Pittsburgh knifing and possible causes?

[billethkid]

I found the media coverage yesterday by CNN and Fox to be very different from other incidents where a gun was involved. During the gun incidents they would stay on the story all day long mindlessly repeating the little they knew until there was a new hint of something different to report.

Yesterday it was more a breaking news report then back to regular programming until there was more to report.

I was just wondering why.....just an academic question and do not expect an answer. Opinions welcome.

Secondly I do firmly believe (always have) that television, movies and video games are the instructors for methods.

Maybe it is just a coincidence but there is a television series called "The Following" where the weapon and method of choice for individual and mass attacks is the knife. We have stopped watching as the incidences of purposeful random killing on this program is just too much to be remotely considered entertainment.

Our youth has been exposed to methods and levels of violence on a regular and ongoing basis for at least two generations now. The acceptance of violence labeled as entertainment is very much a contributor to how people think about and accept violence. The education of methods is and should be of concern.

However it has gone on for so long now and accepted by the public that I know I am part of the minority that would happily contribute to what ever it takes to "go back" to the more implied violence than the technology, special effects sensationalizing of violence used today.

[Golfingnut]

Simple, gun control is enflaming, other weapons like knives is not. Maybe guns don't kill people, rather people with weapons kill people.:shrug:

[Jaggy]

Se
Yes, Yes, Yes.
First thing I thought of when I heard of this stabbing.. The Following.. I quit watching it , disturbing theme of knife attacks on that show.

[Bay Kid]

So true. Life used to be so simple when the evening news was on only once a day and Petticoat Junction and Gunsmoke were the hard core tv shows.

[Taltarzac725]

Doubt if watching The Following prompted this boy to go on a stabbing spree. We really all have to do more about stopping bullying and the like. Not sure what we could do from here in the Villages. http://www.stopbullying.gov/ http://stopbullyingnow.com/

My mother was sick when I was in her womb and I had a lot of developmental problems like speech and coordination problems. So, I was quite bullied all through elementary and some of junior high school. I have always been good at finding someone to counter the bully in my life. Mrs. Barbara Mitchell at Earl Wooster High School in Reno, Nevada and her infusion of a love of books was probably my best resource for that. Another period of my life with various bullies involved was while I was in Law School. I had had a good friend-- but did not really acknowledge her enough in law school in Julie Rose- the Student Body President at the University of Minnesota Law School. Maybe, if more people reach out to others to see what they could do to help others out?

If that boy had someone like Mrs. Mitchell or Julie Rose in his life, maybe he never would have picked up those knives?

I am sure the books some of us read in Mrs. Mitchell's English class were very violent. I believe I read Crime and Punishment, The Lord of the Flies and Anna Karenina around then. Not to mention how very violent much of the Bible is.

[Golfingnut]

We can help by forwarded the link you provided to our children and grandchildren. Thanks for that.

[billethkid]

the books of old no matter how violent they may be will never equate to the mass media of today and the detailed methods and glorification of killing individuals or mass murder.

These very graphic teachings are allowed and are a part of our lives. A continuous exposure to varying graphic methods and means and ease of availability in far too many aspects of what is loosely called entertainment.

Brain washing is a method based on continual repeating and exposure.....which is what our loosely termed entertainment does.

Violence in the books of old and entertainment of days gone by was implied and much was left to one's imagination. This has been replaced with very detailed, graphic, technically enhanced animation, up close and personal. Nothing is left to the imagination.

The age that this new accepted level of violence is allowed to view has deteriorated

[Taltarzac725]

the books of old no matter how violent they may be will never equate to the mass media of today and the detailed methods and glorification of killing individuals or mass murder.

These very graphic teachings are allowed and are a part of our lives. A continuous exposure to varying graphic methods and means and ease of availability in far too many aspects of what is loosely called entertainment.

Brain washing is a method based on continual repeating and exposure.....which is what our loosely termed entertainment does.

Violence in the books of old and entertainment of days gone by was implied and much was left to one's imagination. This has been replaced with very detailed, graphic, technically enhanced animation, up close and personal. Nothing is left to the imagination.

The age that this new accepted level of violence is allowed to view has deteriorated

Maybe, we will learn about the viewing habits of this kid? It would be interesting and possibly instructive?

I know a lot of domestic violence and bullying occurred while we had shows like Gunsmoke and I Love Lucy and other quite mild in terms of sex and violent shows.

[PennBF]

Does anyone really wonder "why" our youth are violent today? All we have to do is look at the murders that are shown on TV, the violent games that are produced, the media highlighting violence, etc.etc. We have made them insensitive to killing, to death, to pain of others, etc. We are now suprised that they are not sensitive to killing and the pain of others. The real concern is can we turn this around? There are no more restrictions on the terrible killings that are produced in the movies, TV, newspapers, injured in wars, etc.etc. There is no more fear of the police and authority of teachers have been restricted. We cannot act surprised as our silence has produced these results. :bowdown:

[ilovetv]

The smaller amount of media coverage on the school stabbing spree was probably due to the events covered in TX yesterday that included a speech for Ft. Hood....

Bush greets Obama at Houston airport - Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/President-s-Houston-visit-likely-to-cause-5389200.php#photo-6143114)

[billethkid]

The smaller amount of media coverage on the school stabbing spree was probably due to the events covered in TX yesterday that included a speech for Ft. Hood....

Bush greets Obama at Houston airport - Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/President-s-Houston-visit-likely-to-cause-5389200.php#photo-6143114)

That could be it....that would just mean they have their priorities wrong....we see Obama 20 times a day.

[Carl in Tampa]

The original post opens two avenues of discussion regarding the knife attack:
1. Why wasn't there more extensive news coverage of the event, and
2. What was the possible reason that the boy struck out in this manner.

I think Golfingnut is correct on the first question. If the boy had used a gun it would have been an opportunity for the anti-gun lobby to flood the airways with anti-gun rhetoric, which would have been answered by pro-gun advocates, using up a lot of air time. No one can reasonably propose the banning of kitchen knives, the reported weapons in this case, so there was no resulting debate.

We don't really have much to go on regarding the second question except for one brief statement the boy is reported to have uttered, "I want to die."

In my training to be a Hostage Negotiator I was taught that most suicidal people arrive at the point of acting out their wish when they reach the point of feeling hopeless and helpless. This feeling can come to a person from a variety of circumstances, and the initial report in this case is that the boy was bullied. We must wait for more information before assigning a motive for this attack.

.

[Cathy H]

Guns kill people, knives kill people, clubs kill people, car wrecks kill people, overdosing drugs kills people. its people vs. people, nothing new since Bible times.

[Taltarzac725]

Guns kill people, knives kill people, clubs kill people, car wrecks kill people, overdosing drugs kills people. its people vs. people, nothing new since Bible times.

Unless you see movies like Noah and Dogma. These certainly put a whole new spin on the Bible and how people were killed during that time period.

David and Goliath--- A slingshot is very dangerous weapon but it would seem to take great skill in working with one.

This Pittsburgh kid seemed to go for the easiest to use weapons. It will be interesting to see why he did this if there even is a real reason other than rage directed at his high school.

[Steve9930]

The original post opens two avenues of discussion regarding the knife attack:
1. Why wasn't there more extensive news coverage of the event, and
2. What was the possible reason that the boy struck out in this manner.

I think Golfingnut is correct on the first question. If the boy had used a gun it would have been an opportunity for the anti-gun lobby to flood the airways with anti-gun rhetoric, which would have been answered by pro-gun advocates, using up a lot of air time. No one can reasonably propose the banning of kitchen knives, the reported weapons in this case, so there was no resulting debate.

We don't really have much to go on regarding the second question except for one brief statement the boy is reported to have uttered, "I want to die."

In my training to be a Hostage Negotiator I was taught that most suicidal people arrive at the point of acting out their wish when they reach the point of feeling hopeless and helpless. This feeling can come to a person from a variety of circumstances, and the initial report in this case is that the boy was bullied. We must wait for more information before assigning a motive for this attack.

.
Carl I see your right on target with this post. I felt that if they gave the same coverage as a shooting might actually start to point to the real problem. Mental instability versus blaming the evil gun. Also not enough controversy so less profit.

[Taltarzac725]

Carl I see your right on target with this post. I felt that if they gave the same coverage as a shooting might actually start to point to the real problem. Mental instability versus blaming the evil gun. Also not enough controversy so less profit.

Not sure if you can call this mental illness. We will have to wait and see. There do not seem to be any indications that this kid had a history of any mental problems other than perhaps being bullied.

[CFrance]

It has not even been confirmed that he was bullied. That was one statement by one kid who said he "assumed" the kid was bullied. Guess we will know more later.

It's a stable, safe school district in a mostly affluent suburb where parents spend a lot of time on their kids. I know kids and parents who lived there and attended that school.

[kittygilchrist]

Is there a devil? Does he influence peoples' behavior? Are good and evil really making a play for us, as portrayed in the cartoons of my childhood where an angel voice went in one ear and a devil in the other?

[SantaClaus]

I wouldn't believe the cartoons, but I do believe Jesus... He seemed pretty convinced that the devil and demons are real.

[Taltarzac725]

Is there a devil? Does he influence peoples' behavior? Are good and evil really making a play for us, as portrayed in the cartoons of my childhood where an angel voice went in one ear and a devil in the other?

That's a very interesting question. I see the devil more as a reflection of the evil within us already. This evil sure can prosper if good people do not live by a code like that found in the US and State Constitutions as well as in the Golden Rule which is the basis of many religions. It can happen anywhere and anyplace that the worse passions, ideas, prejudices, hubris, etc. of people take over.

There is also the problem when some philosopher, leader, etc.'s ideas become bastardized like with Friedrich Nietzsche, Charles Darwin and that despicable philosophical idiot Alfred Rosenberg. Friedrich Nietzsche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazi_ideologues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Rosenberg

This is a fascinating discussion about professors who taught ethics and the rise of Nazism -- http://schwitzsplinters.blogspot.com/2010/12/nazi-philosophers.html

[kittygilchrist]

I wouldn't believe the cartoons, but I do believe Jesus... He seemed pretty convinced that the devil and demons are real.

That's easy for you to say, you're Santa Claus! :1rotfl:

[Taltarzac725]

I wouldn't believe the cartoons, but I do believe Jesus... He seemed pretty convinced that the devil and demons are real.

Not sure if we can ever be certain of exactly what Jesus said as he seemed to have had a lot of editors from when he lived up to now. I am just starting reading Killing Jesus by Bill O'Reilly and Martin Dugard. It will be interesting to see if he addresses that problem.

[SantaClaus]

Not sure if we can ever be certain of exactly what Jesus said as he seemed to have had a lot of editors from when he lived up to now. I am just starting reading Killing Jesus by Bill O'Reilly and Martin Dugard. It will be interesting to see if he addresses that problem.


I don't want to completely hijack this thread, but having spent five years as a biblical studies and philosophy major I can assure you that we know what the original authors said that Jesus said. And we know that the oldest and best documents show that those authors were contemporaries of Jesus, and that their writings were distributed at the time that witnesses to the events were alive (and therefore could refute the claims). The tiny fraction of the text that remains in question (on the order of half a percent) is footnoted in any good Bible and none of those variants are of theological significance. Finally, I'm certain that Mr. O'Reiley had no difficulty finding experts to present a controversial viewpoint, there are always folks around who are more interested in getting published or booking speaking engagements than winnowing out the truth. I'm not saying this as a matter of faith, just as a case for the reliability of the documents. We actually have better evidence of what Jesus said than we do that Plato or Julius Caesar ever lived.

All that said, I do not see a demon behind every bush. I think man is fully capable of the worst kinds of evil all on his own and seldom needs prodding from the devil. Especially when we teach our kids that they are nothing but grown up germs, that terminating a pregnancy is no more significant that having a wart removed, and that all that awaits us is the tomb (that sweet Nirvana of escape). Ok, flame suit is on.

[buggyone]

From what I have seen on television and read, the boy who stabbed others looked about 13 or 14 but was actually 16. This kid was most likely bullied daily and finally just snapped. I would guess he did this as a last resort and was hoping to be killed. Definitely a mental case and will most likely be institutionized for many, many years.

[billethkid]

From what I have seen on television and read, the boy who stabbed others looked about 13 or 14 but was actually 16. This kid was most likely bullied daily and finally just snapped. I would guess he did this as a last resort and was hoping to be killed. Definitely a mental case and will most likely be institutionized for many, many years.

That will be his lawyers defense for sure whether it is real or not.

[SantaClaus]

Certainly seems to have been an impulsive plan, using what was at hand. It's not like he had a couple of $200 commando knives he'd saved for months to buy.

[Golfingnut]

I am very surprised to hear the parents say he was a normal child with no sign of any problems.

[Taltarzac725]

I don't want to completely hijack this thread, but having spent five years as a biblical studies and philosophy major I can assure you that we know what the original authors said that Jesus said. And we know that the oldest and best documents show that those authors were contemporaries of Jesus, and that their writings were distributed at the time that witnesses to the events were alive (and therefore could refute the claims). The tiny fraction of the text that remains in question (on the order of half a percent) is footnoted in any good Bible and none of those variants are of theological significance. Finally, I'm certain that Mr. O'Reiley had no difficulty finding experts to present a controversial viewpoint, there are always folks around who are more interested in getting published or booking speaking engagements than winnowing out the truth. I'm not saying this as a matter of faith, just as a case for the reliability of the documents. We actually have better evidence of what Jesus said than we do that Plato or Julius Caesar ever lived.

All that said, I do not see a demon behind every bush. I think man is fully capable of the worst kinds of evil all on his own and seldom needs prodding from the devil. Especially when we teach our kids that they are nothing but grown up germs, that terminating a pregnancy is no more significant that having a wart removed, and that all that awaits us is the tomb (that sweet Nirvana of escape). Ok, flame suit is on.

You should check out this link--

Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus

O'Reilly does have a section of other books to read about the historicity of Jesus. I minored in Religious Studies at the University of Nevada, Reno and have two BAs in History and Philosophy. Not sure that Jesus as a historical figure is as clear as many would hope.


On the subject of this kid--


We should wait and see what exactly influenced the Pittsburgh knife attacker. I am about 6' feet and was frequently bullied by much shorter boys in junior high as well as elementary school before became tall. Attitude seems more important when looking at who gets bullied.

[Golfingnut]

You should check out this link--

Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus)

O'Reilly does have a section of other books to read about the historicity of Jesus. I minored in Religious Studies at the University of Nevada, Reno and have two BAs in History and Philosophy. Not sure that Jesus as a historical figure is as clear as many would hope.


On the subject of this kid--


We should wait and see what exactly influenced the Pittsburgh knife attacker. I am about 6' feet and was frequently bullied by much shorter boys in junior high as well as elementary school before became tall. Attitude seems more important when looking at who gets bullied.

Hey tal, what's up.

[Taltarzac725]

Hey tal, what's up.


I am very surprised to hear the parents say he was a normal child with no sign of any problems.

Not much is up as far as I know but think that we should reserve judgment before accepting whatever version of this kid is out there right now. It may take them some time to get to the facts.

And sometimes you cannot get to the facts-- http://biblebabble.curbjaw.com/gospels.htm This is about conflicts in the Gospels. It does not look particularly credible but... its out there (in more ways than one).

[Golfingnut]

Not much is up as far as I know but think that we should reserve judgment before accepting whatever version of this kid is out there right now. It may take them some time to get to the facts.

I understand, but when a 16 year old man runs down the hall of his school slashing at his school mates, my money is on the side of something is wrong with the grey matter.

[SantaClaus]

Not sure that Jesus as a historical figure is as clear as many would hope.


I read the article, it says over and over that almost no serious scholar disputes the historicity of Jesus. Many, for many different reasons, dispute the events of his life, which is fine, I understand that believing in miracles is the domain of faith.

[Taltarzac725]

I understand, but when a 16 year old man runs down the hall of his school slashing at his school mates, my money is on the side of something is wrong with the grey matter.

That does sound like the case but the latest Ft. Hood shooter sounds like he was just very angry and not mentally ill. I do believe that all the media on these huge number of incidents like this over the past 25 years or so does make people going off like this much more common. Some kind of sick fascination with becoming infamous?

[Golfingnut]

That does sound like the case but the latest Ft. Hood shooter sounds like he was just very angry and not mentally ill. I do believe that all the media on these huge number of incidents like this over the past 25 years or so does make people going off like this much more common. Some kind of sick fascination with becoming infamous?

Humm sure is a strange thing. $&)( like that just should be detectable, but apparently not. Perhaps a few of the students Trained & Armed or an armed teacher could have dropped him quicker. I just don't know.