Surprised and very disappointed in TV

[lovinganimals]

Yesterday when at the starter for Truman, we were told a man had "gone down" on the first hole so we had to wait. Although I am not a nurse, I am in the medical field so I had my husband run our cart over as the ambulance had not gotten there yet and I saw him lying face down on the green with everyone standing around. I knelt down by him and saw his face all covered in blood. He had what the others described as "seizure like" movements and then fell face down. He was awake but not really alert, not completely coherent. I checked his pulse with my fingers and tried to talk to him and looked him over until the ambulance got there. When I got back to the starter, I asked why no one had brought over an AED (automated external defibrillator). I was told "they tried, but it was locked up and no one had the key"!!!!! If this man was having a heart attack or was in an irregular heart rhythm, the AED would recognize the rhythm and inform me to shock him to try to get him out of it. It could have meant the difference between this man living or dying. I am greatly disappointed in this situation.

[Villager Joyce]

My prayers are with the man and his family. Hopefully a lesson will be learned by this experience. Thank you for stepping in and helping.

[Chazz]

Lovinganimals,

You are so right, about how the AED situation could have been disastrous. If it happened at Truman, I wouldn't be surprised if similar situations exist at other TV courses. Did you call anyone in TV golf management to inform them?

[buggyone]

I am also surprised that all the starters are not given keys to the AED boxes. i am sure that AEDs are at every starter shack - or they should be! Training in the use of the AED should be a requirement for being a starter or ambassador.

This incident actually happened at the first hole of Roosevelt - which is basically the same as the first at Truman.

[Bogie Shooter]

Yesterday when at the starter for Truman, we were told a man had "gone down" on the first hole so we had to wait. Although I am not a nurse, I am in the medical field so I had my husband run our cart over as the ambulance had not gotten there yet and I saw him lying face down on the green with everyone standing around. I knelt down by him and saw his face all covered in blood. He had what the others described as "seizure like" movements and then fell face down. He was awake but not really alert, not completely coherent. I checked his pulse with my fingers and tried to talk to him and looked him over until the ambulance got there. When I got back to the starter, I asked why no one had brought over an AED (automated external defibrillator). I was told "they tried, but it was locked up and no one had the key"!!!!! If this man was having a heart attack or was in an irregular heart rhythm, the AED would recognize the rhythm and inform me to shock him to try to get him out of it. It could have meant the difference between this man living or dying. I am greatly disappointed in this situation.

Thank you for what you did.
However, posting here accomplishes nothing, other than inform readers of TOTV.
I suggest you contact these folks and express your disappointment. (They cannot fix something unless they know its broken.)
I for one would like to know what response you receive.
_____________________________________________
Public Safety
3035 Morse Boulevard
The Villages, FL 32163

Phone: 352-205-8280
Fax: 352-205-8290

Business Hours for Administration:
8am to 5pm, EST
Monday � Friday
Excluding Holidays

_______________________________________________
The Villages Golf and County Club Administration
1000 Main Street suite 248
The Villages, FL 32159
352-753-3396

[Abster]

I hope and pray this gentleman will be okay. I am also saddened to hear no one could get to this life saving equipment. This is a retirement community and you would certainly expect more. Not to change the subject BUT I hate going to the square. I push my husband in a wheelchair. There are many times we are heading one direction and have to do a Uturn because there is no handicap access...no way onto or off sidewalks. Are you kidding me? In a village full of old people? This community is this old and these serious problems have never been addressed? I am so happy this is NOT my primary residence.

[Bogie Shooter]

I hope and pray this gentleman will be okay. I am also saddened to hear no one could get to this life saving equipment. This is a retirement community and you would certainly expect more. Not to change the subject BUT I hate going to the square. I push my husband in a wheelchair. There are many times we are heading one direction and have to do a Uturn because there is no handicap access...no way onto or off sidewalks. Are you kidding me? In a village full of old people? This community is this old and these serious problems have never been addressed? I am so happy this is NOT my primary residence.

Where in particular, seems like all the corners have lowered curbs?
Also don't know how to take your last sentence, is it your second residence?

[kittygilchrist]

hmm, I'm not a medical professional but I am trained in AED. I wasn't trained to use it on people who are conscious and have a pulse.
NIH site below appears to agree with the way my training presented it:
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/aed/howtouse.html

Also, who owns the AED? that's likely who has keys. My neighborhood bought them and we all contribute for them and 50 of us have keys and are trained. 911 calls for addresses only within the neighborhood are assessed for an unconscious victim who may have cardiac arrest. Only then is a call dispatched to activate our network.

If a golfer on the course behind my house had cardiac arrest, our network would not be notified of it, even though I could get an AED to the victim more quickly than EMT's.

[Whatever]

I too am a first responder and would suggest that all AED boxes be keyed alike in The Villages. If that were the the case, I would suggest that they be carried around with the cart and car key for situations that were descibed by the OP.

[Bogie Shooter]

I too am a first responder and would suggest that all AED boxes be keyed alike in The Villages. If that were the the case, I would suggest that they be carried around with the cart and car key for situations that were descibed by the OP.

Carried by whom?

[lovinganimals]

hmm, I'm not a medical professional but I am trained in AED. I wasn't trained to use it on people who are conscious and have a pulse.-Kitty

I also questioned a doctor I work with about using it on a person who has a pulse and his response was to hook them up because the AED assesses their pulse and tells you if a shock is needed. I do nuclear stress testing and have seen people in V-fib and V-tach who are conscious and need to be shocked to bring them back to a normal rhythm. So having them hooked up to the AED is at least one way we can help them before EMS arrives. I am just glad I did not get to this man and have him be unconscious with no pulse and NOT have an AED. Yes I could do CPR, but I would not do breaths because his mouth was full of blood (but they have shown CPR to be helpful even without breaths) but nothing replaces an AED in that situation.
I will call Truman/Roosevelt rec center or the appropriate people and inform them of the situation as someone suggested. :)

[billethkid]

I am greatly disappointed in this situation.

Your title for the thread stated disappointment in TV......however your more accurate statement is the last sentence in your post as shown above.

Too often too many people tar TV for the consequences of an isolated incident. I am glad to see that is not the case here. I am always amused at those who are so ready to accept the onsey twosey scenarios as an incrimination of the whole....like being glad this is no one's primary residence because of an instance that thus far NO ONE has done any more that speculate at best and extrapolated the incident at worst!!!

I would look into the nobody has the key answer because that is not the way the system of AEDs are put in and people trained. There is definitely more to that "story". I am only speaking from the training and routine that we went through when we put the AEDs in our neighborhood.

I am not doubting or challenging the word of the OP........I would just like to know more about why the AED routine did not work as intended.......

[2BNTV]

hmm, I'm not a medical professional but I am trained in AED. I wasn't trained to use it on people who are conscious and have a pulse.-Kitty

I also questioned a doctor I work with about using it on a person who has a pulse and his response was to hook them up because the AED assesses their pulse and tells you if a shock is needed. I do nuclear stress testing and have seen people in V-fib and V-tach who are conscious and need to be shocked to bring them back to a normal rhythm. So having them hooked up to the AED is at least one way we can help them before EMS arrives. I am just glad I did not get to this man and have him be unconscious with no pulse and NOT have an AED. Yes I could do CPR, but I would not do breaths because his mouth was full of blood (but they have shown CPR to be helpful even without breaths) but nothing replaces an AED in that situation.
I will call Truman/Roosevelt rec center or the appropriate people and inform them of the situation as someone suggested. :)

I want to commend you for stepping up in this situation. :BigApplause:

[douga]

I was playing the first hole at Truman when this happened. A scary thing to be sure as he was face down,bleeding and convulsing. Two of us ran over immediately but not being trained medically there was nothing we could do but wait at the gate and direct the ambulance.

Special thanks should indeed go to the lady who helped but also to the man playing with this gentleman who immediately ran back to the starter to get help. I was also impressed that the medial personnel arrived in less than five minutes after being called. Hopefully this quick action by everyone helped the gentleman who was having trouble.

[Abster]

Where in particular, seems like all the corners have lowered curbs?
Also don't know how to take your last sentence, is it your second residence?

Take a walk around LSL. You'll soon all the sidewalks are not accessible on both ends. Also, notice how few Handicapped parking spaces there are???? Absolutely insane. Yes, this is just a get away place for us. We have an oceanfront home a few hours away. We bought here for the lifestyle but found it's too crowded to really enjoy. We do have a lot of friends who have second homes here - for the winter golf. I personally feel it's far too crowded and it's beginning to show it's got the same problems as any other community out there - thieves, sex offenders, drug and alcohol abuse...

[Bogie Shooter]

hmm, I'm not a medical professional but I am trained in AED. I wasn't trained to use it on people who are conscious and have a pulse.-Kitty

I also questioned a doctor I work with about using it on a person who has a pulse and his response was to hook them up because the AED assesses their pulse and tells you if a shock is needed. I do nuclear stress testing and have seen people in V-fib and V-tach who are conscious and need to be shocked to bring them back to a normal rhythm. So having them hooked up to the AED is at least one way we can help them before EMS arrives. I am just glad I did not get to this man and have him be unconscious with no pulse and NOT have an AED. Yes I could do CPR, but I would not do breaths because his mouth was full of blood (but they have shown CPR to be helpful even without breaths) but nothing replaces an AED in that situation.
I will call Truman/Roosevelt rec center or the appropriate people and inform them of the situation as someone suggested. :)

Probably a waste of time to call a rec center.

[Bogie Shooter]

Your title for the thread stated disappointment in TV......however your more accurate statement is the last sentence in your post as shown above.

Too often too many people tar TV for the consequences of an isolated incident. I am glad to see that is not the case here. I am always amused at those who are so ready to accept the onsey twosey scenarios as an incrimination of the whole....like being glad this is no one's primary residence because of an instance that thus far NO ONE has done any more that speculate at best and extrapolated the incident at worst!!!

I would look into the nobody has the key answer because that is not the way the system of AEDs are put in and people trained. There is definitely more to that "story". I am only speaking from the training and routine that we went through when we put the AEDs in our neighborhood.

I am not doubting or challenging the word of the OP........I would just like to know more about why the AED routine did not work as intended.......

I agree the title was a big broad brush.

[getdul981]

Carried by whom?

All first responders.

[lovinganimals]

Your title for the thread stated disappointment in TV......however your more accurate statement is the last sentence in your post as shown above.

I would look into the nobody has the key answer because that is not the way the system of AEDs are put in and people trained. There is definitely more to that "story". I am only speaking from the training and routine that we went through when we put the AEDs in our neighborhood.

I am not doubting or challenging the word of the OP........I would just like to know more about why the AED routine did not work as intended.......

You are right, I should have said I was disappointed in the situation, not TV. I am disappointed in the fact that no one could get at the AED. I do not know exactly why as I was with the gentleman on the green. When I got back to the starter, I mentioned that I was surprised the AED was not brought out there and I was just told by other people that they "couldn't get at it, it was locked up". I would think that any time an ambulance is called for unknown reasons (not a broken leg or some other obvious reason), that the AED would be brought out IN CASE its needed. Better to have it and not need it.....they are self explanatory so even non medical people can use them. They have directions for putting on the pads and it talks to the person and tells them what to do. They should be easily accessible.

[kittygilchrist]

All first responders.

Does TV place AEDs? where do they place them? I am a first responder for my neighborhood and helped pay for the AEDs.
How would you all propose this be organized that the responders from my neighborhood become responsible to respond all over TV?

[lovinganimals]

I believe all the rec centers have AEDs. I am almost positive saw signs for one once. If I am wrong, please correct me. All I know is there was one in the area of this incident and when the starter went to get it, it was locked up.

[Bogie Shooter]

Does TV place AEDs? where do they place them? I am a first responder for my neighborhood and helped pay for the AEDs.
How would you all propose this be organized that the responders from my neighborhood become responsible to respond all over TV?

Nearly all the neighborhoods/villages have done what yours did. They are organized with first responders with AED's paid for by the villagers.
No need for a new wheel...................

[Bogie Shooter]

I believe all the rec centers have AEDs. I am almost positive saw signs for one once. If I am wrong, please correct me. All I know is there was one in the area of this incident and when the starter went to get it, it was locked up.

Will be nice to hear the other side of the story.

[senior citizen]

ABSTER:


I hope and pray this gentleman will be okay. I am also saddened to hear no one could get to this life saving equipment. This is a retirement community and you would certainly expect more. Not to change the subject BUT I hate going to the square. I push my husband in a wheelchair. There are many times we are heading one direction and have to do a Uturn because there is no handicap access...no way onto or off sidewalks. Are you kidding me? In a village full of old people? This community is this old and these serious problems have never been addressed? I am so happy this is NOT my primary residence.
************************************************** **********************
Take a walk around LSL. You'll soon all the sidewalks are not accessible on both ends. Also, notice how few Handicapped parking spaces there are???? Absolutely insane. Yes, this is just a get away place for us. We have an oceanfront home a few hours away. We bought here for the lifestyle but found it's too crowded to really enjoy. We do have a lot of friends who have second homes here - for the winter golf. I personally feel it's far too crowded and it's beginning to show it's got the same problems as any other community out there - thieves, sex offenders, drug and alcohol abuse...
************************************************** ************************************************** ****


Serious concerns expressed above by this new poster.......
I read both posts with total understanding of what she was trying to convey. As we all age, at some time or another, everyone will confront problems of mobility, or perhaps an unexpected medical emergency..........in a retirement community of oldsters (or I used to assume they were all old people like us), ease of access to all venues , along with handicapped parking, should be a top priority.

Anytime a place gets too big, the little things , the important things, get lost along the way.

Hopefully, all turned out well for the injured individual, as the ambulance did seem to arrive in an expedient manner.

To the original poster, I knew what you meant to convey........
We too, have been weighing apples vs. oranges, such as the desirability of a much smaller community on the oceanfront which has all of the services one would desire, plus less crowded conditions with lower population.......vs. the original dream of The Villages as a retirement destination. Perhaps we waited too long and are already too old. Que sera sera.......

[Bogie Shooter]

Recreation Center / Government Office Building AED Data as of 02/01/2013

Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/PDFView.aspx?path=/pdfUpload/AEDlocations.pdf&ql=publicsafety)

Public Safety CPR/AED Classes
Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/departments/Public-Safety/cpr.aspx)

[Bogie Shooter]

I hope and pray this gentleman will be okay. I am also saddened to hear no one could get to this life saving equipment. This is a retirement community and you would certainly expect more. Not to change the subject BUT I hate going to the square. I push my husband in a wheelchair. There are many times we are heading one direction and have to do a Uturn because there is no handicap access...no way onto or off sidewalks. Are you kidding me? In a village full of old people? This community is this old and these serious problems have never been addressed? I am so happy this is NOT my primary residence.
************************************************** **********************
Take a walk around LSL. You'll soon all the sidewalks are not accessible on both ends. Also, notice how few Handicapped parking spaces there are???? Absolutely insane. Yes, this is just a get away place for us. We have an oceanfront home a few hours away. We bought here for the lifestyle but found it's too crowded to really enjoy. We do have a lot of friends who have second homes here - for the winter golf. I personally feel it's far too crowded and it's beginning to show it's got the same problems as any other community out there - thieves, sex offenders, drug and alcohol abuse...
************************************************** ************************************************** ****


Serious concerns expressed above by this new poster.......
I read both posts with total understanding of what she was trying to convey. As we all age, at some time or another, everyone will confront problems of mobility, or perhaps an unexpected medical emergency..........in a retirement community of oldsters (or I used to assume they were all old people like us), ease of access to all venues , along with handicapped parking, should be a top priority.

Anytime a place gets too big, the little things , the important things, get lost along the way.

Hopefully, all turned out well for the injured individual, as the ambulance did seem to arrive in an expedient manner.

To the original poster, I knew what you meant to convey........
We too, have been weighing apples vs. oranges, such as the desirability of a much smaller community on the oceanfront which has all of the services one would desire, plus less crowded conditions with lower population.......vs. the original dream of The Villages as a retirement destination. Perhaps we waited too long and are already too old. Que sera sera.......

To begin I suggest you go and reread post #12.
You have jumped to conclusions on both instances.
We do not know the full story regarding the AED issue. To find fault with the whole villages is wrong at this point. There is a very active AED program with many in place and more on the way. Did you know that? See post 25.
The issue of handicapped parking spaces has been brought before on TOTV and issue was responded to by the District Manager. The result was the law has been followed. Did you know that? What makes you think it is not a high priority?
Important things getting lost...........based on what?
It is easy to judge from afar with little first hand knowledge.

[senior citizen]

To begin I suggest you go and reread post #12.
You have jumped to conclusions on both instances.
We do not know the full story regarding the AED issue. To find fault with the whole villages is wrong at this point. There is a very active AED program with many in place and more on the way. Did you know that? See post 25.
The issue of handicapped parking spaces has been brought before on TOTV and issue was responded to by the District Manager. The result was the law has been followed. Did you know that? What makes you think it is not a high priority?
Important things getting lost...........based on what?
It is easy to judge from afar with little first hand knowledge.


Abster was the one who wrote what you quoted me as saying.
I was replying to them. I could sympathize with those who have lack of mobility, or those who were struck on the golf course.

Senior Citizen DID NOT say what you attribute that quote to.

[ilovetv]

I hope and pray this gentleman will be okay. I am also saddened to hear no one could get to this life saving equipment. This is a retirement community and you would certainly expect more. Not to change the subject BUT I hate going to the square. I push my husband in a wheelchair. There are many times we are heading one direction and have to do a Uturn because there is no handicap access...no way onto or off sidewalks. Are you kidding me? In a village full of old people? This community is this old and these serious problems have never been addressed? I am so happy this is NOT my primary residence.

And Senior says "a retirement community of oldsters"??????

Excuse me, but these two labels making TV sound geriatric and decrepit have NOTHING to do with us and our 100 or more CYV neighbors, and they have nothing to do all other neighborhoods with which we are familiar. TV is marketed as an 'active adult community', and that is what it is.

There is gross mischaracterization going on in this thread.

[buggyone]

It would be of concern IF there was an AED by the starter shack (or nearby vicinity) and it was locked and no one had a key nor was trained in how to use it.

As I stated earlier, I believe a condition of employment as a starter or golf ambassador would be to trained in how to use the AED - and a key kept in the starter shacks.

As far as the handicapped curbs around Lake Sumter Landing, they are at every corner.

Try telling the golfers on any of the executive or championship golf course, the pickleball courts, the platform tennis courts, the softball fields, or the tennis courts that they are living in a village full of old people or a retirement community of oldsters. Maybe The Villages is not the right place for some people as The Villages is an active lifestyle community. Think about it.

[billethkid]

The too crowded and too big excuses are just biased opinions by some of the very few who may prefer and probably should pursue another retirement venue.

I wonder what size cities they might be from. And what kinds of non busy places they might prefer.

To each his/her own but please don't knock what most of us enjoy!

[buggyone]

The too crowded and too big excuses are just biased opinions by some of the very few who may prefer and probably should pursue another retirement venue.

I wonder what size cities they might be from. And what kinds of non busy places they might prefer.

To each his/her own but please don't knock what most of us enjoy!

This is one of the few times I fully agree with you. :beer3:

[Golfingnut]

The too crowded and too big excuses are just biased opinions by some of the very few who may prefer and probably should pursue another retirement venue.

I wonder what size cities they might be from. And what kinds of non busy places they might prefer.

To each his/her own but please don't knock what most of us enjoy!

:bigbow:

[senior citizen]

And Senior says "a retirement community of oldsters"??????

Excuse me, but these two labels making TV sound geriatric and decrepit have NOTHING to do with us and our 100 or more CYV neighbors, and they have nothing to do all other neighborhoods with which we are familiar. TV is marketed as an 'active adult community', and that is what it is.

There is gross mischaracterization going on in this thread.



Abster said "A village full of old people".
I did say "A retirement community of oldsters".

We are 69; our friends are all 71 and older (to put things in perspective). Our five grandkids range in age from one year old to twenty years old. 1, 3, 9, 12, 20. With more babies to come.

Our adult children are 42, turning 43, and 46. Does that put things in perspective? I guess it all depends on where one is coming from. Our daughter's spouse could retire now to TV.

We will be celebrating our 50th wedding anniversary next year.
To me, that's a lot of aging...........ha ha.

Eternal youth would indeed be wonderful; no one would turn it down, for sure.


Unfortunately, life marches on and what one "was" at 55, they may no longer be at 75 or beyond. I would imagine that many who bought in THE VILLAGES at its inception might be "on in years" by now. Wouldn't they be the elders and the oldsters? I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that many residents are up there in years; that not ALL are the younger set.


Not having government jobs, all of our friends and neighbors retired at age 66......now pushing 70. We definitely are NOT the younger crowd. Been there done that. Fondly remember our 40's, 50's, 60's.


70 is different. 80 is different, as is 90 and beyond. Have cared for aging parents; know what it's really like. I live in the real world.....and have no delusions or illusions of eternal youth, except in mind and heart. One can always remain "young at heart". A gift.


A bit of levity.................


Does anyone remember the movie Soylent Green???? Remember the ending?????


Anyone who remembers the ending, please post it. Hope we don't end up that way. For one, I've always enjoyed our elderly neighbors and friends. They had a lot of wisdom and life experience which the youngsters have no clue about.........yet.
As my mom would say, "youth is wasted on the young"......she had great humor, as did our geriatric friends whom we invited to all of our house parties. We love old people. They have lived life and know what it's all about.....including the aging part.


But the worse scenario is someone on in years, trying to act or look young or "cool".


SOYLENT GREEN
'""In 2022, Earth is overpopulated and totally polluted; the natural resources have been exhausted and the nourishment of the population is provided by Soylent Industries, a company that makes a food consisting of plankton from the oceans......."SUPPOSEDLY".


''''A tale of Earth in despair in 2022. Natural food like fruits, vegetables, and meat among others are now extinct. Earth is overpopulated and New York City has 40 million starving, poverty stricken people. The only way they survive is with water rations and youeating a mysterious food called Soylent. A detective investigates the murder of the president of the Soylent company. The truth he uncovers is more disturbing than the Earth in turmoil when he learns the secret ingredient of Soylent Green. ''''


''''In the year 2022, earth's face has completely changed. New York's population, for example, has grown to 40 million mouths to feed. The greenhouse effect has risen the temperature into nearly unbearable regions, and the people are kept in the cities by law. The rich live in separated luxury apartments (with women as part of the rented furniture) but also experience the lack of natural food. Strawberries are at $150 for a glass of them.""


""Police Detective Thorn investigates a strange murder case of an official from the Soylent corporation, which feeds the masses with a palette of their creations: Soylent red, yellow, or, even more nutritious, green.''''


"""Thorn's investigation into Simonson's murder leads him to uncover a conspiracy in the Soylant company and the Soylent Green food product itself, where Thorn uncovers the horrible truth about Soylent Green. """"




What is this horrible truth???? I know. Do you? Still remember seeing that movie.


I'm pretty sure that the "oldsters" can live happily and peaceably alongside the "youngsters" in T.V.


When I was in my 40's and 50's , I truly had no clue what "slowing down" meant (as said by our older relatives and neighbors).
I feel guilty now for expecting more of them than was physically possible at their stage in life. Been there, done that.


May you live 100 years........


　


　








　

[JourneyOfLife]

And Senior says "a retirement community of oldsters"??????

Excuse me, but these two labels making TV sound geriatric and decrepit have NOTHING to do with us and our 100 or more CYV neighbors, and they have nothing to do all other neighborhoods with which we are familiar. TV is marketed as an 'active adult community', and that is what it is.

There is gross mischaracterization going on in this thread.

To me it this sounds like an over reaction to an accurate descriptor.

The word "oldster" is not a pejorative.

oldster - definition of oldster by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/oldster)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_age#Definitions

Matter of fact, it is a very accurate description.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Villages,_Florida#Demographics

I don't think the substitute description in your post is an accurate meaning of the word....

[senior citizen]

To me it this sounds like an over reaction to an accurate descriptor.

The word "oldster" is not a pejorative.

oldster - definition of oldster by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/oldster)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_age#Definitions

Matter of fact, it is a very accurate description.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Villages,_Florida#Demographics

I don't think the substitute description in your post is an accurate meaning of the word....



Great Post:

One part mentioned:
Official definitions

""Old age comprises "the later part of life; the period of life after youth and middle age . . . , usually with reference to deterioration"

When old age begins cannot be universally defined because it shifts according to the context. The United Nations has agreed that 60+ years may be usually denoted as old age,and this is the first attempt at an international definition of old age. However, for its study of old age in Africa, the World Health Organization (WHO) set 50 as the beginning of old age. At the same time, the WHO recognized that the developing world often defines old age, not by years, but by new roles, loss of previous roles, or inability to make active contribution to society.

Most developed Western countries set the age of 60 to 65 for retirement and old-age social programs eligibility. However, various countries and societies reckon the onset of old age as anywhere from the mid-40s to the 70s. Furthermore, the fact that life expectancy beyond 80 has become widespread has shifted definitions of old age."""

We remember being middle aged, in our 40's when our kids were at university and later married.....hubby is now 69 and I turn 69 next month. Having the grandchildren come along certainly set the record straight as far as who were the "oldsters" in our family. Our parents are all gone, our aunts and uncles are all gone. To pretend that we are the younger generation would be crazy.

I can still remember when we were in our late 20's and 30's, one lady in her 60's REFUSED to be called "Grandma" and DEFINITELY WOULD GET IRATE if anyone called her a "senior citizen"......
Go figure. I've been called Grandma, grammy, gram, nana, you name it. I'll take them all, proudly. And we are young at heart and young in spirit. WE even watch THE VOICE.

Thank you for your post.

P.S. 40 IS MIDDLE AGED AS IT IS HALF OF 80.......NOT EVERYONE SURVIVES TO 80.
I have two middle aged adult children........we are definitely NOT physically in their league and don't pretend to be.

[Moderator]

Please return to the original topic ... an incident where a person was in distress and access to an AED was not available.

Discussions about age, aging, etc are fodder for a new thread.

Thank you.

Moderator

[DDoug]

Dont know if anyone said this but what if the starters are not trained and if they miss use the AED they could possibly kill someone. Like one post never used it on a person that had a pulse. Everyone is quick to blame and be honest you have to be careful. Even pick some one up if they just fall could make a minor injury worse . Personally if I cant get up on my uwn call 911 and leave me on the ground unless of course there is immediate danger. Old saying Be careful what you wish for.

[jerseyvillager]

Make it simple. Starters unlock case in the am and lock it in the pm.

[mulligan]

Starters are trained to notify county dispatch, and see that help gets to the proper location. Period. End of training. Starters are NOT first responders.

[kittygilchrist]

hmm, I'm not a medical professional but I am trained in AED. I wasn't trained to use it on people who are conscious and have a pulse.-Kitty

I also questioned a doctor I work with about using it on a person who has a pulse and his response was to hook them up because the AED assesses their pulse and tells you if a shock is needed. I do nuclear stress testing and have seen people in V-fib and V-tach who are conscious and need to be shocked to bring them back to a normal rhythm. So having them hooked up to the AED is at least one way we can help them before EMS arrives. I am just glad I did not get to this man and have him be unconscious with no pulse and NOT have an AED. Yes I could do CPR, but I would not do breaths because his mouth was full of blood (but they have shown CPR to be helpful even without breaths) but nothing replaces an AED in that situation.
I will call Truman/Roosevelt rec center or the appropriate people and inform them of the situation as someone suggested. :)

Regarding use of breaths in CPR, the training NOW does not use breath at all.

[graciegirl]

Starters are trained to notify county dispatch, and see that help gets to the proper location. Period. End of training. Starters are NOT first responders.



I am very glad to hear this clarified. BY someone I have learned to trust. A reasonable person.

[John_W]

I just wrote a check for $120 to purchase 4 AED's for the Village of Tamarind Grove golf side. That's Southern Star Villas and Odessa Circle designer homes, 168 units total. We are going to have one at the front and back entrance to the villas and since Odessa Circle makes a complete loop around the outside of the villas, they will put the other two somewhere on Odessa Circle.

I was told that once you connect the AED to an person it will indicate what you should do or not do. We'll have residents who are trained in their operation, in fact Monday some are going to the Sarasota Fire Station for an introduction.

[gerryann]

Without reading through all these posts....what good are the AED's if they are locked up?

[buggyone]

Without reading through all these posts....what good are the AED's if they are locked up?

Within each neighborhood that purchases the AED, the "responders" will all have a key to the box housing the unit.

[gerryann]

Within each neighborhood that purchases the AED, the "responders" will all have a key to the box housing the unit.

But that doesn't help the person that needs it NOW. The person needing to grab the AED now has to find a person with the key. ......doesn't make sense to me that they are locked. They need to be used instantly. ( I'm not talking about this particular case, although it should have been in someone's hands in case he needed it)

[Taltarzac725]

But that doesn't help the person that needs it NOW. The person needing to grab the AED now has to find a person with the key. ......doesn't make sense to me that they are locked. They need to be used instantly. ( I'm not talking about this particular case, although it should have been in someone's hands in case he needed it)

Maybe, they need some other kind of locking system-- like a code entry-- which would allow more people to access it without a probability that someone might steal it for profit or kicks.

[buggyone]

But that doesn't help the person that needs it NOW. The person needing to grab the AED now has to find a person with the key. ......doesn't make sense to me that they are locked. They need to be used instantly. ( I'm not talking about this particular case, although it should have been in someone's hands in case he needed it)

The AEDs are housed in a locked box that is attached to the outside of a person's house. The units are valued at around $1,700. All the responders have a key to the locked box. Chances are that the EMTs will be at the victim's house within a couple of minutes than when the neighborhood responders get there. The AED program is a great second layer of protection.

I still think that the starters and golf ambassadors should be certified as responders as a condition of employment.

[justjim]

The AEDs are housed in a locked box that is attached to the outside of a person's house. The units are valued at around $1,700. All the responders have a key to the locked box. Chances are that the EMTs will be at the victim's house within a couple of minutes than when the neighborhood responders get there. The AED program is a great second layer of protection.

I still think that the starters and golf ambassadors should be certified as responders as a condition of employment.

:bigbow: I agree that the starters and ambassadors should be trained responders. Someday they could help save a life---some may already be trained on their own or as part of a neighborhood program.

[graciegirl]

I would want someone with training putting the AED on my loved ones. I know it is simple, but you must have training to be the person who will use it. AT least that is what I thought they said when they came to our village to tell about it. We have two units and eight or nine trained people.


Many, many villages are buying them and getting training.


You must meet the criteria to be shocked. Not everyone who is down, is out, if you see what I mean.

[Bogie Shooter]

Are we posting solutions to a problem that maybe does not exist?

[buggyone]

Are we posting solutions to a problem that maybe does not exist?

The AED program is a layer of insurance. We will be getting them soon in my neighborhood and I am contributing to the cost. Of course, the AED service will be provided to all in the 'hood no matter if they contributed or not.

[billethkid]

I think it bears repeating that the when the AED devices are installed around the rec centers or starter shacks there was appropriate training of folks to use these devices and a routine whereby those qualified can be contacted in the event of an emergency.

This is the part that did not for what ever reason work properly in the event the OP described. The reason for that needs to be pursued or there will be a repeat if needed in the future!

[Bogie Shooter]

The AED program is a layer of insurance. We will be getting them soon in my neighborhood and I am contributing to the cost. Of course, the AED service will be provided to all in the 'hood no matter if they contributed or not.

I agree with you it is good that the AED program is or will be in all Villages.
The people posting, how it should be run and who should run it, don't have a clue about how the program at the rec centers and golf courses is designed and run. And further to jump to the conclusion, because of one incident, that the program is failing.....is unfair to all those volunteers (our neighbors) who make it work.

[michaelkir]

Can someone please tell me where at the Truman starter shack the AED is located??

If not, can you tell me, was it in fact locked and no one could get to it??

I am pretty sure there is no AED at the Truman starter shack.

Is anyone sure there are AED's at any of the starter shacks???

Is there really one there?? Or is there a lot of guessing going on here???

Is there really training for the starters on AED's ??

[graciegirl]

Can someone please tell me where at the Truman starter shack the AED is located??

If not, can you tell me, was it in fact locked and no one could get to it??

I am pretty sure there is no AED at the Truman starter shack.

Is anyone sure there are AED's at any of the starter shacks???

Is there really one there?? Or is there a lot of guessing going on here???

Is there really training for the starters on AED's ??



I called the number for the Truman/Roosevelt starter shack and asked the gentleman who answered if there is an AED/defibulator in the starter shack? And he said he didn't know, you would have to call the "club". I asked if he was trained to use an AED/defibulator and he said "No, Maam".He said he didn't think that there was one in the starter shack.


Bogie? You can get better information than this. Go for it, boy.

[Bogie Shooter]

Serious concerns expressed above by this new poster.......
I read both posts with total understanding of what she was trying to convey. As we all age, at some time or another, everyone will confront problems of mobility, or perhaps an unexpected medical emergency..........in a retirement community of oldsters (or I used to assume they were all old people like us), ease of access to all venues , along with handicapped parking, should be a top priority.

Anytime a place gets too big, the little things , the important things, get lost along the way.

Hopefully, all turned out well for the injured individual, as the ambulance did seem to arrive in an expedient manner.

To the original poster, I knew what you meant to convey........
We too, have been weighing apples vs. oranges, such as the desirability of a much smaller community on the oceanfront which has all of the services one would desire, plus less crowded conditions with lower population.......vs. the original dream of The Villages as a retirement destination. Perhaps we waited too long and are already too old. Que sera sera.......

To begin I suggest you go and reread post #12.
You have jumped to conclusions on both instances.
We do not know the full story regarding the AED issue. To find fault with the whole villages is wrong at this point. There is a very active AED program with many in place and more on the way. Did you know that? See post 25.
The issue of handicapped parking spaces has been brought before on TOTV and issue was responded to by the District Manager. The result was the law has been followed. Did you know that? What makes you think it is not a high priority?
Important things getting lost...........based on what?
It is easy to judge from afar with little first hand knowledge.
__________________
Speak your mind but keep a fast horse.





Abster was the one who wrote what you quoted me as saying.
I was replying to them. I could sympathize with those who have lack of mobility, or those who were struck on the golf course.

Senior Citizen DID NOT say what you attribute that quote to.

And then again maybe.....................

[kittygilchrist]

This is as much fact as I could find.....

According to:
Capt. Gail J. Lazenby, EMT-P
Training & Quality Assurance
gail.lazenby@districtgov.org
who trained me in CPR and AED as a Gilchrist community first responder:

As I understood him (Gail) to say, Golf Management Solutions (GMS) is contracted to manage all the courses, whether owned by the developer or the district. No starter huts have AED's which decision is apparently based on liability concerns of GMS.

Rec centers still owned by the developer and sports pools do have AEDs and staff trained to respond. Truman Rec Center does have an AED, the golf starter hut does not.
The Rec Ctr unit is not locked.

Further, Gail echoed what his training indicates: don't use a defibrillator on a conscious patient with a pulse and (I'm adding) ask yourself if you are qualified to handle CPR and an AED if you aren't trained or your certification is expired. The training is quick, easy, and readily available.

[kittygilchrist]

///

[Mikeod]

This is as much fact as I could find.....

According to:
Capt. Gail J. Lazenby, EMT-P
Training & Quality Assurance
gail.lazenby@districtgov.org
who trained me in CPR and AED as a Gilchrist community first responder:

As I understood him (Gail) to say, Golf Management Solutions (GMS) is contracted to manage all the courses, whether owned by the developer or the district. No starter huts have AED's which decision is apparently based on liability concerns of GMS.

Rec centers still owned by the developer and sports pools do have AEDs and staff trained to respond. Truman Rec Center does have an AED, the golf starter hut does not.
The Rec Ctr unit is not locked.

Further, Gail echoed what his training indicates: don't use a defibrillator on a conscious patient with a pulse and (I'm adding) ask yourself if you are qualified to handle CPR and an AED if you aren't trained or your certification is expired. The training is quick, easy, and readily available.
The question of AEDs at the golf courses has been raised several times in the past. The response has been that by the time someone drives back to the starter/golf shop and gets the AED and goes back to the victim, the paramedics could already be there. To the question of someone calling the starter to have the AED sent out, the better answer is to call 911 and give course and location. The emergency vehicles have all the course information to get there quickly.

With the proliferation of cell phones, it is advisable to have one with you when playing (please put it on vibrate and keep it in your bag) in case of an emergency.

[rhood]

I am told that starters/ambassadors are forbidden to render any kind of medical aid. Even if the starter or ambassador is a retired MD. Can any course worker verify that?

[perrjojo]

But that doesn't help the person that needs it NOW. The person needing to grab the AED now has to find a person with the key. ......doesn't make sense to me that they are locked. They need to be used instantly. ( I'm not talking about this particular case, although it should have been in someone's hands in case he needed it)
They are locked up because they are very expensive pieces of equipment and as we are all aware there are some who like to come into TV and take things from our homes, cars and carts that do not belong to them. First responders with keys are alerted when a 911 call is placed.

[Bogie Shooter]

I am told that starters/ambassadors are forbidden to render any kind of medical aid. Even if the starter or ambassador is a retired MD. Can any course worker verify that?

Now who told you that?

[mulligan]

He is correct. You may consider this first hand knowledge.

[Bogie Shooter]

Here is the front page article from today's March 30, Daily Sun.
There is a lot of information that some of the uniformed posters will benefit by reading.


Villages (http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/news/villages/article_7052b904-b7bf-11e3-9c99-001a4bcf887a.html)

[al & jane]

If you use an AED on a person with a pulse you could kill them. It should only be used when there is no heartbeat.

[cquick]

Not to change the subject BUT I hate going to the square. I push my husband in a wheelchair. There are many times we are heading one direction and have to do a U turn because there is no handicap access...no way onto or off sidewalks. Are you kidding me? In a village full of old people? This community is this old and these serious problems have never been addressed? .

yes, there are several areas from the parking lots to the sidewalks that have no curb cut outs.....I understand how this person feels, been there for sure!

Yes, there are ramps at the corners of the blocks, but she might be talking about other places, and I'm not sure which square she means. Pushing a wheelchair can be frustrating sometimes.

[cquick]

If you use an AED on a person with a pulse you could kill them. It should only be used when there is no heartbeat.

yes, that's true, and she did say he was breathing. so probably the AED wasn't necessary.

[buggyone]

yes, that's true, and she did say he was breathing. so probably the AED wasn't necessary.

The AED vest device will not work if a pulse is present. The machine detects it on it's own.

[kittygilchrist]

Here is the front page article from today's March 30, Daily Sun.
There is a lot of information that some of the uniformed posters will benefit by reading.


Villages (http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/news/villages/article_7052b904-b7bf-11e3-9c99-001a4bcf887a.html)

from the above article...regarding compression only CPR...
guote:
In another shift about two and a half years ago, District Public Safety adopted a change from traditional CPR, which includes airway ventilation and mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, to chest compression-only CPR with the use of automated external defibrillators, or AEDs.

The compression-only approach not only brought a significant increase in survival rates, Geeslin said, but also encourages more residents to dive into CPR training. People are more willing to give chest compressions than to use the mouth-to-mouth method, he said.

[kittygilchrist]

If you use an AED on a person with a pulse you could kill them. It should only be used when there is no heartbeat.

A little research...here's a university based answer.
Frequently Asked Questions About AED's, Automated External Defibrillators - Learn AED (http://depts.washington.edu/learnaed/faq.php)

quote: Can the AED accidentally shock someone who doesn�t need a shock?

Not likely. The AED is designed to only shock VF. It will not shock any other heart rhythm. Nevertheless, AEDs are not perfect and in 1% of cases it may shock a rhythm other than VF. That�s why it should only be attached to a person who is unconscious and has collapsed.

[skip0358]

Dont know if anyone said this but what if the starters are not trained and if they miss use the AED they could possibly kill someone. Like one post never used it on a person that had a pulse. Everyone is quick to blame and be honest you have to be careful. Even pick some one up if they just fall could make a minor injury worse . Personally if I cant get up on my uwn call 911 and leave me on the ground unless of course there is immediate danger. Old saying Be careful what you wish for.

FYI an AED WILL NOT a person unless a shock is needed. It does a patient assessment and decides and tells you what needs to be done period.