Saturated fat & heart disease

[Villages PL]

This subject is going to be difficult and I doubt I can do it justice. To explain it fully you'd have to cover a lot of territory.

On may 6th. a column by Mona Charen appeared in the Daily Sun: "Bad science happens; always be skeptical"

And, indeed, her column made me skeptical. She claims that a new study has discovered that saturated fat does not cause heart disease. She totally believes it but I doubt that it's the whole truth. I think it was inspired by the food industry. It seems that something is not quite right, especially considering that neither the AP nor McClatchy news has covered this story. But it has been covered by the above columnist and a well known talk-radio host.

It makes me skeptical when a study isolates one dietary constituent like saturated fat and then says, "it doesn't cause heart disease". As I have said once before, this is known as "reductionism".

Most scientists who study this should know that every cell in the human body requires some saturated fat. You can't build a cell without it. If you don't consume enough saturated fat, your body will manufacture what it needs. Having said that, excess fat consumption, beyond those needs, would be pointless and possibly harmful. Too much saturated fat in one's diet can have the effect of making cells too stiff. Not to mention that fat is high in calories. And if you consume to many calories you likely would gain excess weight and that could lead to inflammation. Then inflammation could bring on heart disease. So if it is not one thing alone, like saturated fat, that causes heart disease, it is a chain of events. You have to look at the individual and his/her whole lifestyle, not just one thing in a vacuum.

This is a long story to be continued: If you would like more information, just google the following: Saturated fat does not cause heart disease

[NotGolfer]

Two books I recommend....Wheat Belly by Dr. Wm. Davis and Grain Brain by Dr. David Perlmutter. These will share what exactly does seem to cause many of our illnesses. Dr. Davis is a cardiologist and Dr. Perlmutter is a neurologist.

[Abby10]

Villages PL - check out the thread started by Dr Winston O Boogie jr regarding too much sugar and the video that he recommends watching. Would be very interested in your opinion on the info in the video.

Here is the link to the video -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs

Have a great day!

[Villages PL]

Villages PL - check out the thread started by Dr Winston O Boogie jr regarding too much sugar and the video that he recommends watching. Would be very interested in your opinion on the info in the video.

Here is the link to the video -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs

Have a great day!

Thanks, Abby, I will try to do that as soon as I add a post to this thread.

[Villages PL]

I should have explained in my opening post that this new report about saturated fat starts out with a somewhat faulty premise. Their premise is that people have been deceived ("by the best minds in science") for over 50 years into thinking that saturated fat causes heart disease. However, regarding this subject, the scientific community never spoke with one voice.

Over the past 4 to 5 decades there were always books defending the consumption of meat and dairy. And the overwelming majority of those who were "anti-saturated-fat" never suggested that people should eliminate ALL saturated fat. The suggestion was to "cut-back" their consumption of it.

I hope that puts it in better perspective.

[Villages PL]

Two books I recommend....Wheat Belly by Dr. Wm. Davis and Grain Brain by Dr. David Perlmutter. These will share what exactly does seem to cause many of our illnesses. Dr. Davis is a cardiologist and Dr. Perlmutter is a neurologist.

Hey, much thanks. The book "Wheat Belly" was recommended before but I finally decided to get it from the Sumter County Library. I'm up to Part II and I might decide to give my opinion of it when I'm finished. :) Also, I expect to get "Grain Brain" soon. Wow, I have a lot of reading to do now! :)

[NotGolfer]

Hey, much thanks. The book "Wheat Belly" was recommended before but I finally decided to get it from the Sumter County Library. I'm up to Part II and I might decide to give my opinion of it when I'm finished. :) Also, I expect to get "Grain Brain" soon. Wow, I have a lot of reading to do now! :)

I'm 1/2 way through Grain Brain! It's from a different point of view than Wheat Belly BUT they are compatable. I've been doing the Wheat Belly way of eating for over a year and it has done much for me medically speaking. IF you're on Facebook you can click Wheat Belly and "like" it to read all the positive testimonies of folks. I've tried every "diet" there is...this isn't one of those. It truly addresses the total individual, especially with inflamations etc. I'm glad you decided to be open minded enough to at least read these books. Back to Grain Brain...I actually am finding it an easier read as Dr. Davis gets into a lot of scientific stuff that the layman (or at least me) can't really understand it. But it shows he did his "home-work" plus he "walks his talks"!!

What benefits folks will ask (re: me)....Down lbs and clothing sizes, labs are improving so medications are being reduced or eliminated, IBS is gone, brain fog has improved, pain issues dealt with from before has vanished. It is something that doesn't happen over-night but gradually.

[Villages PL]

I'm 1/2 way through Grain Brain! It's from a different point of view than Wheat Belly BUT they are compatable. I've been doing the Wheat Belly way of eating for over a year and it has done much for me medically speaking. IF you're on Facebook you can click Wheat Belly and "like" it to read all the positive testimonies of folks. I've tried every "diet" there is...this isn't one of those. It truly addresses the total individual, especially with inflamations etc. I'm glad you decided to be open minded enough to at least read these books. Back to Grain Brain...I actually am finding it an easier read as Dr. Davis gets into a lot of scientific stuff that the layman (or at least me) can't really understand it. But it shows he did his "home-work" plus he "walks his talks"!!

What benefits folks will ask (re: me)....Down lbs and clothing sizes, labs are improving so medications are being reduced or eliminated, IBS is gone, brain fog has improved, pain issues dealt with from before has vanished. It is something that doesn't happen over-night but gradually.

Glad to hear that the elimination of wheat is working for you. If it's working, keep doing what you're doing. You had IBS and it seems your system just couldn't tolerate wheat. Maybe it has something to do with all the genetic modifications of wheat, as Dr. Davis states in his book, or maby it's just gluten intolerance, period. Just lke some people have an alergic reaction to peanuts.

I agree there is a lot of scientific stuff in "Wheat Belly" that makes it sometimes difficult to read. I think he spends a little too much time on some of it. Having said that, I was glad and amazed to learn about all the genetic modifications. So now I understand more about what's going on with our food supply.

However, concerning how the average non alergic person should eat, I have some serious doubts. Is the "Wheat Belly" diet for everyone? It might be best to start a new thread for this discussion.

[NotGolfer]

Did you get a hold of Grain Brain yet??? Back to Wheat Belly...he talks a lot about gluten in processed foods (hidden even) as well as soy products. I will tell you that I had a food-sensitivity test some years back. Mine were yeast, soy and dairy with some other foods creeping up on their scale. Dr. Davis talks quite a bit that people may have sensitivities and not realize that it's food related. IF you go and read the blog with all the comments folks are making since being on that way of eating...it's astounding! What I get quite a bit in conversations is "oh, I love my bread and rolls too much to ever do that!" even though they've just complained about headaches, digestive issues and more. I guess we all do what we can tolerate...if one is ready to give things up for better health then they will.

[Villages PL]

Did you get a hold of Grain Brain yet??? Back to Wheat Belly...he talks a lot about gluten in processed foods (hidden even) as well as soy products. I will tell you that I had a food-sensitivity test some years back. Mine were yeast, soy and dairy with some other foods creeping up on their scale. Dr. Davis talks quite a bit that people may have sensitivities and not realize that it's food related. IF you go and read the blog with all the comments folks are making since being on that way of eating...it's astounding! What I get quite a bit in conversations is "oh, I love my bread and rolls too much to ever do that!" even though they've just complained about headaches, digestive issues and more. I guess we all do what we can tolerate...if one is ready to give things up for better health then they will.

Yes, I now have "Grain Brain" and I'm about half way through "Wheat Belly". I don't do "Facebook" because I just don't like logging into unfamiliar websites. Someone tried to show me once but I didn't see the point of it. :-)

[maryanna630]

One of the issues is that thE today is totally different from the wheat our mothers used to bake with in the 50s and 60s. Europe does not allow the use of the type wheat that we use. I recommend the site Marks Daily Apple for those of you who,have an interest in health. I have given up grains and sugar ...for the most part....and feel amazingly better. I feel if you have issues, just give it a try. I also feel saturated fats are very important in the prevention of dementia and Alzheimer's.
Good health to all.....

[QueenBee1]

I have been Wheat and Grain free and Sugar free after reading Wheat Belly for 3 months, I have lost all aches and pains I was having and feel better than I have in years, also so far have lost 12 pounds as a added side effect without any effort, I eat better than ever, Have my BBQ ribs, Cheese burgers ( made with almond flour rolls), Steaks, Cheese, eggs Bacon etc etc and my Glass or 2 of wine a night, I find I am not as hungry as I was, I also do not crave anything as I do not miss anything. So for me this works.!

[NotGolfer]

I have been Wheat and Grain free and Sugar free after reading Wheat Belly for 3 months, I have lost all aches and pains I was having and feel better than I have in years, also so far have lost 12 pounds as a added side effect without any effort, I eat better than ever, Have my BBQ ribs, Cheese burgers ( made with almond flour rolls), Steaks, Cheese, eggs Bacon etc etc and my Glass or 2 of wine a night, I find I am not as hungry as I was, I also do not crave anything as I do not miss anything. So for me this works.!

My experience is similar to yours! One will get nearly immediate results with this way of eating as you've experienced. "IF" you try to go back and eat the old way you'll not feel all the best...that has been my experience...so a good lesson to be had.

As for the poster who said saturated fats are important. With WB....(and Grain Brain) it's recommended to use coconut oil, olive oil and butter. It's been said these oils will enable one to lose weight (if that's their objective) and will also help with brain health.

[QueenBee1]

Yes, I try and have a lot of Coconut Oil, Olive Oil and Butter, I add to things, which is why my appetite is less, I also noticed just a little exposure to wheat from eating out did not agree with me, got upset stomach as a result, Which to mean speaks for itself, its not good for us. I am now committed to this for the duration and am loving the way I feel as a result.

[CFrance]

I have been Wheat and Grain free and Sugar free after reading Wheat Belly for 3 months, I have lost all aches and pains I was having and feel better than I have in years, also so far have lost 12 pounds as a added side effect without any effort, I eat better than ever, Have my BBQ ribs, Cheese burgers ( made with almond flour rolls), Steaks, Cheese, eggs Bacon etc etc and my Glass or 2 of wine a night, I find I am not as hungry as I was, I also do not crave anything as I do not miss anything. So for me this works.!
Sounds like the Atkins regime. Works really well for my husband. Not so much for me.

[justjim]

First it's bad for you then it's okay for you! Not just the OP's subject on this Thread but many different foods and drinks. Confusing?

I think we are all different and what is good or bad for one is not so for another. My basic motto is everything in moderation. So much is in the genes.

However, it good to be informed and thanks for sharing your insight on TOTV.

[QueenBee1]

Atkins is a diet, this is not, I did this not for weight loss but for Health, The loss of weight was a bonus, I, 5 months ago started having horrible muscle aches and Joint pain, it was totally debilitating, I had heard about this Wheat Belly plan reducing inflammation so I thought what have I got to lose and tried it,
after about 2 weeks without wheat, the pain was gone, and has stayed gone along with better sleep, and feeling so much better but I understand we all have to do what works for us.

[CFrance]

Atkins is a diet, this is not, I did this not for weight loss but for Health, The loss of weight was a bonus, I, 5 months ago started having horrible muscle aches and Joint pain, it was totally debilitating, I had heard about this Wheat Belly plan reducing inflammation so I thought what have I got to lose and tried it,
after about 2 weeks without wheat, the pain was gone, and has stayed gone along with better sleep, and feeling so much better but I understand we all have to do what works for us.
QueenBee, not trying to put down what you're doing. I purposely said Atkins regime, not diet, because I wasn't talking about losing weight. It's basically a diet free of wheat and sugar, and you mentioned you could have a lot of the types of food that keep you satisfied and not hungry all the time, which is true of Atkins too. So it sounded similar to me. My husband has followed the Atkins tenets for years and maintains a good weight and health.

Unfortunately, when I've tried it, it's caused weight gain. I'm glad it's working so well for you.

[QueenBee1]

C France, You are correct, I stand corrected, sorry about that, I think sometimes we see things that are not their LOL, Have a great day.

[CFrance]

Well, and I could have stated that more succinctly!

[Villages PL]

Atkins, Wheat Belly, and the one I mentioned in my opening post all have something in common: They are high protein, high fat and low carb, not to mention low fiber.

The main reason, as I understand it, is to break the addiction to wheat and other starches. It may be called a lifestyle if you keep doing it after you lose weight but for those who start it to lose weight, it's a diet, in my opinion. A diet suggests you are restricting something like grains/carbs/calories.

The problem I see is that what's good in the short term may not always be good in the long term. It looks like a trade-off as the immediate result is loss of weight and if you lose some weight you are bound to feel better. So people mistakenly think it's a healthy diet. But more often than not these diet/regimens appeal to those who found it difficult to lose weight because they don't like vegetables. So the gimmick with a high protein diet/regimen is: Instead of switching from grain to vegetables they switch from grain to to protein (i.e., lots meats, eggs, dairy, fats).

So, in my opinion, this high protein regimen will eventually fail. It's just going to take some time for most people to realize it. There are too many things lacking like phytochemicals that fight against cancer. And high protein diets are usually very low in fiber, the result of which may lead to the destruction of your digestive system (diverticulosis).

[QueenBee1]

I believe we all have to do what we feel is right for ourselves and what works for us, as their is always going to be a difference of opinion, and that is good!

[B767drvr]

There is very little sound science behind these [dangerous] fad diet books (Wheat Belly and Grain Brain) according to the following author:

The Smoke and Mirrors Behind Wheat Belly and Grain Brain (http://www.forksoverknives.com/the-smoke-and-mirrors-behind-wheat-belly-and-grain-brain/)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Atkins, Wheat Belly, and the one I mentioned in my opening post all have something in common: They are high protein, high fat and low carb, not to mention low fiber.

The main reason, as I understand it, is to break the addiction to wheat and other starches. It may be called a lifestyle if you keep doing it after you lose weight but for those who start it to lose weight, it's a diet, in my opinion. A diet suggests you are restricting something like grains/carbs/calories.

The problem I see is that what's good in the short term may not always be good in the long term. It looks like a trade-off as the immediate result is loss of weight and if you lose some weight you are bound to feel better. So people mistakenly think it's a healthy diet. But more often than not these diet/regimens appeal to those who found it difficult to lose weight because they don't like vegetables. So the gimic with a high protein diet/regimen is: Instead of switching from grain to vegetables they switch from grain to to protein (i.e., lots meats, eggs, dairy, fats).

So, in my opinion, this high protein regimen will eventually fail. It's just going to take some time for most people to realize it. There are too many things lacking like phytochemicals that fight against cancer. And high protein diets are usually very low in fiber, the result of which may lead to the destruction of your digestive system (diverticulosis).

No true in all cases. Dr Permutter recommends large quantities of green leafy vegetables and other sources of fiber. He only suggests that, along with most grains, we eliminate very starchy vegetables such as potatoes ad carrots.

For myself, I put a heaping tablespoon of sugar free Metamucil in a large glass of water every morning and drink it followed by another large glass of water. I also eat a lot of salad and have spinach, kale, broccoli and other green vegetables with my meals.

And like I mentioned in another post, once or twice a month I let myself go and have a few beers or a pizza or some pasta.

I stopped taking a statin and at my last doctors appointment my ridiculously high blood numbers were the best they've been in the two years that I've been here. My triglycerides and cholesterol were lower than when I was taking a statin which has outrageous side effects.

Another short word on statins. First of all numerous studies have shown that there is no difference in the mortality rate of people with heart disease who are on statins or not. Secondly, they have side effects such as early dementia and diabetes.

I made a decision to stop taking them based on two things. First, even if they do work and lower my cholesterol, and even if lowering my cholesterol will prevent further heart disease, the side effect from statins may be worse than heart disease.

Secondly, my cholesterol and triglycerides are so incredibly high that taking a statin lowered them by such a small percentage that it doesn't seem worthwhile.

I'm not a doctor and don't mean to tell anyone what to do. I don't make any suggestions but simply explain what I do.

I'll leave you with one last quote. Dr Ancel Keyes, who is generally recognized as the father of the Framingham study has said, "There is no connection between cholesterol in diet and cholesterol in the blood unless you happen to be a rabbit or a chicken." This refers to the fact that in an experiment when they fed huge amounts of cholesterol to rabbits and chickens, both herbivores, their serum cholesterol increased. No study with humans has ever shown a connection to cholesterol in food and cholesterol in the blood.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

There is very little sound science behind these [dangerous] fad diet books (Wheat Belly and Grain Brain) according to the following author:

The Smoke and Mirrors Behind Wheat Belly and Grain Brain (http://www.forksoverknives.com/the-smoke-and-mirrors-behind-wheat-belly-and-grain-brain/)

Dr McDougal is the author of many books promoting vegetarianism. It's not exactly like he doesn't have a horse in the race here.

Yes, there are conflicting sides and there are doctors on both sides of the issue that can make a seemingly solid case for their side.

For the past fifty years or so, we have been told that a low fat, high carb diet is what we all need to stay healthy. The result has been that Americans are now fatter and less healthy than ever. What we are doing is not working. It seems to me that our mothers and grandmothers knew and took for granted that breads and pastas were fattening. Somewhere in the sixties or seventies we rejected that idea. Just look at all of the low fat foods we are consuming? Do you see Americans getting thinner? Do you know that when fat is removed from a product that it is usually replaced with some kind of sugar?

There are approximately 600,000 different processed, packaged foods sold in this country today. Eight percent of them have corn syrup as one of their top ingredients.

Corn is a huge business, as is wheat. Most of the corn produced is turned into corn syrup and corn starch and modified corn starch which is in almost everything we eat.

If we stopped eating those foods it would cause a huge financial problem in this country. Of course the people that make money from the production of these foods are going to come out in force and spend millions to try to save their industry. There is a wheat council and a corn council that are simply lobbyists for these industries. Do you think they are interested in the truth?

The fact is that sugar is addictive and Americans are addicted to sugar. Sugar is a serious addiction and it is killing us.

Eric Clapton, whose battles with drug addiction and alcoholism are well documented was once asked what was the first thing that he was addicted to. His reply was "sugar". He would eat anything with sugar in it all the time. In fact his friend George Harrison wrote a song about the dental problems that Clapton suffered as a result of this addiction. Clapton has also stated that giving up sugar was as difficult as getting free of alcohol or heroin.

The AMA and the FDA can't exactly come out and say that what they been telling us concerning diet for the past fifty years has been wrong. Imagine all the law suits from people whose relatives have died from the various diseases cause by the AMA recommended diet.

They can't come out and say that they allowed these huge companies to get all of us addicted to sugar and that is having and negative effect on our well being.

And I understand. There are thousands of conflicting books and studies out there. Who do we believe? I have doubts myself. But I will repeat this. What we've been doing for the past fifty years is not working.

[QueenBee1]

For those of us that embrace this choice, here are some facts, This is not a FAD Diet, this is a lifestyle choice, Also on this choice we eat lots and lots of Veggies, Nuts and Berries, so we get lots of Fiber, also most go off most of there meds, like Blood pressure medicine and Statins, this lifestyle for most of us is more about health than weight loss, that is just a bonus.

[Villages PL]

No true in all cases. Dr Permutter recommends large quantities of green leafy vegetables and other sources of fiber. He only suggests that, along with most grains, we eliminate very starchy vegetables such as potatoes ad carrots.

Sounds like "Grain Brain" may be the better of the two books. Although there may be something worthwhile to be learned from every book, I don't think I will finish reading "Wheat Belly". There's just too much about it that I object to. No doubt it may be good for someone with celiac or IBS but I don't see it as good for the average person. I'll start reading "Brain Grain" and see how it goes. Not that I'm looking for a new lifestyle but I just want to see what different authors are talking about.

For myself, I put a heaping tablespoon of sugar free Metamucil in a large glass of water every morning and drink it followed by another large glass of water. I also eat a lot of salad and have spinach, kale, broccoli and other green vegetables with my meals.

Thankfully, I don't have a problem with constipation. Most days I have 2 BMs. But I eat a tremendous amount of fruit and vegetables. Also I have measured amounts of beans/lentils, split peas, walnuts, almonds, Ezikiel bread, steel-cut oats, whole grain pasta, whole grain rice, barley and olive oil. The measured amounts for grain: One serving or less with each of 3 meals. Nuts: about 1 servings per day. Olive oil: Two teaspoons per day (one with salad for lunch and one with vegetable soup for dinner). Beans: about 1/2 cup with lunch and 1/2 cup with dinner. It all adds up to a lot of good nutrition and fiber. I don't eat white potatoes or anything made with flour.

And like I mentioned in another post, once or twice a month I let myself go and have a few beers or a pizza or some pasta.

I can't do any of that. I would tend to overdo it and my stomach would feel awful.

I'll leave you with one last quote. Dr Ancel Keyes, who is generally recognized as the father of the Framingham study has said, "There is no connection between cholesterol in diet and cholesterol in the blood unless you happen to be a rabbit or a chicken." This refers to the fact that in an experiment when they fed huge amounts of cholesterol to rabbits and chickens, both herbivores, their serum cholesterol increased. No study with humans has ever shown a connection to cholesterol in food and cholesterol in the blood.

That may be true for those who have an ample supply of cholesterol receptors in their body. They can eat a lot of cholesterol and it gets processed fast. So it doesn't build up in their blood. But Dr. Dean Ornish says there are those who are not so lucky. They have too few cholesterol receptors and cholesterol can build up to a high level.

If a person's liver is producing too much cholesterol it probably won't help much to cut back on dietary cholesterol. A person can have high cholesterol if they suffer from chronic stress. So it's not always clear what's going on. However, if a person has high cholesterol, it certainly won't hurt to try lowering it with diet. I wouldn't automatically believe a doctor who says diet doesn't make any difference. Especially if the doctor favors a high protein, high fat diet.

I never had high cholesterol but when I changed to a vegan diet back in 2006, my cholesterol went down over a period of a year. If you try it don't expect quick results. For some reason it takes time. Give it at least a year.

[Shimpy]

[QUOTE=Dr Winston O Boogie jr;883721]
For the past fifty years or so, we have been told that a low fat, high carb diet is what we all need to stay healthy. The result has been that Americans are now fatter and less healthy than ever. /QUOTE]


So....why not a low fat, LOW carb diet?

[rubicon]

The WSJ (author Nina Teicholz) published an article on this report. the abridged version is that Dr. Ancel Keys 1950's studies on saturated fats affect on our heart's health were greatly flawed. The WSJ summed it up by saying 'personal ambition, bad science,politics and bias derailed nutrition policy over the past half century." For instance Keys ended up landing a key spot on the nutrition committee of the American Heart Association. Note Nina Teicholz has been researching dietary fat and nutrition fro over 10 years.

In addition another study found that people over 65 need more protein and found eating more meat etc is needed.

When it comes to diet we are all different. A Harvard Study some years ago posit that there are three types when it comes to issue of fat excretors , compensators and storers and that it is the latter group that has a problem with saturate fat.

[Shimpy]

Where's Jimbo? We haven't heard from him for awhile. Healthy eating is his favorite topic.

[CFrance]

Where's Jimbo? We haven't heard from him for awhile. Healthy eating is his favorite topic.
I think he's traveling. I remember he is a fan of the Wheat Belly book.

[NotGolfer]

I agree..."IF" looking at these only to lose weight they're a diet. BUT that said, most of the folks I'm acquainted with (myself included) have health issues. There is such a thing as "gluten sensitivity"....gluten "is" in everything...some of it hidden and some not. There is a disease called celiac, which is very serious and life-threatening as well, if not treated. Too many folks aren't well-informed re: these two. This is a dialogue that doesn't bear well in a forum such as this as it's complicated. Do some research on both, add into this research into thyroid health and also leaky gut. We could go on and on. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water....examine the facts with folks' who have decided on this way of eating THEN decide. Eating protein, low carbs isn't necessarily bad for good health. My way of thinking is shop the perimeter of the store and forget the middle aisles. Many folks don't think they can do this...nor do they want to as it's "change".

[Shimpy]

I think he's traveling. I remember he is a fan of the Wheat Belly book.

He always quotes "Forks over Knifes" also.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The WSJ (author Nina Teicholz) published an article on this report. the abridged version is that Dr. Ancel Keys 1950's studies on saturated fats affect on our heart's health were greatly flawed. The WSJ summed it up by saying 'personal ambition, bad science,politics and bias derailed nutrition policy over the past half century." For instance Keys ended up landing a key spot on the nutrition committee of the American Heart Association. Note Nina Teicholz has been researching dietary fat and nutrition fro over 10 years.

In addition another study found that people over 65 need more protein and found eating more meat etc is needed.

When it comes to diet we are all different. A Harvard Study some years ago posit that there are three types when it comes to issue of fat excretors , compensators and storers and that it is the latter group that has a problem with saturate fat.

All of the studies that determined the lipid hypothesis were flawed. They looked at diets in something like thirty different countries to try to draw a connection between cholesterol and heart disease. The problem is that when the data didn't agree with the results they were looking for they eliminated those countries from the study.

And even beyond that, new information concludes that high cholesterol does not cause coronary problems. It's only when the cholesterol become glycated (bonded with sugar molecules) and the endothelium becomes inflamed that cholesterol particles begin to embed themselves in the artery walls.

[rubicon]

All of the studies that determined the lipid hypothesis were flawed. They looked at diets in something like thirty different countries to try to draw a connection between cholesterol and heart disease. The problem is that when the data didn't agree with the results they were looking for they eliminated those countries from the study.

And even beyond that, new information concludes that high cholesterol does not cause coronary problems. It's only when the cholesterol become glycated (bonded with sugar molecules) and the endothelium becomes inflamed that cholesterol particles begin to embed themselves in the artery walls.

DWOB: When Keys did the study for the Mediterranean with peasants from Crete he failed to recognize/or ignored the fact that the study was conducted during Lent when they refrained from eating meat and cheese. He also ignored/failed to factor in that these folks tolled in the fields some 12 hours a day well into their 80's.

The other question I have is if diets work why is it 8 new ones are introduced every year.

Having said that I do believe we are what we consume but just can't get away from the moderation in all things as being instructive. So moderation in eating exercising but laughter, one can not get enough of.

Personal Best Regards:

[Villages PL]

There is very little sound science behind these [dangerous] fad diet books (Wheat Belly and Grain Brain) according to the following author:

The Smoke and Mirrors Behind Wheat Belly and Grain Brain (http://www.forksoverknives.com/the-smoke-and-mirrors-behind-wheat-belly-and-grain-brain/)

Thanks for the link, I believe it provides good information.

[Villages PL]

I'll leave you with one last quote. Dr Ancel Keyes, who is generally recognized as the father of the Framingham study has said, "There is no connection between cholesterol in diet and cholesterol in the blood....." No study with humans has ever shown a connection to cholesterol in food and cholesterol in the blood.

You can do a search online to ask for a list of foods that lower cholesterol. Jean Carper has devoted a whole chapter on this subject in one of her books and I think it beats what you will find online. There are foods that lower bad cholesterol and raise good cholesterol. I don't remember them all off hand but one is olive oil and another is garlic (one clove of carlic per day).

She's a health writer and everything is backed up by studies. I'll get more information later.

[Villages PL]

I agree..."IF" looking at these only to lose weight they're a diet. BUT that said, most of the folks I'm acquainted with (myself included) have health issues. There is such a thing as "gluten sensitivity"....gluten "is" in everything...some of it hidden and some not. There is a disease called celiac, which is very serious and life-threatening as well, if not treated. Too many folks aren't well-informed re: these two. This is a dialogue that doesn't bear well in a forum such as this as it's complicated. Do some research on both, add into this research into thyroid health and also leaky gut. We could go on and on. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water....examine the facts with folks' who have decided on this way of eating THEN decide. Eating protein, low carbs isn't necessarily bad for good health. My way of thinking is shop the perimeter of the store and forget the middle aisles. Many folks don't think they can do this...nor do they want to as it's "change".

Some people may need to eliminate grain if they have celiac, IBS or whatever. But the author doesn't want you to just eliminate grain, he wants you to eat a high protein high fat diet. That's where I see a problem, especially for older people that become more susceptible to cancer as they get older.

A high protein diet is good for weight loss and for keeping weight off because it raises one's metabolism. It also promotes faster cell growth and this was acknowledged by Dr Davis, the author of Wheat Belly.. Although he didn't acknowledge it for all cells, he said it "triggers bone growth and mineralization." So he was presenting it as a good thing. The fact is animal protein triggers the growth of all cells in the body. That's why body builders eat large quantities of animal products. Animal protein also triggers the growth of muscle cells.

However, what is the implication for cancer? Animal protein, as doctor Davis has truthfully stated is very acidic. Whole books have been written on this subject and I have two of them. One was written by a nutritionist/doctor. And it has been stated that cancer thrives in an acid environment. Combine that with a faster metabolism and speeded up cell growth, and you raise your risk for cancer. That's why the author of the China Study, Dr. Campbell, states that animal protein promotes cancer.

Both Dr. Davis and Dr. Campbell see the same thing, i.e., faster cell growth and an acid environment. But Dr. Campbell comes to the right conclusion based on numerous studies and Dr. Davis just seems to ignore the possibility of cancer being a problem. Of course he does, because it doesn't fit his template. It would spoil everything to acknowledge that cancer might be a problem.

Yes, Dr. Davis mentioned that the acidity of animal protein can be balanced by eating fruits and vegetables. But did he mention that a white/red potato is highly acidic or that corn is highly acidic (corn on the cob is considered a vegetable)? Now stop to think: It's not likely that anyone can eat a high protein high fat diet and still have room for enough alkaline fruits and vegetables to get the ideal balance needed to help prevent cancer. And I sincerely doubt you can get enough natural fiber on his diet either.

Don't forget to think about the 7th Day Adventists. They are vegans and vegetarians, they enjoy good health and have an average life expectancy of 88 years. What will be the average life expectancy for those on a high protein high fat diet? Can Dr. Davis point to any large scale long-term study were his diet has succeeded for the average person? (I'm not asking about the 1 percent who suffer from celiac or IBS.)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Don't forget to think about the 7th Day Adventists. They are vegans and vegetarians, they enjoy good health and have an average life expectancy of 88 years.

As far as I know, the Seventh Day Adventists follow the dietary rules set out in leviticus. These are the same rules set out by Orthodox Jews. They eat meat and fish. The do ban alcohol and do not ban, but frown upon caffeine.

If they only eliminate alcohol that would eliminate all premature deaths due to alcoholism. I wonder how much that would raise the average life span?

I read recently where the FDA came out with warnings about saturated fats based on faulty information and bad studies. They also push us toward trans fats because it was better for the economy. When all the facts came out about trans fats, they told us we have to eliminate them as well.

Lowering our cholesterol can lead to diabetes and premature dementia. It seems that no matter what we do we're going to die from something. It's a matter of what you feel is more of a danger.

[Villages PL]

As far as I know, the Seventh Day Adventists follow the dietary rules set out in leviticus. These are the same rules set out by Orthodox Jews. They eat meat and fish. The do ban alcohol and do not ban, but frown upon caffeine.

If they only eliminate alcohol that would eliminate all premature deaths due to alcoholism. I wonder how much that would raise the average life span?

I read recently where the FDA came out with warnings about saturated fats based on faulty information and bad studies. They also push us toward trans fats because it was better for the economy. When all the facts came out about trans fats, they told us we have to eliminate them as well.

Lowering our cholesterol can lead to diabetes and premature dementia. It seems that no matter what we do we're going to die from something. It's a matter of what you feel is more of a danger.

Search: "Do Seventh-Day Adventists eat meat?" Answer from a Seventh-Day Adventist: The religion teaches that vegetarianism is healthier and veganism is even better. But no one is forced to do anything, it's a matter of choice. The thinking is, "....you should have a healthy body and lifestyle so you can better serve God!"

[Villages PL]

It seems that no matter what we do we're going to die from something. It's a matter of what you feel is more of a danger.

The biggest danger, in my opinion, is not being informed enough to know right from wrong, good from bad. When someone doesn't have enough nutrition knowledge, it leads to confusion. And when people get confused they tend to give up. The food industry does focus groups and is well aware of this. That's why they hire doctors, nutritionists and dietitians to put out information that suits their commercial perspective. And the commercial perspective, by definition, is going to be conflicting and confusing because it's not about health.

So people say, "I don't know what to believe anymore, I give up, I'm just going to eat what I like." Ka-ching!!!...$$$$$$ It means more sales of processed foods like pizza, ice cream, baked goods made with flour, sodas, chips and dips, fatty hamburgers, hotdogs, french fries etc..

[Villages PL]

[QUOTE=Dr Winston O Boogie jr;883721]
For the past fifty years or so, we have been told that a low fat, high carb diet is what we all need to stay healthy. The result has been that Americans are now fatter and less healthy than ever.


So....why not a low fat, LOW carb diet?

The old USDA food guide pyramid called for 8 to 11 servings of grain (bread, cereal, rice and pasta group). That took up the whole bottom section of the pyramid. That was clearly way too much.

The USDA food guide can be changed every 5 years. When it's time for change, they notify the public and anyone can recommend changes. The food industry has lobbyists that will then apply as much pressure as possible to get a favorable place or mention for their particular food, like grain.

It's mostly about promoting agriculture, not health.

Did people eat more grain because of USDA recommendations? I don't think so. Grain based products were very popular long before the USDA started making recommendations to eat more grain.

[Neal2tire]

I won't go into my medical background or health background but I can only say watch The Perfect Human Diet on netflix or amazon prime.
It changed my life and saved my life. My blood work and weight and all has shocked my Dr's here and my family back home (all cardiologists)
When asked how I did it, I simply said. Eating right. They have no idea what I meant. I have since encouraged our three grown daughters who have been sick for years with imagined Celiac disease. GONE! and their husbands who felt they were getting ill. BETTER THEN EVER
When you watch The perfect human diet. Turn off the phone and take notes.
enjoy
NG

[Villages PL]

I won't go into my medical background or health background but I can only say watch The Perfect Human Diet on netflix or amazon prime.
It changed my life and saved my life. My blood work and weight and all has shocked my Dr's here and my family back home (all cardiologists)
When asked how I did it, I simply said. Eating right. They have no idea what I meant. I have since encouraged our three grown daughters who have been sick for years with imagined Celiac disease. GONE! and their husbands who felt they were getting ill. BETTER THEN EVER
When you watch The perfect human diet. Turn off the phone and take notes.
enjoy
NG

Netflix? Amazon?

I'm already convinced that a gluten-free diet is a must for those who suffer from Celiac disease or other similar condition. I'm just not sure that it's the best diet for everyone. I read about 8 chapters of "Wheat Belly" and started the book, "Grain Brain", but I'm not very impressed by the two authors who are recommending this diet for everyone. Part of the problem is: What foods do you eat to replace grain? These two authors recommend eating more animal protein and fat. Both of these items are limited in nutrition and contain no fiber.

Anyone can go online and find out how much protein and fats are needed for their weight and activity level. Consuming beyond what's needed represents a lost oportunity to get much needed nutrients and fiber from fresh non-starchy vegetables.

Where is the science to back up the idea that a gluton-free diet is good for everyone? Also, where's the science to back up the idea that the average person should replace gluton by eating more animal protein and fat?

One of the biggest arguments against wheat consumption for the average person is that it has undergone great genetic modification. But it's never mentioned that there are grains available that haven't been modified. Another big argument is that people haven't had time to adapt to eating grain because it has only been available since the agricultural revolution. But they never apply the same reasoning to dairy products, vegetable oils, eggs, vitamin supplements, and many other products that are factory farmed and processed.