Gary Lester is my new Hero. Refuses to discuss Villages access with Stonecresters

[TheVillageChicken]

Stone Crest lobbies for golf cart access. Director of Community Relations for The Villages refuses to meet with their attack dog. (http://alturl.com/qyp6c)

[Cisco Kid]

Here we go

[DonH57]

For what purpose would they meet? Did people not listen the first around about it. Open and shut.

[njbchbum]

link kicks me out - alturl.com not working for my computer! would love to read about it but that's not gonna happen. :(

So I went to read the article in the on-line news! “It would seem an organization would want to bend over backwards to help veterans whether they want medical treatment or just to go shopping,” Oelrich said. Makes me wonder why the Stonecrest organization is not willing to help their residents who are veterans! Maybe the former senator should check with Stonecrest first!

[DougB]

June 2, 2014 By Meta Minton 1 Comment

The card-access gate off Paradise Drive in The Villages.
More than 50 people, many of them veterans, attended a meeting Monday afternoon at Stonecrest trying to find a way to gain golf cart access to The Villages.
Last summer, a wall abruptly went up on the Historic Side blocking a well-traveled golf cart path allowing residents to have access to Wal-Mart and Lowes, outside The Villages. Residents rebelled and within a week, the wall came down. The wall was later replaced by a card-access gate. The gate allows Villlagers in and out, but Stonecresters and others are kept out of The Villages.
Steve Oelrich, a former Republican state senator, has gotten involved with the group to help find a solution.
Oelrich said in particular he got involved because he wants to ensure veterans access to medical care, including the VA Outpatient Clinic on County Road 42 in The Villages
Oelrich said he tried to set up a meeting with Gary Lester, vice president of community relations for The Villages.
He quoted Lester as saying there was no point in setting up a meeting. He said that Lester said that non-Villages residents were not going to be granted access to Villages amenities.
“‘It’s not just no,’” Oelrich quoted Lester as saying. “‘It’s hell no.’”
Oelrich said he was puzzled by the response.
“It would seem an organization would want to bend over backwards to help veterans whether they want medical treatment or just to go shopping,” Oelrich said.
He said he has talked to Marion County Sheriff Chris Blair who has indicated he will gather facts about the situation and will approach Villages developer Gary Morse about a possible resolution.
The sheriff sent Lt. Louis Pulford to act as his observer at the meeting. Stonecresters said that in addition to medical appointments, they want to access restaurants and shopping opportunities in The Villages. Those opportunities are accessible by automobile, but not by golf cart.
“To me it doesn’t pass the straight-face test,” Oelrich said. “It seems like The Villages is trying to promote a ‘them versus us’ mentality.”
He pledged to continue working with his contacts in the state legislature and elsewhere to resolve the issue.
He also collected names and contact information to continue the dialogue on this topic.

[travelguy]

cant you just push the button and the gate opens? remember, we are a community with ates, not a gated community. there are gates on morse blvd and anyone can go thru, and the golf carts can go around the gates....anyone can get through!

[DonH57]

cant you just push the button and the gate opens? remember, we are a community with ates, not a gated community. there are gates oth heren morse blvd and anyone can go thru, and the golf carts can go around the gates....anyone can get through!

No push button on the gate in guestion because there is no public street traffic. The gate is located on private property. If it was an auto traffic gate it would have a button.

[VT2TV]

I am sure that every one of the residents from Stonecrest who needs to go to the VA for health care has a car that they can use to go to the VA. If not, I feel sure they have friends at Stonecrest who would be more than happy to drive them to the VA. Or maybe that Senator who is so very concerned with the Veterans getting to the VA would be happy to take them. How in the world can Stonecrest even try to justify using our multimodal pathways when the have a gated community???????
My husband is a Veteran, and I do hope that the people who need health care at the VA are able to get the care, but I can not for any reason think that the gates to the multimodal pathways are preventing them from getting there. What have they done for the past 3 or 4 years????? Or however long the VA has been there. The residents from Stonecrest just keep trying to stir the pot. They knew when they moved to Stonecrest that they would not have access to the Villages multimodal paths. They made the choice to move there. If they want to have the same priviledges of TV, they certainly have the right to sell their place there and move here. Then they can pay the same bonds and the same ammenties that we pay.
I know this will receive comments from some who say they have no problems with them using the multimodal pathways. But for everyone on here who doesn't mind, I guarantee there are hundreds or thousands who do.

[Villager Dude]

Is this the real reason the head of the VA recently resigned?

I guess Stonecrest wants us to foot the bill thru our amenities so they can enjoy some of The Village lifestyle without paying.

What if we all wanted to go there and use their pool and other amenities without paying.

The VA Clinic is open to all Veterans and is accessible by car. I think the developer donated the land, and paid most of the cost to build before turning it over to the VA.

If it was not for TV it would not be there i.e. it would not have been built for Stonecrest.

I am a Veteran and Believe all Veterans should have the proper care due them and those eligible can use the VA Clinic.

[Cajulian]

For your info, at the Paradise Gate there are no Multi-modal paths being used. So for the past 12 years carts came and went in both directions by Villagers going to Walmart/lowes/Aldi's, etc and Stonecresters going to doctors/post office/ Spanish Springs Town square.

It worked just fine for over a decade. The Villages were not over-run by Stonecresters. So no one is using Villages amenities for free. Villagers don't own the Hospitals, Doctors, Stores, Restaurants, Town Squares, or Streets.

Some people are so wrapped up and consumed by fears of "Stolen Amenities" that they worry themselves crazy over nothing.

[Fourpar]

VT2TV, well put.......No reason at all for TV to meet with Stonecrest folks to address this issue.

[Cajulian]

I guess Stonecrest wants us to foot the bill thru our amenities so they can enjoy some of The Village lifestyle without paying.

What if we all wanted to go there and use their pool and other amenities without paying.

The VA Clinic is open to all Veterans and is accessible by car. I think the developer donated the land, and paid most of the cost to build before turning it over to the VA.

If it was not for TV it would not be there i.e. it would not have been built for Stonecrest.

I am a Veteran and Believe all Veterans should have the proper care due them and those eligible can use the VA Clinic.


PLEASE TELL US, Just what free amenities do you think all these Stonecresters are using in The Villages? Some of us would really like to know, so we can build a fence around them and protect them from "Poachers".

No Stonecresters, sneak in to use Villages pools, they have their own! They don't sneak in to use Villages Golf courses, they have their own!

They do Shop at public stores! They do support all the public restaurants! They do pay tax dollars in the same county Villagers live in, helping to support the county tax burden! They do use many of the public Health Care facilities! Are all these the Villages Lifestyle things that you think are bring used by Stonecresters??

Like I said before, Villagers are their own worst enemy. The enemy is Us!


chilout

[TVMayor]

Steve Oelrich, a former Republican state senator, wants to talk to the wrong person. Gary Lester is not the person responsible for the gate being built. It was the city of Lady Lake that said the wall must come down and a gate must be installed to meet the description in plans on file dated 199?.

[CFrance]

PLEASE TELL US, Just what free amenities do you think all these Stonecresters are using in The Villages? Some of us would really like to know, so we can build a fence around them and protect them from "Poachers".

No Stonecresters, sneak in to use Villages pools, they have their own! They don't sneak in to use Villages Golf courses, they have their own!

They do Shop at public stores! They do support all the public restaurants! They do pay tax dollars in the same county Villagers live in, helping to support the county tax burden! They do use many of the public Health Care facilities! Are all these the Villages Lifestyle things that you think are bring used by Stonecresters??

Like I said before, Villagers are their own worst enemy. The enemy is Us!


chilout
Been all over this last year. Do a search and your question will be answered.

[VT2TV]

PLEASE TELL US, Just what free amenities do you think all these Stonecresters are using in The Villages? Some of us would really like to know, so we can build a fence around them and protect them from "Poachers".

No Stonecresters, sneak in to use Villages pools, they have their own! They don't sneak in to use Villages Golf courses, they have their own!

They do Shop at public stores! They do support all the public restaurants! They do pay tax dollars in the same county Villagers live in, helping to support the county tax burden! They do use many of the public Health Care facilities! Are all these the Villages Lifestyle things that you think are bring used by Stonecresters??

Like I said before, Villagers are their own worst enemy. The enemy is Us!


chilout





Never said the people from Stonecrest used our pools or golf courses. They might, but I don't know. The things like the stores, health care facilities, squares are certainly available to everyone. No one is preventing anyone from using them. BUT, the multimodal pathways are PRIVATE PROPERTY of The Villages, and paid for, at least in part by our ammenties. The Villages do not receive funding for the multimodal pathways because, again---they are PRIVATE PROPERTY. The people outside the Villages have other ways of getting to the PUBLIC places. NO ONE is stopping that. If TV let Stonecrest use the MM pathways, then the people everywhere would want to use them, and then the people who are paying for the priviledge of using them would be bumper to bumper on the pathways. If the people from anywhere feel so strongly about using them, then go the legal route, and buy a home in TV. And by the way......if the people from Stonecrest feel so strongly about everyone being able to use everything, everywhere----why is there a gate at Stonecrest keeping people out???????? You never know, people might want to come to Stonecrest and support the shops or whatever there. Seems like a double standard to me.

[Barefoot]

Steve Oelrich was a Senator.
Is this just a political ploy?
It's not surprising that an attempt is being made to muddy the waters.
In my opinion, it's dirty pool to imply that Villagers are "anti Veteran",
just because most are against giving Stoners access to Village golf-cart paths.

[Carl in Tampa]

If someone wants The Villages "lifestyle" and use of the PRIVATELY OWNED AMENITIES, like the multi-modal paths, the solution is simple.

Buy a home in The Villages.

The rant about access to the VA clinic is a red herring.


.

[CFrance]

Steve Oelrich was a Senator.
Is this just a political ploy?
It's not surprising that an attempt is being made to muddy the waters.
In my opinion, it's dirty pool to imply that Villagers are "anti Veteran",
just because most are against giving Stoners access to Village golf-cart paths.

If someone wants The Villages "lifestyle" and use of the PRIVATELY OWNED AMENITIES, like the multi-modal paths, the solution is simple.

Buy a home in The Villages.

The rant about access to the VA clinic is a red herring.


.
I agree with both of you. The Senator is seizing a political opportunity in the light of the current bad VA publicity, and the group coming together claiming they are having access denied to the VA is being disingenuous. They basically want their shortcut back.

I believe they will have a very tough uphill battle against the developer.

[Janette1]

I would like to count the times that I have heard "I can do everything you can do in The Villages and not pay your bonds or amenities." I, for one, am happy to know the new gate works.

[Cisco Kid]

I would like to count the times that I have heard "I can do everything you can do in The Villages and not pay your bonds or amenities." I, for one, am happy to know the new gate works.

True That.
I had a realtor tell me that about a small Truly Gated Community north of Umattilla Fl. Offered to show me the club house. :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[rubicon]

The Senator's ploy is a canard. Its clear Stonecrest sold homes with the claim that buyers still could have The Villages Lifestyle without paying amenities. Clearly if that is not the case then why do these people continue this campaign.

In my view if non villages residents can travel freely on private multi-modal pathways then I am going to fight to have my amenities fees reduced.

As to charging non villagers amenity fees to use the pathways consider that we are not even at complete build out and the pathways are clogged now

[baustgen]

Simple solution. Issue a gate card to anyone who wants to pay $ 147.00 per month. Only good for the gate. Not for access to pools or golf.

[Mickedamouse24]

I must have not read somewhere that the VA Clinic mentioned has been moved! How does this gate stop veterans from accessing the VA Clinic on Hwy 42? Seems to be a good distance in a different direction from that gate and the clinic! Just saying!!!

[juneroses]

I had an "unwelcoming" event with Stonecrest several years ago. My husband and I, Villagers, traveled via golf cart to Lowe's and Wal-Mart. Saw the path to Stonecrest and I suggested going to the community to see what it was like.

We stopped at the access gate but were pleasantly denied entry. We could only proceed if a realtor accompanied us. We were surprised but were pleasant back and left.

Leaves me a bit unsympathetic to their wish for entry thru the access gate in question.

[Cisco Kid]

I had an "unwelcoming" event with Stonecrest several years ago. My husband and I, Villagers, traveled via golf cart to Lowe's and Wal-Mart. Saw the path to Stonecrest and I suggested going to the community to see what it was like.

We stopped at the access gate but were pleasantly denied entry. We could only proceed if a realtor accompanied us. We were surprised but were pleasant back and left.

Leaves me a bit unsympathetic to their wish for entry thru the access gate in question.

:boom: There it is

[Steph]

Not having moved in yet and thus no bearings, I googled Stonecrest to see where it is and its proximity to TV. I copied the following verbiage from a **** listing. It would seem that TV access by golf cart is a marketing highlight. Hopefully pasting this doesn't violate any of those copyright laws!
Stonecrest is a beautiful over 55 community, situated approx one mile north on the 27 from Spanish Springs.Our Home is a 3 bedroom...
...
There is a Four Seat Gas Golf Cart at the house which enables access to Wal-Mart, Bealls, Lowes and the whole of the Villages with their Shops and Restaurants.

[Steve & Deanna]

I had an "unwelcoming" event with Stonecrest several years ago. My husband and I, Villagers, traveled via golf cart to Lowe's and Wal-Mart. Saw the path to Stonecrest and I suggested going to the community to see what it was like.

We stopped at the access gate but were pleasantly denied entry. We could only proceed if a realtor accompanied us. We were surprised but were pleasant back and left.

Leaves me a bit unsympathetic to their wish for entry thru the access gate in question.

The same thing happened to us quite a few years ago although we were in our car. We just wanted to tour the place and we could NOT get in unless accompanied by a realtor. Made a U turn and we were gone. The rest is history.....posted by Happy Villagers

[Steve & Deanna]

For those playing the 'Veterans Card', it is NOT the responsibility of The Villages to get veterans, or anybody else for that matter, to a doctor's appointment.

[dillywho]

For your info, at the Paradise Gate there are no Multi-modal paths being used. So for the past 12 years carts came and went in both directions by Villagers going to Walmart/lowes/Aldi's, etc and Stonecresters going to doctors/post office/ Spanish Springs Town square.

It worked just fine for over a decade. The Villages were not over-run by Stonecresters. So no one is using Villages amenities for free. Villagers don't own the Hospitals, Doctors, Stores, Restaurants, Town Squares, or Streets.

Some people are so wrapped up and consumed by fears of "Stolen Amenities" that they worry themselves crazy over nothing.

I beg to differ with you. Don't know if it is still happening or not, but at one point some were selling their property in TV and moving to Stonecrest to avoid paying the amenities here. Using their out-of-state ID, they would then get their friends in TV to get them guest passes. Shame on those friends doing that!:cus: That, by the way, is known as "gaming" the system.

They can come in and play the Championship courses as non-residents, however.....just not by cart anymore. They have to drive in and then rent a cart. I had some ladies from there ask me one day at Hacienda if I could get them guest passes so that they could play the executive courses, too. My answer? No.

[CFrance]

I beg to differ with you. Don't know if it is still happening or not, but at one point some were selling their property in TV and moving to Stonecrest to avoid paying the amenities here. Using their out-of-state ID, they would then get their friends in TV to get them guest passes. Shame on those friends doing that!:cus: That, by the way, is known as "gaming" the system.

They can come in a play the Championship courses as non-residents, however.....just not by cart anymore. They have to drive in and then rent a cart. I had some ladies from there ask me one day at Hacienda if I could get them guest passes so that they could play the executive courses, too. My answer? No.
There's always somebody who wants something for nothing.

[Cedwards38]

Oelrich said. “It seems like The Villages is trying to promote a ‘them versus us’ mentality.”

That's right. Them don't pay, us does. I have no problem offering an access card to anyone in Stonecrest who wants to pay the standard amenity fee to get it. I have heard more than one smug Stonecrester say, "We get so much more home for the money than in The Villages." Fine, stay there and enjoy it, or help us pay for our lifestyle if you want to use it. In The Villages we bought a lifestyle along with our home. Apparently you didn't.

I also attempted to visit Stonecrest one day (in a car) to see what was there, and was turned away at the gate. The Villages doesn't do that.

[ukbill70]

To repeat what others have said before, it's very simple. if Stonecresters want to enjoy the Villagers lifestyle buy a home in the Villages and pay the amenity fees . STOP looking for a free ride. As for The VA and other medical offices in or out of the Villages they are all accessible by car.

[DonH57]

I don't know the feelings of other veterans here in the villages but as a veteran I'm appalled at the ploy of using veterans for political purposes like this. This whole gate business has nothing to do with vets not getting to a VA facility. Last time I checked the facility was right off 42. What? 5 minutes from stonecrest by car, if that. It would take 25 minutes or more by golf cart in good weather. Funny how long it's been since this gate business arose again. If I lived in stonecrest I would be grasping for straws too, or sell my house and move to the villages.

[CFrance]

I don't know the feelings of other veterans here in the villages but as a veteran I'm appalled at the ploy of using veterans for political purposes like this. This whole gate business has nothing to do with vets not getting to a VA facility. Last time I checked the facility was right off 42. What? 5 minutes from stonecrest by car, if that. It would take 25 minutes or more by golf cart in good weather. Funny how long it's been since this gate business arose again. If I lived in stonecrest I would be grasping for straws to or sell my house and move to the villages.
My thoughts exactly. The veterans are being used by some very greedy people. A red herring, as Carl said earlier.

[njbchbum]

If someone wants The Villages "lifestyle" and use of the PRIVATELY OWNED AMENITIES, like the multi-modal paths, the solution is simple.

Buy a home in The Villages.

The rant about access to the VA clinic is a red herring.


.

It sure is a red herring! And the proof of that is in this paragraph from the article, "The sheriff sent Lt. Louis Pulford to act as his observer at the meeting. Stonecresters said that in addition to medical appointments, they want to access restaurants and shopping opportunities in The Villages. Those opportunities are accessible by automobile, but not by golf cart."

[rdhdleo]

If the people in Stonecrest were truly concerned abut Veterans getting to Doctors and and the VA Clinic then why not start a shuttle service from Stonecrest to these places for a small fee to their residents who may need to benefit such a service? Just a thought.

[CFrance]

If the people in Stonecrest were truly concerned abut Veterans getting to Doctors and and the VA Clinic then why not start a shuttle service from Stonecrest to these places for a small fee to their residents who may need an benefit such a service? Just a thought.
Because that won't get them what they REALLY want!

[perrjojo]

It is shameful to use our Veterans name for this purpose. We need to focus on getting them an appointment first! Shame on those using the Veterans for their own agenda!

[Mudder]

To get to the VA clinic from Stonecrest by golf cart would take at least 45 minutes. 15 minutes in a car seems like a better choice, especially when it's cold out or very hot out. Shame on Stonecrest for "using" the veterans.

[DonH57]

To get to the VA clinic from Stonecrest by golf cart would take at least 45 minutes. 15 minutes in a car seems like a better choice, especially when it's cold out or very hot out. Shame on Stonecrest for "using" the veterans.

Your travel times are more accurate than mine according to my phone map app. Thanks for the correction. I don't know about you but when I have to see my doctor I go the quickest direct way.

[Barefoot]

In my opinion, it's dirty pool to imply that Villagers are "anti Veteran",
just because most are against giving Stoners access to Village golf-cart paths.

I don't know the feelings of other veterans here in the villages but as a veteran I'm appalled at the ploy of using veterans for political purposes like this. This whole gate business has nothing to do with vets not getting to a VA facility.

It is shameful to use our Veterans name for this purpose. Shame on those using the Veterans for their own agenda!

Stoners aren't giving up on their fight to gain access to The Villages golf-cart paths.
It's just sad and disingenuous that they would use sympathy for Veterans as a political ploy to gain access.

[ditka41]

NO PAY, NO PLAY! --- Proximity does not provide open access to your neighbor's "stuff". Keep them off our pathways, pools, courses, and please don't fall for the "Veteran's" smokescreen. Is there no shame in even attempting that cheap ploy? We shopped around and decided the amenities offered by The Villages are worth the extra price. People wanting full access are welcome to purchase here also as we continue expanding.

[janmcn]

NO PAY, NO PLAY! --- Proximity does not provide open access to your neighbor's "stuff". Keep them off our pathways, and don't fall for the "Veteran's" smokescreen. They have no shame in even attempting that cheap ploy.


Do the residents of Bison Valley have golf cart access to The Villages? Just wondering because they do not pay an amenity fee. Residents of Oak Meadow have golf cart access with their own gate just behind Target.

[USSGompers]

Do the residents of Bison Valley have golf cart access to The Villages? Just wondering because they do not pay an amenity fee. Residents of Oak Meadow have golf cart access with their own gate just behind Target.

You certainly have a point. When my Mom lived in Oak Meadows for 10 yrs before she passed, she never paid an ammenity fee. Grant it, she had no Village ID card but was able to take a golf cart down the road and go to Spanish Springs, etc...from there---the possibilities were endless--and she never paid a dime.

[Erijo]

In all honesty, how can a Stone Crester justify using our amenities without paying for them? This politician who is involved, don't the residents/Veterans in Stone Crest realize he is using them for his own political gain? Also, IMHO, I think that if anyone was permitted to use amenities that we as Villagers pay for, there would be a huge revolt on the part of Villagers. I also think think there would be multiple lawyers involved "protecting" what Villagers pay for or perhaps a huge refund of amenities fees. :)

[VT2TV]

Do the residents of Bison Valley have golf cart access to The Villages? Just wondering because they do not pay an amenity fee. Residents of Oak Meadow have golf cart access with their own gate just behind Target.

You certainly have a point. When my Mom lived in Oak Meadows for 10 yrs before she passed, she never paid an ammenity fee. Grant it, she had no Village ID card but was able to take a golf cart down the road and go to Spanish Springs, etc...from there---the possibilities were endless--and she never paid a dime.




Certainly did not know that. Maybe that should be brought up to the " powers that be." I do not want the Stonecrest people using our multimodal pathways AT ALL, and if these people have golf cart access without paying the amenities,then they should be stopped also. If you are going to block someone, then you should block everyone who is not part of the Villages. I also agree that this Senator is just riding the "Veterans and Healthcare" bandwagon that is very much in the news now. Where was all this public outcry about the Veterans, and lack of good healthcare 3 months ago and definitely before that???? Veterans should have ALWAYS had access to good and available healthcare--take a survey of all the cars and other non-golf carts means of transportation at Stonecrest. I am very, very sure they have more than adequate means of getting all the Veterans and everyone else everywhere they need to be without using Village PRIVATE PROPERTY!!!

[njbchbum]

Do the residents of Bison Valley have golf cart access to The Villages? Just wondering because they do not pay an amenity fee. Residents of Oak Meadow have golf cart access with their own gate just behind Target.

Bison Valley and Spring Arbor are listed as having homes for sale on the Villages home page. I can only assume Oak Meadows would also be listed if the Villages had any listings there.

Because they are neighborhoods for Villages employees can we assume that they have limited benefits such as multi-modal paths and schools for which they do not pay an amenity fee?

[Cajulian]

Been all over this last year. Do a search and your question will be answered.

Don't need to do a search. I have read every message ever listed on this topic. The things I mentioned in my last Post are all public facilities. No amenities are being used by the Stonecresters.

If you believe they are using the Villages pools and golf courses, when they have their own, then it sounds like your Thinking is mis-guided by propaganda on this website.

[Cajulian]

It is shameful to use our Veterans name for this purpose. We need to focus on getting them an appointment first! Shame on those using the Veterans for their own agenda!

It happens to be actual Veterans that are asking for access to public medical facilities in a more convenient way like they had before for many years.

What's shameful about that. Are you a veteran? If you are, you should understand their need.

[Cajulian]

To get to the VA clinic from Stonecrest by golf cart would take at least 45 minutes. 15 minutes in a car seems like a better choice, especially when it's cold out or very hot out. Shame on Stonecrest for "using" the veterans.

Shame on you for not understanding the Veterans request. They want access to medical care like they had before (not VA specific). There are doctors within easy reach and convenient for them that they had easy access to for over a decade.

No one is using the Vererans. They are the advocates.

[Cajulian]

:ho:In all honesty, how can a Stone Crester justify using our amenities without paying for them? This politician who is involved, don't the residents/Veterans in Stone Crest realize he is using them for his own political gain? Also, IMHO, I think that if anyone was permitted to use amenities that we as Villagers pay for, there would be a huge revolt on the part of Villagers. I also think think there would be multiple lawyers involved "protecting" what Villagers pay for or perhaps a huge refund of amenities fees. :)

Again, I will ask the "Question". This has never been answered. Just what ACTUAL AMENITIES are you talking about? Why does everyone keep mentioning Pools and Golf Courses?

No Stonecresters sneak in to use these amenities or the Rec Centers. They only come in and use the PUBLIC facilities that are AVAILABLE to everyone.

[rubicon]

The more I read here the madder I get. Gaming the system, any system here, is a direct assault on residents. Think carefully you were told outright that the cost to buy here was more and that it was worth the price because of the Lifestyle. If you agreed you then were given a breakdown of the fees you were required to pay. Those who purchased homes were given the rules of engagement.

What we have learned is non-villagers by hook or crook found ways to play executive courses, use pools, multi-modal pathways, etc. We found residents who utilized ghost golfers to game the tee time system. Its a "I'll take what I want and you take what you want attitude" Selfish greedy people

Now I am learning that some folks sold their homes in TV moved to Stonecrest and continued utilizing amenities.

This stuff can't be ignored because it will eventually bring all of this down

Gary Lester, Morse whoever has the power needs to use it.

I am probably one of the few that would have left the wall up

One last comment suggesting that non villager pay an amenity fee to gain access is also not the right thing to do because those of us residing here paid a premium for that right and both the Developer and residents should have a common interest in protecting this investment

[mickey100]

this is a dumb thread. a bunch of blowhards . its simple, live here use the facilitys....don't live here then you don't use the facilitys......period!!

I agree - it is a really dumb thread. I've never seen Stone Cresters using our pools or golf courses. Not saying it doesnt happen, but IF it does happen, it must be on an extremely small scale. It doesn't even make sense. They have their own course, and own pool.

They want to continue to have golf cart access to medical facilities. I don't have a problem with that.

[TheVillageChicken]

Here is my opinion. They claim to want golf cart access to medical care. What they really want is golf cart access to "Chairs in Squares."

[janmcn]

The more I read here the madder I get. Gaming the system, any system here, is a direct assault on residents. Think carefully you were told outright that the cost to buy here was more and that it was worth the price because of the Lifestyle. If you agreed you then were given a breakdown of the fees you were required to pay. Those who purchased homes were given the rules of engagement.

What we have learned is non-villagers by hook or crook found ways to play executive courses, use pools, multi-modal pathways, etc. We found residents who utilized ghost golfers to game the tee time system. Its a "I'll take what I want and you take what you want attitude" Selfish greedy people

Now I am learning that some folks sold their homes in TV moved to Stonecrest and continued utilizing amenities.

This stuff can't be ignored because it will eventually bring all of this down

Gary Lester, Morse whoever has the power needs to use it.

I am probably one of the few that would have left the wall up

One last comment suggesting that non villager pay an amenity fee to gain access is also not the right thing to do because those of us residing here paid a premium for that right and both the Developer and residents should have a common interest in protecting this investment


Gary Morse's real estate company is advertising homes for sale in Bison Valley that are Golf Cart Accessible to The Villages, without being charged an amenity fee or bond. Not only are they Golf Cart Accessible, but a special golf cart path was built by the developer to access Woodbridge Ave.

[graciegirl]

Gary Morse's real estate company is advertising homes for sale in Bison Valley that are Golf Cart Accessible to The Villages, without being charged an amenity fee or bond. Not only are they Golf Cart Accessible, but a special golf cart path was built by the developer to access Woodbridge Ave.



He built it. He is allowed to advertise it. It is part made for families of workers. It is part of The Villages in that sense. Not a biggie. He built the golf cart path so the kids could get to the charter school??? What do you think Janmcn?

[Cajulian]

Here is my opinion. They claim to want golf cart access to medical care. What they really want is golf cart access to "Chairs in Squares."

VillageChicken, you are hilarious! Stonecresters already have access to all the Chairs in the Squares! They drive to the Squares in Truckloads!

Hurry, let's all go and make sure no one else gets any Chairs! We can surround all the Squares in our "Covered Wagons"! We will have All the Chairs to ourselves.

I'm In!!!!

:boxing2:

[Rags123]

Gary Morse's real estate company is advertising homes for sale in Bison Valley that are Golf Cart Accessible to The Villages, without being charged an amenity fee or bond. Not only are they Golf Cart Accessible, but a special golf cart path was built by the developer to access Woodbridge Ave.

I am not at all sure what this has remotely to do with the issue at hand. Could you enlighten, at least me, because the relativity escapes me totally !

One, a development with ABSOLUTELY NO RELATIONSHIP to The Villages, and in fact a long time so called "option" to The Villages....the other, a adjunct to The Villages, built by The Villages for a specific purpose which is Villages related.

I would love to hear more on this theory !

[Topspinmo]

"There are doctors within easy reach and convenient for them that they had easy access to for over a decade".

don't you mean getting away with it for decade? What part of accessing private property do you not understand?

I want to public access to Stonecrest. Why can't I enter?? "Daa" PRIVATE Property end of discussion.

[Indy-Guy]

My opinion

This all goes back to The Villages purchase of the Dairy Farm in Fruitland Park. Fruitland Park is a town that allows golf carts and I believe it was Mr Lester who told the Fruitland Commission that there was no way there would be access by Fruitland Park residents in golf cart to The Villages. This meeting was before the Dairy Farm was a done deal and The Villages only had an option to purchase. Mr Lester told the Fruitland Park commission that this was a deal breaker and not open for negotiation. There are now 2,000 homes to be built on the Dairy Farm property. With this investment now going full steam ahead I believe Mr Lester believes it is still not open for negotiation.

A couple of months or so before that meeting was when the wall went up cutting off Stone Crest. I don't think that is a coincidence. Mr Lester would have had a hard time telling the Fruitland Park Commission they could no golf cart access while Stone Crest is allowed into Villages.

Now that the Fruitland Park part of The Villages is now going full speed ahead The Villages will do everything and I do mean everything it can do to keep this the way it is set up at this time.

This is only my opinion.

[janmcn]

I am not at all sure what this has remotely to do with the issue at hand. Could you enlighten, at least me, because the relativity escapes me totally !

One, a development with ABSOLUTELY NO RELATIONSHIP to The Villages, and in fact a long time so called "option" to The Villages....the other, a adjunct to The Villages, built by The Villages for a specific purpose which is Villages related.

I would love to hear more on this theory !


The theory is that people are outraged that Stonecresters might be using the golf cart paths without paying the monthly amenity fee, but when the developer provides these same amenities without an amenity fee to others, there is only silence. Where is the outrage over the hypocrisy?

[Cisco Kid]

The buildout is coming
The buildout is coming
The buildout is coming

This stuff is only going to get worse.

No homes will be left.

I don't want to be a Stoner. :1rotfl:

Someone hold a house for me.

[Steve9930]

Here we go again but before all the Villages try and burn the witches of Stonecrest there is one thing you better take into account. Stonecrest takes care of the storm water for the historic side that butts up against Stonecrest property. That's right we handle your storm water so you did not have to spend a large sum of money because what you had was not adequate. We do that for you because you are our neighbors and were in need and we don't charge you a dime, not one red cent. We took responsibility when you needed something and we pay for it! Now I could careless whether I have access via golf cart to the Commercial Section of the Villages. I personally believe the Golf Cart Bridge is more dangerous then crossing 441/27 with a Golf Cart. If I want to use a Golf Cart Style Vehicle to access the shopping and restaurants then it is fairly cheep to do so and more convenient then trying to get across the bridge. The smartest thing The Villages could do is sell access to the paths and that way get some revenue to help pay for the maintenance. This approach satisfies both parties. Those that need access get it and the Villager's get revenue and maintain control over the access. Throwing stones at each other is only going to widen the gap between the communities. Also by the way since we have the only lighted pickle ball courts in the area it is not uncommon for Villager's to be playing there in the hot summer evening nights.

[Steve9930]

Simple solution. Issue a gate card to anyone who wants to pay $ 147.00 per month. Only good for the gate. Not for access to pools or golf.

Then they get access to everything at $147/MO.

[Cisco Kid]

Here we go again but before all the Villages try and burn the witches of Stonecrest there is one thing you better take into account. Stonecrest takes care of the storm water for the historic side that butts up against Stonecrest property. That's right we handle your storm water so you did not have to spend a large sum of money because what you had was not adequate. We do that for you because you are our neighbors and were in need and we don't charge you a dime, not one red cent. We took responsibility when you needed something and we pay for it! Now I could careless whether I have access via golf cart to the Commercial Section of the Villages. I personally believe the Golf Cart Bridge is more dangerous then crossing 441/27 with a Golf Cart. If I want to use a Golf Cart Style Vehicle to access the shopping and restaurants then it is fairly cheep to do so and more convenient then trying to get across the bridge. The smartest thing The Villages could do is sell access to the paths and that way get some revenue to help pay for the maintenance. This approach satisfies both parties. Those that need access get it and the Villager's get revenue and maintain control over the access. Throwing stones at each other is only going to widen the gap between the communities. Also by the way since we have the only lighted pickle ball courts in the area it is not uncommon for Villager's to be playing there in the hot summer evening nights.


Thank you for the water control.

[Steve9930]

My opinion

This all goes back to The Villages purchase of the Dairy Farm in Fruitland Park. Fruitland Park is a town that allows golf carts and I believe it was Mr Lester who told the Fruitland Commission that there was no way there would be access by Fruitland Park residents in golf cart to The Villages. This meeting was before the Dairy Farm was a done deal and The Villages only had an option to purchase. Mr Lester told the Fruitland Park commission that this was a deal breaker and not open for negotiation. There are now 2,000 homes to be built on the Dairy Farm property. With this investment now going full steam ahead I believe Mr Lester believes it is still not open for negotiation.

A couple of months or so before that meeting was when the wall went up cutting off Stone Crest. I don't think that is a coincidence. Mr Lester would have had a hard time telling the Fruitland Park Commission they could no golf cart access while Stone Crest is allowed into Villages.

Now that the Fruitland Park part of The Villages is now going full speed ahead The Villages will do everything and I do mean everything it can do to keep this the way it is set up at this time.

This is only my opinion.

Bullseye!!!!

[justjim]

Stonecresters would like to access TV in a regular golf cart. This issue when you look at it objectively is about $$$$$$$.

If you live in Stonecrest you can already access TV with a Street Legal Golf Cart. However, they cost more and insurance is $50 - $60 a month. Regular golf cart insurance currently is less than $10 a month. Go figure. Still a Street Legal is a lot cheaper than what Villagers pay -----if you are going to dance, somebody has to pay the fiddler!

Using Veteran's is nothing but a smokescreen. And a shame. Bizarre doesn't even do this justice.

Neighbor vs. Neighbor doesn't usually have a good outcome no matter the issue.

[Steve9930]

Thank you for the water control.

Your welcome. I don't know every detail but the cost to fix it was probably really large and I'm not sure there was enough land to even fix it. So our storm water pond was expanded and yours now flows over into ours. Glad we could be of assistance. We may live in different developments but we are all Floridians.

[TheVillageChicken]

VillageChicken, you are hilarious! Stonecresters already have access to all the Chairs in the Squares! They drive to the Squares in Truckloads!

Hurry, let's all go and make sure no one else gets any Chairs! We can surround all the Squares in our "Covered Wagons"! We will have All the Chairs to ourselves.

I'm In!!!!

:boxing2:

I referred to "golf cart access," but I like your logic....they already have access to everything they purport they need to access. They just need to come in truckloads instead of golf carts.

[njbchbum]

Your welcome. I don't know every detail but the cost to fix it was probably really large and I'm not sure there was enough land to even fix it. So our storm water pond was expanded and yours now flows over into ours. Glad we could be of assistance. We may live in different developments but we are all Floridians.

Does that accumulation of water in the Stonecrest pond not benefit the residents there?

[CFrance]

this is a dumb thread. a bunch of blowhards . its simple, live here use the facilitys....don't live here then you don't use the facilitys......period!!
:bigbow:Including the golf cart trails maintained by others' dollars.

[njbchbum]

:ho:

Again, I will ask the "Question". This has never been answered. Just what ACTUAL AMENITIES are you talking about? Why does everyone keep mentioning Pools and Golf Courses?

No Stonecresters sneak in to use these amenities or the Rec Centers. They only come in and use the PUBlIC facilities that are AVAILABLE to everyone.

Multi-modal paths! Maintained with our amenity fees! And already sufficiently filled with traffic from those residents; even more crowed when seasonal residents/visitors arrive!

Stonecresters who want to use Villages public facilities would be required to use those paths; and Villagers believe we should not be providing that resource on our dime to those who do not pay for the amenity.

Why should Stonecresters have free use of that amenity which we pay for?

[janmcn]

Multi-modal paths! Maintained with our amenity fees! And already sufficiently filled with traffic from those residents; even more crowed when seasonal residents/visitors arrive!

Stonecresters who want to use Villages public facilities would be required to use those paths; and Villagers believe we should not be providing that resource on our dime to those who do not pay for the amenity.

Why should Stonecresters have free use of that amenity which we pay for?

This is the exact point I was trying to make earlier. Why should Bison Valley residents and Oak Meadows residents have free use of that amenity which we pay for? And these residents are much more likely to use other TV amenities, such as pools and golf, since they have none unlike Stonecresters.

[perrjojo]

Multi-modal paths! Maintained with our amenity fees! And already sufficiently filled with traffic from those residents; even more crowed when seasonal residents/visitors arrive!

Stonecresters who want to use Villages public facilities would be required to use those paths; and Villagers believe we should not be providing that resource on our dime to those who do not pay for the amenity.

Why should Stonecresters have free use of that amenity which we pay for?

Here we go again but before all the Villages try and burn the witches of Stonecrest there is one thing you better take into account. Stonecrest takes care of the storm water for the historic side that butts up against Stonecrest property. That's right we handle your storm water so you did not have to spend a large sum of money because what you had was not adequate. We do that for you because you are our neighbors and were in need and we don't charge you a dime, not one red cent. We took responsibility when you needed something and we pay for it! Now I could careless whether I have access via golf cart to the Commercial Section of the Villages. I personally believe the Golf Cart Bridge is more dangerous then crossing 441/27 with a Golf Cart. If I want to use a Golf Cart Style Vehicle to access the shopping and restaurants then it is fairly cheep to do so and more convenient then trying to get across the bridge. The smartest thing The Villages could do is sell access to the paths and that way get some revenue to help pay for the maintenance. This approach satisfies both parties. Those that need access get it and the Villager's get revenue and maintain control over the access. Throwing stones at each other is only going to widen the gap between the communities. Also by the way since we have the only lighted pickle ball courts in the area it is not uncommon for Villager's to be playing there in the hot summer evening nights.

If Stonecrest does indeed provide storm water drainage for the Historic side, how do you suppose that happened? Did TV just dig a drain to your retention pond without Stonecrest's knowledge or approval?
I imagine a lot of money changed hands between the two developers for that access.
If this cart access is really that important to the Stonecrest residents,the Stonecrest developers need to be working with TV developers. To bring in a third party to resolve the issue is not going to do anything but cause animosity.

[njbchbum]

This is the exact point I was trying to make earlier. Why should Bison Valley residents and Oak Meadows residents have free use of that amenity which we pay for? And these residents are much more likely to use other TV amenities, such as pools and golf, since they have none unlike Stonecresters.

Probably because it is a benefit of being an employee or a student within the Villages rather than a resident with amenities? After all, is it not easier to accomodate parking an employee golf carts rather than a car in a space that the general public would nee?

[bfdretired]

the villages could annex stonecrest.....charge the same fees....give access to all

[perrjojo]

the villages could annex stonecrest.....charge the same fees....give access to all

Best idea I have heard! B:bigbow:

[Xavier]

It happens to be actual Veterans that are asking for access to public medical facilities in a more convenient way like they had before for many years.

What's shameful about that. Are you a veteran? If you are, you should understand their need.

I would bet that there are far more veterans in The Villages who don't agree with that poppy-cock. Using this garbage to gain golf cart access is truly shameful. If it is truly a hardship, I'd be happy to transport any of the Veterans that can't get a Stonecrester to help them out. The need isn't really as it is portrayed. Oh, and yeah, I am a Veteran. Are you? Shame on you if you are.

Xavier

[perrjojo]

I would bet that there are far more veterans in The Villages who don't agree with that poppy-cock. Using this garbage to gain golf cart access is truly shameful. If it is truly a hardship, I'd be happy to transport any of the Veterans that can't get a Stonecrester to help them out. The need isn't really as it is portrayed. Oh, and yeah, I am a Veteran. Are you? Shame on you if you are.

Xavier
:bigbow: just because some protesting are Veterans, it does mean their Veteran status is not being exploited.

[Harry Gilbert]

A email I sent to Districtgov back in Dec 13:

I’ve been following the recent dust up on TOTV concerning the use of the Multi Model paths there. With the amount of opinions expressed that the paths were bought and now maintained through the use of amenity fees and the fact that the road system is County owned and maintained has garnered my curiosity. Here in NJ and from what I can find about most states, these types of trails are a gov’t function and not a homeowner owned property. So instead of trying to decide which of the opinions have merit I’ll come right out and ask. Are these paths privately owned and maintained by The Villages VCDD or are they part of the County transportation system?

Thank you for your time

And the answer


Good Evening,
The paths ARE owned by the Community Development Districts (which are government entities). They are maintained through the assessments (taxes) each of the Districts levy on residents annually. The “on road” paths are the responsibility of the government entity that owns the road.
Hopefully this helps.
Let me know if you have any further questions.
Have a great week and happy holidays!

I am not aware of any cities/towns that have walking/bike paths are unwilling to allow accsses to all. Thats not saying that the borders can not be controlled but that the paths are there for the enjoyment of all.

But the thing that really has me confused is that the executive courses are amenity owned but you have to pay a fee to use what you are already paying for?

[DonH57]

the villages could annex stonecrest.....charge the same fees....give access to all

That sounds like an idea. How are their golf course, pools, and recreation center? Do they have free hot popcorn? Hey. Just trying to lighten things up.:popcorn:

[john2]

How lame of Stonecrest to try using vets to gain access to our cart path!!!!

[Steve9930]

If Stonecrest does indeed provide storm water drainage for the Historic side, how do you suppose that happened? Did TV just dig a drain to your retention pond without Stonecrest's knowledge or approval?
I imagine a lot of money changed hands between the two developers for that access.
If this cart access is really that important to the Stonecrest residents,the Stonecrest developers need to be working with TV developers. To bring in a third party to resolve the issue is not going to do anything but cause animosity.

Actually no money changed hands. It was a neighborly gesture. Stonecrest is responsible for the maintenance and repair of the storm water pond in question. The only negative animosity is coming from the Village residents.

[Steve9930]

Stonecresters would like to access TV in a regular golf cart. This issue when you look at it objectively is about $$$$$$$.

If you live in Stonecrest you can already access TV with a Street Legal Golf Cart. However, they cost more and insurance is $50 - $60 a month. Regular golf cart insurance currently is less than $10 a month. Go figure. Still a Street Legal is a lot cheaper than what Villagers pay -----if you are going to dance, somebody has to pay the fiddler!

Using Veteran's is nothing but a smokescreen. And a shame. Bizarre doesn't even do this justice.

Neighbor vs. Neighbor doesn't usually have a good outcome no matter the issue.

The cost for street legal golf cart insurance is $140 per year not $50-$60 per month. Also to drive a street legal golf cart you must have a valid drivers license. To make my current cart street legal it would cost me $1500. The additional insurance per year from what I pay now is $70 more per year. The distance form my home to Spanish Springs is about 5 miles. I get 25 miles per gallon. That is 2.5 visits round trip to Spanish Springs via auto or say $4 in fuel. Just using the $70 for additional insurance 4 into 70 is 17.5 time 2.5 = 43 round trips to Spanish Springs. I don't go to the restaurants there that many times in a year. Why would I ever want a street legal Golf Cart. Does not make any sense. Also the cost and quality of the food in the Village restaurants is going down hill and over priced.

[asianthree]

so if stonecrest opened up all of their courses and pools and rec centers to the villagers would we be charged a fee for the use or would it be a grand gester of good neighbor policy. Since i am coming from fernandina its kind of a long way by golf cart so coming up by car would be my way to come for a visit, would someone let me borrow their cart when i get there, neighbor to neighbor, and i served my county in nam, and still drive my car to the VA cause its too long of a drive by cart

[Steve9930]

To late Steve, IMHO I think you're already upset. Also, do you live in Stonecrest?

I've been here since 2004. You know everything was peaceful in the Kingdoms until the developer put up the wall. The gate in question was never a key access gate. It originally had an arm and opened automatically when you approached. Both sides were that way. The arm seemed to get broken a lot. Then the arm was not replaced and then later the whole mechanism was removed. It was that way for about 2 years. Then the Fruitland Park thing came up. Fruitland Park wanted access for its current residents since they already had a Golf Cart ordinance. That's when the wall went up just before the meeting in Fruitland Park. The Kingdom has never been the same.

I come here to make sure at least some truth is posted.

To answer your question, yes.

A lot of people forget that the only reason the Villages has access past the Medical facilities is because of Mr. Brown who allows everyone to cross his property. He may just cut that off some day. Every one is using his property and not paying for the use.

[Steve9930]

so if stonecrest opened up all of their courses and pools and rec centers to the villagers would we be charged a fee for the use or would it be a grand gester of good neighbor policy. Since i am coming from fernandina its kind of a long way by golf cart so coming up by car would be my way to come for a visit, would someone let me borrow their cart when i get there, neighbor to neighbor, and i served my county in nam, and still drive my car to the VA cause its too long of a drive by cart

Currently more Village residents use the Stonecrest Golf Course then the people in Stonecrest. Village residents have also been using the lighted Pickle Ball Courts in the hot summer evenings. There are some people in both communities that can play together well.

[asianthree]

Currently more Village residents use the Stonecrest Golf Course then the people in Stonecrest. Village residents have also been using the lighted Pickle Ball Courts in the hot summer evenings. There are some people in both communities that can play together well.

but how do they get in if you are turned away at the gate? when we first came to visit many years ago we were turned away from stonecrest because we did not have a agent with us. so how does one get in to use the pickleball courts...

[Steve9930]

but how do they get in if you are turned away at the gate? when we first came to visit many years ago we were turned away from stonecrest because we did not have a agent with us. so how does one get in to use the pickleball courts...

They play with friends and some I believe even play competitively with the people of Stonecrest. Anyone can come into Stonecrest who wishes to use the Golf Course and eat at the restaurants.

[Cajulian]

"There are doctors within easy reach and convenient for them that they had easy access to for over a decade".

don't you mean getting away with it for decade? What part of accessing private property do you not understand?

I want to public access to Stonecrest. Why can't I enter?? "Daa" PRIVATE Property end of discussion.

RC,

Let's see now. Villagers were using that same path as the Stonecresters for over a decade to get to Aldi's, Walmart, Lowes etc.

Why is it Ok for Villagers to use private property to get to all those stores outside of the Villages. Isn't that what Stonecresters are being accused of doing by Villagers. Yet so many Villagers are hypocritical and think they should have the right to use private property to get to stores out of the Villages.

It's a bit tough to take this topic seriously when there is a double standard.

[Steve9930]

RC,

Let's see now. Villagers were using that same path as the Stonecresters for over a decade to get to Aldi's, Walmart, Lowes etc.

Why is it Ok for Villagers to use private property to get to all those stores outside of the Villages. Isn't that what Stonecresters are being accused of doing by Villagers. Yet so many Villagers are hypocritical and think they should have the right to use private property to get to stores out of the Villages.

It's a bit tough to take this topic seriously when there is a double standard.

Ding, I think you hit the bell again. There is a community up in Georgia called Peach Tree. It is a Golf Cart accessible community second only to the villages. One difference is it is a real town with all the powers of a real town. They have border communities that are allowed access to the golf cart paths even though the Peach Tree residents pay for the maintenance of the facilities. What they do is issue a trail sticker. For Peach Tree residents it costs one amount for the sticker and for non-residents it cost another dollar amount. Problem solved.

[Topspinmo]

Currently more Village residents use the Stonecrest Golf Course then the people in Stonecrest. Village residents have also been using the lighted Pickle Ball Courts in the hot summer evenings. There are some people in both communities that can play together well.

I take it that they was invited to Stonecrest? otherwise how would they get through the Stonecrest Gate? SO, you really mean Friends were invited over and I sure it was two way street arrangement.

[Cajulian]

the villages could annex stonecrest.....charge the same fees....give access to all

Wow! Another very very WISE person. Now we are really starting to hear from people that actually have common sense!

This topic is getting fun again!

[Steve9930]

I take it that they was invited to Stonecrest? otherwise how would they get through the Stonecrest Gate? SO, you really mean Friends were invited over and I sure it was two way street arrangement.

They play at Stonecrest since I believe these are the only lighted pickleball courts in the area. Its mostly in the Summer months because they can play when its cooler. There is more then just friends using the courts from what I understand. Its not very hard to get through the Stonecrest Gate.

[Cajulian]

How lame of Stonecrest to try using vets to gain access to our cart path!!!!

Stonecrest is not using the Vets.

The Vets are doing this on their own, based on their own needs to restore the convenient access they had for over a decade to access Doctors and other Health care facilities.

[Cajulian]

I take it that they was invited to Stonecrest? otherwise how would they get through the Stonecrest Gate? SO, you really mean Friends were invited over and I sure it was two way street arrangement.

No. You don't have to be invited in!

If you come to the Stonecrest gate and say you are going to the Golf Club or to eat in the Restaurant, the guards at the gate will let you in.

Now, how friendly is that for Ya!!!

[VT2TV]

Google the Senators address or contact info.

By the way, I live in Santo Domingo. I just stand against silly comments that aren't based in anything factual.

Also, try going to the Golf Club to play golf and ask at the gate to get in or try to go to the Restaurant to eat. YOU may learn something that is actually factual for a change.

As to the Multi-modal paths, they indeed are crowded. But it isn't/wasn't the Stonecresters causing this issue. They generally only went over the bridge and parked in the lot immediately to the left of the bridge to visit the Square. Occasionally, they would go to the local shopping center. Rarely would they ever go to Lake Sumter on the paths.



I didn't say that it was the SC who were causing the problems. I am just saying that if they are allowed to use the MMP, then TV will have to let everyone who wants to use the MMP have access. And THAT WILL cause much more crowding. If it was just letting a 20 or 30 people through, I wouldn;t have a problem. But it becomes a domino effect, and would make the pathways essentially unusuable for the people who live here. And if you do live in TV shame on you for aggressively argueing for a situation that will VERY NEGATIVELY impact your neighbors.
This is my last comment on this thread, so don;t expect me to address any return comments

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

A email I sent to Districtgov back in Dec 13:

I’ve been following the recent dust up on TOTV concerning the use of the Multi Model paths there. With the amount of opinions expressed that the paths were bought and now maintained through the use of amenity fees and the fact that the road system is County owned and maintained has garnered my curiosity. Here in NJ and from what I can find about most states, these types of trails are a gov’t function and not a homeowner owned property. So instead of trying to decide which of the opinions have merit I’ll come right out and ask. Are these paths privately owned and maintained by The Villages VCDD or are they part of the County transportation system?

Thank you for your time

And the answer


Good Evening,
The paths ARE owned by the Community Development Districts (which are government entities). They are maintained through the assessments (taxes) each of the Districts levy on residents annually. The “on road” paths are the responsibility of the government entity that owns the road.
Hopefully this helps.
Let me know if you have any further questions.
Have a great week and happy holidays!

I am not aware of any cities/towns that have walking/bike paths are unwilling to allow accsses to all. Thats not saying that the borders can not be controlled but that the paths are there for the enjoyment of all.

But the thing that really has me confused is that the executive courses are amenity owned but you have to pay a fee to use what you are already paying for?

There are no fees to play the executive golf courses.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

RC,

Let's see now. Villagers were using that same path as the Stonecresters for over a decade to get to Aldi's, Walmart, Lowes etc.

Why is it Ok for Villagers to use private property to get to all those stores outside of the Villages. Isn't that what Stonecresters are being accused of doing by Villagers. Yet so many Villagers are hypocritical and think they should have the right to use private property to get to stores out of the Villages.

It's a bit tough to take this topic seriously when there is a double standard.

Because the people who own that public property ALLOW Villages residents to use it. I would guess because it is in their interest to do so. People who own private property have a right to say who and who may not use it and for what purposes.

[bkcunningham1]

There are no fee to play the executive golf courses.

If you play the executive courses in TV you must pay the executive trail fee. You either pay as you play or pay an annual or six months fee.

http://www.golfthevillages.com/executive-golf/images/trailfeeapp.pdf

[njbchbum]

snipped
As to the Multi-modal paths, they indeed are crowded. But it isn't/wasn't the Stonecresters causing this issue. They generally only went over the bridge and parked in the lot immediately to the left of the bridge to visit the Square. Occasionally, they would go to the local shopping center. Rarely would they ever go to Lake Sumter on the paths.

Since you admit to the multi-modal paths being crowded already, why would you think it is advisable to exacerbate that situation by allowing Stonecresters to come and use the paths that we pay for for free? That makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!

Your allegation as to the travel of Stonecresters is nonsensical and quite probably not true at all. Stonecresters have lots of friends scattered throughout all of the Villages and some Stonecresters play in long-established golf foursomes and other sports activities and some used to cut through the Villages to get to one of the dog parks! So you can stuff that limited travel rationale!

[kwtoman]

Would not the news announced today, about 27/441, make this a moot point?

[Harry Gilbert]

Maybe I just don't get it

Why all the fuss over walking/bike/cart trails that are owned by the local version of gov't and funded through tax dollars. All over the country there are trails, parks, boardwalks etc that are paid for by the locals and are open to all without all the bickering

[TVMayor]

Then I said to myself The Villages is on three sides of Spruce Creek, how do the veterans in Spruce Creek get to the doctor? Was I in the pool today with a Creeker?

[Steve9930]

There seems to be just 2 residents of Stonecrest , Steven and Cajulian, on here who have problems with not being able to use the MMpathways, so I can only assume they are the people stirring the pot. They are only answering select questions, never addressing the fact that as a gated community, they are equally as selfish as they accuse us of being. They want access to our MMpathways free, but we can't even get through their gates. I have never heard of anyone from TV using their pickleball courts, and certainly not free. The golf courses, I might believe, but they are not free either, so it is not like they are wide open and welcoming TV rsidents like they are trying to sound like.
I honestly don't know about the storm water situation, but I am sure whatever deal was done would have been mutually beneficial for both TV and SC, and I am sure TV would certainly had to pay their share, if not the entire fee. But it has no bearing on this subject in hand.
BY his own post, CAJULIAN, reports that the people of SC come to our squares by THE TRUCKLOADS. That admission there says that they have MORE THAN ENOUGH VEHICLES other than golf carts THEY CAN USE TO GET TO THEIR DOCTORS OFFICES, GROCERY STORES, AND ETC.
Then STEVE mentioned that he doesn't like the restaurants anymore. That is another place he won't need to drive his car to TV for anyhow.
This subject will never be resolved on TOTV. I have to admit that I do not want SC to use our MM pathways. But, it is not because I am a mean, selfish horrible person that we are being called on here. The truth of the matter is that right now our MMpathways are very crowded, and TV is not anywhere near buildout. When Fruitland Village is done there will be 2000 more houses, so that right there will add 2000-4000 more carts to the MMP (multimodal pathways). The houses they are currently working on down near Brownwood seem to be in the thousands. Now on top of that, add in the seasonal residents, and the MMP are pretty much bumper to bumper. I have counted 14-16 carts lined up trying to get off the MMP onto St Charles Rd. The absolute truth is that our MMP are too crowded for us, much less anyone not living in the Villages. Now, using common sense, if residents of SC were allowed to use our MMP, then Wildwood, and Fruitland Park, and everyother community around TV would want access. Our MMP would simply NOT support all that traffic, and you could have driven your carsdown to Leesburg before you could get halfway to TV.

I wonder if anyone has any address to the Senator, or Gary Lester we could write to and share our feelings

Nothing I read in this post is correct.

[Cajulian]

Because the people who own that public property ALLOW Villages residents to use it. I would guess because it is in their interest to do so. People who own private property have a right to say who and who may not use it and for what purposes.

Bogie, you are right about private ownership of the path from the Villages gate to the stores. Some of it is owned by a Duke Energy, some is owned by Walmart, etc.

However, there is one private owner (Mr. Brown) who owns the most important piece of land and he allowed both the Stonecrest and Villagers to travel over his land to the benefit of both groups. He did this over a decade ago and it has worked well for all. He got no personal benefit from this gracious gesture. He was just a good neighbor to all. Now that a Gate has gone up (there was one there originally, but it opened for all) only one group benefits over this private property. And that is the hypocritical point that I have made. Villagers think, FOR THEM, it is ok to use others Private Property, but no one should use theirs'

Sounds pretty one-sided. Mr. Brown could, if he wanted stop all traffic going across his land and then nobody benefits.

This Topic is just a silly exercise in propaganda. It really is time to end it.

[Moderator]

Please stay on topic and avoid personal barbs or the thread will be closed.

[tommy steam]

Never said the people from Stonecrest used our pools or golf courses. They might, but I don't know. The things like the stores, health care facilities, squares are certainly available to everyone. No one is preventing anyone from using them. BUT, the multimodal pathways are PRIVATE PROPERTY of The Villages, and paid for, at least in part by our ammenties. The Villages do not receive funding for the multimodal pathways because, again---they are PRIVATE PROPERTY. The people outside the Villages have other ways of getting to the PUBLIC places. NO ONE is stopping that. If TV let Stonecrest use the MM pathways, then the people everywhere would want to use them, and then the people who are paying for the priviledge of using them would be bumper to bumper on the pathways. If the people from anywhere feel so strongly about using them, then go the legal route, and buy a home in TV. And by the way......if the people from Stonecrest feel so strongly about everyone being able to use everything, everywhere----why is there a gate at Stonecrest keeping people out???????? You never know, people might want to come to Stonecrest and support the shops or whatever there. Seems like a double standard to me.
Well said!

[TV Admirer]

I'm still a 'wannabe' with no dog in the fight. However, I tend to agree with those that indicate the MM trails are paid for by TV residents and folks from other communities should not expect access.

It seems to me that the folks who live in Stonecrest have made a choice. I'm sure it's lovely and has many advantages. The homes are less expensive (I recently saw a stucco home - 3B, 3b with pool for $199,900!) and it is certainly less crowded. They have their own amenities and pay accordingly.

However, I believe they already benefit immensely from their proximity to TV. Imagine an episode of Twilight Zone where they wake up one morning and TV has completely disappeared and has been replaced with farm land and grazing cattle! All of the restaurants, shops and entertainment is gone. Most of the businesses on the edge of TV would have to close their doors. Where would they find a VA hospital then? How attractive would their community be to other retirees if TV didn't exist?

They're not being denied access!!!! They just have to use their car. As others have said, if they don't have a car certainly a neighbor would be willing to drive them or Stonecrest could set up a shuttle service.

[Xavier]

I'm still a 'wannabe' with no dog in the fight. However, I tend to agree with those that indicate the MM trails are paid for by TV residents and folks from other communities should not expect access.

It seems to me that the folks who live in Stonecrest have made a choice. I'm sure it's lovely and has many advantages. The homes are less expensive (I recently saw a stucco home - 3B, 3b with pool for $199,900!) and it is certainly less crowded. They have their own amenities and pay accordingly.

However, I believe they already benefit immensely from their proximity to TV. Imagine an episode of Twilight Zone where they wake up one morning and TV has completely disappeared and has been replaced with farm land and grazing cattle! All of the restaurants, shops and entertainment is gone. Most of the businesses on the edge of TV would have to close their doors. Where would they find a VA hospital then? How attractive would their community be to other retirees if TV didn't exist?

They're not being denied access!!!! They just have to use their car. As others have said, if they don't have a car certainly a neighbor would be willing to drive them or Stonecrest could set up a shuttle service.


Nicely stated. Thank you and welcome to TOTV, and hopefully soon, we look forward to welcoming you to The Villages.

Xavier

[mickey100]

Bogie, you are right about private ownership of the path from the Villages gate to the stores. Some of it is owned by a Duke Energy, some is owned by Walmart, etc.

However, there is one private owner (Mr. Brown) who owns the most important piece of land and he allowed both the Stonecrest and Villagers to travel over his land to the benefit of both groups. He did this over a decade ago and it has worked well for all. He got no personal benefit from this gracious gesture. He was just a good neighbor to all. Now that a Gate has gone up (there was one there originally, but it opened for all) only one group benefits over this private property. And that is the hypocritical point that Zi have made. Villagers think FOR THEM it is ok to use others Private Property, but no one should use theirs'

Sounds pretty one-sided. Mr. Broken could, if he wanted stop all traffic goin across his land and then nobody benefits.



Well said.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

If you play the executive courses in TV you must pay the executive trail fee. You either pay as you play or pay an annual or six months fee.

http://www.golfthevillages.com/executive-golf/images/trailfeeapp.pdf

Not quite correct.

You only have to pay a trail fee if you use your golf cart. Walkers play for "free"

Don

[njbchbum]

Maybe I just don't get it

Why all the fuss over walking/bike/cart trails that are owned by the local version of gov't and funded through tax dollars. All over the country there are trails, parks, boardwalks etc that are paid for by the locals and are open to all without all the bickering

According to you prior post [the Dec, 2013 response from district govt]: maybe because the CDD is the "govt entity" of the Villages only. And the "tax dollar" to which you refer is an "assessment (tax) each of the Districts levy on residents annually."

No resident beyond the boundaries of the Villages pays anything to support the MMP.

[Erijo]

Can, do you also live in Stonecrest?

[Erijo]

Never mind Caj, I found my answer. You live in Stonecrest.
I am so new here and don't quite know my way around TV well enough.
This situation sounds like the saying, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". In this case, the "woman scorned" is Steve and Caj. IMHO I think they are angry that golf cart access is denied to them &/or Stonecresters.
I think NJbchbum explained it nicely. No one who lives outside the boundaries of TV pays anything to support the MMP. END OF STORY

[Carl in Tampa]

Ding, I think you hit the bell again. There is a community up in Georgia called Peach Tree. It is a Golf Cart accessible community second only to the villages. One difference is it is a real town with all the powers of a real town. They have border communities that are allowed access to the golf cart paths even though the Peach Tree residents pay for the maintenance of the facilities. What they do is issue a trail sticker. For Peach Tree residents it costs one amount for the sticker and for non-residents it cost another dollar amount. Problem solved.

Peachtree City, Georgia, (the correct name) sounds like a really nice place. A little too far North for my taste, but it looks like a nice town.

Interesting comparison with The Villages, however.

Peachtree City has 90 miles of golf cart paths for a population of under 35,000 people.

The Villages has around 100 miles of multi-modal paths for a population of around 100,000 people.

Perhaps that demonstrates one rationale for not wanting to add more folks to our paths.

This is particularly in light of the February 2003 Golf Digest Magazine article about the traffic congestion caused by Peachtree City's golf carts in an article entitled "Golf Cart Gridlock".

But, again, what is really relevant is that a person who wants The Villages' lifestyle should buy a home in The Villages.

It's really that simple.

:gc:

[Fourpar]

Carl, thanks for simplifying the situation. Been lotsa smoke on this thread but as happens many times, the truth is pretty...well, simple.:clap2:

[Erijo]

Dear Carl, I enjoy your take on situations. Your posts are spot-on! The bottom line is just as you said, if you want the lifestyle, buy into TV. Pure and simple. Thank you.

[Harry Gilbert]

According to you prior post [the Dec, 2013 response from district govt]: maybe because the CDD is the "govt entity" of the Villages only. And the "tax dollar" to which you refer is an "assessment (tax) each of the Districts levy on residents annually."

No resident beyond the boundaries of the Villages pays anything to support the MMP.

So does that mean I also cannot use the State owned beaches in Florida if I am not a Florida resident? Or the boardwalks at the jersey shore since I dont live in those towns and do not pay their taxes?

[graciegirl]

So does that mean I also cannot use the State owned beaches in Florida if I am not a Florida resident? Or the boardwalks at the jersey shore since I dont live in those towns and do not pay their taxes?


No. When you move here (or maybe before you move here) it is helpful to take the free class on how this place works. I know it sounds different, because it is different. It is amazing and I think it works better than other similar size municipalities by a long stretch. I would think most villagers would agree.


We do have public areas which are shared with non-villagers, but our rec centers and golf cart paths and pools and executive golf course are " members and guests only".


I am a huge fan of The Villages. I was never drawn to Florida, wouldn't have left our beautiful Ohio if this place wasn't very special. Most of Florida has a lovely home or three and then a place that is unkempt. Not so here. This is a CDD form of government. I have read back on your posts and see you have visited us here in The Villages, perhaps you should visit again for a little longer time, to get the feel of the place?

[slipcovers]

So does that mean I also cannot use the State owned beaches in Florida if I am not a Florida resident? Or the boardwalks at the jersey shore since I dont live in those towns and do not pay their taxes?

You can use the beaches in Florida, however, you must pay a parking or entrance fee. You can not park on any street on Cape Cod and you need a resident sticker for beach parking lots. These fees go toward maintaining the beaches, seawall, cleanup, etc.

[Irish Rover]

I don't have a dog in this fight since I only lease there every year (14) BUT...... I always see posts about people who retire there and sell their cars in favor of a golf cart. Maybe Stonecrest people do the same thing. Don't mess with the Vets!!!! AND loosen up, you're supposed to be living in Paradise.

[TheVillageChicken]

All this veterans rights, holding ponds, denial of access to the elderly is smoke screen. The Stonecrest advocates are trying to use a trumped up moral/fairness rationale. Motive aside, the developer is clearly viewing this as a legal issue and holds the high ground and all the horsepower. Calling in some minor league former polititian to battle the immense clout of the developer is actually laughable. The gate will stay. The debate will have a long life, but the gate will stay.

[njbchbum]

So does that mean I also cannot use the State owned beaches in Florida if I am not a Florida resident? Or the boardwalks at the jersey shore since I dont live in those towns and do not pay their taxes?

You got great answers from graciegirl and slipcovers, so I will just add this...

Once again - the taxes that are paid by local residents outside of the Villages DO NOT go toward supporting the MMPs within the Villages. Those who pay the assessment within each CDD DO pay for the MMP and are entitled to use them.

If the state of Florida and the owners of the NJ boardwalks determine to permit folks to use those facilities without charge - sobeit - you are free to use them. But you can bet that there will be rules and parameters for their use - nothing comes without an obligation. And the obligation atached to the use of MMPs in the Villages is the payment of an assessment for that usage.

[mickey100]

You can use the beaches in Florida, however, you must pay a parking or entrance fee. You can not park on any street on Cape Cod and you need a resident sticker for beach parking lots. These fees go toward maintaining the beaches, seawall, cleanup, etc.

If you are a senior, you can access the National Seashores or national parks for that matter, for free, with the Golden Age pass. The Cape Canaveral national seashore is a beautiful area. There are many areas where you can access local beaches in Florida without any fee, or maybe just paying a parking meter like the locals do.

[janmcn]

You can use the beaches in Florida, however, you must pay a parking or entrance fee. You can not park on any street on Cape Cod and you need a resident sticker for beach parking lots. These fees go toward maintaining the beaches, seawall, cleanup, etc.


There are no entrance fees to 99% of the beaches in Florida. Take a trip to Pinellas county and see beach entryways every block. Of course, if you want to drive, you will have to put money in the meter for parking the car not for using the beach. You are free to take the bus, bike, or walk and pay no money.

[DaleMN]

Incredible. :doh:

[Steve9930]

Peachtree City, Georgia, (the correct name) sounds like a really nice place. A little too far North for my taste, but it looks like a nice town.

Interesting comparison with The Villages, however.

Peachtree City has 90 miles of golf cart paths for a population of under 35,000 people.

The Villages has around 100 miles of multi-modal paths for a population of around 100,000 people.

Perhaps that demonstrates one rationale for not wanting to add more folks to our paths.

This is particularly in light of the February 2003 Golf Digest Magazine article about the traffic congestion caused by Peachtree City's golf carts in an article entitled "Golf Cart Gridlock".

But, again, what is really relevant is that a person who wants The Villages' lifestyle should buy a home in The Villages.

It's really that simple.

:gc:

Carl, Always good to hear you chirp in on the conversation. Thanks for correcting the Peach Tree vs Peachtree. Yes it looks interesting up there in Georgia. I want to go up there and take a look one of these days. There have been some good points brought out in this thread and then there is always the garbage.

I live in Stonecrest and to set the record straight as I'm pretty tired of people putting words in my mouth. I really don't care if I have Golf Cart access to the Villages. I've been in the area for over 10 years and if I used my fingers and toes to count the number of times I used the gate when it was open I'd still have some left to continue the count. Its far easier to use a car and if I wanted to drive over using a cart I'd get a street legal cart. This comment wasn't for you Carl it was for someone else that keeps trying to tell me how I feel about this whole mess.

The fact of the matter in this discussion is you do not need the gate back open to use the paths in the Villages. All it takes is a street legal vehicle. You can convert a Golf Cart to street legal for around $1500 if you do the work yourself. Insurance runs about $140 per year. Once you do that all the paths to the villages are open for your use. Those people that wanted access have already made such a conversion either by doing the work or buying a new cart. Personally I do not know why they keep bringing up this point with the Village Management as they will never reopen the gate because that means access up at Fruitland Park which is one of the reasons this all started in the first place. Its also far more cost effective to use your car then pay all that money to get a street legal cart.

The additional traffic you may see now is from Spruce Creek as the crossing over 441 is now open. This however in my opinion is going to continue this battle as they now have precedence for crossing 441. I'm sure a point that will be made with the state authorities which are the ultimate authority in granting any crossing because 441 is a state highway. They make the final decision in the end as to yes or no for a crossing. They do petition the local authorities for their comments which has a great deal of influence. A fact I learned when I was helping to get the crossing up at Spruce Creek several years ago. Got frustrated with Tallahassee and gave up . Although it would be nice to be able to cross over at the Hospital via cart. There is a cross walk there I believe and a buss that is supposed to transfer people across on a regular basis. So there is a way to get across to the facilities if you have a doctor there. For the life of me I do not see why you would want to run a very slow vehicle all the way through the villages to the VA Facility. What a long uncomfortable ride. If I could not drive I'd call a cab. I would have to agree with the folks that see more here then what was said.

To those that throw the stones about using private property remember you do that every time you go to Wal-Mart, Aldi's, Lowes, or Cracker Barrel. You use Mr. Browns property to do so on 441. So you are just as guilty as those you accuse. Enough said there.

So I don't know why everyone is making such a fuss. One the gate is never going to be reopened, two the chance of the state allowing a Golf Cart crossing at the Hospital is maybe 50/50, and three if you want to ride around in the villages without living there buy a street legal golf cart or you can rent one at Spanish Springs for the day at a very reasonable price.

There is very little of a positive nature that ever comes up when some one starts one of these threads on Village Outside Access.

[slipcovers]

You can use the beaches in Florida, however, you must pay a parking or entrance fee. You can not park on any street on Cape Cod and you need a resident sticker for beach parking lots. These fees go toward maintaining the beaches, seawall, cleanup, etc.

If you are a senior, you can access the National Seashores or national parks for that matter, for free, with the Golden Age pass. The Cape Canaveral national seashore is a beautiful area. There are many areas where you can access local beaches in Florida without any fee, or maybe just paying a parking meter like the locals do.

Yes, You can use the beaches in Florida, just like I posted, BUT you must pay the parking meter, several dollars if you intend to stay all day, the available spaces are hard to find in Winter months. The locals have a resident sticker, more available spaces designated for them.

National parks are funded by the government. A fee is a fee, tolls, entrance or parking meters. Whatever. I live in a coast town with miles of beach, anyone can go and enjoy them, however, they cant park without a resident sticker.

[Erijo]

Where do street legal carts go? On the regular road or on the MMP? If it is on the road, why not just use your car? All of this "discussion" would be avoided.

[justjim]

Where do street legal carts go? On the regular road or on the MMP? If it is on the road, why not just use your car? All of this "discussion" would be avoided.

Street Legals are allowed on roads that are posted 35mph or less. Once in TV a street legal can access any trail. There are several TV residents that have street legal carts and, of course, others outside of TV too.

They only suppose to travel 25mph. Regular golf cart 20mph.

Street Legal Golf Carts became more popular when a tax break was offered as an incentive to purchase during the so called "stimulus program" of 2009. :)

[mickey100]

Yes, You can use the beaches in Florida, just like I posted, BUT you must pay the parking meter, several dollars if you intend to stay all day, the available spaces are hard to find in Winter months. The locals have a resident sticker, more available spaces designated for them.

National parks are funded by the government. A fee is a fee, tolls, entrance or parking meters. Whatever. I live in a coast town with miles of beach, anyone can go and enjoy them, however, they cant park without a resident sticker.


No disrespect, but just because you buy a resident sticker up where you live, doesn't mean that's the way its done in the majority of places in Florida. We got to the beach at least once a month down here, often during the winter high season, and we've never had to pay parking. Just saying.

[Steve9930]

Street Legals are allowed on roads that are posted 35mph or less. Once in TV a street legal can access any trail. There are several TV residents that have street legal carts and, of course, others outside of TV too.

They only suppose to travel 25mph. Regular golf cart 20mph.

Street Legal Golf Carts became more popular when a tax break was offered as an incentive to purchase during the so called "stimulus program" of 2009. :)

They may also cross roads where an intersecting road posted at 35 MPH or less crosses a road with a posted speed limit greater than 35 MPH. Some of the Parcars that are street legal versions have a switch you can turn on that reduces the top speed when you are on say one of the paths. There are a lot of street legal carts that travel faster then 25 MPH. They therefore can cross over to get to Home Depot, Sams, and Rolling Acres. It really is not that difficult to change a Golf Cart into a Street Legal.

[ricthemic]

Has anyone ever considered snowbird stonecrest owners/renters with their out of state IDs and Village friends/relatives that provide them with village guest passes which allows them access to to unlimited pickle ball, unlimited cheap executive golf, rec center activities etc with their golf carts. Another reason to have the gate and regulate the sale of gate cards