Whats the point of discussing Sinkhole Insurance

[CSwofford147@comcast.net]

There have been many replies to posts about sinkholes and sinkhole insurance in TV as to what the point is to discussing sinkhole and sinkhole insurance. . The point is that it is a well known fact to the Villages Properties that a tremendous amount of homes that are sold in the Villages can not get sinkhole insurance based solely on there location. If you try to get sinkhole insurance in the Villages your address is entered in to a insurance data base and almost every property is classified as uninsurable. When you buy a home from out of state that information which is known in advance should be disclosed to you so that you can make a informed decision based on all the known facts. It is entirely possible that some people might not have purchased property had they known that it could not be insured for a potentially very large financial exposure. I would like to know what people who have purchased property in the Villages were told about the uninsurabality of there property before they bought the property. The seems to me to be a material fact which should have been disclosed. The Property Owners Association of the Villages has said it has knowledge that people were being told by there sale people that these homes could be insured but when they got here found out they could not be insured. What needs to discussed is what people have been told by Village sales associates about sinkhole insurance. Do people who purchased here feel that there was adequate disclosure of the problem.

[Big O]

I doubt the answers have changed from your last four or five posts on this matter. I, for one, would like to see full disclosure on your beef with The Villages regarding sinkholes.

[quirky3]

I agree! (More like the last 11 posts!)

[Indydealmaker]

There have been many replies to posts about sinkholes and sinkhole insurance in TV as to what the point is to discussing sinkhole and sinkhole insurance. . The point is that it is a well known fact to the Villages Properties that a tremendous amount of homes that are sold in the Villages can not get sinkhole insurance based solely on there location. If you try to get sinkhole insurance in the Villages your address is entered in to a insurance data base and almost every property is classified as uninsurable. When you buy a home from out of state that information which is known in advance should be disclosed to you so that you can make a informed decision based on all the known facts. It is entirely possible that some people might not have purchased property had they known that it could not be insured for a potentially very large financial exposure. I would like to know what people who have purchased property in the Villages were told about the uninsurabality of there property before they bought the property. The seems to me to be a material fact which should have been disclosed. The Property Owners Association of the Villages has said it has knowledge that people were being told by there sale people that these homes could be insured but when they got here found out they could not be insured. What needs to discussed is what people have been told by Village sales associates about sinkhole insurance. Do people who purchased here feel that there was adequate disclosure of the problem.

Your posts are coming very close to libel.

[gomoho]

I doubt the answers have changed from your last four or five posts on this matter. I, for one, would like to see full disclosure on your beef with The Villages regarding sinkholes.

Me too - wonder when admin is going to put the brakes on your nonsense. Same old - same old. What are you trying to accomplish?

[DougB]

<yawn>

[janmcn]

Prospective buyers should certainly know by now that they need to research sink hole insurance before they sign on the dotted line to buy a house.

[cbh1975]

Prospective buyers in The Villages are all adults--with a lifetime of experience. As such, they should know to do the necessary research prior to purchasing. If they don't like what they hear from their INSURANCE AGENT and not their sales agent, then they can choose not to buy. It's really quite simple. Personally, I don't give it a second thought. I have much better things to do than worry about the "what if's" of life. That's not how I want to spend my retirement years.

[TVMayor]

This is an email from 60 Minutes to CSWofford. Note cswofford147 @comcast.net is Charles Swofford

From: �customercare@support.cnbc.com�
To: cswofford147@comcast.net
Sent: Monday,
May 20, 2013 7:25:37 PM
Subject: Working with Daniel Ruetenik on story on FBI investagationinto Mortage Fraud in the Villages Flofida Head line VILAGES OF fLORIDA SCREWS OLD PEOPLE [Incident: 130520-000176]
Customer By CSS Email (Charles Swofford) (05/20/2013 11:11 PM)
Dear Mr. Swofford,
Thank you for your email to 60 Minutes. Perhaps you could provide further details about this? What is the connection between sinkholes and mortgage fraud and can you provide background on
how you know the FBI investigation is occurring?


cswofford147 | Mortgage Fraud in the V illages Florida 4 out of 5 dentists recommend this WordPress.com site (http://cswofford147.wordpress.com/)

[TVMayor]

This is the article referred to in the 60 Minutes email.

Federal FBI Investigation of Moratge Fraud in The Villages Villages 0f FL Screws Old People
By Charles from lady lake
Fri May 10, 2013 5:00 AM

{{{{Not complete, see net page below.}}}}
I am at present in the process of discussing with and meeting U.S. Senator Marco Rubio, U.S. Senator Bill Nelson, U.S. REP Ted Yoho, Florida State Senator Alan Hays, Florida State REP Maulene O'Toole, Stat REP Dennis Baxley. Copies of this E-mail and all attachments have been sent to all Senators an REP named in this e-mail. A copy of this E-mail has been sent to Special Agent FBI William Logan.
This Mortgage Fraud issue is being investigated by the FBI. The owner of the companies being investigated js Gary Gary H Morse Prominent Republican in Florida and major campaign backer and supporter of Mitt Romeny during Mitt Romenys recent Presidential bid Mitt Rommeny spent time on the Morses 150 Foot yacht in Florida with other influential Republicans.


Federal FBI Investigation of Moratge Fraud in The Villages Villages 0f FL Screws Old People - by Charles from lady lake - Newsvine (http://charles-from-florida.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/10/18167050-federal-fbi-investigation-of-moratge-fraud-in-the-villages-villages-0f-fl-screws-old-people)

[kstew43]

in my humble opinion this poster is attempting to get some type of satisfaction for the problem home he has purchased.

I think by posting, he is making an attempt to help other home buyers consider the circumstances he is dealing with when they choose to purchase, which I think is healing.

I feel for there situation and hope he gets the results he deserves and demands.

[Indydealmaker]

in my humble opinion this poster is attempting to get some type of satisfaction for the problem home he has purchased.

I think by posting, he is making an attempt to help other home buyers consider the circumstances he is dealing with when they choose to purchase, which I think is healing.

I feel for there situation and hope he gets the results he deserves and demands.

I got the impression that he does not live in The Villages. You sound like a compassionate person, but this guy does not fit the bill.

[Bogie Shooter]

in my humble opinion this poster is attempting to get some type of satisfaction for the problem home he has purchased.

I think by posting, he is making an attempt to help other home buyers consider the circumstances he is dealing with when they choose to purchase, which I think is healing.

I feel for there situation and hope he gets the results he deserves and demands.

But when is enough, enough??
Perhaps a shrink could help with the healing.....................

[janmcn]

Prospective buyers in The Villages are all adults--with a lifetime of experience. As such, they should know to do the necessary research prior to purchasing. If they don't like what they hear from their INSURANCE AGENT and not their sales agent, then they can choose not to buy. It's really quite simple. Personally, I don't give it a second thought. I have much better things to do than worry about the "what if's" of life. That's not how I want to spend my retirement years.


It is correct that prospective buyers are all adults, but it is also surprising that people from other states moving to Florida are not all that familiar with sinkholes or the insurance situation in Florida.

[Rango]

Buyer Beware

[Villageshooter]

Your posts are coming very close to libel.

kind of like being little bit pregnant!
i really think any person has the privilege of posting the topic any choice as long as they conform to the rules of the board! i mean after all he is not talking to his girlfriend an owner of the clippers!
i for one want know everything i can about sinkholes here in the villages! i very much realize about beating a dead horse , however this horse (sinkholes) seems to get up and keeps running all over! if one of these sinkholes every really swallows a home, prices will go down like the water toilet when it flushes!

[Bogie Shooter]

kind of like being little bit pregnant!
i really think any person has the privilege of posting the topic any choice as long as they conform to the rules of the board! i mean after all he is not talking to his girlfriend an owner of the clippers!
i for one want know everything i can about sinkholes here in the villages! i very much realize about beating a dead horse , however this horse (sinkholes) seems to get up and keeps running all over! if one of these sinkholes every really swallows a home, prices will go down like the water toilet when it flushes!

Is there some basis for this statement or just a wild opinion?

[Big O]

As any therapist will ask....What is your REAL issue here?

[EnglishJW]

As any therapist will ask....What is your REAL issue here?

Disclosure

[Steph]

I just purchased a new patio villa yesterday and had a frank conversation with my sales agent re the sink hole issue. I felt he was honest and fair in his comments. I was able to secure insurance without any issue including sink hole coverage at a reasonable rate. With all due respect, the OP should move on. This horse is deader than a door nail.

[perrjojo]

Disclosure
I used to work for a guy who had a great saying...well, that's a good reason, but what is the REAL REASON? He also said ..never come to a staff meeting with a problem unless you also have a possible solution. The op puts a "problem" out there to get an emotional response but never again responds or offers a solution to his supposed problem. His intent is to manipulate us and sit back and read our responses. I, for one, will no longer respond to any of these threads because they serve no constructive purpose.

[BobnBev]

Why all the hullabaloo? I had no trouble getting sinkhole insurance when we bought the house.:thumbup:

[Stdole]

Make sure you check with your Insurance Agent and have them explain the almost impossible requirements one must meet before collecting the insurance... Not so fast to begin with if you live in a $800.000 home you will put up $80,000 for the deductible or 2% value of your home... check out the other 3 almost impossible items you must meet not counting the $400.00 premiums per year... This subject deserves your full attention and research first!

[Barefoot]

I used to work for a guy who had a great saying...well, that's a good reason, but what is the REAL REASON? He also said ..never come to a staff meeting with a problem unless you also have a possible solution.

The op puts a "problem" out there to get an emotional response but never again responds or offers a solution to his supposed problem. His intent is to manipulate us and sit back and read our responses. I, for one, will no longer respond to any of these threads because they serve no constructive purpose.

The OP has started many, many threads on the same subject.
I wish the OP would be more forthcoming, and tell us about his issues.

[Villageshooter]

Make sure you check with your Insurance Agent and have them explain the almost impossible requirements one must meet before collecting the insurance... Not so fast to begin with if you live in a $800.000 home you will put up $80,000 for the deductible or 2% value of your home... check out the other 3 almost impossible items you must meet not counting the $400.00 premiums per year... This subject deserves your full attention and research first!
please please please dont cloud the issue with the facts!

[Villageshooter]

Is there some basis for this statement or just a wild opinion?
who will buy homes that next door were swallowed into the ground?
these are just facts! irefuse to stick my head in the sand and drink the koolade on this issue.

[Bogie Shooter]

kind of like being little bit pregnant!
i really think any person has the privilege of posting the topic any choice as long as they conform to the rules of the board! i mean after all he is not talking to his girlfriend an owner of the clippers!
i for one want know everything i can about sinkholes here in the villages! i very much realize about beating a dead horse , however this horse (sinkholes) seems to get up and keeps running all over! if one of these sinkholes every really swallows a home, prices will go down like the water toilet when it flushes!

who will buy homes that next door were swallowed into the ground?
these are just facts! irefuse to stick my head in the sand and drink the koolade on this issue.

You said "prices will go down like the water toilet when it flushes!" . Prices? Your statement implies all prices.
Now you say "next door". Just tossing out these statements, accomplishes what?
Has nothing to do with the "stick my head in the sand and drink the koolade" cliche.

[Big O]

please please please dont cloud the issue with the facts!

The cost and availability of insurance has been known for at least the two and a half years that I have looked and bought a house in The Villages. I believe however that what you have said is speculation.

[homeball]

Sinkhole insurance issues only came to light within the last year or two, some of it by way of the state legislature. Prior to that it wasn't much of a big deal. When we first bought in TV 4/5 years ago, we had FULL coverage sinkhole insurance. It was only this year that we got a letter from the insurance co. saying that they would only write CATASTROPHIC sink hole coverage. So, even though we did our research when we bought our home, the rug was pulled out from under us later on, something we had no control over.

[Indydealmaker]

All of the comments describing the hoops you must jump through in order to file claims for sinkhole damage sounds to me just like every single catastrophic insurance coverage that I can think of.

We have all heard the horror stories of filing insurance claims for earthquake damage, flood damage, driven water damage, tornado damage, sinkhole damage, thefts and vandalism. It is all the same. Nothing new here.

There are risks in life that you take to get what you want. Nothing new here either.

Those that claim the dangers of sinkholes were hidden from us are insulting our intelligence. If you did not know about sinkholes and you made an uninformed decision to build a home in a sinkhole prone area (approximately 40% of the U.S.) then it is on you. Not your real estate sales guy. Not the builder or the developer or God. Just you. Their is increased risk in life to basking in "low knowledge".

Now go play golf!

[kstew43]

when the 10% wipes out your savings, you can't sell your home due to its reputation, the VCD come after you to pay your back fees, and the city wants its taxes you can't afford to pay......then tell them to go play golf.....

sorry.....mean but true.....

[Indydealmaker]

when the 10% wipes out your savings, you can't sell your home due to its reputation, the VCD come after you to pay your back fees, and the city wants its taxes you can't afford to pay......then tell them to go play golf.....

sorry.....mean but true.....

My point is that if that scenario is yours, you had an opportunity to avoid it by buying in a non-sinkhole, non-tornado, non-earthquake, non-flood, non-hurricane totally hazard-free are...if you could find it. Otherwise, it is what it is. Why fret?

[Buffalo Jim]

Anyone know the true " odds " of a sink-hole opening under a given home ?
My guess would be it would be about the same Odds as winning the Power-Ball Lottery in any given year .

[Barefoot]

Anyone know the true " odds " of a sink-hole opening under a given home ?
My guess would be it would be about the same Odds as winning the Power-Ball Lottery in any given year .

When a sinkhole happens close to someone's home, of course it's a nightmare.
No downplaying that. There are emotional and financial impacts for them, and probably also for their neighbors.

However there are so many things we can worry about in life that never happen.
We can worry about being hit by lightning or being attacked by a bear,
or we can hope to win the Lottery.
But in real life, these things rarely happen.

FGS - Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.dep.state.fl.us/geology/feedback/faq.htm#21)

What is the sinkhole risk factor associated with my area?

Unfortunately there is no ready reference on sinkhole prediction or risk assessment. The insurance companies have tried developing risk prediction methodology, but since the underground cavities are largely undetectable without expensive ground-penetrating radar surveys, resistivity tests, or test drilling, little real progress towards this goal has been made. In recent years, at least one geotechnical company has developed a fee-based risk assessment registry based on an extensive private database of known sinkholes and local geologic conditions, which it provides to insurers. Some Florida insurance companies now utilize this registry for assisting in determining the sinkhole risk in specific areas.

[Big O]

I agree.
We can worry about being hit by lightning or being attached by a bear,
or we can hope to win the Lottery.
But in real life, these things rarely happen.

FGS - Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.dep.state.fl.us/geology/feedback/faq.htm#21)

What is the sinkhole risk factor associated with my area?

Unfortunately there is no ready reference on sinkhole prediction or risk assessment. The insurance companies have tried developing risk prediction methodology, but since the underground cavities are largely undetectable without expensive ground-penetrating radar surveys, resistivity tests, or test drilling, little real progress towards this goal has been made. In recent years, at least one geotechnical company has developed a fee-based risk assessment registry based on an extensive private database of known sinkholes and local geologic conditions, which it provides to insurers. Some Florida insurance companies now utilize this registry for assisting in determining the sinkhole risk in specific areas.

The point is that all of this information is available now to anyone who chooses to look for it. The fact that insurance companies have chosen to treat it differently is not the fault of the developer. If you want to live in The Villages, or anywhere else in Florida, it is your own responsibility to do the leg work.

[asianthree]

so far i have not seen a statue of a saint to bury in my yard to ward off a sinkhole..so off to golf we go..don't worry about things you can not change

[784caroline]

..so off to golf we go..don't worry about things you can not change

:BigApplause:

[perrjojo]

Actually I see no point in it. We can discuss it til the cows come home and it makes no difference. If you have a concern, call an insurance agent and get FACTS, NOT OPINIONS.

[Villageshooter]

the facts are insurance companies are in the business to make money and they are starting to charge a whole lot more for there product for a reason!

[EnglishJW]

If you did not know about sinkholes and you made an uninformed decision to build a home in a sinkhole prone area (approximately 40% of the U.S.) then it is on you.

When I read this I was very surprised at your figure of 40% so I did just a bit of research and found this on the U.S. Geological Survey site:

"Areas prone to collapse sinkholes
The map below shows areas of the United States where certain rock types that are susceptible to dissolution in water occur. In these areas the formation of underground cavities can form and catastrophic sinkholes can happen. These rock types are evaporites (salt, gypsum, and anhydrite) and carbonates (limestone and dolomite). Evaporite rocks underlie about 35 to 40 percent of the United States, though in many areas they are buried at great depths."

I, for one, certainly didn't know that.

[Xavier]

When I read this I was very surprised at your figure of 40% so I did just a bit of research and found this on the U.S. Geological Survey site:

"Areas prone to collapse sinkholes
The map below shows areas of the United States where certain rock types that are susceptible to dissolution in water occur. In these areas the formation of underground cavities can form and catastrophic sinkholes can happen. These rock types are evaporites (salt, gypsum, and anhydrite) and carbonates (limestone and dolomite). Evaporite rocks underlie about 35 to 40 percent of the United States, though in many areas they are buried at great depths."

I, for one, certainly didn't know that.

See, you can learn so much from the informed posters on TOTV. There are many of them here. Unfortunately, not everyone qualify. Be aware that a very few trolls, wing-nuts, and some in need of professional help have been known to sneak in every once in a while.

Xavier

[TVMayor]

Posted: 4:35 p.m. Monday, Aug. 12, 2013
Action 9 breaks down Florida sinkhole insurance coverage

ORLANDO, Fla. �

Despite big changes to sinkhole insurance, the kind of destruction caused by Lake County's Summer Bay resort collapse is still covered, according to Action 9's Todd Ulrich.

Far more homeowners have sinkholes that don't destroy property but still cause extensive damage.

A catastrophic collapse is now the only sinkhole damage now fully covered in Florida since the legislature approved sweeping insurance changes last year.

Under the new law, there must by an abrupt land collapse, structural damage and a condemned property.

Insurance experts told Action 9 Summer Bay's policy should cover the company's loss and prevent special assessments against timeshare owners.

But for traditional homeowners, many sinkhole claims are now nightmares.

At Sheryl Smith's Marion County home, the foundation cracked wide open, doors would not close and walls split from ceilings, but her insurance claim was turned down despite an engineering report that identified catastrophic failure.

Many insurance adjustors said the new law gives insurance companies an easy way to deny, delay and limit claims.

"They will fight you on the methods of repair so they can keep it cheap and the cosmetics above ground," said Smith.

Smith said she was tired of fighting and agreed to a settlement that left her with a $70,000 loss she blames on the sinkhole and Florida's new insurance rules.

"It should be covered or why have it?" she said.

The law was changed because the state found contractors and adjustors abused coverage for minor repairs.

Florida does have a mediation program to review sinkhole claim denials.
Action 9 breaks down Florida sinkhole insurance coverage | www.wftv.com (http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/action-9-breaks-down-florida-sinkhole-insurance-co/nZMTh/)

[Indydealmaker]

Action 9 breaks down Florida sinkhole insurance coverage | www.wftv.com (http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/action-9-breaks-down-florida-sinkhole-insurance-co/nZMTh/)

I don't think that there is any question anymore that the state of Florida has let the insurance industry run roughshod over all of us. Under the guise of trying to control fraud, the state has changed insurance regs in such a manner that this state' insureds pay through the nose for flawed coverage. The insurance industry needs to be forced to investigate fraud instead of conning the state into legislating safety nets on their behalf.

The next governor of Florida could win by a landslide if he promised insurance reform.

[Villageshooter]

I don't think that there is any question anymore that the state of Florida has let the insurance industry run roughshod over all of us. Under the guise of trying to control fraud, the state has changed insurance regs in such a manner that this state' insureds pay through the nose for flawed coverage. The insurance industry needs to be forced to investigate fraud instead of conning the state into legislating safety nets on their behalf.

The next governor of Florida could win by a landslide if he promised insurance reform.

more smokescreen ,, the facts are we have lots of sinkholes and the insurance companies are no longer going to shell out millions for claims without a huge increase in premiums to offset the costs!

[redwitch]

I don't think the OP's issue is sinkholes per se. I think the issue is that OP was told that sinkhole insurance would be available but was unable to get it.

Unfortunately, I doubt there is much you can do about what you were told. One, it is a he said/she said scenario. Two, there is sinkhole insurance available but the cost is high and covers little. From the little details given by OP, it doesn't sound like a flat out lie but maybe some hyperbole or an agent without quite all the facts.

One thing we all need to remember is that Florida is very pro business, especially big business. This means that the consumer must be very well informed.

[Big O]

I don't think the OP's issue is sinkholes per se. I think the issue is that OP was told that sinkhole insurance would be available but was unable to get it.

Unfortunately, I doubt there is much you can do about what you were told. One, it is a he said/she said scenario. Two, there is sinkhole insurance available but the cost is high and covers little. From the little details given by OP, it doesn't sound like a flat out lie but maybe some hyperbole or an agent without quite all the facts.

One thing we all need to remember is that Florida is very pro business, especially big business. This means that the consumer must be very well informed.


This is a matter of personal responsibility. If you want to know about insurance....ask an insurance agent. Following the OP's logic I should blame my barber for bad investment advice.

[senior citizen]

kind of like being little bit pregnant!
i really think any person has the privilege of posting the topic any choice as long as they conform to the rules of the board! i mean after all he is not talking to his girlfriend an owner of the clippers!
i for one want know everything i can about sinkholes here in the villages! i very much realize about beating a dead horse , however this horse (sinkholes) seems to get up and keeps running all over! if one of these sinkholes every really swallows a home, prices will go down like the water toilet when it flushes!


http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/alaska-state-troopers/galleries/sinkholes-swallowed-alive/at/trapped-undergroup-2077685/ (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/alaska-state-troopers/galleries/sinkholes-swallowed-alive/at/trapped-undergroup-2077685/)

Sinkholes, Swallowed Alive

The news is indeed all over. We had just come inside from our deck enjoying a rare day of sunshine (two beautiful days in a row after a rainy spell) and even rarer yet 80 degree temps..........when my husband randomly turned on the television and called for me to come downstairs..........he thought he saw The Villages......to make a long story short.......it was a NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC SPECIAL on National GeoTV showing how CENTRAL FLORIDA and the western part such as Hernando County, Hillsborough etc., etc., etc. are causing homeowners GRIEF.

The title was "Sinkholes * Swallowed Alive".

The Geologists explained the same thing we all had discovered and shared on other threads most recently........the geologists shared a wealth of information, as did the "cave divers" God bless them.......in trying to trace these underground caverns under a couple's home........a beautiful home by the way.........I really felt for that couple.

The cave cartographer said something like, "Central Florida is ground zero".........

My husband was in awe of the information shared.....same as we all found out by doing a bit of research most recently......of what lies below the ground in Florida, more prevalent in certain areas.

Heavy rains...........as well as heavy water useage, both seem to aggravate the collapse problem.

I'm sure we were not the only ones who saw it......in our case, it was quite by chance........perhaps they will re run it. They also showed in great detail the Seffner Florida horror.......all three homes were leveled; they never recovered the man's body.

Those cave divers are something else. They only had 90 minutes of oxygen in their tanks...........the geologist was very informative as well.

Check out National Geographic T.V. channel ; perhaps they will have a rerun. The news is "out there" ; it's no secret anymore.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/alaska-state-troopers/galleries/sinkholes-swallowed-alive/at/trapped-undergroup-2077685/ (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/alaska-state-troopers/galleries/sinkholes-swallowed-alive/at/trapped-undergroup-2077685/)

This is the link to the National Geographic video which referred to "Florida is Ground Zero"

I'm hoping this is the full hour version we saw with the cave cartographer, etc.

[senior citizen]

in my humble opinion this poster is attempting to get some type of satisfaction for the problem home he has purchased.Aft

I think by posting, he is making an attempt to help other home buyers consider the circumstances he is dealing with when they choose to purchase, which I think is healing.

I feel for there situation and hope he gets the results he deserves and demands.


I hadn't even thought that perhaps he had purchased a problem home........but in any event, he is obviously doing his research before buying now.

After reading all of the posts re insurance, etc........in our own minds it still comes down to the ultimate cost of repair, if it is repairable.........and that's not a doomsday "worry" but a practical one.

Some of the costs I've seen are astronomical; not sure if the insurance company will pay it all ??? Would have to read the fine print in the contract.

Who, in their right minds, will go around lackadaisically playing golf while their hard earned property is in jeopardy???

Everyone , obviously, thinks differently on this subject........but after vacationing for 50 years in Florida, we NEVER knew about sinkholes until most recently. The research came naturally, to satisfy our own curiosity.

Then, last year, that big resort that just collapsed near Disney World...........didn't anyone see that?

Here is one just sent to me......a blast from the past in Winter Park which is a lovely little city...........who would know? Anyone out there remember this?????

A BLAST FROM THE PAST..........


The Winter Park sinkhole
In 1972, an agricultural agent and "resident layman expert on Central Florida water" named Henry Swanson wrote a letter warning Orange County mayors of the sinkhole danger that could be posed by overdevelopment and excessive groundwater use. Swanson predicted that the west Winter Park area would be especially at risk.

In May 1981, during a period of record-low water levels in Florida's limestone acquifer, a massive sinkhole opened up near the corner of Denning Drive and Fairbanks Avenue.

The sinkhole first appeared on the evening of May 8, 1981, near the house of Winter Park resident Mae Rose Williams (named Mae Rose Owens at the time).

Newspaper accounts report that her dog Muffin barked fiercely as the sinkhole opened, and that she heard a "queer, swishing noise"

Within a few hours, the sinkhole had swallowed a 40-year-old sycamore tree near her house, which disappeared with a "ploop" noise, as if pulled downward by the roots.

The next morning, accompanied by a sound "like giant beavers chewing", the hole rapidly expanded to nearly 40 feet (12 m) wide.

Her family was evacuated around noon, and that afternoon her house was consumed by the sinkhole.

The hole eventually widened to 320 feet (98 m) and to a depth of 90 feet (27 m), swallowing five Porsches at a repair shop, a pickup truck with camper top, the Winter Park municipal pool, and large portions of Denning Drive.

Winter Park city employees were able to rescue toilets from the pool bathhouse before they were swallowed by the sinkhole. By May 9, the sinkhole had swallowed nearly 250,000 cubic yards (190,000 m3) of earth, with damage estimated at $2 to $4 million.

Florida engineers have described the event as "the largest sinkhole event witnessed by man as a result of natural geological reasons or conditions.

The sinkhole drew national attention and became a popular tourist attraction during the summer of 1981.

A carnival-like atmosphere arose around the area, with vendors selling food, balloons, and t-shirts to visitors. The city of Winter Park sold sinkhole photographs for promotional and educational purposes. The sinkhole began to fill with water that summer, but on July 19 the water level suddenly dropped by a reported 15 to 20 feet (4.6 to 6.1 m).

As the novelty wore off, the city worked to repair the damage.

Workers extracted the truck and three of the five Porsches swallowed by the sinkhole. Engineers filled in the bottom with dirt and concrete, the sinkhole stabilized, and in its place formed Lake Rose, named in honor of Mae Rose Williams .

Diver reports from 2009 suggest that the lake has since been used to dispose of unwanted vehicles.Excepting a 1987 incident in which the bottom of the lake suddenly dropped 20 feet (6.1 m), causing erosion on the southern rim, the stabilized sinkhole has been generally quiet.

Williams died in 2005 after outliving her husband and all five of her children.

Henry Swanson, who predicted the risk of sinkholes in 1972, developed ulcers and insomnia before going on to discover his love of butterflies. He eventually penned a 74-page book titled Butterfly Revelations, published in 1978. Swanson died in 2012.

http://www.tampabay360.com/popup/14280 (http://www.tampabay360.com/popup/14280)
GOOD MAP ABOVE
SINKHOLE REPAIR in TAMPA / HERNANDO COUNTIES, ETC.


　
http://www.sinkhole-florida.com/sinkhole-repair-in-hillsboro-county-fl.html (http://www.sinkhole-florida.com/sinkhole-repair-in-hillsboro-county-fl.html)
SINKHOLE REPAIR IN HILLSBORO COUNTY FL.







　

[tucson]

Isn't this the reason why there's so many lakes in Central Fla.??!! Especially Lake County... something (very important to research, I'd say).

[Moderator]

Please note.. The topic is obtaining sinkhole insurance, not a general discussion of sinkhole incidents.

[tucson]

I wonder if the lakes really are the aftermath of large sinkholes.

[tucson]

www.floir.com/site.Documents/Sinkhole_ study_042005.pdf (lots of expert findings, final report, "Insurance Study of Sinkholes" submitted to the State of Florida 2005.

[senior citizen]

To put people's minds at rest as to whether or not just having insurance is the ultimate answer to stilling their concerns/fears/decision making process.........

Is there anyone out there, who in a previous "life" was a scientist or a meteorologist or geologist or even a cave diver.......who could wager the "chances of it never happening" under our home?

To me, personally, it wouldn't matter one bit how much insurance I had..........I would not want to go through the worry and concern of it happening beneath my dwelling. But, that's me.

The meterorologist might have some theories on climate change and the increase in rainfall......vs. a drier condition.......

Areas that were farmlands seem to be in more jeopardy, from what I've read.

Someone must know the odds, or at least willing to wager what the odds might be......in the near future. Thanks in advance.

[redwitch]

[B]Someone must know the odds, or at least willing to wager what the odds might be......in the near future. Thanks in advance.

I'd say that an actuary for an insurance company would know the odds and that's one of the reasons companies campaigned so hard to make sinkhole insurance worthless. Gotta a love a state that would help insurers not be liable for damages for a major risk in that state.

[Big O]

I'd say that an actuary for an insurance company would know the odds and that's one of the reasons companies campaigned so hard to make sinkhole insurance worthless. Gotta a love a state that would help insurers not be liable for damages for a major risk in that state.

Where do you think the insurance companies get the money to pay sinkhole claims? It comes from you. If it doesn't, they go bankrupt. You may not like what they charge but THEY are the ones taking the risk. You may not like it, but you have a choice. You do not have to buy the insurance.

[ilovetv]

Where do you think the insurance companies get the money to pay sinkhole claims? It comes from you. If it doesn't, they go bankrupt. You may not like what they charge but THEY are the ones taking the risk. You may not like it, but you have a choice. You do not have to buy the insurance.

Exactly.

Often, people don't seem to recognize that insurance is a risk-sharing pool, and if the pooled money for claims gets exhausted, NOBODY gets help from it.

[Barefoot]

Often, people don't seem to recognize that insurance is a risk-sharing pool, and if the pooled money for claims gets exhausted, NOBODY gets help from it.

Where do you think the insurance companies get the money to pay sinkhole claims? It comes from you. If it doesn't, they go bankrupt. You may not like what they charge but THEY are the ones taking the risk. You may not like it, but you have a choice. You do not have to buy the insurance.

Of course, none of us want a sinkhole occurring close to our home.
But Mother Nature sometimes sends hurricanes, lightning, sinkholes, etc.

We own a home in TV on a golf course, and the property is raised.
Probably a prime opportunity for a sinkhole.
We bought sinkhole insurance, and don't worry about it.
If I had an overwhelming anxiety about sinkholes, I'd avoid Florida.
There are no guarantees it won't happen to you.

[janmcn]

Of course, none of us want a sinkhole occurring close to our home.
But Mother Nature sometimes sends hurricanes, lightning, sinkholes, etc.

We own a home in TV on a golf course, and the property is raised.
Probably a prime opportunity for a sinkhole.
We bought sinkhole insurance, and don't worry about it.
If I had an overwhelming anxiety about sinkholes, I'd avoid Florida.
There are no guarantees it won't happen to you.


According to the map that Gracie posted on another thread several times, there are very few sinkholes south of Tampa. In fact, there were zero in Collier county (Naples), three in Lee county (Fort Myers) and about six in Sarasota county. These are all in the past sixty years, so to say that all of Florida is sinkhole prone, is not accurate.

[Barefoot]

If I had an overwhelming anxiety about sinkholes, I'd avoid Florida.


...... so to say that all of Florida is sinkhole prone, is not accurate.

I didn't actually say that ALL of Florida is sink hole prone. Sorry if I implied it. Point well taken. Best to be specific. Thanks for the correction.

[senior citizen]

Of course, none of us want a sinkhole occurring close to our home.
But Mother Nature sometimes sends hurricanes, lightning, sinkholes, etc.

We own a home in TV on a golf course, and the property is raised.
Probably a prime opportunity for a sinkhole.
We bought sinkhole insurance, and don't worry about it.
If I had an overwhelming anxiety about sinkholes, I'd avoid Florida.
There are no guarantees it won't happen to you.


So true. One never knows what Mother Nature has in mind.
Last evening I was reading in the "Space Coast Living" magazine an article by Tom Sorrell, Chief Meteorologist at WKMG Local 6 in Florida. His article was "2014's Dangerous Hurricane Amnesia" re the recent "easy" seasons have made folks less concerned.

He goes on to mention that right now most long term models are indicating a return to El Nino conditions; a strong El Nino leads to less active Atlantic Hurricane Season.......however, as he says, it only takes one storm to be "our storm". Much more, but too long to get into here.......

Getting back to the original topic..........I found these:

http://www.way2insure.com/tag/florida-sinkhole-coverage/ (http://www.way2insure.com/tag/florida-sinkhole-coverage/)

Interesting info on Florida sinkhole insurance coverage

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/geology/feedback/faq.htm (http://www.dep.state.fl.us/geology/feedback/faq.htm)

Florida Department of Environmental Protection frequently asked questions. A must read.......for sure.


Below the hyperlinks, all of the answers are printed out...............

[Gat0r]

If I lived in Oklahoma I would not need tornado insurance.It is covered under my home coverage.So why do we need sinkhole,flood and wind insurance? I call New York the "Tax State" and Florida the "Insurance State"

[Villageshooter]

is sinkhole insurance required if u hav a mortage? i know u must have homeowners insurance

[EnglishJW]

Thanks for the links.

[mulligan]

Your homeowners policy must, by state law, include catastrophic ground collapse coverage. At that point, the house is condemned, declared uninhabitable, and the insurance pays for remediation. The bank's interest is covered. Sinkhole insurance would provide coverage if the home were not condemned, but rather the home or lot were damaged. Sinkhole insurance would then provide coverage less a 10% ( of the home's value) deductible.

[justjim]

I don't think that there is any question anymore that the state of Florida has let the insurance industry run roughshod over all of us. Under the guise of trying to control fraud, the state has changed insurance regs in such a manner that this state' insureds pay through the nose for flawed coverage. The insurance industry needs to be forced to investigate fraud instead of conning the state into legislating safety nets on their behalf.

The next governor of Florida could win by a landslide if he promised insurance reform.

:agree: I agree with your assessment that Florida Politicans "favored" the insurance companies. However, the electorate has a very short memory and 90% of elections are won by the Politicans with the most money to spend.

The Insurance Industry has a very big $$$$$$ lobby----enough to make a difference in a close election. Besides, negative ads appear to really work and if you got the money you can win----deserving or not.

The good news is there are term limits in Florida. (not meaning to be political)

[Xavier]

A little music Maestro CLICK HERE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lJZiqZaGA)