Heaven Is For Real

[Villages PL]

I haven't seen this movie but I heard the boy being interviewed on the radio. Supposedly, he went to the hospital for an operation and died. He went to heaven and talked to Jesus and God. And Jesus decided to send him back, to be alive on earth, because his father prayed for him. I hope I got that right as I am relying on memory.

Is that the way it works? If someone prays for you, you get sent back? How many children have died from leukemia, never to be seen again? Didn't anyone pray for them?

This story doesn't make sense to me. It makes it seem as though God made a mistake. Oops! We mistakenly brought you up here to heaven, not realizing your father would pray for you. Well, duh! His father is a minister....he's praying all the time.

And the reason it's supposed to be believable is because he said he saw his grandfather and sister who died at birth, which he wasn't supposed to know about. But I knew things as a kid that I wasn't supposed to know either. And that's because adults talked about things in front of me when they thought I was too young to understand. And someone would say, "he looks like he understands what we're saying." And someone else would say, "No, he doesn't understand." That happens all the time.

So, I think the kid was having a dream while under the anesthetic. And his father, being a minister, was all too eager to believe it.

If I understand it correctly, his father wrote the book and the movie is based on the book. So he's making a lot of money on the book and now he's making a lot of money on the movie. Money, money, money, follow the money.

[loveinthesun]

I wanted yo see the movie, but i never heard the story. I would agree with your take on it if that's how it goes lol

[maddie101]

It was an enjoyable movie. It never said he was sent back because of the father praying. They had prayer chains going. I don't want to go into more because it will ruin it for others who will still see the movie. The little boy was adorable. I wanted to hug him.

[ilovetv]

I saw the boy (now 14) and his father interviewed on t.v. What they said seemed plausible and possible to people of faith and to those who are seeking God or seeking answers to life's big questions.....or to those who simply seek good entertainment or a good story.

While it may sound like they did the movie just to make money, the readership of the book proves people are interested in finding out more about God's promise of perfection in eternal life thru Christ. And everyone ought to be interested in where they are going after death!!

Lots of junk stuff is made into Hollywood movies. It seems like an interesting and intriguing topic that doesn't purvey violence, drugs, porn nor the darkness of all of today's societal ills.

To me it looks like this movie is meant to evoke a response of looking further into God's promises conveyed in the Bible. Viewers can take it or leave it....it's' up to them.

I wasn't planning on seeing the movie, but after looking at the trailer from Sony Pictures here, to me it seems like an intriguing story whether or not a person believes in God and heaven in eternity. I might see it now.

See Trailer here: Heaven Is For Real | Official Movie Site | Sony Pictures (http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/heavenisforreal/)

"Today Show" quote:

Faith-based film "Heaven Is for Real" soared at the Easter weekend box office, earning a stellar $21.5 million from 2,417 theaters to bury big-budget sci-fi epic "Transcendence," which opened to a dismal $11.5 million from 3,455 locations.

'Heaven Is for Real' rises above Johnny Depp's 'Transcendence' at box office - TODAY.com (http://www.today.com/entertainment/heaven-real-rises-above-johnny-depps-transcendence-box-office-1D79552134)

[villager]

I usually don't post about these things, but for some reason, feel compelled to this time. Yes, I believe. I believe the story and believe the young man who had the experience. I won't share my personal reasons why, but I do feel there is more to the story than just money, money, money. I gave the book to a friend who was an agnostic and when she finished the book, she sat and re-evaluated her whole belief system. The story has always been promoted as a true story. It has touched many people's lives. Who am I to judge the truth of others?

[KeepingItReal]

I haven't seen this movie but I heard the boy being interviewed on the radio. Supposedly, he went to the hospital for an operation and died. He went to heaven and talked to Jesus and God. And Jesus decided to send him back, to be alive on earth, because his father prayed for him. I hope I got that right as I am relying on memory.

Is that the way it works? If someone prays for you, you get sent back? How many children have died from leukemia, never to be seen again? Didn't anyone pray for them?

This story doesn't make sense to me. It makes it seem as though God made a mistake. Oops! We mistakenly brought you up here to heaven, not realizing your father would pray for you. Well, duh! His father is a minister....he's praying all the time.

And the reason it's supposed to be believable is because he said he saw his grandfather and sister who died at birth, which he wasn't supposed to know about. But I knew things as a kid that I wasn't supposed to know either. And that's because adults talked about things in front of me when they thought I was too young to understand. And someone would say, "he looks like he understands what we're saying." And someone else would say, "No, he doesn't understand." That happens all the time.

So, I think the kid was having a dream while under the anesthetic. And his father, being a minister, was all too eager to believe it.

If I understand it correctly, his father wrote the book and the movie is based on the book. So he's making a lot of money on the book and now he's making a lot of money on the movie. Money, money, money, follow the money.



I do believe in God, Jesus, The Holy Ghost, a long home Heaven ,and a Hell to be shunned. I have no idea of the motives behind the account or the movie that followed but in no way do I believe it actually occurred. For whatever reason he may very well think it did but I do not believe it in the least. The Bible does not teach this and gives a full account of what happens when we take our last breath here and the soul departs our mortal body. Once the soul has left the body there will be no return for we will have a new body not made of flesh. Until this happens we are still here in body and in spirit.

[graciegirl]

If faith is a fit for you, good. If it isn't leave it for those who find it a comfort. When I see questioning such as this I always wonder why. It is a choice. One can't be debated or argued or taught into faith. It is a gift.

If you don't need it, or trust it, or believe it. That is your choice.

but if you ever change your mind........

[bluedog103]

If faith is a fit for you, good. If it isn't leave it for those who find it a comfort. When I see questioning such as this I always wonder why. It is a choice. One can't be debated or argued or taught into faith. It is a gift.

If you don't need it, or trust it, or believe it. That is your choice.

but if you ever change your mind........
Thanks Gracie. As usual, you make a lot of sense.

[asianthree]

Its not the first time someone has said they have hovered over their body and then didn't get to leave...

[kwtoman]

I haven't seen this movie but I heard the boy being interviewed on the radio. Supposedly, he went to the hospital for an operation and died. He went to heaven and talked to Jesus and God. And Jesus decided to send him back, to be alive on earth, because his father prayed for him. I hope I got that right as I am relying on memory.

Is that the way it works? If someone prays for you, you get sent back? How many children have died from leukemia, never to be seen again? Didn't anyone pray for them?

This story doesn't make sense to me. It makes it seem as though God made a mistake. Oops! We mistakenly brought you up here to heaven, not realizing your father would pray for you. Well, duh! His father is a minister....he's praying all the time.

And the reason it's supposed to be believable is because he said he saw his grandfather and sister who died at birth, which he wasn't supposed to know about. But I knew things as a kid that I wasn't supposed to know either. And that's because adults talked about things in front of me when they thought I was too young to understand. And someone would say, "he looks like he understands what we're saying." And someone else would say, "No, he doesn't understand." That happens all the time.

So, I think the kid was having a dream while under the anesthetic. And his father, being a minister, was all too eager to believe it.

If I understand it correctly, his father wrote the book and the movie is based on the book. So he's making a lot of money on the book and now he's making a lot of money on the movie. Money, money, money, follow the money.

If you haven't seen the movie, or read the book, I find it implausible that any conjecture can be made from any information you have, as it will all be subject to conjecture and personal opinion. If you are, in fact, a person of faith, I would recommend seeing the movie or reading the book. I saw it, and have made MY decision. As with all faith based traditions, I would recommend making your own from facts gathered by you alone.

[Villages PL]

I do believe in God, Jesus, The Holy Ghost, a long home Heaven ,and a Hell to be shunned. I have no idea of the motives behind the account or the movie that followed but in no way do I believe it actually occurred. For whatever reason he may very well think it did but I do not believe it in the least. The Bible does not teach this and gives a full account of what happens when we take our last breath here and the soul departs our mortal body. Once the soul has left the body there will be no return for we will have a new body not made of flesh. Until this happens we are still here in body and in spirit.

I'm glad to see at least one person got it right. A person's soul is not something that can be passed back 'n' forth. When it departs, that's it, it's final.

Don't forget, the boy's sister died and she didn't get a second chance.

To come up with a story where God sends a person's soul back to the body makes a mockery of religion. It's as though God was indecisive or made a mistake.

I read the book "30 Minutes In Heaven." Was that not the same?

[Hacker1]

I haven't seen this movie but I heard the boy being interviewed on the radio. Supposedly, he went to the hospital for an operation and died. He went to heaven and talked to Jesus and God. And Jesus decided to send him back, to be alive on earth, because his father prayed for him. I hope I got that right as I am relying on memory.

Is that the way it works? If someone prays for you, you get sent back? How many children have died from leukemia, never to be seen again? Didn't anyone pray for them?

This story doesn't make sense to me. It makes it seem as though God made a mistake. Oops! We mistakenly brought you up here to heaven, not realizing your father would pray for you. Well, duh! His father is a minister....he's praying all the time.

And the reason it's supposed to be believable is because he said he saw his grandfather and sister who died at birth, which he wasn't supposed to know about. But I knew things as a kid that I wasn't supposed to know either. And that's because adults talked about things in front of me when they thought I was too young to understand. And someone would say, "he looks like he understands what we're saying." And someone else would say, "No, he doesn't understand." That happens all the time.

So, I think the kid was having a dream while under the anesthetic. And his father, being a minister, was all too eager to believe it.

If I understand it correctly, his father wrote the book and the movie is based on the book. So he's making a lot of money on the book and now he's making a lot of money on the movie. Money, money, money, follow the money.
I did not see the boy on TV, but I did read the book, and just today saw the movie. All I can say is that your comments seem to be based on a lot of assumptions. For one, no, the father was not all too eager to believe it... he took a lot of convincing, wrestling with it for a long time. I very strongly advise you to see the movie -- see all of it, and withhold judgement until the end of the movie. I think you will be surprised.

[Golfingnut]

If faith is a fit for you, good. If it isn't leave it for those who find it a comfort. When I see questioning such as this I always wonder why. It is a choice. One can't be debated or argued or taught into faith. It is a gift.

If you don't need it, or trust it, or believe it. That is your choice.

but if you ever change your mind........

Are you asking that non believers should not question the validity of fictional beliefs? If believers have the right to talk about their view, non believers should have the same right. Think of what message you send when one half of the debate is silenced.

[pooh]

Are you asking that non believers should not question the validity of fictional beliefs? If believers have the right to talk about their view, non believers should have the same right. Think of what message you send when one half of the debate is silenced.

It's a debate that seems will never be proven to the satisfaction of non-believers and some who are deep believers. They go on faith. Some debate that humans are "hard wired" to believe in a God. There are many articles one can read just by Googling, "Are humans hard-wired for religion.?"

For many years I frequented a message board that wanted facts to prove discussions and much of what humanity takes as the truth. Members are atheists, agnostics, believers. Debate was spirited and constant, but in the end, what all believed and lived by was be kind, loving, honest and treat others as you want them to treat you. There is so much more to believing than just believing.

[rubicon]

There are two problems that intersect with this type discussion.

Belief in God, after life, etc is based on faith.

For both believers and deniers there is a built-in confirmation bias.

The only observation I will make about the claims in Heaven Is For Real is that Colton Burpo was 3 years old at the time of his appendix surgery gone bad. If his father did nothing to manipulate the boy's thinking then the story coming from the experience of a 3 year old causes one to pay closer attention.

Scientifically experts tell us that energy cannot be destroyed so who knows what happens to the energy that leaves our bodies at death??????

I stay open

[Taltarzac725]

I'm glad to see at least one person got it right. A person's soul is not something that can be passed back 'n' forth. When it departs, that's it, it's final.

Don't forget, the boy's sister died and she didn't get a second chance.

To come up with a story where God sends a person's soul back to the body makes a mockery of religion. It's as though God was indecisive or made a mistake.

I read the book "30 Minutes In Heaven." Was that not the same?

I had a playboy/adventurer friend while a Philosophy Student at the University of Nevada, Reno who had been stabbed six times (if I am remembering the story correctly) near the heart area around 1980. He was pronounced dead but they managed to revive him. He was having nothing of religion at least in front of me and other Philosophy Students. But, I would say that he came back. I believe it has to do with how much you think God controls the universe? Does he control the past, present and future? Kind of hard to argue any kind of moral responsibility if there is no choice really and God had determined everything beforehand.

I will wait and see the movie and may get to the book too. Maybe, it will get me back to reading more serious philosophy.

[Shimpy]

[QUOTE=KeepingItReal;866532..... The Bible ...... gives a full account of what happens when we take our last breath here and the soul departs our mortal body. Once the soul has left the body there will be no return for we will have a new body not made of flesh. Until this happens we are still here in body and in spirit.[/QUOTE]

Wishful thinking. The biggest instinct both we and animals have is survival. We would do anything to live forever and man cannot accept once he dies that it is final.

[Golfingnut]

An interesting read for what happens at death is Seat of the Soul. Nice to see a discussion of both views.

Lou

[Barefoot]

Snipped ...... but in the end, what all believed and lived by was be kind, loving, honest and treat others as you want them to treat you. There is so much more to believing than just believing.

Well said Pooh.

[Monkei]

Wishful thinking. The biggest instinct both we and animals have is survival. We would do anything to live forever and man cannot accept once he dies that it is final.

I somewhat agree. It is a comfort to those who believe, I sometimes am jealous of those who can simply use blind faith.

I believe also that when the lights are turned out they are indeed OUT.

[kittygilchrist]

I somewhat agree. It is a comfort to those who believe, I sometimes am jealous of those who can simply use blind faith.

I believe also that when the lights are turned out they are indeed OUT.

Maybe this should be a p.m...the moment before I first believed, I thought, "I should be logical, but I can't know with my brain if you're there or not, Jesus, so I'm coming to you with all that I am."
That was the first, as well as the last moment of blind faith. The rest has been certainty that Jesus is indeed real, alive, available, and loves me more than I love myself.

No opinion of the film.

[KeepingItReal]

[quote=Shimpy;868055]Wishful thinking. The biggest instinct both we and animals have is survival. We would do anything to live forever and man cannot accept once he dies that it is final.

Not at all wishful thinking, we all know that it is appointed unto all of us once to die, we must die, and we will die. We know when we die our carnal bodies here will go back to the dust from whence they came but our soul will depart this earthly body. The only final part is that when we die our soul's destiny is sealed whether it be heaven or hell but we can have salvation if we desire it. Salvation is a free gift of God paid for by the blood of Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Luke 15:7
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

[Golfingnut]

I see blind faith as giving up, not giving in. If god exists and made us in his image, why do some never question it and those like me that feel foolish if I do not question. Why was I plagued with an inquisitive mind even as a child. Did god give me this personality, then a threat to burn for eternity because I use it the way it was given to me. I often return to read sermon on the mount by the profit Jesus Christ to keep my bearings, but the Bible (king James) is filled with childish fairy tales.

[graciegirl]

I see blind faith as giving up, not giving in. If god exists and made us in his image, why do some never question it and those like me that feel foolish if I do not question. Why was I plagued with an inquisitive mind even as a child. Did god give me this personality, then a threat to burn for eternity because I use it the way it was given to me. I often return to read sermon on the mount by the profit Jesus Christ to keep my bearings, but the Bible (king James) is filled with childish fairy tales.



You are absolutely correct. Many people around the world turn to faith because it is a tradition, the way of life handed down to them and part of the way they live, their holidays and celebrations and all of their traditions are linked to it. Bright people should and do challenge and come up with their own answers. Not only in Christianity, but Judism and Budhism and Islam and Taoism and any faith one can think of. If God is than questions and investigations are not going to demolish him. or her. And if he is not, then one comes then to that conclusion.


I find comfort in Tradition, as many do. Here is one of my favorite characters in one of my favorite musicals. Hope you enjoy.


tevye tradition youtube - Bing Videos (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=tevye+tradition+youtube&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=37CF0E9D0240BD279EAF37CF0E9D0240BD279EAF)

[Golfingnut]

You are absolutely correct. Many people around the world turn to faith because it is a tradition, the way of life handed down to them and part of the way they live, their holidays and celebrations and all of their traditions are linked to it. Bright people should and do challenge and come up with their own answers. Not only in Christianity, but Judism and Budhism and Islam and Taoism and any faith one can think of. If God is than questions and investigations are not going to demolish him. or her. And if he is not, then one comes then to that conclusion.


I find comfort in Tradition, as many do. Here is one of my favorite characters in one of my favorite musicals. Hope you enjoy.


tevye tradition youtube - Bing Videos (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=tevye+tradition+youtube&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=37CF0E9D0240BD279EAF37CF0E9D0240BD279EAF)

You picked one of my top 5 all time favorite movies.

I get caught up because I find the bible hard to believe if not impossible. Yet, the red letter portions of the New Testament call to me. I Love Jesus, but find the bible confusing and silly. I wish I did fall into Christian or Atheist. Being Agnostic is a bourdon I face constantly. I don't wish to find myself on my death bed still fighting with this issue.

[Taltarzac725]

You picked one of my top 5 all time favorite movies.

I get caught up because I find the bible hard to believe if not impossible. Yet, the red letter portions of the New Testament call to me. I Love Jesus, but find the bible confusing and silly. I wish I did fall into Christian or Atheist. Being Agnostic is a bourdon I face constantly. I don't wish to find myself on my death bed still fighting with this issue.

You may want to look into this resource. Philosophy of Religion (http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/Courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=4680) I got it in CD from the Lady Lake Public Library and listened to it during trips back-and-forth from the dog park. It can be a little dull at points.

[Golfingnut]

You may want to look into this resource. Philosophy of Religion (http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/Courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=4680) I got it in CD from the Lady Lake Public Library and listened to it during trips back-and-forth from the dog park. It can be a little dull at points.

36 Lectures most of them are my actual questions. Thank you very much.

[SantaClaus]

Seems a book or movie or tv show brings up this topic every couple of years, but Jesus clearly explicated the case. Jesus told of two men who died, a good man who went to heaven and a selfish man who went to hell. The good man, seeing the suffering in hell begged to be able to return to his living relatives so that he could warn them to do everything to avoid hell. He was denied. No, they have the Scriptures (aka Moses and the Prophets) let them believe the word of God, for even if they hear the testimony of a man raised from the dead, they will not believe.

We don't need a new, fallible, prophet to come and tell us that heaven is real, we have a ancient word from an infallible God who tells us it is. We want to believe the boy because his story comes without "strings" (law, judgment, reliance on grace, etc).

It's also worth noting that as Jesus shared this parable, he was sharing to people living under the law whose hope of salvation was that though they tried to keep the law they constantly failed, at least in their spirit, and were clinging to the goodness of God that he would provide a substitute for them as he had for Isaac atop the pyre. How much surer our hope now that the substitute has come, that the Word has been revealed in full?

Here is the actual parable, I paraphrased it above hoping folks who are generally adverse to reading scripture might get the gist of the story:

The Rich Man and Lazarus

Luke 16:19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

[kittygilchrist]

I see blind faith as giving up, not giving in. If god exists and made us in his image, why do some never question it and those like me that feel foolish if I do not question. Why was I plagued with an inquisitive mind even as a child. Did god give me this personality, then a threat to burn for eternity because I use it the way it was given to me. I often return to read sermon on the mount by the profit Jesus Christ to keep my bearings, but the Bible (king James) is filled with childish fairy tales.

Lou, you have made my day!:BigApplause:
Thank you for stepping up and saying "I don't know"...letting the unknown be unknown and putting it out there takes more courage than most people have, who run to the comfort of proclaiming certainty about something which they cannot possibly know, such as "There is no God."

[Villages PL]

I did not see the boy on TV, but I did read the book, and just today saw the movie. All I can say is that your comments seem to be based on a lot of assumptions. For one, no, the father was not all too eager to believe it... he took a lot of convincing, wrestling with it for a long time. I very strongly advise you to see the movie -- see all of it, and withhold judgement until the end of the movie. I think you will be surprised.

Being that you read the book and saw the movie, will you please tell me why God first took the boy's soul up to heaven and then sent it back?

[tucson]

Being that you read the book and saw the movie, will you please tell me why God first took the boy's soul up to heaven and then sent it back?

To write a book and then a movie to let people know that there IS a heaven that God wants all His children to go to when they die... :-)

[senior citizen]

I usually don't post about these things, but for some reason, feel compelled to this time. Yes, I believe. I believe the story and believe the young man who had the experience. I won't share my personal reasons why, but I do feel there is more to the story than just money, money, money. I gave the book to a friend who was an agnostic and when she finished the book, she sat and re-evaluated her whole belief system. The story has always been promoted as a true story. It has touched many people's lives. Who am I to judge the truth of others?



I read the book several years ago and found it inspirational.
Children are so innocent and it's hard to fathom him making up this story. I also believe his "experience". Hope to see the movie..........soon.

[Villages PL]

To write a book and then a movie to let people know that there IS a heaven that God wants all His children to go to when they die... :-)

So God is now a promoter of books and movies? That doesn't answer my question. What I was asking is this: In the book and the movie, what was the reason given for returning the boy's soul to his body?

[tucson]

So God is now a promoter of books and movies? That doesn't answer my question. What I was asking is this: In the book and the movie, what was the reason given for returning the boy's soul to his body?

Yes, matter of fact,He IS a promoter of books, the greatest one is the Bible!
:-) I know someone personally who also died and went to Heaven and God told her she had to go back, b/c her family needed her and she had more "work" to do. Obviously, this young boy also had a mission to yet be accomplished, which is now being fulfilled...:-)

[jblum315]

All I can say is Wow. I would say Boy Howdy but that seems rude

[rubicon]

Someone smarter than me once wrote that intellectualizing the birth of the universe as the big bang theory was like suggesting a building exploding full of alphabetic letters would result in the encyclopedia .

Every aspect of the universe as we know it is mathematical proportional. The human body is extraordinary In the short run people see discrepancies but in the long run nature (God) returns everything in balance

Faith teachings are rich with metaphors some of which people take literally

The subject matter here is too complex and vast for men to understand. There is far too many missing pieces of this puzzle.

What I believe has been lost by the deniers on this thread is the message by many that near death experience have in common such an enlightening and source of peace and joy to the point that they did not want to return.

Why argue when you can take comfort that in that last moment the light will shine upon you.

[senior citizen]

Someone smarter than me once wrote that intellectualizing the birth of the universe as the big bang theory was like suggesting a building exploding full of alphabetic letters would result in the encyclopedia .

Every aspect of the universe as we know it is mathematical proportional. The human body is extraordinary In the short run people see discrepancies but in the long run nature (God) returns everything in balance

Faith teachings are rich with metaphors some of which people take literally

The subject matter here is too complex and vast for men to understand. There is far too many missing pieces of this puzzle.

What I believe has been lost by the deniers on this thread is the message by many that near death experience have in common such an enlightening and source of peace and joy to the point that they did not want to return.

Why argue when you can take comfort that in that last moment the light will shine upon you.


EXCELLENT POST and very well said.........

[Villages PL]

Yes, matter of fact,He IS a promoter of books, the greatest one is the Bible!
:-) I know someone personally who also died and went to Heaven and God told her she had to go back, b/c her family needed her and she had more "work" to do. Obviously, this young boy also had a mission to yet be accomplished, which is now being fulfilled...:-)

God is all knowing so there wouldn't be any need to take someones soul up to heaven and then send it back. God would know in advance that the person is needed on earth. God is not unknowing and indecisive! ;-)

Speaking of God being a promoter of books, He used to put a Bible on every hotel night-table. Does He still do that? :-)

[tucson]

[QUOTE=Villages PL;868557]God is all knowing so there wouldn't be any need to take someones soul up to heaven and then send it back. God would know in advance that the person is needed on earth. God is not unknowing and indecisive! ;-)

Speaking of God being a promoter of books, He used to put a Bible on every hotel night-table. Does He still do that? :-)[/

God can do anything He wants to.... He'll use anyone and anything to accomplish His will. The Gideons ministry is to reach the lost and they still do by putting the Bible in hotels. God loves to show His power by allowing someone to die and then be brought back to life in order to let those who don't believe in a Heaven to be exposed to the miraculous power that He has by using a innocent child. Just the fact that we're talking about it proves that... :-) God cannot be mocked...

[Golfingnut]

Well, I am not following all of this, but back to my interest, is being a Christian the way of salvation or not? Is their a god or not?

[tucson]

Well, I am not following all of this, but back to my interest, is being a Christian the way of salvation or not? Is their a god or not?

Yes,and yes. Jesus IS the way to reach eternal life. He came to earth to save sinners from hell by dying in our place on the cross so that we can live eternally with Him. I think if people are wondering if there truly is a God, then they need to ask Him to reveal Himself in ways that you can understand. He will answer you through awesome and miraculous ways that are personal with you. I know this to be true as He did this for me when I was seeking Him in my life many yrs ago. He's real and wants to have a personal relationship with you everyday b/c He loves you more than you can ever know! :-) God bless you!

[dbussone]

Yes,and yes. Jesus IS the way to reach eternal life. He came to earth to save sinners from hell by dying in our place on the cross so that we can live eternally with Him. I think if people are wondering if there truly is a God, then they need to ask Him to reveal Himself in ways that you can understand. He will answer you through awesome and miraculous ways that are personal with you. I know this to be true as He did this for me when I was seeking Him in my life many yrs ago. He's real and wants to have a personal relationship with you everyday b/c He loves you more than you can ever know! :-) God bless you!


Wonderful response.

[kittygilchrist]

Well, I am not following all of this, but back to my interest, is being a Christian the way of salvation or not? Is their a god or not?

IMO, you can ask man everywhere if there is a God and get more of the alleged wisdom and real truth and won't know the difference intellectually.
Why not ask God, did you send Jesus and if so I'd like to know Him...if God does not answer you...you have your answer.

[Parker]

God gave us a brain for a reason. He intended we should use it. It was designed to weigh and consider the deep issues of life. IMO, 'blind' faith does not honor that gift.

[kittygilchrist]

God gave us a brain for a reason. He intended we should use it. It was designed to weigh and consider the deep issues of life. IMO, 'blind' faith does not honor that gift.

If you can outsmart your maker, you're in good company. Not the company I want to be in...
post edited for clarification. A friend offered me a chance to make my assertion more clear..
indeed, we have a brain. By design, faith is not a matter of intellect, or only smarts would get us to God. Faith and intellect can be/often are, at odds. In my case, faith was a conscious decision that intellect could not earn entry to knowledge of divinity. The brain can't go where faith can go.
No intention to say I don't want to be with people who think otherwise...saying I can't trust my intellect more than my knowing. It's another realm.

[quirky3]

...

[Shimpy]

[QUOTE=tucson;868600]Jesus IS the way to reach eternal life. He came to earth to save sinners from hell by dying in our place on the cross so that we can live eternally with Him.

I would gladly die for your sins if I knew I would come back to life. Bottom line is he, as the story is told, came back to life so he didn't die. AND what sins, I wasn't even born then? How can I or a newborn baby be accused of sins. What if I lived in the Artic or Amazon and never heard of him? Not my fault but you would send me to hell for never hearing about him.
I was married to the preachers daughter until she died at the ripe old age of 36, and he and I had many conversations about the bible. Whenever I asked a question that he couldn't answer then he'd just say "well, you just got to have faith".

[tucson]

[QUOTE=tucson;868600]Jesus IS the way to reach eternal life. He came to earth to save sinners from hell by dying in our place on the cross so that we can live eternally with Him.

I would gladly die for your sins if I knew I would come back to life. Bottom line is he, as the story is told, came back to life so he didn't die. AND what sins, I wasn't even born then? How can I or a newborn baby be accused of sins. What if I lived in the Artic or Amazon and never heard of him? Not my fault but you would send me to hell for never hearing about him.
I was married to the preachers daughter until she died at the ripe old age of 36, and he and I had many conversations about the bible. Whenever I asked a question that he couldn't answer then he'd just say "well, you just got to have faith".

We are all born with original sin via Adam & Eve, who committed their sins in the Garden of Eden, and as a result we (the whole entire population on earth) are born with that "sin nature". As a result we all need a Saviour (Jesus Christ, the Son of God) who came to earth & died in our place on the cross and then was risen from the dead 3 days later. So as we freely believe and freely accept Him as Lord and Saviour of our lives we can enter into the gates of Heaven immediately after we take our last breath. God is supernatural and can speak to the hearts and minds of people who've never even heard the Gospel. He's the great "heart knower", even if you've never heard of Him, He knows when you're searching and seeking Him. There's a scripture that I love and it says. Seek me with all your heart and you WILL find Me. :-) Peace in Christ

[Parker]

If you can outsmart your maker, you're in good company. Not the company I want to be in...
post edited for clarification. A friend offered me a chance to make my assertion more clear..
indeed, we have a brain. By design, faith is not a matter of intellect, or only smarts would get us to God. Faith and intellect can be/often are mutually exclusive. In my case, faith was a conscious decision that intellect could not earn entry to knowledge of divinity. The brain can't go where faith can go.
No intention to say I don't want to be with people who think otherwise...saying I can't trust my intellect more than my knowing. It's another realm.


I must have been unclear. I am a believer. I don't think we can or should try to outsmart our maker. My point is that we must all learn and understand what we believe for ourselves, not blindly follow a doctrine because someone told us to or because we were born into it.

[helen lovely]

Saw the movie last night & loved it. Refreshing to have a movie out that actually says the word "Jesus" with respect. Theatre was full of families & lots of teenagers. Let's not get into the negative aspects of what some think was the outcome. If the father made money putting a positive Godly message out there that all could enjoy, I am happy for him. He had the courage to promote a message that illustrated a great diverse community working together through ups & downs. It's about God's intervention when tradgedy strikes & community support through the healing process. I rate it the best so go out & support it. No, you will not hear blasphemy or see illicit scenes; it's not typical Hollywood trash that makes billions polluting the minds of families & kids. We, who are in our 70s, left there feeling hopeful about the future, seeing our MIAMI Regal Theatre full to capacity of all ages..

[helen lovely]

Great message. Thanks

[kittygilchrist]

I must have been unclear. I am a believer. I don't think we can or should try to outsmart our maker. My point is that we must all learn and understand what we believe for ourselves, not blindly follow a doctrine because someone told us to or because we were born into it.

I did misunderstand your first post. We say the same thing from differing vantages. In your view, if I get you, faith is not a heritage, but a choice made only by volition of the individual.
In my experience, with no birthright of faith, I came to define blind faith differently than you are saying. It was not handed down to me, and so faith is the moment I chose to believe in what I could not prove by logic; therefore trusting in a realm which my mind, however keen, could not see into nor fathom, nor comprehend.

[helen lovely]

Your life must be very empty life if you believe in nothing. Something tragic will have to happen to make you realize that there is a beyond & a tomorrow that many of us are striving to qualify for constantly. How can you go through life believing that this is it?
"A proud man is always looking down on things and people; and, of course, as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity. Do yourself a big favor & read the book.

[helen lovely]

Saw the movie last night & loved it. Refreshing to have a movie out that actually says the word "Jesus" with respect. Theatre was full of families & lots of teenagers. Let's not get into the negative aspects of what some think was the outcome. If the father made money putting a positive Godly message out there that all could enjoy, I am happy for him. He had the courage to promote a message that illustrated a great diverse community working together through ups & downs. It's about God's intervention when tradgedy strikes & community support through the healing process. I rate it the best so go out & support it. No, you will not hear blasphemy or see illicit scenes; it's not typical Hollywood trash that makes billions polluting the minds of families & kids. We, who are in our 70s, left there feeling hopeful about the future, seeing our MIAMI Regal Theatre full to capacity of all ages..

[kittygilchrist]

Your life must be very empty life if you believe in nothing. Something tragic will have to happen to make you realize that there is a beyond & a tomorrow that many of us are striving to qualify for constantly. How can you go through life believing that this is it?
"A proud man is always looking down on things and people; and, of course, as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity. Do yourself a big favor & read the book.

There are some places in scripture where tragedy causes a person to believe, such as Paul's conversion. Most of the time people became believers because they saw miracles of love when people were healed, fed, raised from the dead, protected from "religious" people who wanted to punish them, and so on.

IMO no intellectual gets converted by threats that God will punish them. The good news is that God is love, and He wants to bridge the gap a brilliant mind can create-- faith is the substance that goes in that gap.

[Parker]

I did misunderstand your first post. We say the same thing from differing vantages. In your view, if I get you, faith is not a heritage, but a choice made only by volition of the individual.
In my experience, with no birthright of faith, I came to define blind faith differently than you are saying. It was not handed down to me, and so faith is the moment I chose to believe in what I could not prove by logic; therefore trusting in a realm which my mind, however keen, could not see into nor fathom, nor comprehend.


For me, faith makes sense and is logical, based on what I see and understand of the world/nature. I know we all come to it differently, and that is okay. Those who strive are worth knowing.

[quirky3]

Saw this today and felt that it relates to this conversation....

[Golfingnut]

Saw this today and felt that it relates to this conversation....

Wow, then I lose both ways. I need to do something just in case heii exits. LOL

[rubicon]

Hubris is what drives some people to deny God or something greater than themselves.

Some are caught in the middle of cognitive dissonance vis a vis blind faith

As a general statement most people are spiritual in nature and sense something is grater then themselves

The message sent from this boy and many other with near death experiences is a gift and I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Clearly technology assisted in bringing these people back from death. We are all products of our DNA and our DNA makes us who we are be it artist or scientist. Is DNA just an evolutionary byproduct of happenstance? or intellectual design? In other words did God provide the technology to assist in bringing back these people? Did He do it to let us know He cares? Or is it just randomness? having no meaning?

If at the moment of my last breath I experience the light shining upon me, I will consider myself fortunate indeed no matter what follows

[kittygilchrist]

bible list of people coming back from dead.
Resurrection: Bible Characters Raised from the Dead (http://www.pathlightspress.com/resurrection.html)

Article mentions Jesus as resurrecting too....but everybody knows he didn't give a hoot about laws of nature.

[Shimpy]

[quote=Shimpy;868659]

We are all born with original sin via Adam & Eve, who committed their sins in the Garden of Eden, and as a result we (the whole entire population on earth) are born with that "sin nature". As a result we all need a Saviour (Jesus Christ Peace in Christ


Doesn't sound like a loving god to me. So in your belief, a woman thousands of years ago simply ate an apple and now newborns have to be saved for their sins.....really?..... A newborn baby is the most precious thing in the world and how can you say they will go to hell through no fault of their own? Is there anything more innocent than a new born baby in this world? You have them quilty for just being born. Your God gave you the ability to think and reason and realize that not everything written in a 2000 year old book translated hundreds of times is fact. We were given common sense for a reason.

[Golfingnut]

[quote=tucson;868674]


Doesn't sound like a loving god to me. So in your belief, a woman thousands of years ago simply ate an apple and now newborns have to be saved for their sins.....really?..... A newborn baby is the most precious thing in the world and how can you say they will go to hell through no fault of their own? Is there anything more innocent than a new born baby in this world? You have them quilty for just being born. Your God gave you the ability to think and reason and realize that not everything written in a 2000 year old book translated hundreds of times is fact. We were given common sense for a reason.

I think back then, god was tired from building the earth in 7 days, but when Jesus came and delivered the sermon on the mount, that was the words that God would have said if he had not been exhausted. Jesus is god to me and his teachings are what we all should follow.

[tucson]

[quote=tucson;868674]


Doesn't sound like a loving god to me. So in your belief, a woman thousands of years ago simply ate an apple and now newborns have to be saved for their sins.....really?..... A newborn baby is the most precious thing in the world and how can you say they will go to hell through no fault of their own? Is there anything more innocent than a new born baby in this world? You have them quilty for just being born. Your God gave you the ability to think and reason and realize that not everything written in a 2000 year old book translated hundreds of times is fact. We were given common sense for a reason.

I did not say that a newborn baby will go to hell...if a child dies, they immediately go to heaven, there is an "age of accountability" in which a person knows that there is a God and their conscience speaks to them of sin and salvation through Jesus Christ ... common sense will not give you eternal life, only faith in Christ as Lord and Saviour of your life will...I know God exists and He is more real to me than anything...and also the Bible says I am very blessed when I am mocked for His sake...:-)

[Shimpy]

[quote=Shimpy;869202]

..I know God exists and He is more real to me than anything...and also the Bible says I am very blessed when I am mocked for His sake...:-)



The bible is the word of God...How do we know this? Because the bible says it is. As has been said before, the bible would not stand up in a court of law.
I have my opinions based on logic and reason and you have yours based on blind faith from a book written thousands of years ago chisled in stone, transulated hundreds of times. It was written when there was no such thing as science, thus beliefs in rain gods, sun gods, etc. They couldnt explain what was happening because they didn't have the knowledge.
This will be the end of our discussion because you chose to believe what has been preached to you and not listen to reason and I chose to look at science, facts, and logic.
No hard feelings Tucson and I know keeping the faith will keep you comfortable, and I'm happy with that. I have no intention of converting anyone.

[SantaClaus]

I would not attempt to answer where scripture is silent. The sin-guilt of an infant is a distraction for someone who does not want to deal with areas where scripture is clarion-clear: that every one who might hear the gospel finds themselves in the same condition, utterly guilty of having willfully sinned and incapable of mitigating it so that they can stand blameless before a holy God. It's actually quite common for people to resist the idea of "federal headship" when it comes to imputed guilt from Adam, but happily receptive when it comes to imputed righteousness from the new Adam, our adopted head, Christ.

[Steve & Deanna]

We saw God's Not Dead and plan on seeing Heaven Is For Real. I believe these 'faith' films are as controversial as those that belittle them want them to be. I remember Frank Rich (NY columnist) was stating that Mel Gibson's The Passion of The Christ promoted anti-Semitism (Rich is of the Jewish faith). He was then asked if he had seen the film to which he replied no. That ended the conversation. My point is that it's hard to judge a film until you have seen it....oh, and to those that say ooooo, Mel Gibson, let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Accomplished actor and director in my opinion.

[kittygilchrist]

[quote=tucson;869220]



The bible is the word of God...How do we know this? Because the bible says it is. As has been said before, the bible would not stand up in a court of law.
I have my opinions based on logic and reason and you have yours based on blind faith from a book written thousands of years ago chisled in stone, transulated hundreds of times. It was written when there was no such thing as science, thus beliefs in rain gods, sun gods, etc. They couldnt explain what was happening because they didn't have the knowledge.
This will be the end of our discussion because you chose to believe what has been preached to you and not listen to reason and I chose to look at science, facts, and logic.
No hard feelings Tucson and I know keeping the faith will keep you comfortable, and I'm happy with that. I have no intention of converting anyone.

This post provoked me to find a Bible description of a judge:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns...And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty God.
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
:read: Rev. 19

That's a pretty impressive court of law, wouldn't you say?

[graciegirl]

I haven't seen heaven, but I feel it's real. I have held my newborn child against my face and knew her. Knew that this person who I had just met I had somehow always known. The miracle of her echoed into something deep inside me that had lived forever. I can't explain heaven, but I know that if the universe is infinite, how did it create itself? I can't defend the tenants of a place after death because I have not died, but I have descended into the dark abyss of despair and hopelessness and found hope again. I have needed to help others and could not do it with money or food or physical work and so I prayed. I needed to pray and praying may have helped. It didn't hurt.


I long for there to be a heaven and thinking there might me one gives me peace. Not totally believing, being a bit skeptical doesn't offend God if he is. He loves me the way I loved my newborn baby.

[Parker]

I haven't seen heaven, but I feel it's real. I have held my newborn child against my face and knew her. Knew that this person who I had just met I had somehow always known. The miracle of her echoed into something deep inside me that had lived forever. I can't explain heaven, but I know that if the universe is infinite, how did it create itself? I can't defend the tenants of a place after death because I have not died, but I have descended into the dark abyss of despair and hopelessness and found hope again. I have needed to help others and could not do it with money or food or physical work and so I prayed. I needed to pray and praying may have helped. It didn't hurt.


I long for there to be a heaven and thinking there might me one gives me peace. Not totally believing, being a bit skeptical doesn't offend God if he is. He loves me the way I loved my newborn baby.


What a beautiful post. Yes, babies and nature answer many questions for me about God.

[bluedog103]

I haven't seen heaven, but I feel it's real. I have held my newborn child against my face and knew her. Knew that this person who I had just met I had somehow always known. The miracle of her echoed into something deep inside me that had lived forever. I can't explain heaven, but I know that if the universe is infinite, how did it create itself? I can't defend the tenants of a place after death because I have not died, but I have descended into the dark abyss of despair and hopelessness and found hope again. I have needed to help others and could not do it with money or food or physical work and so I prayed. I needed to pray and praying may have helped. It didn't hurt.


I long for there to be a heaven and thinking there might me one gives me peace. Not totally believing, being a bit skeptical doesn't offend God if he is. He loves me the way I loved my newborn baby.
I usually don't read threads debating the existence of God or the validity of religion because I become irritated by the rants of the non believers. Gracie, I'm glad I followed this one. Thanks!

[Villages PL]

I usually don't read threads debating the existence of God or the validity of religion because I become irritated by the rants of the non believers. Gracie, I'm glad I followed this one. Thanks!

I'm glad you posted because it gives me a chance to explain something about this thread. This thread was not intended to be a debate about the existence of God or the validity of religion.

The motivation for this thread was the fact that I heard the boy, from the story, being interviewed on the radio and the interview left me feeling skeptical. In other words, skeptical about the boy's story and the father's ability to sort things out based on what he said. That was my honest opinion, right or wrong.

I think there's some confusion here; there's a difference between faith in God and faith in the the author of the story. For example, whether or not one feels the story is accurate is independent of one's faith in God.

My lack of faith is in the people who tell these types of stories. I don't know them personally so I have no way of knowing whether they are being honest or accurate.

There have been highly respected ministers who have cheated those who believed in them. The one I'm thinking of is Jim Bakker (Remember Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker). They lost their TV ministry after a series of sex and money scandals. As I understand it, many of his followers were defrauded because they had faith in him as a man of God. He cheated his followers out of $158 million.

[Polar Bear]

...I long for there to be a heaven and thinking there might me one gives me peace. Not totally believing, being a bit skeptical doesn't offend God if he is. He loves me the way I loved my newborn baby.

These discussions, and your post especially gracie, always remind me of one of my favorite quotes, taken from The Sparrow, by Mary Doria Russell. Speaking of a priest in the book, she says...

"He was aware of his agnosticism, and patient with it. Rather than deny the existence of something he couldn't perceive himself, he acknowledged the authenticity of his uncertainty and carried on, praying in the face of his doubt."

[Doctommft]

I have read of atheists who had near-death experiences. I'm sure that they struggled with the question, was it a dream, or was it "real"? An esoteric question for sure. However, the similarity of stories at a time when disclosures were rare leads one to believe it as "real". Many folks who have near-death experiences don't disclose because of their own confusion as well as their fear of being labeled as crazy.

Many of those who have had a near-death experience have no fear of dying. Their lives and the lives of their family members have had a significant experience that they will never deny. You could never change their beliefs with all your logic and science.

Regarding the return, I heard this story first hand where the father of a one year old was given a choice to return. He then had the image of his son in his mind (God saw this) and was immediately returned to his hospital bed. He held it a secret from 1980 to 2001 even from his wife. After his divorce he discussed it in a church Alpha program. The group leader changed the subject and he rarely spoke of it again. I was fortunate to have his trust.

[bluedog103]

I'm glad you posted because it gives me a chance to explain something about this thread. This thread was not intended to be a debate about the existence of God or the validity of religion.

The motivation for this thread was the fact that I heard the boy, from the story, being interviewed on the radio and the interview left me feeling skeptical. In other words, skeptical about the boy's story and the father's ability to sort things out based on what he said. That was my honest opinion, right or wrong.

I think there's some confusion here; there's a difference between faith in God and faith in the the author of the story. For example, whether or not one feels the story is accurate is independent of one's faith in God.

My lack of faith is in the people who tell these types of stories. I don't know them personally so I have no way of knowing whether they are being honest or accurate.

There have been highly respected ministers who have cheated those who believed in them. The one I'm thinking of is Jim Bakker (Remember Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker). They lost their TV ministry after a series of sex and money scandals. As I understand it, many of his followers were defrauded because they had faith in him as a man of God. He cheated his followers out of $158 million.
Excellent post. Thanks for the explanation.

[Hacker1]

Being that you read the book and saw the movie, will you please tell me why God first took the boy's soul up to heaven and then sent it back?
Probably to encourage you to start this thread, start all this great discussion, perhaps raise awareness and hope that there really is a God and a Heaven.

[Villages PL]

I saw the movie last night and noticed a contradiction. When the boy saw his father's grandfather in heaven, he saw him as a young man. The boy's father thought that was strange so the boy explained that everyone in heaven is young. Then when he saw his sister who had died at child birth, she was about 4 years old. So she got older. She went from 0 to 4 years old. What was the point of that? Why do some get younger in heaven while others get older? Will she keep getting older until she's as old as her great grandfather?