Navigating roundabouts

[Villager Joyce]

What are the rules of a roundabout and how do we get everyone on the same page? Every tine we are in the car, we either cut off someone or someone cuts us off. For example, when we are going South on Buena Vista and want to go into a Village on our left, if we are in the inside of the circle, we can't get out without crossing the people on the outside of the circle. If we are on the outside of the circle, the people on the inside go straight and cut us off. HELP!!!

[dbussone]

I apologize for changing the direction of this thread but it brings up the same questions I have every day -- what are the rules of a roundabout and how do we get everyone on the same page? Every tine we are in the car, we either cut off someone or someone cuts us off. For example, when we are going South on Buena Vista and want to go into a Village on our left, if we are in the inside of the circle, we can't get out without crossing the people on the outside of the circle. If we are on the outside of the circle, the people on the inside go straight and cut us off. HELP!!!


Just before entering a rotary you will note a road sign. It notes each lane and the rotary exits allowed from the respective lane.

In addition, rule # 1 is: a car already in the rotary has right of way over a car that is about to enter.

We have rotaries in the Boston area...and a lot more rules, but the ones above are good for TV.

[Mikeod]

I apologize for changing the direction of this thread but it brings up the same questions I have every day -- what are the rules of a roundabout and how do we get everyone on the same page? Every tine we are in the car, we either cut off someone or someone cuts us off. For example, when we are going South on Buena Vista and want to go into a Village on our left, if we are in the inside of the circle, we can't get out without crossing the people on the outside of the circle. If we are on the outside of the circle, the people on the inside go straight and cut us off. HELP!!!
First, think of the roundabout as a standard intersection. To make a right turn, you would use the right lane. A left turn, use the left lane. To go straight, either lane. Second, never enter a roundabout if there is a vehicle already in the roundabout to your left in EITHER lane. Then you will not cut anyone off, nor should you be cut off (assuming the other drivers follow the rules). Since not everyone follows the rules, drive assuming they won't, and use your signals when exiting.

[dbussone]

First, think of the roundabout as a standard intersection. To make a right turn, you would use the right lane. A left turn, use the left lane. To go straight, either lane. Second, never enter a roundabout if there is a vehicle already in the roundabout to your left in EITHER lane. Then you will not cut anyone off, nor should you be cut off (assuming the other drivers follow the rules). Since not everyone follows the rules, drive assuming they won't, and use your signals when exiting.


Well put!

[Warren Kiefer]

first, think of the roundabout as a standard intersection. To make a right turn, you would use the right lane. A left turn, use the left lane. To go straight, either lane. Second, never enter a roundabout if there is a vehicle already in the roundabout to your left in either lane. Then you will not cut anyone off, nor should you be cut off (assuming the other drivers follow the rules). Since not everyone follows the rules, drive assuming they won't, and use your signals when exiting.

perhaps the biggest problem which causes the most confusion is that practically no one ever uses their turn signals when in the roundabouts. I get upset when i am about to enter the roundabout and i see traffic to my left, no signal to indicate they are exiting the circle, so i must stop and wait. They then exit. This just screws up the flow of traffic.

[njbchbum]

"Sumter County Roundabout Brochure

"The Sumter County Board of County Commissioners in cooperation with the Sumter County Sheriff�s Office has developed an educational guide to navigating roundabouts in Sumter County. At the request of Sumter County officials, the District is providing this brochure for your information. If you have any questions regarding this information, please contact the Sumter County Public Works Department at 352-793-0240."

Scroll down the page at the following website to where you can click on a link to view the brochure.

Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/index.aspx)

[Carl in Tampa]

Alas, we will never get everyone on the same page, even though there is a illustrated document that explains how to negotiate a roundabout.

http://www.districtgov.org/community/Roundabout-02-08-12.pdf

In a nutshell, if you are going to take the first or second exit it is best to enter the roundabout in the right lane; if you are going to take the third or forth (u turn) exit it is best to enter the roundabout in the left lane.

However, even then there is the hazard of conflict at every exit from cars who entered from other approaches and are in different lanes with different destinations.

And even if we got everyone to read the brochure there would be those who either didn't understand it, didn't agree with it......or both.

Drive defensively.

:crap2:

[CFrance]

First, think of the roundabout as a standard intersection. To make a right turn, you would use the right lane. A left turn, use the left lane. To go straight, either lane. Second, never enter a roundabout if there is a vehicle already in the roundabout to your left in EITHER lane. Then you will not cut anyone off, nor should you be cut off (assuming the other drivers follow the rules). Since not everyone follows the rules, drive assuming they won't, and use your signals when exiting.
Mideod's are the simplest, easiest to understand, and correct rules to follow. Thinking of the roundabout as an intersection makes the most sense when trying to understand what lane to be in.

And yielding to both lanes of the roundabout when entering is the correct thing to do. That way you will never enter a roundabout when another car is already in it on your left.

And no, we will all never be on the same page where roundabouts are concerned, so drive defensively and use your turn signals when exiting the roundabout.

[njbchbum]

snipped
However, even then there is the hazard of conflict at every exit from cars who entered from other approaches and are in different lanes with different destinations.
snipped
:crap2:

That's why drivers should use the car's directional to signify the intent to exit! But that's another thread! ;)

[keithwand]

I just close my eyes and floor it!

[Bonanza]

Okay -- here goes -- another opinion . . .

As we approach each circle, we always see the sign indicating how we should navigate it.

Then we get to the circle and there are dotted lines that belie exactly what the sign says. Anywhere in this country, a dotted line means that you can either pass, or change lanes, traffic permitting.

Our circles are very confusing and you never know what the other driver is doing or going to do.

These circles have no place here in TV. As circles go, they are too small and our residents are too old. If they don't have an accident, they cause one!

[blueash]

Worst rotary is going east on Stillwater to Morse to do a 270 to go North on Morse. Shortly after getting onto Morse there is a right lane bypass. This road design encourages drivers to use the incorrect outside lane to do the 270 so they will be in the right lane for the bypass. My guess is that well over 1/2 the drivers from Stillwater are in the wrong lane in that rotary.

[LuckySevens]

Okay -- here goes -- another opinion . . .

As we approach each circle, we always see the sign indicating how we should navigate it.

Then we get to the circle and there are dotted lines that belie exactly what the sign says. Anywhere in this country, a dotted line means that you can either pass, or change lanes, traffic permitting.

Our circles are very confusing and you never know what the other driver is doing or going to do.

These circles have no place here in TV. As circles go, they are too small and our residents are too old. If they don't have an accident, they cause one!

I absolutely agree, the roundabouts do not belong here and are dangerous.
If they insist on having circles, they should make the road to merge into one lane and just be ONE lane roundabouts. Sure it would slow traffic down, but that is better than having an accident.

[The Great Fumar]

Excuse me, what are directional signals.....

[perrjojo]

I know of some "close calls" on the round abouts but I wonder what the stastics are for actual accidents as opposed to any other intersection.

[blueash]

I know of some "close calls" on the round abouts but I wonder what the stastics are for actual accidents as opposed to any other intersection.

Roundabouts: A Safer Choice - FHWA Safety Program (http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/roundabouts/fhwasa08006/)

Here you are:

Compared to other types of intersections, roundabouts have demonstrated safety and other benefits.

Roundabouts:
�Improve safety ◦More than 90% reduction in fatalities*
◦76% reduction in injuries**
◦35% reduction in all crashes**
◦Slower speeds are generally safer for pedestrians

[Polar Bear]

It's not a "rule", but to minimize conflict, just adjust your position/speed as you enter the roundabout so you don't drive right next to another vehicle. It takes little effort once you get used to it and it eliminates the conflicts.

[CFrance]

Excuse me, what are directional signals.....
Something Detroit takes out of any car to be sold in Michigan.

[Bogie Shooter]

What are the rules of a roundabout and how do we get everyone on the same page? Every tine we are in the car, we either cut off someone or someone cuts us off. For example, when we are going South on Buena Vista and want to go into a Village on our left, if we are in the inside of the circle, we can't get out without crossing the people on the outside of the circle. If we are on the outside of the circle, the people on the inside go straight and cut us off. HELP!!!

The following threads are previous discussions/debates/arguments on roundabouts. If you want the answer to your question you must read all of the posts. This is best done while enjoying a bottle of scotch! You see, most of us who have been around TOTV for awhile, don't take any new roundabout thread seriously.:wine:
BTW the last thread has 129 posts if you want to start at the bottom and work your way up.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/navigating-roundabout-108019/
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/guide-navigating-sumter-county-florida-roundabouts-98716/
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/no-lefts-turns-right-lane-96132/
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/tips-driving-villages-93123/
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-roundabouts-92021/
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/roundabouts-vs-stop-signs-90733/
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/wrong-way-roundabout-77717/
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/bicycles-rotary-question-71088/
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/roundabouts-72570/
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/lane-surfing-roundabouts-69793/

[MikeV]

For crying out loud just read the signs. It is so easy.

[Bonanza]

For crying out loud just read the signs. It is so easy.

Read the signs?
Only read the signs???
What about the road markings -- you know -- those dotted lines???

Sorry. It ain't easy!
The folks here just don't get it!

[Mikeod]

Read the signs?
Only read the signs???
What about the road markings -- you know -- those dotted lines???

Sorry. It ain't easy!
The folks here just don't get it!

Yes. Only follow the signs. The lane markings only confuse the situation. The guide published by the sheriff tells the story and the signs agree with the guide.

[Mikeod]

Worst rotary is going east on Stillwater to Morse to do a 270 to go North on Morse. Shortly after getting onto Morse there is a right lane bypass. This road design encourages drivers to use the incorrect outside lane to do the 270 so they will be in the right lane for the bypass. My guess is that well over 1/2 the drivers from Stillwater are in the wrong lane in that rotary.

IMO, the number is more like 80%. It really makes it hard to exit the Caroline gate and sets up conflict when the inside vehicle wants to make a legal exit into Caroline. But the truth is that if you navigate it correctly in the inside lane there is sufficient time to merge right and take the bypass. If that move is blocked by someone ignoring the rules, you just don't use the bypass. Better that than causing a crash by also ignoring the rules.

[Bogie Shooter]

Read the signs?
Only read the signs???
What about the road markings -- you know -- those dotted lines???

Sorry. It ain't easy!
The folks here just don't get it!

Maybe it would be best to observe the other vehicles rather than the lane markings.
Read the signs upon entering a roundabout

[CFrance]

I always thought the dotted lines were there to allow people entering the roundabout from the street to migrate to the inside (left) lane if they're going 3/4 the way around, and to merge back into the right lane when exiting, to get to the residents' gate. Once inside the roundabout, there's no lane changing till you exit.

What they should have done was make the visitors' gate the residents' gate, and vice versa.

[buzzy]

That's why drivers should use the car's directional to signify the intent to exit! But that's another thread! ;)

100% correct. I signal both when entering and exiting.

However, the other day I was approaching a roundabout in the left lane, with my left signal flashing, and planning to go 3/4 of the way around. As I was paused at the entrance for traffic already in the roundabout, a car saw me there and stopped in the roundabout to see what I was going to do. Apparently he thought that I might make an immediate left into oncoming traffic. I waved him past, and then entered.

[CFrance]

100% correct. I signal both when entering and exiting.

However, the other day I was approaching a roundabout in the left lane, with my left signal flashing, and planning to go 3/4 of the way around. As I was paused at the entrance for traffic already in the roundabout, a car saw me there and stopped in the roundabout to see what I was going to do. Apparently he thought that I might make an immediate left into oncoming traffic. I waved him past, and then entered.

I can see where that would be confusing to somebody in the roundabout. I wouldn't signal left at all. Enter the roundabout in the lane you want, not signaling at all, go 3/4 the way around and signal right as you approach your exit. All exits are to the right in a roundabout.

The cars approaching the roundabout yield sign just need to know your intention to make a turn.

[Barefoot]

I signal both when entering and exiting. However, the other day I was approaching a roundabout in the left lane, with my left signal flashing, and planning to go 3/4 of the way around. As I was paused at the entrance for traffic already in the roundabout, a car saw me there and stopped in the roundabout to see what I was going to do. Apparently he thought that I might make an immediate left into oncoming traffic. I waved him past, and then entered.

Buzzy, cars have been known to go the wrong way in a roundabout.
The next time you see Fireboy, ask him about the time he met a lady going the wrong way.
She shook her fist at him. :laugh:

[Bonanza]

Maybe it would be best to observe the other vehicles rather than the lane markings.
Read the signs upon entering a roundabout

I always thought the dotted lines were there to allow people entering the roundabout from the street to migrate to the inside (left) lane if they're going 3/4 the way around, and to merge back into the right lane when exiting, to get to the residents' gate. Once inside the roundabout, there's no lane changing till you exit.

What they should have done was make the visitors' gate the residents' gate, and vice versa.

Yes. Only follow the signs. The lane markings only confuse the situation. The guide published by the sheriff tells the story and the signs agree with the guide.

The point is that the dotted lines are universal law in the entire country and they are prominent throughout every circle within the Villages.

Yes, the guide published by the Sheriff's Dept. may "tell the story," but everyone is not privvy to that publication. I, for one, have never seen it, nor do I know where you get one. It obviously doesn't matter because up to now, whatever is says hasn't worked.

It takes about half an hour to go from Brownwood to Spanish Springs because of the damn circles. That is ridiculous! I guess I'm going to get hammered because of that comment, too.

Oh, well . . .

[Barefoot]

It takes about half an hour to go from Brownwood to Spanish Springs because of the damn circles. That is ridiculous!

Actually, I think half an hour is reasonable from Brownwood to Spanish Springs.
If you wish to avoid roundabouts, why not take CR 301 North to CR 466.

[perrjojo]

Actually, I think half an hour is reasonable from Brownwood to Spanish Springs.
If you wish to avoid roundabouts, why not take CR 301 North to CR 466.
:agree:

[cquick]

What are the rules of a roundabout and how do we get everyone on the same page? Every tine we are in the car, we either cut off someone or someone cuts us off. For example, when we are going South on Buena Vista and want to go into a Village on our left, if we are in the inside of the circle, we can't get out without crossing the people on the outside of the circle. If we are on the outside of the circle, the people on the inside go straight and cut us off. HELP!!!

If you are turning left and you are in the left lane of the circle, you have the right of way to the people entering the circle from your right. they are supposed to stop and let you get in the right lane and exit the circle . I am not saying they always do, so you must always drive defensively.

You are not 'cutting them off".

[Bogie Shooter]

Imagine how long it would take if every roundabout was a stop sign.

[Bogie Shooter]

The point is that the dotted lines are universal law in the entire country and they are prominent throughout every circle within the Villages.

Yes, the guide published by the Sheriff's Dept. may "tell the story," but everyone is not privvy to that publication. I, for one, have never seen it, nor do I know where you get one. It obviously doesn't matter because up to now, whatever is says hasn't worked.

It takes about half an hour to go from Brownwood to Spanish Springs because of the damn circles. That is ridiculous! I guess I'm going to get hammered because of that comment, too.

Oh, well . . .

http://www.districtgov.org/community/Roundabout-02-08-12.pdf

http://sumtercountyfl.gov/DocumentCenter/Home/View/3939

[Mikeod]

Imagine how long it would take if every roundabout was a stop sign.

Bingo!

[rayschic]

If you are turning left and you are in the left lane of the circle, you have the right of way to the people entering the circle from your right. they are supposed to stop and let you get in the right lane and exit the circle . I am not saying they always do, so you must always drive defensively.

You are not 'cutting them off".

Are you saying that you drive 3/4 around the circle in the left lane and then change to the right lane to exit ? You should still exit in the left lane and still be in the left lane after you exit.

http://www.districtgov.org/community/Roundabout-02-08-12.pdf

[Barefoot]

If you are turning left and you are in the left lane of the circle, you have the right of way to the people entering the circle from your right. they are supposed to stop and let you get in the right lane and exit the circle .

Are you saying that you drive 3/4 around the circle in the left lane and then change to the right lane to exit ? You should still exit in the left lane and still be in the left lane after you exit.

OK, this is a good example of the problem.
Right here.
If seasoned posters (both of whom I respect) don't agree on the correct way to drive a roundabout,
then think about how confusing it must be for renters or infrequent drivers,
or for the rest of us that aren't too bright! :ohdear:

[Polar Bear]

...It takes about half an hour to go from Brownwood to Spanish Springs because of the damn circles...

Actually you're about right. Because without the "damn circles", the same route would take much longer.

[CFrance]

If you are turning left and you are in the left lane of the circle, you have the right of way to the people entering the circle from your right. they are supposed to stop and let you get in the right lane and exit the circle . I am not saying they always do, so you must always drive defensively.

You are not 'cutting them off".
Actually, according to the yield sign, no need for them to stop, because they are not even supposed to be entering the circle, because the yield sign means yield to both lanes of the traffic circle. If they're already in the circle, they should be either in front of you or behind you, not beside you and not overtaking you.

[Bonanza]

http://www.districtgov.org/community/Roundabout-02-08-12.pdf

http://sumtercountyfl.gov/DocumentCenter/Home/View/3939

Thank you, Bogie!

As I mentioned before, I had never seen that brochure.
I think I may have to go back to the U of F to get an
engineering degree so I can decipher it!

I will still silently keep praying that one fine day,
they remove those stupid things so that traffic
can go straight through on Morse and Buena Vista
with stop signs for traffic coming from the east/west villages.

Oops!
Did I throw another coal in the fire???
Will I get burned again?
:a040:

[jblum315]

Actually, I think half an hour is reasonable from Brownwood to Spanish Springs.
If you wish to avoid roundabouts, why not take CR 301 North to CR 466.

That's basically what I do from Hemingway. I either take 301 North (50 m speed limit and no roundabouts) to get to 466 and Walmart etc., or 441 to get to Spanish Springs. 50 m speed limit, no roundabouts, zip, zip. I avoid Morse and Buena Vista like the plague. It adds about 1 mile to the trip, big whoop

[CFrance]

To answer, or add to Bonanza's thought... We do have to get out of our neighborhoods. But if they removed the roundabouts (although I know this will never happen) and put a traffic signal in every so often, it would create gaps in the constant stream of traffic so you could turn onto Morse and Buena Vista. Just like they have on 466 & 466A.

I think the biggest problem with the roundabouts is the average age of the drivers. They're either confused, oblivious, or arrogant. And it's not just newbies. My husband was riding with a longtime resident yesterday who totally mis-navigated the roundabout, almost got t-boned, and yelled at the other driver, who was doing the right thing.

[Bogie Shooter]

To answer, or add to Bonanza's thought... We do have to get out of our neighborhoods. But if they removed the roundabouts (although I know this will never happen) and put a traffic signal in every so often, it would create gaps in the constant stream of traffic so you could turn onto Morse and Buena Vista. Just like they have on 466 & 466A.

I think the biggest problem with the roundabouts is the average age of the drivers. They're either confused, oblivious, or arrogant. And it's not just newbies. My husband was riding with a longtime resident yesterday who totally mis-navigated the roundabout, almost got t-boned, and yelled at the other driver, who was doing the right thing.

And did your husband point out the mis-navigation? Why not?

[CFrance]

And did your husband point out the mis-navigation? Why not?
Because he isn't a rude person and the driver was giving him a ride.

[NoMoSno]

I think the diameter of these roundabouts are too small, to handle the high season volume. JMHO

[Bogie Shooter]

Thank you, Bogie!

As I mentioned before, I had never seen that brochure.
I think I may have to go back to the U of F to get an
engineering degree so I can decipher it!

I will still silently keep praying that one fine day,
they remove those stupid things so that traffic
can go straight through on Morse and Buena Vista
with stop signs for traffic coming from the east/west villages.

Oops!
Did I throw another coal in the fire???
Will I get burned again?
:a040:

In this case praying will do no good!:pray:

[Mikeod]

Thank you, Bogie!

As I mentioned before, I had never seen that brochure.
I think I may have to go back to the U of F to get an
engineering degree so I can decipher it!

I will still silently keep praying that one fine day,
they remove those stupid things so that traffic
can go straight through on Morse and Buena Vista
with stop signs for traffic coming from the east/west villages.

Oops!
Did I throw another coal in the fire???
Will I get burned again?
:a040:

And I will pray they don't remove them in favor of stop signs. All you have to do is see the problems residents along Morse between 466 and Rio Grande have trying to enter Morse during the high season. It's almost impossible to make a left turn onto Morse out of those neighborhoods. I believe that's why they changed to roundabouts.

[Bonanza]

And I will pray they don't remove them in favor of stop signs. All you have to do is see the problems residents along Morse between 466 and Rio Grande have trying to enter Morse during the high season. It's almost impossible to make a left turn onto Morse out of those neighborhoods. I believe that's why they changed to roundabouts.

Well, your praying won't work and neither will mine, unfortunately.

However . . . I have never been anywhere else in the country
where we have a mass of these stupid,
gas guzzling, accident causing circles.

Anywhere else, main streets go straight through
(Morse & Buena Vista in our case), with an occasional traffic light.
The artery streets (our separate villages)
all have stop signs before entering either of the two main streets.

The real facts are -- THAT is what works!
The traffic safely flows and egress into our main two arteries
permits cars to safely enter these streets because of the stop signs.

We are no different than any other city in Florida.
We all have the seasonal heavy flow of traffic,
and even in areas such as Ft. Lauderdale, Sarasota, Boca Raton,
etc., what I have described above is the only thing that
works to maintain safety and a steady flow of traffic.

[alzjr]

last time I checked I was getting 0 miles per gallon while stopped at a stop sign or red traffic signal

[Mikeod]

[B][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][CENTER][SIZE="4"]Well, your praying won't work and neither will mine, unfortunately.

However . . . I have never been anywhere else in the country
where we have a mass of these stupid,
gas guzzling, accident causing circles.


I've been here eight years and can't recall a lot accidents in the roundabouts. I experience little trouble with them, perhaps because I get into the proper lane prior to reaching the roundabout for my destination leaving it. I yield to any traffic already in it to my left. My only close calls occur when someone either through ignorance or arrogance insists on going all the way round in the outside lane, thereby cutting off those navigating properly or those who don't understand what the YIELD signs mean at the entrance to the roundabout. So, anticipating those two roundabout errors allows me to smoothly go where I wish without drama.

As far as making Morse and Buena Vista through streets with stop signs or lights, I think that would create other problems you may not anticipate. Speed limit on those roads is 35. I am constantly passed by people going 45 or faster. If they had a clear shot without roundabouts, imagine what the speed would be. Also, especially in the high season, imagine how traffic would back up inside villages trying to get out onto those main roads. Again, just look at Morse between 466 and Rio Grande between January and May.

The truth is the roundabouts work. It's the drivers who won't follow the simple rules of navigating them that create the problems. And don't blame age. My 91 year old mother lives here and drives them daily without problems. She understands the rules. It isn't hard.

[Bogie Shooter]

Because he isn't a rude person and the driver was giving him a ride.

I was thinking more of saving someone's life rather than being rude.

[Bogie Shooter]

I've been here eight years and can't recall a lot accidents in the roundabouts. I experience little trouble with them, perhaps because I get into the proper lane prior to reaching the roundabout for my destination leaving it. I yield to any traffic already in it to my left. My only close calls occur when someone either through ignorance or arrogance insists on going all the way round in the outside lane, thereby cutting off those navigating properly or those who don't understand what the YIELD signs mean at the entrance to the roundabout. So, anticipating those two roundabout errors allows me to smoothly go where I wish without drama.

As far as making Morse and Buena Vista through streets with stop signs or lights, I think that would create other problems you may not anticipate. Speed limit on those roads is 35. I am constantly passed by people going 45 or faster. If they had a clear shot without roundabouts, imagine what the speed would be. Also, especially in the high season, imagine how traffic would back up inside villages trying to get out onto those main roads. Again, just look at Morse between 466 and Rio Grande between January and May.

The truth is the roundabouts work. It's the drivers who won't follow the simple rules of navigating them that create the problems. And don't blame age. My 91 year old mother lives here and drives them daily without problems. She understands the rules. It isn't hard.

All points well made!