To many crossing guards and narcs lately

[TexaninVA]

Or the winning side, but no need o nit pick LOL.

Winning indeed, if that's the word for it, in a poll of aging baby boomers (myself included). Winning in terms of the broader left wing perspective, no comment since a) it would be quite critical and b) off topic anyway. I would simply say look at the state the US is in today and it is quite sad on multiple dimensions.

[gomoho]

Or the winning side, but no need o nit pick LOL.

"WINNING" is that you Charlie Sheen???

[Golfingnut]

Did anybody notice the LOL I added to the post. It was supposed to be a joke.

[yabbadu]

Do you support the legalization of RECREATIONAL marijuana?

Yes I support this. As a person with a chronic illness, I cannot do any more harm than all the pills I take!

[Moderator]

The thread is now closed - too much unnecessary antagonism plus the subject of the thread has been thoroughly discussed.

Moderator