a disturbing night...

[RayinPenn]

Finally good weather up north...after dinner took fido and the wife out for a walk...about a block away from the house and I see a gun about a foot off the curb. I think to myself a toy? I pick it up and the weight says otherwise. I recognize it as an automatic and note the hole on the business end is big. Did I say big! This isn't any BB gun ! It says 9MM on it. My sons friends family is 2 doors down i ask her to call the police.. her husband comes home (he knows more then i do) pops the clip out and i see bullets and he says there was one in the chamber.... there was talk of a young fellow dressed in cammo searching the grass...the police take the gun away...

if you say there are not too many guns .. well you are just plain wrong.

[buggyone]

Where "up north" did ths take place.

[gerryann]

I believe Pennsylvania.

[Carl in Tampa]

Finally good weather up north...after dinner took fido and the wife out for a walk...about a block away from the house and I see a gun about a foot off the curb. I think to myself a toy? I pick it up and the weight says otherwise. I recognize it as an automatic and note the hole on the business end is big. Did I say big! This isn't any BB gun ! It says 9MM on it. My sons friends family is 2 doors down i ask her to call the police.. her husband comes home (he knows more then i do) pops the clip out and i see bullets and he says there was one in the chamber.... there was talk of a young fellow dressed in cammo searching the grass...the police take the gun away...

if you say there are not too many guns .. well you are just plain wrong.

You make an astounding projection of (il)logic to think that your anecdotal experience can reasonable be projected to justify a conclusion that there are "too many guns."

Too many for what?

Too many for whom?

Too many where?

One mishandled firearm that you have stumbled across in your entire lifetime is statistically irrelevant.

You took the proper action in turning it over to the police.

:posting:

[ilovetv]

Why does the number of guns matter? It only takes one gun.....or one box cutter, to kill some people.

The assertion at the beginning is like saying there was almost a car accident out front yesterday, and thus, there are too many cars.

[wendyquat]

Some things are just dumb!

[RayinPenn]

You make an astounding projection of (il)logic to think that your anecdotal experience can reasonable be projected to justify a conclusion that there are "too many guns."

Too many for what?
Too many for whom?
Too many where?
One mishandled firearm that you have stumbled across in your entire lifetime is statistically irrelevant.

:posting:

Why there are too many guns...
I work in the what was just rated the most violent small city. I see, read about and have experienced what guns can do every day. I road that LIRR train that Collin Ferguson shot and killed all those people almost every night home. That night I missed it, caught the train behind it but Myself and 2 other commuters jumped off our stalled train and walked to the Merillon Ave. station. I saw the senseless bloody carnage in all 20 something shot 6 killed. Months later I saw the wounded try to resume a normal life.. Walking with limps and struggling to carry on.

Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are shot
Every day in the U.S., an average of 289 people are shot. Eighty-six of them die: 30 are murdered, 53 kill themselves, two die accidentally, and one is shot in a police intervention, the Brady Campaign reports.
Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns -- more than the population of St. Louis, Mo. (318,069), Pittsburgh (307,484), Cincinnati, Ohio (296,223), Newark, N.J. (277,540), and Orlando, Fla. (243,195) (sources: CDF, U.S. Census; CDC)
One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes, 87 people are killed during an average day, and 609 are killed every week. (source: CDC)

Too many guns in too many irresponsible and unbalanced hands. As scary a place as Israel can be they have gun control laws that are stricter and more intelligent then here in the states ..ours clearly are not working...

"One mishandled firearm that you have stumbled across in your entire lifetime is statistically irrelevant."
If a child picked it up and killed himself or another child would it be statistically irrelevant? You sound like Scrooge- would be ok because it would lessen the excess population?

[senior citizen]

Why there are too many guns...
I work in the what was just rated the most violent small city. I see, read about and have experienced what guns can dow very day. I road that LIRR train that Collin Fergerson shot and killed all those people almost every night home. That night I missed it, caught the train behind it but Myself and 2 other commuters jumped off our stalled train to the Merlon ave. station. I did see the bloody carnage.

Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are shot
Every day in the U.S., an average of 289 people are shot. Eighty-six of them die: 30 are murdered, 53 kill themselves, two die accidentally, and one is shot in a police intervention, the Brady Campaign reports.
Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns -- more than the population of St. Louis, Mo. (318,069), Pittsburgh (307,484), Cincinnati, Ohio (296,223), Newark, N.J. (277,540), and Orlando, Fla. (243,195) (sources: CDF, U.S. Census; CDC)
One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes, 87 people are killed during an average day, and 609 are killed every week. (source: CDC)

Too many guns in too many irresponsible and unbalanced hands. As scary a place as Israel can be they have gun control laws that are stricter and more intelligent then here in the states ..ours clearly are not working...



Thanks for posting. That gun could have been picked up by a child.
Or, it could have been found by some "unsavory character" who would know what to do with it.
With so many on illegal drugs nowadays, druggies not in their "right minds".......who knows the damage that might have been done.

I "get" your message and the alarm you felt when finding it.

Thanks for posting. We also would have been alarmed to find it.

[Golfingnut]

I wasn't going to post this, but let be fair.

Armed Man Gathers People Together in Dollar General Breakroom, but Concealed Carry Holder Saves Them (http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/125342-armed-man-gathers-people-together-dollar-general-breakroom-concealed-carry-holder-saves/)

More people need to understand how important personal protection can be.

[karostay]

You claim to have found a loaded gun and want all guns taken away
How many times have looked in you rear view mirror and have seen people on a cell phones or texting. Lets ban cell phones

[graciegirl]

Where "up north" did ths take place.



Buggy, This must be it.


http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/11/11/man-walking-dogs-finds-loaded-guns-near-santa-rosa-high-school/

[billethkid]

Let's try a different path to rationalizing who should and should not own a gun.

How about we try to determine who should and should not be allowed to get behind the wheel of a car. After all there is more damage done daily from behind the wheel, so why is there not ever a discussion about the incapable, the mentally disturbed, the drunk, the drugged and how to prohibit them from driving.......practically and politically impossible.

Ditto for guns!

[Golfingnut]

Let's try a different path to rationalizing who should and should not own a gun.

How about we try to determine who should and should not be allowed to get behind the wheel of a car. After all there is more damage done daily from behind the wheel, so why is there not ever a discussion about the incapable, the mentally disturbed, the drunk, the drugged and how to prohibit them from driving.......practically and politically impossible.

Ditto for guns!

I can't see anything wrong with this!

[buggyone]

I wasn't going to post this, but let be fair.

Armed Man Gathers People Together in Dollar General Breakroom, but Concealed Carry Holder Saves Them (http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/125342-armed-man-gathers-people-together-dollar-general-breakroom-concealed-carry-holder-saves/)

More people need to understand how important personal protection can be.

Interesting article. Now, Google the " hero" of the incident by name and find out if he was carrying legally and what charges he is facing for a possible crime.

[Golfingnut]

Interesting article. Now, Google the " hero" of the incident by name and find out if he was carrying legally and what charges he is facing for a possible crime.

There is a video on this site from the local TV Station.

Video: Gunman invades Dollar General, meets concealed carry permit holder « Hot Air (http://hotair.com/archives/2014/03/30/video-gunman-invades-dollar-general-meets-concealed-carry-permit-holder/)

[TheVillageChicken]

There are far too many keyboards.

[graciegirl]

There are far too many keyboards.



THis is the most profound statement I have heard since my mother told me not to trust some boys.

[PennBF]

I totally agree with the right to carry arms. Our founders knew the risk of disarming everyone. They were right !! One town passed a law that every citizen had to have a firearm and crime took a big dip. I have a right to protect my home and family and discount the "do gooders" as ones who have not been robbed or threatend or naive and want to be politically correct. :wave:

[Golfingnut]

I totally agree with the right to carry arms. Our founders knew the risk of disarming everyone. They were right !! One town passed a law that every citizen had to have a firearm and crime took a big dip. I have a right to protect my home and family and discount the "do gooders" as ones who have not been robbed or threatend or naive and want to be politically correct. :wave:

So do I and I do. We do however have a problem with how easy it is for convicted felons to buy guns and ammo. I know we will never stop it, but there must be ways to slow it down.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are shot

That, by the way, is .000303% of the population. And I would venture to say that the majority of those shot are shot with illegal guns.

The fact is, that laws don't prevent crimes, they only define crimes. If someone gets caught shooting someone with an illegal gun, they are going to be in big trouble for carrying an illegal gun.

I agree. We should make it more difficult or impossible for some people, ie; mentally ill, convicted felons, etc., to obtain a firearm legally. But, we should not do anything to make it difficult for law abiding citizens to exercise their God given rights.

Now, unfortunately, these two objectives are in conflict with one another. In order to prevent the wrong people from getting guns, we need to check to make sure that someone buying a gun doesn't fall into one of those categories. But we really should do what we can to minimize the difficulty for law abiding citizens to get a firearm. I think that Florida does that pretty well. Massachusetts, where I come from originally,takes away people's rights for no good reason.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

A couple of things about some comments that have been posted here. The OP said that the handgun that he found was an automatic. That is simply not true. automatic weapons are illegal and I don't believe that there are any automatic handguns. It was simply a semi automatic 9mm.

Secondly, people like to talk about how easy it is to get firearms today. In fact quite the opposite is true. It was much easier to get guns fifty years ago than it is today. You could order semi automatic guns from the Sear Roebuck catalog in the 1950s. It has never been more difficult to legally get a gun in the history of this country. There have never been more gun laws than there are today. Yet, we are seeing more gun violence than ever before. What we are doing is not working. The answer, obviously, is not to make more gun laws. We have been doing that and the problem is getting worse. More gun laws have not helped.

[Golfingnut]

A couple of things about some comments that have been posted here. The OP said that the handgun that he found was an automatic. That is simply not true. automatic weapons are illegal and I don't believe that there are any automatic handguns. It was simply a semi automatic 9mm.

Secondly, people like to talk about how easy it is to get firearms today. In fact quite the opposite is true. It was much easier to get guns fifty years ago than it is today. You could order semi automatic guns from the Sear Roebuck catalog in the 1950s. It has never been more difficult to legally get a gun in the history of this country. There have never been more gun laws than there are today. Yet, we are seeing more gun violence than ever before. What we are doing is not working. The answer, obviously, is not to make more gun laws. We have been doing that and the problem is getting worse. More gun laws have not helped.

Good points.
:crap2:

[DDoug]

If you try to remove guns that would be a waist of time , illegal drugs people still get them prohibition people still their booze. People want something bad enough they will get it.Especially the bad guy and then the good guys are left defenseless. No keep the guns for sale because the good guy will go through the process to get them.

[Golfingnut]

LOL. Also good point.

[Steve9930]

Finally good weather up north...after dinner took fido and the wife out for a walk...about a block away from the house and I see a gun about a foot off the curb. I think to myself a toy? I pick it up and the weight says otherwise. I recognize it as an automatic and note the hole on the business end is big. Did I say big! This isn't any BB gun ! It says 9MM on it. My sons friends family is 2 doors down i ask her to call the police.. her husband comes home (he knows more then i do) pops the clip out and i see bullets and he says there was one in the chamber.... there was talk of a young fellow dressed in cammo searching the grass...the police take the gun away...

if you say there are not too many guns .. well you are just plain wrong.

I don't believe it has anything to do with the amount of guns. It has a lot to do with people that own guns that are negligent in their ownership. You cannot legislate common sense.

[Steve9930]

A couple of things about some comments that have been posted here. The OP said that the handgun that he found was an automatic. That is simply not true. automatic weapons are illegal and I don't believe that there are any automatic handguns. It was simply a semi automatic 9mm.

Secondly, people like to talk about how easy it is to get firearms today. In fact quite the opposite is true. It was much easier to get guns fifty years ago than it is today. You could order semi automatic guns from the Sear Roebuck catalog in the 1950s. It has never been more difficult to legally get a gun in the history of this country. There have never been more gun laws than there are today. Yet, we are seeing more gun violence than ever before. What we are doing is not working. The answer, obviously, is not to make more gun laws. We have been doing that and the problem is getting worse. More gun laws have not helped.

Just need to enforce the ones on the books.

[Steve9930]

Why there are too many guns...
I work in the what was just rated the most violent small city. I see, read about and have experienced what guns can do every day. I road that LIRR train that Collin Ferguson shot and killed all those people almost every night home. That night I missed it, caught the train behind it but Myself and 2 other commuters jumped off our stalled train and walked to the Merillon Ave. station. I saw the senseless bloody carnage in all 20 something shot 6 killed. Months later I saw the wounded try to resume a normal life.. Walking with limps and struggling to carry on.

Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are shot
Every day in the U.S., an average of 289 people are shot. Eighty-six of them die: 30 are murdered, 53 kill themselves, two die accidentally, and one is shot in a police intervention, the Brady Campaign reports.
Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns -- more than the population of St. Louis, Mo. (318,069), Pittsburgh (307,484), Cincinnati, Ohio (296,223), Newark, N.J. (277,540), and Orlando, Fla. (243,195) (sources: CDF, U.S. Census; CDC)
One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes, 87 people are killed during an average day, and 609 are killed every week. (source: CDC)

Too many guns in too many irresponsible and unbalanced hands. As scary a place as Israel can be they have gun control laws that are stricter and more intelligent then here in the states ..ours clearly are not working...

"One mishandled firearm that you have stumbled across in your entire lifetime is statistically irrelevant."
If a child picked it up and killed himself or another child would it be statistically irrelevant? You sound like Scrooge- would be ok because it would lessen the excess population?

If we banded guns today it would not make a difference. What you describe has nothing to do with guns. It has to do with attitude. This is why banning anything never works. People get what they want and do what they have set out to do regardless of the law.

[Steve9930]

I don't believe I would have picked up the weapon as it could have been used in a crime. Also the best thing to do was report it to the police which was done. My advice when you find something like this is, keep people clear, try to get someone to call the police if you do not have cell phone. Only move the item if it has become a danger to others, if you do not know how it works then you could accidently discharge the weapon. Some of these semi-automatics will go off if they are dropped. If it is a toy then no harm done. No one will fault you for doing the correct thing.

As for the debate on to have or not to have there is not enough storage on the website's computer for the debate. AS for my personal opinion, I'll debate controls on hand guns but don't you dare touch my long gun.

[Golfingnut]

I don't believe I would have picked up the weapon as it could have been used in a crime. Also the best thing to do was report it to the police which was done. My advice when you find something like this is, keep people clear, try to get someone to call the police if you do not have cell phone. Only move the item if it has become a danger to others, if you do not know how it works then you could accidently discharge the weapon. Some of these semi-automatics will go off if they are dropped. If it is a toy then no harm done. No one will fault you for doing the correct thing.

As for the debate on to have or not to have there is not enough storage on the website's computer for the debate. AS for my personal opinion, I'll debate controls on hand guns but don't you dare touch my long gun.

I say don't you dare touch my long or short guns. I was handed my 22 single shot rife at 11 and my 410 break down single shot shotgun at 13. Guns have been a significant part of my life I would be lost without them.

However, I hope everyday someone can put a dent in the criminals acquiring any gun. I admit, I do not hav the solution.

[Steve9930]

I say don't you dare touch my long or short guns. I was handed my 22 single shot rife at 11 and my 410 break down single shot shotgun at 13. Guns have been a significant part of my life I would be lost without them.

However, I hope everyday someone can put a dent in the criminals acquiring any gun. I admit, I do not hav the solution.

I've owned guns all my life also. I personally would entertain an argument to make pistols more difficult to obtain but never banned from the average citizen to own. However when it comes to the long gun I draw the line. When the second amendment to the constitution was written it was the long gun that kept the respect of Government versus the people. You would never support a rebellion with a 9 mm pistol. Those that argue that the average citizen should be disarmed should only look at history to see how well that works out. If you think evil men do not plot any more just watch the evening news.

[Golfingnut]

I've owned guns all my life also. I personally would entertain an argument to make pistols more difficult to obtain but never banned from the average citizen to own. However when it comes to the long gun I draw the line. When the second amendment to the constitution was written it was the long gun that kept the respect of Government versus the people. You would never support a rebellion with a 9 mm pistol. Those that argue that the average citizen should be disarmed should only look at history to see how well that works out. If you think evil men do not plot any more just watch the evening news.

100% Agree with your post. I hope for a genius to come up with an idea to at least cut down on the amount of hand guns in the hands of convicted criminals, that would be a start. :crap2:

[RayinPenn]

Actually i did not advocate having all guns taken away.. I advocated we adopt laws similiar to those on Israel...

[RayinPenn]

Let's try a different path to rationalizing who should and should not own a gun.

How about we try to determine who should and should not be allowed to get behind the wheel of a car. After all there is more damage done daily from behind the wheel, so why is there not ever a discussion about the incapable, the mentally disturbed, the drunk, the drugged and how to prohibit them from driving.......practically and politically impossible.

Ditto for guns!
Actually you must pass 2 tests to drive a car... the same is not required to own a gun.

[RayinPenn]

1) yes the weapon was an automatic as opposed to a revolver.
2) No where did I advocate taking away anyones rights ...just plane common sense
a) waiting period
b) training required
c) all guns sold only with locks
d) your unlocked gun stolen, and used in crime you do the time...

[Steve9930]

1) yes the weapon was an automatic as opposed to a revolver.
2) No where did I advocate taking away anyones rights ...just plane common sense
a) waiting period
b) training required
c) all guns sold only with locks
d) your unlocked gun stolen, and used in crime you do the time...

Hand guns come in two types: Revolvers and Semi-Automatics
There is a waiting period if you do not have a permit.
I could go for mandatory training. Military service serves as training also.
All new guns are now sold with locks in most cases already.
You cannot put someone in jail because your stolen gun was used in a crime (Unconstitutional)
All bad laws today usually seemed like common sense at the time.

PS: Semi-automatic pistols are some times called auto-loaders.

[Shimpy]

[QUOTE=RayinPenn;858328]1) yes the weapon was an automatic as opposed to a revolver.

NO, an automatic would fire until empty by just holding back the trigger. A semi-automatic must have the trigger pulled each time to fire. You won't ever find an automatic pistol. A revolver will also fire each time the trigger is pulled back. Gun haters always get it wrong. They are against these mechanical things which they have no idea how they work.

[Steve9930]

[QUOTE=RayinPenn;858328]1) yes the weapon was an automatic as opposed to a revolver.

NO, an automatic would fire until empty by just holding back the trigger. A semi-automatic must have the trigger pulled each time to fire. You won't ever find an automatic pistol. A revolver will also fire each time the trigger is pulled back. Gun haters always get it wrong. They are against these mechanical things which they have no idea how they work.

There is a 9 mm Uzi (Probably spelled wrong) which I believe is manufactured in full auto. I would classify it as a pistol.

[Shimpy]

[quote=Shimpy;858353]

There is a 9 mm Uzi (Probably spelled wrong) which I believe is manufactured in full auto. I would classify it as a pistol.

Yes, a machine pistol, but what are the chances of finding one laying in the street?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzi Does that really look like a pistol to you?

The average citizen seeing a gun that isn't a revolver will be 99.999% times a semi-auto.

[Steve9930]

[quote=Steve9930;858356]

Yes, a machine pistol, but what are the chances of finding one laying in the street?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzi Does that really look like a pistol to you?

The average citizen seeing a gun that isn't a revolver will be 99.999% times a semi-auto.

I do believe it is classified in the pistol category. No I doubt you'll find one in the street but you never know now days what is in the street.....:loco:

[Carl in Tampa]

Okay, folks............

Let's take a little break for a brief review on firearms.

Clearly the original poster does not understand the distinction between automatic firearms and semi-automatic (or auto-loading) firearms.

Since he did not find a revolver, or a single-shot handgun it was probably a semi-automatic. That means it fires one time, and only one time for each pull of the trigger.

However, a couple of posters have stated that there are no full automatic pistols. This, too, is incorrect. I invite you to look at the line of "broomhandle" Mausers. This pistol comes in several versions. It is a very versatile pistol.

There is a model which has a selector switch which will permit it to be fired either semi-automatically or as a fully automatic pistol where one pull of the trigger, when held back, will fire several rounds or even empty the magazine.

There are models which have built in magazines which are loaded from the top with a "clip" of cartridges. There are models that accept loaded magazines.

It was commonplace for some Mausers to be carried in wooden holsters which could be attached to the handle of the pistol as a stock so the gun could be fired from the shoulder.

Rather than try to post a series of photos, I am leaving a link to images of the broomhandle Mauser. You may see some with a red 9 engraved on the handle. These were converted from their original lower cartridge size to 9MM.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mauser+machine+pistol&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS571US571&espv=2&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=VThDU42JAanN0gHppoDADA&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=800&bih=499

Further, surely you have heard about many of the "gangster" machine pistols, such as the MAC-10. There are actually many more. In fact, dozens more. See Category:Machine pistols - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Machine_pistols)


Now, moving on............ the Uzi, and many others on the list linked above, is entirely too heavy to be used effectively as a one-handed pistol. It weighs 7 and three quarters pounds. And with a standard 32 round magazine it is entirely too bulky to haul around on your person. During my career in the Secret Service the Uzi was our intermediate range shoulder weapon.

That's all. Just thought I'd clear up a little confusion on firearms nomenclature.

:ho:

[Carl in Tampa]

Why there are too many guns...
I work in the what was just rated the most violent small city. I see, read about and have experienced what guns can do every day. I road that LIRR train that Collin Ferguson shot and killed all those people almost every night home. That night I missed it, caught the train behind it but Myself and 2 other commuters jumped off our stalled train and walked to the Merillon Ave. station. I saw the senseless bloody carnage in all 20 something shot 6 killed. Months later I saw the wounded try to resume a normal life.. Walking with limps and struggling to carry on.

Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are shot
Every day in the U.S., an average of 289 people are shot. Eighty-six of them die: 30 are murdered, 53 kill themselves, two die accidentally, and one is shot in a police intervention, the Brady Campaign reports.
Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns -- more than the population of St. Louis, Mo. (318,069), Pittsburgh (307,484), Cincinnati, Ohio (296,223), Newark, N.J. (277,540), and Orlando, Fla. (243,195) (sources: CDF, U.S. Census; CDC)
One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes, 87 people are killed during an average day, and 609 are killed every week. (source: CDC)

Too many guns in too many irresponsible and unbalanced hands. As scary a place as Israel can be they have gun control laws that are stricter and more intelligent then here in the states ..ours clearly are not working...

"One mishandled firearm that you have stumbled across in your entire lifetime is statistically irrelevant."
If a child picked it up and killed himself or another child would it be statistically irrelevant? You sound like Scrooge- would be ok because it would lessen the excess population?

You appear to have all the Brady anti-gun lobby figures close at hand, but as Dr. Boogie points out, the incidence of shootings you list is .000303% of the population. Clearly, every incident is tragic, but there are much higher figures for many classes of avoidable deaths.

You speak of the LIRR shooting with 20 shot and 6 killed. I point you to the Luby's Restaurant massacre where 50 people were shot and 26 were killed. Would you like to know why the death toll was so high? It was because a highly trained pistol marksman, Suzanna Hupp, had left her handgun in her car and was unable to engage the killer in a gunfight.

In response to the massacre, the Texas Legislature in 1995 passed a shall-issue gun law, which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License.

The law had been campaigned for by Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the time of the massacre where both of her parents were shot and killed. She later expressed regret about deciding to leave her gun in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws; during the shootings, she reached for her weapon but then remembered that it was "a hundred feet away in my car." She testified across the country in support of concealed handgun laws, and was elected to the Texas House of Representatives in 1996. The law was signed by then-Governor George W. Bush.

HERE'S THE POINT. IF THERE HAD BEEN MORE (LEGAL) GUNS ON THE LIRR CAR THAT NIGHT IT IS LIKELY THAT MANY OF THOSE UNNECESSARY DEATHS AND WOUNDINGS COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED.

.

[Steve9930]

Okay, folks............

Let's take a little break for a brief review on firearms.

Clearly the original poster does not understand the distinction between automatic firearms and semi-automatic (or auto-loading) firearms.

Since he did not find a revolver, or a single-shot handgun it was probably a semi-automatic. That means it fires one time, and only one time for each pull of the trigger.

However, a couple of posters have stated that there are no full automatic pistols. This, too, is incorrect. I invite you to look at the line of "broomhandle" Mausers. This pistol comes in several versions. It is a very versatile pistol.

There is a model which has a selector switch which will permit it to be fired either semi-automatically or as a fully automatic pistol where one pull of the trigger, when held back, will fire several rounds or even empty the magazine.

There are models which have built in magazines which are loaded from the top with a "clip" of cartridges. There are models that accept loaded magazines.

It was commonplace for some Mausers to be carried in wooden holsters which could be attached to the handle of the pistol as a stock so the gun could be fired from the shoulder.

Rather than try to post a series of photos, I am leaving a link to images of the broomhandle Mauser. You may see some with a red 9 engraved on the handle. These were converted from their original lower cartridge size to 9MM.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mauser+machine+pistol&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS571US571&espv=2&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=VThDU42JAanN0gHppoDADA&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=800&bih=499

Further, surely you have heard about many of the "gangster" machine pistols, such as the MAC-10. There are actually many more. In fact, dozens more. See Category:Machine pistols - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Machine_pistols)


Now, moving on............ the Uzi, and many others on the list linked above, is entirely too heavy to be used effectively as a one-handed pistol. It weighs 7 and three quarters pounds. And with a standard 32 round magazine it is entirely too bulky to haul around on your person. During my career in the Secret Service the Uzi was our intermediate range shoulder weapon.

That's all. Just thought I'd clear up a little confusion on firearms nomenclature.

:ho:

Thanks for the info.

[Leo G.]

Banning firearms will only keep the honest people honest. Those that want them will get them regardless of any law.

[buggyone]

I just completed re-reading all 5 pages of this thread.

No one in any post was advocating the banning of guns!

I also reiterate my statement that if someone wants to legally carry a pistol in The Villages, there is nothing to stop them from doing it. It is 100% unnecessary and probably a danger to yourself and others but if you do it all legally, fine with me.

Someone posted to me that I must stay in The Villages all the time and never venture out to Wildwood or Orlando so I would not feel the need to be armed. Well, I certainly never would go to certain parts of Wildwood or Orlando at any time of the day nor would I walk their streets at night. I have no need to do that. I do go to Winter Park at night and it is a great place and a safe place - as long as you stay in the well travelled areas. Use common sense and you do not need to carry a pistol - my thought.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Actually you must pass 2 tests to drive a car... the same is not required to own a gun.

Driving a car is not a right protected by our constitution.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Okay, folks............

Let's take a little break for a brief review on firearms.

Clearly the original poster does not understand the distinction between automatic firearms and semi-automatic (or auto-loading) firearms.

Since he did not find a revolver, or a single-shot handgun it was probably a semi-automatic. That means it fires one time, and only one time for each pull of the trigger.

However, a couple of posters have stated that there are no full automatic pistols. This, too, is incorrect. I invite you to look at the line of "broomhandle" Mausers. This pistol comes in several versions. It is a very versatile pistol.

There is a model which has a selector switch which will permit it to be fired either semi-automatically or as a fully automatic pistol where one pull of the trigger, when held back, will fire several rounds or even empty the magazine.

There are models which have built in magazines which are loaded from the top with a "clip" of cartridges. There are models that accept loaded magazines.

It was commonplace for some Mausers to be carried in wooden holsters which could be attached to the handle of the pistol as a stock so the gun could be fired from the shoulder.

Rather than try to post a series of photos, I am leaving a link to images of the broomhandle Mauser. You may see some with a red 9 engraved on the handle. These were converted from their original lower cartridge size to 9MM.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mauser+machine+pistol&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS571US571&espv=2&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=VThDU42JAanN0gHppoDADA&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=800&bih=499

Further, surely you have heard about many of the "gangster" machine pistols, such as the MAC-10. There are actually many more. In fact, dozens more. See Category:Machine pistols - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Machine_pistols)


Now, moving on............ the Uzi, and many others on the list linked above, is entirely too heavy to be used effectively as a one-handed pistol. It weighs 7 and three quarters pounds. And with a standard 32 round magazine it is entirely too bulky to haul around on your person. During my career in the Secret Service the Uzi was our intermediate range shoulder weapon.

That's all. Just thought I'd clear up a little confusion on firearms nomenclature.

:ho:

And unless I'm mistaken, Uzis and Mausers along with all other forms of fully automatic weapons are banned in this country under federal law. So why are they even a part of this discussion?

[wendyquat]

So do I and I do. We do however have a problem with how easy it is for convicted felons to buy guns and ammo. I know we will never stop it, but there must be ways to slow it down.

I understand they have a class in prison entitled, "How to Get a Gun When You are Released"!

[2BNTV]

As comedian Chris Rock says:

"We don't need gun control, we need bullet control". :jester:

Just charge $10,000 for one bullet. Is someone wants to kill people, they will need to save, a lot of money. :D

[TexaninVA]

Why there are too many guns...
I work in the what was just rated the most violent small city. I see, read about and have experienced what guns can do every day. I road that LIRR train that Collin Ferguson shot and killed all those people almost every night home. That night I missed it, caught the train behind it but Myself and 2 other commuters jumped off our stalled train and walked to the Merillon Ave. station. I saw the senseless bloody carnage in all 20 something shot 6 killed. Months later I saw the wounded try to resume a normal life.. Walking with limps and struggling to carry on.

Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are shot
Every day in the U.S., an average of 289 people are shot. Eighty-six of them die: 30 are murdered, 53 kill themselves, two die accidentally, and one is shot in a police intervention, the Brady Campaign reports.
Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns -- more than the population of St. Louis, Mo. (318,069), Pittsburgh (307,484), Cincinnati, Ohio (296,223), Newark, N.J. (277,540), and Orlando, Fla. (243,195) (sources: CDF, U.S. Census; CDC)
One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes, 87 people are killed during an average day, and 609 are killed every week. (source: CDC)

Too many guns in too many irresponsible and unbalanced hands. As scary a place as Israel can be they have gun control laws that are stricter and more intelligent then here in the states ..ours clearly are not working...

"One mishandled firearm that you have stumbled across in your entire lifetime is statistically irrelevant."
If a child picked it up and killed himself or another child would it be statistically irrelevant? You sound like Scrooge- would be ok because it would lessen the excess population?

Ray ... out of curiosity ... do you own any guns at all?

[casita37]

You claim to have found a loaded gun and want all guns taken away
How many times have looked in you rear view mirror and have seen people on a cell phones or texting. Lets ban cell phones

Not trying to change the subject, but cell phones are, and should be, banned whiled driving in many states, including FL.

[BobnBev]

Why there are too many guns...
I work in the what was just rated the most violent small city. I see, read about and have experienced what guns can do every day. I road that LIRR train that Collin Ferguson shot and killed all those people almost every night home. That night I missed it, caught the train behind it but Myself and 2 other commuters jumped off our stalled train and walked to the Merillon Ave. station. I saw the senseless bloody carnage in all 20 something shot 6 killed. Months later I saw the wounded try to resume a normal life.. Walking with limps and struggling to carry on.

Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are shot
Every day in the U.S., an average of 289 people are shot. Eighty-six of them die: 30 are murdered, 53 kill themselves, two die accidentally, and one is shot in a police intervention, the Brady Campaign reports.
Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns -- more than the population of St. Louis, Mo. (318,069), Pittsburgh (307,484), Cincinnati, Ohio (296,223), Newark, N.J. (277,540), and Orlando, Fla. (243,195) (sources: CDF, U.S. Census; CDC)
One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes, 87 people are killed during an average day, and 609 are killed every week. (source: CDC)

Too many guns in too many irresponsible and unbalanced hands. As scary a place as Israel can be they have gun control laws that are stricter and more intelligent then here in the states ..ours clearly are not working...

"One mishandled firearm that you have stumbled across in your entire lifetime is statistically irrelevant."
If a child picked it up and killed himself or another child would it be statistically irrelevant? You sound like Scrooge- would be ok because it would lessen the excess population?

Too many guns in too many irresponsible and unbalanced hands.
That is the crux of the problem, and should be addressed.

[Shimpy]

Use common sense and you do not need to carry a pistol - my thought.

You could also use common sense and cancel your homeowners insurance. Drive very carefully and cancel your auto insurance too. A firearm IS an insurance policy and is something you hope you'll never need but is there if you do.

[Carl in Tampa]

And unless I'm mistaken, Uzis and Mausers along with all other forms of fully automatic weapons are banned in this country under federal law. So why are they even a part of this discussion?

Fully automatic firearms are not banned in the United States. There are millions of personally owned fully automatic firearms here.

Their ownership and transfer of ownership is closely regulated. In 1934 the National Firearms Act was passed in response to the use of automatic weapons by criminals. The act imposed a $200 "transfer tax" on the transfer of ownership of fully automatic firearms and provided for registration of their ownership. There are too many other facets to the act to discuss them all here, but the fact is that there are millions of legally owned fully automatic weapons in the U.S.

In addition to the "gangster" style weapons of the 1930s, many fully automatic "war trophies" were brought into the country after WWII. They generally fell through the cracks with regard to being detected, so several decades ago the government declared an "amnesty" and allowed all holders of fully automatic weapons of any kind an opportunity to register and retain them.

That is why there are so many of them still available. To obtain one you would have to pay both the astronomical price the current owner would want and the $200 transfer tax to the government, as well as registering your ownership with the government.

And, even more to the point, they are part of this discussion because the OP originally called the pistol he found to be an "automatic" and someone else pointed out that it was probably a semi-automatic.

And, further although they are held illegally, there are many unregistered fully automatic firearms still held and being used by the criminal element in our country.

.

[Carl in Tampa]

"One mishandled firearm that you have stumbled across in your entire lifetime is statistically irrelevant."
If a child picked it up and killed himself or another child would it be statistically irrelevant? You sound like Scrooge- would be ok because it would lessen the excess population?

Shame on you for a despicable ad hominem attack.

Further, your "what if" could be extended to almost any circumstance.

What if........... a child got a butcher knife out of the kitchen and killed another child?
What if........... a child fell in the family swimming pool and drowned?
What if........... a child was standing behind the family car and dad backed up over him?
And so on ad infinitum.........

You surely don't claim there are too many butcher knives, swimming pools or family cars.

-------------------

As a retired cop I can also tell you that you mishandled the situation. You should not have picked up and handled the pistol.

What if.......... it had just been used in a murder a few blocks away and the murderer threw it out his car window when he thought he was about to be stopped by the police? Maybe the young man in camo seen searching the area had returned to retrieve it.

Your handling of the pistol could have obliterated all of the fingerprints of the murderer. Then, even if the gun could be linked to the crime by ballistics, it could not necessarily be linked to the murderer.

--------------------

One misused and/or mishandled gun cannot be projected into a generality that "there are too many guns."

If there were only ten guns in the United States and you found one beside the road that wouldn't mean there were too many guns in the country, just that one was mishandled.

The same is true if there are 270 million guns. It just means that the one you found was mishandled.

.

[Sueclark]

Thank you for posting. We are about to go back to Boston, where guns are rampant. We need to be diligent. Thank you also for being a concerned citizen. Many people might have just "not bothered." People in that neighborhood are lucky to have you there.

[ilovetv]

We taught our kids as preschoolers to never pick up anything unknown found on the ground, because you don't know what it contains or has been used for or if it has jagged metal or glass edges that could cut or burn somebody handling it. At the time, there were mailboxes getting blown up in our suburban neighborhood, and the perps were using soda bottles and other things to make pipe bombs to blow up mailboxes. Neighborhood kids would occasionally find remnants of a small pipe bomb and all parents warned any kids in sight not to touch anything they found. The kids were also taught these precautions in preschool public safety classes taught by law enforcement, and also in grade school in safety presentations/classes.

Also, they understood at an early age not to grab something that could have been used in a crime, putting their fingerprints on it or muddling up the fingerprints of a criminal who needs to be caught and prosecuted.

The claim of "too many guns" sounds like a purely ideological thing, against the 2nd amendment and for an unarmed populace.

The incident described sounds like: "A drunk on a golf cart nearly hit and killed himself and us last night. There are too many golf carts in TV."

It just does not compute.

[kittygilchrist]

Shame on you for a despicable ad hominem attack.

Further, your "what if" could be extended to almost any circumstance.

What if........... a child got a butcher knife out of the kitchen and killed another child?
What if........... a child fell in the family swimming pool and drowned?
What if........... a child was standing behind the family car and dad backed up over him?
And so on ad infinitum.........

You surely don't claim there are too many butcher knives, swimming pools or family cars.

-------------------

As a retired cop I can also tell you that you mishandled the situation. You should not have picked up and handled the pistol.

What if.......... it had just been used in a murder a few blocks away and the murderer threw it out his car window when he thought he was about to be stopped by the police? Maybe the young man in camo seen searching the area had returned to retrieve it.

Your handling of the pistol could have obliterated all of the fingerprints of the murderer. Then, even if the gun could be linked to the crime by ballistics, it could not necessarily be linked to the murderer.

--------------------

One misused and/or mishandled gun cannot be projected into a generality that "there are too many guns."

If there were only ten guns in the United States and you found one beside the road that wouldn't mean there were too many guns in the country, just that one was mishandled.

The same is true if there are 270 million guns. It just means that the one you found was mishandled.

.
hats off Carl. I always know you know what you are talking about.
:ho::BigApplause::police::police::police:
:bigbow::MOJE_whot::clap2::highfive::thumbup:

edited to correct...I should have said "What you talk about you truly know about"...that separates you.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Fully automatic firearms are not banned in the United States. There are millions of personally owned fully automatic firearms here.

Their ownership and transfer of ownership is closely regulated. In 1934 the National Firearms Act was passed in response to the use of automatic weapons by criminals. The act imposed a $200 "transfer tax" on the transfer of ownership of fully automatic firearms and provided for registration of their ownership. There are too many other facets to the act to discuss them all here, but the fact is that there are millions of legally owned fully automatic weapons in the U.S.

In addition to the "gangster" style weapons of the 1930s, many fully automatic "war trophies" were brought into the country after WWII. They generally fell through the cracks with regard to being detected, so several decades ago the government declared an "amnesty" and allowed all holders of fully automatic weapons of any kind an opportunity to register and retain them.

That is why there are so many of them still available. To obtain one you would have to pay both the astronomical price the current owner would want and the $200 transfer tax to the government, as well as registering your ownership with the government.

And, even more to the point, they are part of this discussion because the OP originally called the pistol he found to be an "automatic" and someone else pointed out that it was probably a semi-automatic.

And, further although they are held illegally, there are many unregistered fully automatic firearms still held and being used by the criminal element in our country.

.

That is true. I shouldn't have said it that way. There are some circumstances where private citizens are allowed to own fully automatic weapons but it is extremely difficult and as you point out, expensive to qualify for one.

I don't know how many illegal ones there are, but what law is going to change that?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Thank you for posting. We are about to go back to Boston, where guns are rampant. We need to be diligent. Thank you also for being a concerned citizen. Many people might have just "not bothered." People in that neighborhood are lucky to have you there.

Guns are rampant in Boston? I'm from Boston and as I recall we in Massachusetts have some of the strictest gun laws in the country. It is extremely difficult to get a gun in Massachusetts. Chiefs of police are given extremely wide latitude in taking away people constitutional rights. There are far more guns here in Florida.

Then again, if guns are indeed rampant in Boston as you assert, then it just goes to show that more gun laws do not work. Like I said, Mass has more of the most strict anti gun laws in the country.

[MikeV]

All this makes my head swim. If you want to take away my right to own and carry a firearm then change the Constitution. Good luck with that. Until then this is all a bunch of biased talk one way or the other. Just let it rest will you!

[buggyone]

All this makes my head swim. If you want to take away my right to own and carry a firearm then change the Constitution. Good luck with that. Until then this is all a bunch of biased talk one way or the other. Just let it rest will you!

There was not one post on this thread that advocated taking away guns or carry permits.