500 hundred dollars times 50,000 homes is 25 million dollars

[CSwofford147@comcast.net]

At this point the solution to this sinkhole problem is all that matters. With all the people and all the talent of the people in the Villages it is hard to imagine that a solution can not be found. 500 dollars times 50,000 homes is 25 million dollars. It would seem that somewhere in that equation things could be worked out. Solving the problem is what is important. No one in the Villages should be subject to the kind of financial exposure that this problem can present. People should work together to help each other out which is the Villages Sprit

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by perrjojo https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/images/talkofthevillages/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/what-happens-property-values-neighborhoods-near-sinkhole-activity-112224/index9.html#post868426) Connie Wise Duff agency in TV at 352-259-0900..Julie is our agent. We have always had State Farm until moving here two years ago and had to go with another company. We just switched back yesterday. They are insuring new and existing. You must have and inspection which cost $60. Their rates are higher than our previous company.

I don't understand your post, Mr. Swofford.

[Barefoot]

At this point the solution to this sinkhole problem is all that matters. With all the people and all the talent of the people in the Villages it is hard to imagine that a solution can not be found. 500 dollars times 50,000 homes is 25 million dollars. It would seem that somewhere in that equation things could be worked out. Solving the problem is what is important. No one in the Villages should be subject to the kind of financial exposure that this problem can present. People should work together to help each other out which is the Villages Sprit

Are you saying that the Developer who profited from selling homes in The Villages should be responsible if a home develops a sinkhole? I do understand that the financial repercussions of a sinkhole can be devastating, not only to the home owner, but to the entire neighborhood.

I'm not disagreeing with your thoughts, I'm just wondering if I understand your post.

[gustavo]

Are you saying that the Developer who profited from selling homes in The Villages should be responsible if a home develops a sinkhole? I do understand that the financial repercussions of a sinkhole can be devastating, not only to the home owner, but to the entire neighborhood.

I'm not disagreeing with your thoughts, I'm just wondering if I understand your post.

I think the OP is saying each household pony up $500 and self insure. I'm in as long as I get the top job at $250k per year to determine who gets a payout. Or just let insurance companies handle it, I have a tee time to keep.

[dirtbanker]

At this point the solution to this sinkhole problem is all that matters. With all the people and all the talent of the people in the Villages it is hard to imagine that a solution can not be found.
Tons of people, with tons of talent. Sinkholes have been known to frequent Florida for sometime now. It appears the sinkholes might be influenced by mother nature. Well it has been hard to predict mother nature over the last couple years (maybe more). We have certainly seen some "not the usual" weather all across the country for a couple years.


500 dollars times 50,000 homes is 25 million dollars. It would seem that somewhere in that equation things could be worked out. Solving the problem is what is important.

Well it only took you short order to decide what was the correct amount for me to pay towards this "pet project" of yours.:22yikes: I doubt anyone can solve the problem (unless we move all the homes north of Florida, but then the weather is not so good).

No one in the Villages should be subject to the kind of financial exposure that this problem can present. People should work together to help each other out which is the Villages Sprit


If all spirited residents banned together (potentially 100,000 people) against the insurance companies....they might just laugh and charge us more, do you believe we have a choice?

[Indydealmaker]

At this point the solution to this sinkhole problem is all that matters. With all the people and all the talent of the people in the Villages it is hard to imagine that a solution can not be found. 500 dollars times 50,000 homes is 25 million dollars. It would seem that somewhere in that equation things could be worked out. Solving the problem is what is important. No one in the Villages should be subject to the kind of financial exposure that this problem can present. People should work together to help each other out which is the Villages Sprit

This is not a problem unique to The Villages. Nor is it unique to central Florida. Residents of all areas are at risk for such acts of God, just like earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, forest fires, floods. No one should be subject to such financial risk. But it is what it is. You cannot live your life in fear. All you can do is tackle one challenge at a time.

I am not saying that your idea is bad, because it has merit. I am just saying we should take a deep breath and evaluate the real risk. Gather some data. Observe trends.

Also if you could get ALL homeowners to chip in each year, that would cover remediation for about 200-300 homes per year. ( a buddy of mine in Spring Hill just paid $125,000 to fix his sink hole) The math would definitely make it a harder sell. Not impossible but... The fund could be assembled to help pay the deductibles for a super high deductible policy covering all of The Villages, but that is tantamount to what is already in existence by insuring each home individually. A lot to think about, but in the meantime, just get insured.

[2BNTV]

At this point the solution to this sinkhole problem is all that matters. With all the people and all the talent of the people in the Villages it is hard to imagine that a solution can not be found. 500 dollars times 50,000 homes is 25 million dollars. It would seem that somewhere in that equation things could be worked out. Solving the problem is what is important. No one in the Villages should be subject to the kind of financial exposure that this problem can present. People should work together to help each other out which is the Villages Sprit

It would be nice to have elabotrated on the real intent of this post, as TOTV people, will only try to surmise what was meant. Reading between the lines, is murky, at best.

It would be heaven, to not have had a sinkhole problem, anywhere.
Every area of the country has a weather problem, that needs to be addressed, from time to time.

We all have some level of concern, but nothing would ever stop me, from living in TV. That's me, and another hundred thousand people. :smiley:

[twinklesweep]

Are you saying that the Developer who profited from selling homes in The Villages should be responsible if a home develops a sinkhole? I do understand that the financial repercussions of a sinkhole can be devastating, not only to the home owner, but to the entire neighborhood.

I'm not disagreeing with your thoughts, I'm just wondering if I understand your post.

The developer is a businessman, not a charitable organization. He is in business to make money, period, and he does so by selling a quality product that up to this point has consistently been in high demand. I would think that most Villagers bought here in recognition of the quality of the product being offered, with sinkholes NOT being a part of the equation (and they are certainly NOT limited to TV).

Now, if as a businessman he CHOOSES to show character and compassion by offering financial support to the small handful of Villagers who are directly impacted by a sinkhole, that is entirely up to him. Think, for example, of the woman with her $21,600 sinkhole deductible reported in the Village News, an excellent online source that is achieving higher and higher circulation and that helps balance the philosophy of the printed Daily Sun. How many Villagers are in a position to pony up a figure like this easily? However, he is certainly not OBLIGED to do so. There is certainly precedence for highly successful business people doing so (for example, Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, and others with their foundations in the present; Andrew Carnegie with his libraries in the past).

However, if he is “inspired” to show character and compassion to these folks by, say, the power of the Internet and its ability to disseminate information extremely rapidly and extremely intensively affecting his sales and thus his profits, I doubt anyone with a sinkhole in her or his backyard would turn down help dealing with an extremely high deductible. Granted this would not solve the overall sinkhole problem, which goes well beyond the boundaries of TV, but it would certainly aid him in the public relations area!

Beyond this, we’re on our own, keeping in mind the point of view of Benjamin Franklin, who suggested, “We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately!” But that is entirely up to us….

[JP]

I think self insuring is a great idea.

My former association did it for our malpractice coverage(the American Association of Orthodontists) and it saved me thousands over the years.

Probably the biggest factor would be getting enough people to buy it. If you could get everyone to chip in, i.e. make it mandatory, for a one time fee of $500 they would never need to pay anything again since that would generate $25,000,000 that could easily support an "administrator" etc. on just the investment interest it would generate.

I think the hard part of the whole idea would be the mandatory part. This is still a free country, although sometimes it seems less and less that way, and there would be numbers of people that would not want any part of it.

[elizabeth52]

This would be an excellent solution to a problem IF, as was indicated to me by a couple of insurance carriers that I contacted on Friday, secondary sinkhole insurance goes away completely in the near future.

Again, if that were the case, all of Florida, not just the Villages, would be affected. But the sheer numbers of the residents in the Villages would make this possible.

Perhaps the question should be posed "if there was no secondary sinkhole insurance available, would you...?"

I would...and I'd even pay more into the pot.

[gustavo]

I think self insuring is a great idea.

My former association did it for our malpractice coverage(the American Association of Orthodontists) and it saved me thousands over the years.

Probably the biggest factor would be getting enough people to buy it. If you could get everyone to chip in, i.e. make it mandatory, for a one time fee of $500 they would never need to pay anything again since that would generate $25,000,000 that could easily support an "administrator" etc. on just the investment interest it would generate.

I think the hard part of the whole idea would be the mandatory part. This is still a free country, although sometimes it seems less and less that way, and there would be numbers of people that would not want any part of it.


Ok, I'm in but I want to be the administrator. I think $250k year is fair but I would only be available to adminsiter Monday and Wednesday and I need 6 weeks off in the summer and 12 holidays. Did I forget to mention I want full health care. Thanks for the great idea.

[Cathy H]

Imagine if it started all over again from the beginning and the land owner decided to drill a pattern of borings to determine if the geology was safe from sinkholes and if some were found he filled them before developing the area. That's what builders of bridges and large buildings do.

[njbchbum]

Imagine if it started all over again from the beginning and the land owner decided to drill a pattern of borings to determine if the geology was safe from sinkholes and if some were found he filled them before developing the area. That's what builders of bridges and large buildings do.

But since Florida's limestone and other materials underground degrade over time - and a long time at that - how often will you be requiring those test borings?

[rubicon]

This would be an excellent solution to a problem IF, as was indicated to me by a couple of insurance carriers that I contacted on Friday, secondary sinkhole insurance goes away completely in the near future.

Again, if that were the case, all of Florida, not just the Villages, would be affected. But the sheer numbers of the residents in the Villages would make this possible.

Perhaps the question should be posed "if there was no secondary sinkhole insurance available, would you...?"

I would...and I'd even pay more into the pot.

Elizabeth 52. what does secondary sinkhole insurance goes away in the near future mean?".

Secondly if one had both sinkhole coverage from insurance company and self-insured with village residents what would pay first?

Setting up a self-insured fund requires quite a bit of state regulations, etc It also includes errors and omission insurance liability insurance accounting requirements and audits, etc

[ssmith]

Cathy H, I do agree with Beachbum though,,,,what may not be found today would not hold true tomorrow....ie erosion adn the amount of rain affects the presence and progress of a sinkhole area.

Also, wonder about who determines if a claim would be legit or not...some would be obvious and then there would be some that would want compensation for cracks and normal settling.

Also with large sums of money, you have to be careful about who does administer it and how does that person get compensated for their time etc. I have seen people give large sums of money to an organization to be designated for something and before you know that are many concocted stories and reasons for others to get their hands on it.

Also in regards to the developer, he has no obligation to give his money for this. It may seem like a great thing for him to do but you know there have been lawsuits against him whether justified or not and it may be that he is not in so gracious a mood toward the Villagers either. I don't the family so I can't speak for them.

It would be great if this could be implemented though.

[JP]

Ok, I'm in but I want to be the administrator. I think $250k year is fair but I would only be available to adminsiter Monday and Wednesday and I need 6 weeks off in the summer and 12 holidays. Did I forget to mention I want full health care. Thanks for the great idea.

You have to be realistic. It worked great for our association but it was all set up legally which really wouldn't be that much of a problem if someone decided to do it.

[perrjojo]

Imagine if it started all over again from the beginning and the land owner decided to drill a pattern of borings to determine if the geology was safe from sinkholes and if some were found he filled them before developing the area. That's what builders of bridges and large buildings do.

I recently inquired and each site would cost at least $10,000 to test. That would add at least $10,000 to the cost of each home or if before one made the purchase they could have the 10,000 test done. As another poster suggested...just because it is safe TODAY, it could change over time.

[elizabeth52]

Elizabeth 52. what does secondary sinkhole insurance goes away in the near future mean?".

Secondly if one had both sinkhole coverage from insurance company and self-insured with village residents what would pay first?

Setting up a self-insured fund requires quite a bit of state regulations, etc It also includes errors and omission insurance liability insurance accounting requirements and audits, etc

All homeowner's policies are required by law to have catastrophic ground collapse. What I am referring to as secondary (my words, not the insurance co.) is the additional sinkhole insurance that you may currently have. Some have mention that there is a high deductible associated with it. I was told by Allstate that they believe sinkhole insurance will soon become a thing of the past.

So, I'm saying this would be a great solution if sinkhole insurance were no longer offered.

[Bonanza]

[QUOTE=twinklesweep;868817]The developer is a businessman, not a charitable organization. He is in business to make money, period, and he does so by selling a quality product that up to this point has consistently been in high demand. I would think that most Villagers bought here in recognition of the quality of the product being offered, with sinkholes NOT being a part of the equation (and they are certainly NOT limited to TV).QUOTE]

While my comment is not the gist of most of yours, I must respond to you saying that we are living in a "quality" home.

You are correct -- Mr. Morse is a true businessman -- a very, very shrewd businessman. He has his hands in everything -- far more than just our houses, and not even just limited to the geographical area of TV. He put in all the right eye-candy here to attract buyers, and it has worked.

The majority of residents are living here because of the quality of the lifestyle available here, not the quality of the construction. The contractors and subcontractors are under tight controls, and unfortunately, we do not always get a top notch job because they are forced to squeeze the almighty dollar so tightly. We are not here because of the quality of the construction which is, unfortunately, just average.

On the plus side, we knew most of this before we signed on the dotted line and with it all, are happy to be here. I will also note that there are far more sinkholes in the Ocala area than we have here. Thankfully, what has happened here has been minimal, although I feel so sorry for those who have had to deal with that problem.

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=twinklesweep;868817]The developer is a businessman, not a charitable organization. He is in business to make money, period, and he does so by selling a quality product that up to this point has consistently been in high demand. I would think that most Villagers bought here in recognition of the quality of the product being offered, with sinkholes NOT being a part of the equation (and they are certainly NOT limited to TV).QUOTE]

While my comment is not the gist of most of yours, I must respond to you saying that we are living in a "quality" home.

You are correct -- Mr. Morse is a true businessman -- a very, very shrewd businessman. He has his hands in everything -- far more than just our houses, and not even just limited to the geographical area of TV. He put in all the right eye-candy here to attract buyers, and it has worked.

The majority of residents are living here because of the quality of the lifestyle available here, not the quality of the construction. The contractors and subcontractors are under tight controls, and unfortunately, we do not always get a top notch job because they are forced to squeeze the almighty dollar so tightly. We are not here because of the quality of the construction which is, unfortunately, just average.

On the plus side, we knew most of this before we signed on the dotted line and with it all, are happy to be here. I will also note that there are far more sinkholes in the Ocala area than we have here. Thankfully, what has happened here has been minimal, although I feel so sorry for those who have had to deal with that problem.


On what do you base this statement? When they were building our home here which we visited daily, the builder required a subrep contractor to rip out quite a lot of tile in the kitchen and redo it. He also required another contractor to remove stone and cap plates on the front of the house. At the end of the process a team of "caulkers" sealed ever line along baseboard etc. with caulking. I never saw that before. We are not strangers to having homes built. Our last two in Cincinnati were custom built by a very reputable builder and the process here was superior. Warranty is amazing. Their teams of contractors and subreps have been with them for a long time and the building of a home here is so much fun to watch. It is like a well choreographed ballet with materials for the next days work being delivered the night before. It isn't done by the same group of people but groups experienced in different facets of building. One day we counted 30 different workers on the roof, in the interior etc.

[Bonanza]

[quote=Bonanza;869416]


On what do you base this statement? When they were building our home here which we visited daily, the builder required a subrep contractor to rip out quite a lot of tile in the kitchen and redo it. He also required another contractor to remove stone and cap plates on the front of the house. At the end of the process a team of "caulkers" sealed ever line along baseboard etc. with caulking. I never saw that before. We are not strangers to having homes built. Our last two in Cincinnati were custom built by a very reputable builder and the process here was superior. Warranty is amazing. Their teams of contractors and subreps have been with them for a long time and the building of a home here is so much fun to watch. It is like a well choreographed ballet with materials for the next days work being delivered the night before. It isn't done by the same group of people but groups experienced in different facets of building. One day we counted 30 different workers on the roof, in the interior etc.

Gracie -- I guess we are each basing the standard of construction here on previous experiences and products, and a little bit of basic knowledge we've acquired as our homes were built.

We, too, have been involved in building four new houses, one of which was custom. The one year warranty we receive is pretty standard and is usually given by any reputable builder. However, I have spoken to some homeowners who feel that there are differences in opinions as to what the warranty should cover but doesn't. A couple of examples are flooring (specifically tile) and the grading of lots (i.e., poor drainage -- big time!).

The roof overhang is less than a standard depth for Florida, relating to protection from the sun. Premier homes have an extra couple of inches, but still not enough. The lack of gutters completely around the house because of heavy seasonal rains is non-existent. Metal studs only, are used throughout; no wood whatsoever. Minimum width wallboard/sheetrock is standard. Blown-in insulation in the attic and not batting is standard and no attic steps are provided. A good-for-nothing 1" deep vanity drawer in the master bathroom??? A single oven is installed as standard, in a double oven cabinet with large spaces above and below the oven; looks terrible.

I see corners cut and many standard things that are cheaply done. Designer switches are installed throughout, but the outlets are the old style type, not the matching designer outlets. We are in a newer home and perhaps some of the older ones were better built; I don't know??? Truthfully, I have never seen baseboard molding that was not caulked. All the subcontractors should be different and experienced in the specific trade they know.

We have accepted some of these things because we have to. And if you want to live here that how it is. But I would never agree that the quality of our homes is exceptional or anything close to that.

[LndLocked]

[quote=graciegirl;869***]

Gracie -- I guess we are each basing the standard of construction here on previous experiences and products, and a little bit of basic knowledge we've acquired as our homes were built.

We, too, have been involved in building four new houses, one of which was custom. The one year warranty we receive is pretty standard and is usually given by any reputable builder. However, I have spoken to some homeowners who feel that there are differences in opinions as to what the warranty should cover but doesn't. A couple of examples are flooring (specifically tile) and the grading of lots (i.e., poor drainage -- big time!).

The roof overhang is less than a standard depth for Florida, relating to protection from the sun. Premier homes have an extra couple of inches, but still not enough. The lack of gutters completely around the house because of heavy seasonal rains is non-existent. Metal studs only, are used throughout; no wood whatsoever. Minimum width wallboard/sheetrock is standard. Blown-in insulation in the attic and not batting is standard and no attic steps are provided. A good-for-nothing 1" deep vanity drawer in the master bathroom??? A single oven is installed as standard, in a double oven cabinet with large spaces above and below the oven; looks terrible.

I see corners cut and many standard things that are cheaply done. Designer switches are installed throughout, but the outlets are the old style type, not the matching designer outlets. We are in a newer home and perhaps some of the older ones were better built; I don't know??? Truthfully, I have never seen baseboard molding that was not caulked. All the subcontractors should be different and experienced in the specific trade they know.

We have accepted some of these things because we have to. And if you want to live here that how it is. But I would never agree that the quality of our homes is exceptional or anything close to that.

In general I agree with the above .... houses in TV are built at about the same level of quality as the overwhelming % of developments / developers in Florida (within comparable price ranges) ... no better and no worse.

But as for the wood - vs - metal studs. Any and all load bearing, framed walls use wood studs only.

[looneycat]

At this point the solution to this sinkhole problem is all that matters. With all the people and all the talent of the people in the Villages it is hard to imagine that a solution can not be found. 500 dollars times 50,000 homes is 25 million dollars. It would seem that somewhere in that equation things could be worked out. Solving the problem is what is important. No one in the Villages should be subject to the kind of financial exposure that this problem can present. People should work together to help each other out which is the Villages Sprit

ridiculous

[shcisamax]

I brought this up over a year ago and thought $100 annually would work to which I received endless reasons why this wouldn't work...lots of blah blah blah. I guess now that there seems to be more incidence of sinkholes, people are beginning to see the value of self insuring. I'm in.

[Patty55]

I would like to volunteer to hold the cash.:pepper2:

[Bonanza]

I would like to volunteer to hold the cash.:pepper2:

May I have the second key to your safety deposit box???

[Bonanza]

[quote=Bonanza;870035]

In general I agree with the above .... houses in TV are built at about the same level of quality as the overwhelming % of developments / developers in Florida (within comparable price ranges) ... no better and no worse.

But as for the wood - vs - metal studs. Any and all load bearing, framed walls use wood studs only.

We paid an upcharge for all wood studs throughout.
No steel studs whatsoever.

[Bonanza]

At this point the solution to this sinkhole problem is all that matters. With all the people and all the talent of the people in the Villages it is hard to imagine that a solution can not be found. 500 dollars times 50,000 homes is 25 million dollars. It would seem that somewhere in that equation things could be worked out. Solving the problem is what is important. No one in the Villages should be subject to the kind of financial exposure that this problem can present. People should work together to help each other out which is the Villages Sprit

I'm not quite sure what you mean
when you say with all the people, etc., "a solution cannot be found."

Do you mean that we should be self-insured
by everyone chipping in $500?
That doesn't sound possible, to me.

I don't really know how The Village people
could work together to help one another in this case.

Wishful thinking, perhaps?

[Bonanza]

***

[mickey100]

[quote=graciegirl;869***]

...

We, too, have been involved in building four new houses, one of which was custom. The one year warranty we receive is pretty standard and is usually given by any reputable builder. However, I have spoken to some homeowners who feel that there are differences in opinions as to what the warranty should cover but doesn't. A couple of examples are flooring (specifically tile) and the grading of lots (i.e., poor drainage -- big time!).

The roof overhang is less than a standard depth for Florida, relating to protection from the sun. Premier homes have an extra couple of inches, but still not enough. The lack of gutters completely around the house because of heavy seasonal rains is non-existent. Metal studs only, are used throughout; no wood whatsoever. Minimum width wallboard/sheetrock is standard. Blown-in insulation in the attic and not batting is standard and no attic steps are provided. A good-for-nothing 1" deep vanity drawer in the master bathroom??? A single oven is installed as standard, in a double oven cabinet with large spaces above and below the oven; looks terrible.

I see corners cut and many standard things that are cheaply done. Designer switches are installed throughout, but the outlets are the old style type, not the matching designer outlets. We are in a newer home and perhaps some of the older ones were better built; I don't know??? Truthfully, I have never seen baseboard molding that was not caulked. All the subcontractors should be different and experienced in the specific trade they know.

We have accepted some of these things because we have to. And if you want to live here that how it is. But I would never agree that the quality of our homes is exceptional or anything close to that.

I have to agree with you on this one. As much as we love living in The Villages, the quality of the homes is average at best. Caulk is used to hide mistakes. We were looking at some new premier homes the other day, and the use of caulk in places like the kitchen was obvious. The cabinetry in the kitchen was not the quality I would expect in a premier home, nor was the tile. And don't get me going on the concrete work. The concrete has so much slump when they pour it, no wonder there is cracking. And I really can't believe they don't put gutters on the homes. Everyone I know has had to pay extra to have a company come in and do that. I'd advise anyone buying a home to look things over very carefully and make sure you get your requests for repairs into home warranty within the specified period.

[graciegirl]

Boy Howdy.


Showing Termite protection sprayed on.


Showing caulk on top and bottom of all moldings throughout home.

[Pointer]

Keep it simple. If one quarter of the TV people donated $1 or $2, that would help out quite a bit no? Could just be divided equally between these two home owners.

[graciegirl]

Keep it simple. If one quarter of the TV people donated $1 or $2, that would help out quite a bit no? Could just be divided equally between these two home owners.


In Cincinnati, one of our local banks collected and dispersed donations for just this kind of thing. It was for individuals due to no fault of their own who were blindsided with huge bills.


I suppose that a sinkhole relief fund could be established in a similar way.