Popes John XXIII and John Paul II

[Golfingnut]

I am concerned about the use of so much money for the Popes John XXIII and John Paul II Canonization. I would rather see a world day of feeding the poor in honor of This special recognition.

[DougB]

It costs a lot of money to make someone a saint. You ever see Drew Brees' contract?

[kittygilchrist]

LOL! both of you!
How about a world day of donating your beer money?:throwtomatoes:

[Chi-Town]

DougB, that was beautiful.

[dewilson58]

It costs a lot of money to make someone a saint. You ever see Drew Brees' contract?

The good thing is, we are all Saints. Rome does not make Saints, God already did.

[pooh]

April 27, 2014....a Very Special day!

[rubicon]

I agree with the OP. I also believe we should stop presidential senate and congressional campaigning. We should also stop every entertainment and sports award show, super bowl etcStop Christmas, St patricks Day, MLK day Valentine Day, July 4th. People should stop going to parties, town square etc and if all that happened we could give it to the poor and then we would have to start all over again because they still be poor that 's what happens when you provide perpetual welfare to people. Essentially the OP is discussing income inequality which fosters one of the seven sins in the bible (envy). It doesn't matter to me if a man is successful and rich as long as its honest in the making

[Golfingnut]

I agree with the OP. I also believe we should stop presidential senate and congressional campaigning. We should also stop every entertainment and sports award show, super bowl etcStop Christmas, St patricks Day, MLK day Valentine Day, July 4th. People should stop going to parties, town square etc and if all that happened we could give it to the poor and then we would have to start all over again because they still be poor that 's what happens when you provide perpetual welfare to people. Essentially the OP is discussing income inequality which fosters one of the seven sins in the bible (envy). It doesn't matter to me if a man is successful and rich as long as its honest in the making
:1rotfl:

:loco:

Their is a big difference between donated money for gods church and sporting events. Gggggggeeeeeeezzzzzz

[Taltarzac725]

I am concerned about the use of so much money for the Popes John XXIII and John Paul II Canonization. I would rather see a world day of feeding the poor in honor of This special recognition.

Papal canonisation: Popes John Paul II and John XXIII declared saints by Pope Francis in historic ceremony - Europe - World - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/papal-canonisation-popes-john-paul-ii-and-john-xxiii-declared-saints-in-historic-ceremony-9293048.html)

What is the accounting on this? Except for the problem of sexual abuse by priests, which, of course, the Catholic Church leadership should have done a lot more about to stop, I cannot see a problem with the celebration of these two Popes. Francis is a Pope I greatly admire. Too bad many of the other hundreds of Popes were not more like him. Luther probably would have not been listened to if we had had more Popes like Francis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes.

[Golfingnut]

Papal canonisation: Popes John Paul II and John XXIII declared saints by Pope Francis in historic ceremony - Europe - World - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/papal-canonisation-popes-john-paul-ii-and-john-xxiii-declared-saints-in-historic-ceremony-9293048.html)

What the accounting on this? Except for the problem of sexual abuse by priests, which, of course, the Catholic Church leadership should have done a lot more about to stop, I cannot see a problem with the celebration of these two Popes. Francis is a Pope I greatly admire. Too bad many of the other hundreds of Popes were not more like him. Luther probably would have not been listened to if we had had more Popes like Francis. List of popes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes).

Last count was at 11 Million dollars. That is a lot of food for the poor.

[dewilson58]

Forget the $11mil, have the Pope distribution the BILLIONS the church has. That would be impressive.

[kittygilchrist]

ruh roh, we got carried away and forgot about the topic. some posts removed, and well done by mod. About the topic, hm, it isn't as much fun as riffing with my friends.

[Bucco]

I agree with the OP. I also believe we should stop presidential senate and congressional campaigning. We should also stop every entertainment and sports award show, super bowl etcStop Christmas, St patricks Day, MLK day Valentine Day, July 4th. People should stop going to parties, town square etc and if all that happened we could give it to the poor and then we would have to start all over again because they still be poor that 's what happens when you provide perpetual welfare to people. Essentially the OP is discussing income inequality which fosters one of the seven sins in the bible (envy). It doesn't matter to me if a man is successful and rich as long as its honest in the making

I think your well aimed sarcasm was not appreciated or understood, but want you to know I appreciate your remarks.....very much.

[Golfingnut]

I think your well aimed sarcasm was not appreciated or understood, but want you to know I appreciate your remarks.....very much.

And I am happy you saw it for what it was.

[graciegirl]

Forget the $11mil, have the Pope distribution the BILLIONS the church has. That would be impressive.
The person or persons who gets to make the decision about how the money is spent is the person or person who is in charge of spending the money.


Now here is a lot of change for a one day event.


CNN — The Broncos and Seahawks aren't the only ones preparing for Sunday's Super Bowl. There's plenty of party planning and plenty of shopping happening ahead of the big game too.
A survey by the National Retail Federation found 181 million Americans plan to tune in for the championship game on Sunday.
To get ready, they'll spend an estimated $12.3B. That's $68.27 on average, just slightly down from the $68.54 they spent last year.
Leading the way, younger consumers. Those 18 to 24 will spend almost $93 on average, and sports fans 25 to 34, more than $100.
The majority of the spending will be on super bowl snacks, 77% of those surveyed said they'll be doing some shopping in the food and beverage aisle for Sunday's game, but some will even be in the market for a new TV, with an estimated 7.7M expected to be purchased around the game.
Another driver of spending, team apparel.
10 million Americans will skip the party planning altogether, and head out to a restaurant or bar to watch the game


The Catholic Church funds Billions to the poor, by the way.

[graciegirl]

Just to add. The pomp and circumstance of traditional ceremonies of all kinds are of interest to many; the crowning of the queen, the canonization of a saint, the swearing in of a president. It is more interesting if it is your Queen, your church or your president. The tradition of doing this is joyful to many. I wouldn't go across the street to see any of it, I hate crowds but for many, it is history in the making.


We don't all have the same interests and persuasions and religion is more important to some than to others. We are all very different people. Whatever floats your boat.

[Golfingnut]

Just to add. The pomp and circumstance of traditional ceremonies of all kinds are of interest to many; the crowning of the queen, the canonization of a saint, the swearing in of a president. It is more interesting if it is your Queen, your church or your president. The tradition of doing this is joyful to many. I wouldn't go across the street to see any of it, I hate crowds but for many, it is history in the making.


We don't all have the same interests and persuasions and religion is more important to some than to others. We are all very different people. Whatever floats your boat.

Point well taken Gracie, especially the " The tradition of doing this is joyful to many". I certainly enjoy ceremonial events that are in line with my personal interests and hobbies. Nice post.

[Bucco]

And I am happy you saw it for what it was.

Yes, it was well worded, well aimed and extremely accurate in its sarcasm of the OP post. Criticisms of spending of the Vatican and aiming it at feeding the poor is a very very shallow and misinformed thought. The money given to the poor by the church is legend.....and pure in that there is no other motives than to feed.

The Catholic Church, and to be sure they are not alone, would dwarf whatever is being used as a yardstick to criticize it.

[Golfingnut]

Yes, it was well worded, well aimed and extremely accurate in its sarcasm of the OP post. Criticisms of spending of the Vatican and aiming it at feeding the poor is a very very shallow and misinformed thought. The money given to the poor by the church is legend.....and pure in that there is no other motives than to feed.

The Catholic Church, and to be sure they are not alone, would dwarf whatever is being used as a yardstick to criticize it.

Well thank you for that wonderful Christian wisdom.

:MOJE_whot:

[Bucco]

Well thank you for that wonderful Christian wisdom.

:MOJE_whot:

And to your point...THERE IS A WORLD FOOD DAY.....it is celebrated in October of each year

[Bucco]

Well thank you for that wonderful Christian wisdom.

:MOJE_whot:

NO WISDOM involved. Just well known FACTS

[skyguy79]

I think your well aimed sarcasm was not appreciated or understood, but want you to know I appreciate your remarks.....very much.Your remarks are spot on! Honest sarcasm is sometimes well deserved and needed, like as it is in this case. But unfortunately, it can also be shamelessly dishonest and way overdone to promote one's own personal beliefs or agenda!

As for my opinion goes on the sainthood, 10 years after ones death is way too soon to fast-track sainthood for not only John Paul II, but for any considerations for sainthood! Here it almost seems to be done in order to make a first ever occurrence of a sitting pope canonizing two former popes, fast-tracking one of them and doing so while another living pope watches on!

[Bucco]

Your remarks are spot on! Honest sarcasm is sometimes well deserved and needed, like as it is in this case. But unfortunately, it can also be shamelessly dishonest and way overdone to promote one's own personal beliefs or agenda!

As for my opinion goes on the sainthood, 10 years after ones death is way too soon to fast-track sainthood for not only John Paul II, but for any considerations for sainthood! Here it almost seems to be done in order to make a first ever occurrence of a sitting pope canonizing two former popes, fast-tracking one of them and doing so while another living pope watches on!


First on your comment concerning the sarcasm...I agree with you totally....most times sarcasm to be successful must be overdone. This pointed out the fallacy of the ....well.....made good points with sarcasm, but yes overdone for sure but that is the point.

I, too, find the haste and rush to sainthood to be rather quick. My education on sainthood seems to say it has to take a longer time, but I am always reminded that the times are a changing.

None of these comments diminish the contributions of these men, but is certainly something a bit different

[ilovetv]

I think the whole concept of bestowing sainthood on mere mortals takes away from this:

15 He (Christ Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

16 For in him were created all things in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created through him and for him.

17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

18 He is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he himself might be preeminent.

scripture (http://www.usccb.org/bible/colossians/1)
----

Matthew 28
18 Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,

20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

scripture (http://www.usccb.org/bible/matthew/28)
--
AND, one believer in Christ is no better and no more honorable than another:

26 For through faith you are all children of God in Christ Jesus.

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christz have clothed yourselves with Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendant, heirs according to the promise.

scripture (http://www.usccb.org/bible/galatians/3)

[Moderator]

Comments are being directed at members. Discussion needs to focus on topic and not at each other.

Moderator

[dewilson58]

Just to add. The pomp and circumstance of traditional ceremonies of all kinds are of interest to many; the crowning of the queen, the canonization of a saint, the swearing in of a president. It is more interesting if it is your Queen, your church or your president. The tradition of doing this is joyful to many. I wouldn't go across the street to see any of it, I hate crowds but for many, it is history in the making.


We don't all have the same interests and persuasions and religion is more important to some than to others. We are all very different people. Whatever floats your boat.

:BigApplause::BigApplause:

[dewilson58]

All Christians are considered saints. All Christian are saints—and at the same time are called to be saints. First Corinthians 1:2 states it clearly: “To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy…” The words “sanctified” and “holy” come from the same Greek root as the word that is commonly translated “saints.” Christians are saints by virtue of their connection with Jesus Christ. Christians are called to be saints, to increasingly allow their daily life to more closely match their position in Christ. This is the biblical description and calling of the saints.

How does the Roman Catholic understanding of “saints” compare with the biblical teaching? Not very well. In Roman Catholic theology, the saints are in heaven. In the Bible, the saints are on earth. In Roman Catholic teaching, a person does not become a saint unless he/she is “beatified” or “canonized” by the Pope or prominent bishop. In the Bible, everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint. In Roman Catholic practice, the saints are revered, prayed to, and in some instances, worshipped. In the Bible, saints are called to revere, worship, and pray to God alone.

[pooh]

The person or persons who gets to make the decision about how the money is spent is the person or person who is in charge of spending the money.


Now here is a lot of change for a one day event.


CNN — The Broncos and Seahawks aren't the only ones preparing for Sunday's Super Bowl. There's plenty of party planning and plenty of shopping happening ahead of the big game too.
A survey by the National Retail Federation found 181 million Americans plan to tune in for the championship game on Sunday.
To get ready, they'll spend an estimated $12.3B. That's $68.27 on average, just slightly down from the $68.54 they spent last year.
Leading the way, younger consumers. Those 18 to 24 will spend almost $93 on average, and sports fans 25 to 34, more than $100.
The majority of the spending will be on super bowl snacks, 77% of those surveyed said they'll be doing some shopping in the food and beverage aisle for Sunday's game, but some will even be in the market for a new TV, with an estimated 7.7M expected to be purchased around the game.
Another driver of spending, team apparel.
10 million Americans will skip the party planning altogether, and head out to a restaurant or bar to watch the game


The Catholic Church funds Billions to the poor, by the way.

It's easy to forget that events cost big bucks, Gracie, thanks for providing information about such. Maybe when we are a part of any event, we focus on the enjoyment more than the money needed to make it happen.

This is a big deal for the Church and many who are Catholic. Maybe some of other faiths or beliefs or non-beliefs, don't truly understand.

[Golfingnut]

It's easy to forget that events cost big bucks, Gracie, thanks for providing information about such. Maybe when we are a part of any event, we focus on the enjoyment more than the money needed to make it happen.

This is a big deal for the Church and many who are Catholic. Maybe some of other faiths or beliefs or non-beliefs, don't truly understand.

After the earlier statement by Gracie about the enjoyment by so many, I get it and have no problem with the 11 million spend to give joy to the very people that donated the 11 million to the church. Sometimes, an explanation is needed for some of us to get it.

[Buffalo Jim]

The Original Post was about the use of funds to pay for an " event ".
Whatever was spent was used to purchase all types of " goods and services " in support of this special event .
The " goods and services " would have been provided by businesses large and small all of whom in turn have employees who get paid and who also purchase goods and services from others .
Consequently such an event has a very positive impact on the local economy . So in effect this special event has fed many .

It`s not as if the money was simply dumped into Rome`s sewer system !

[pooh]

The Original Post was about the use of funds to pay for an " event ".
Whatever was spent was used to purchase all types of " goods and services " in support of this special event .
The " goods and services " would have been provided by businesses large and small all of whom in turn have employees who get paid and who also purchase goods and services from others .
Consequently such an event has a very positive impact on the local economy . So in effect this special event has fed many .

It`s not as if the money was simply dumped into Rome`s sewer system !

Very good point, Jim. So often when complaints are voiced, it is forgotten that there is so much more involved. Our thoughts focus on the event and whatever else we emotionally attribute to said event.

Thank you for the reminder that nothing happens alone.

[Steve & Deanna]

I agree Golfingnut but who am I to make a decision like that. Your point is well taken as that money can feed a lot of 'needy' people. With all due respect to sainthood, we have good friends that call my wife a 'saint' for putting up with me for all of these years.