Basic Respect -- Is it really that hard?

[Guest]

I'm wondering how far this forum can go before it implodes. There is so much name calling, pettiness and flat out mean-spiritedness to make most people want to have nothing to do with the likes of many of you. Someone said in another thread (SamH?) that we might actually like each other if we met in person but because of comments made here, the possible friendship has been tainted. I know for me this is true. Quite honestly, there are a few here that I would leave a room if they entered. I couldn't trust them to not be as mean in person as they are here.

You think it is amusing to call those running for office names or degrading their names. If someone dares say that is wrong, then you attack them rather than give a valid reason for your words. Like it or not, one of these men or woman will be the president of this great country. I'm not convinced that I'm truly thrilled with any of our choices. Maybe if we could get the good parts of all three of them with a touch of those who have now stepped out of the race, we'd have a truly great president but that's not an option. We're stuck with humans.

Why is it so hard to discuss the policies, the stands on the issues, without getting down to a grade-school level? So you don't like Ms. Clinton's voice. So President Clinton is a womanizer. Check your history -- Washington, Jefferson, Adams (both of them), FDR, Eisenhower, Kennedy to name a few all had mistresses. Some were flat-out womanizers. We may not like their morals but it certainly didn't stop any of these former presidents from being very good at their job. So some of Mr. Obama's family is Muslim. That doesn't make him less of an American nor does it mean he would betray America for his religion (I remember these kind of arguments used against JFK for being Catholic). So Mr. McCain is not a young man. Doesn't mean he can't do the job.

What happened to showing basic respect to people? How about showing basic courtesy and respect not just to those you know and like or even the people that you've never met because the discussions are over the internet and happen to agree with you, but those who have a different political bent, whether they are disagreeing with your political views or even running for office.

I've learned quite a bit from some of my fellow TOTVers about the candidates and I appreciate the effort they have made to take the time to put down their views, what they have seen and heard, even the rumors (when stated as a rumor, not a fact). Much of it has gotten me searching the web for further information. Thank you for helping me to learn more and make a more informed decision.

[Guest]

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

[Guest]

Well said, Red.

[Guest]

Fear of being jumped on for having an opinion keeps a lot of would-be contributors from contributing.
Thanks Red I agree with your words...not just for politics, but all topics. Worst case should be agreeing to disagree with respect. This is America after all. It is our right.

[Guest]

Well said, RedWitch. I'm glad you spoke up. :agree:

[Guest]

These forums seem relatively tame to some of the stuff I have seen in the past on other forums especially Findlaw's many message boards.

Once had an extremely nasty usually anonymous person who baited me with hundreds of messages the Summer of 2002 on Findlaw's boards. He also continued with this for almost 4 years and I even went down in late September 2002 to the Pinellas County (FL) Sheriff's headquarters to complain about this among other stuff and the Detective just looked at me like I was an upset kid and said that it was a lot easier for people to be nasty with one another if they are not face-to-face. I had to put up with this person on Findlaw's message boards up through February of 2006.

I did not even figure out who this anonymous poster was until late November of 2004 when he bragged about what he had been doing with me using his regular handle on Findlaw's message boards.

Best advice others gave me about this vicious poster was that I should just ignore him.

I have not seen anyone I would call really nasty on TOTV or if they have been particularly cruel the other TOTVers put that person in the penalty box so to speak.

[Guest]

Red:
:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

I cringe when things get "testy" in TOTV! I cringe when folks even begin a political discussion at some get-together, 'cuz I know it will eventually become nasty!

I remain antagonistic to all politicians today, because they seem to think that bashing the other guy is the only way to go! Wouldn't it be nice to have a calm, collected and pleasant discussion of issues?

Oh, well, I'm afraid I'm also pessimistice that that'll happen! ::)

SWR

[Guest]

Red:
:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

I cringe when things get "testy" in TOTV! I cringe when folks even begin a political discussion at some get-together, 'cuz I know it will eventually become nasty!

I remain antagonistic to all politicians today, because they seem to think that bashing the other guy is the only way to go! Wouldn't it be nice to have a calm, collected and pleasant discussion of issues?

Oh, well, I'm afraid I'm also pessimistice that that'll happen! ::)

SWR


Think how nasty the comments made about Abraham Lincoln must have been back before April 15, 1865? Not sure if politics in the US has ever been all that civil.

[Guest]

But do we really need to get down to the level of the politicians? Maybe, just maybe, if more people would try being civil and not name-calling others, especially politicians they don't happen to like or agree with, it might trickle up? Who knows, it can't hurt to try.

I do know that if I see a negative campaign, I will let that politician or party know I find those tactics objectionable. Amazingly, sometimes I even get a response. Does it change the behavior? Not yet, but, again, if everyone would let them know via email, letters, phone calls, that their ad, comment, etc. is objectionable (especially if affiliated with that party), it might start making a difference. Ditto for letting columnists know that there are better ways to get their point across than just using slurs, innuendo, etc.

No matter what, I can see no reason for an individual to promulgate the use of objectionable "nicknames" and the like to show their displeasure for another person -- whether just an individual or a politician. Most of learned by 3rd grade that calling someone a name was not okay. What makes it okay in a political venue?

[Guest]

Thank you Red,

You said things well.

At the end of January, I entered into a discussion here on the topic of healthcare. We are all affected by that issue, no matter what our politics, no matter if we have insurance or not. The discussion actually went along pretty well. Nobody got hateful at all, and it seemed like there was genuine concern and interest. Everyone was not on exactly the same page, but that's what makes a discussion. It did not last too long, but it really was OK.

But lately I have seen some "discussions" where I peek in and then just leave. It's not worth getting into.

I come to TOTV to learn and to have some fun. Overall, I really like the ambiance here. If I come upon those here who seem to be trying to make themselves feel better by making others feel worse, I move on. - just like I do in real life.

[Guest]

oshunluva, what did you say or mean?

[Guest]

:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: With Red!

I have found that, over the years, the people that can do nothing more that call someone names while trying to make a point, have no point at all. Either their views aren't formulated clearly or strong enough to stand on their own. I agree with you because I love political discussion, but my skin just crawls when someone tries to slant the discussion by adding disrespectful nicknames. It's transparent and distracting. I have voiced my opinion on this a couple of times. I loved JFK's quote "I am not a Catholic President, I am just a President that happens to be Catholic." I might be off on that quote a bit, but that's the gist of it. Thank you for starting this thread.

[Guest]

Chels, hope you don't mind, but I have to give you the correct quote: "I am not the Catholic candidate for President. I am the Democratic Party's candidate for President, who happens also to be a Catholic."

I do remember being in the 6th grade in Kentucky, in a county that was about 99.9% Republican. My father's family was one of the very Democrats there. So, when it was time to have a political debate in school, I was "it" for the Demos. I'll never forget my opponent's speech, "Er, um, vote for Nixon." Not even with an exclamation point after it. I went on about JFK's war record, his intelligence, the book he had written, the fact he was open and honest about his religious beliefs. I also mentioned Nixon's checkered political career, especially the McCarthyism. (Do remember this was the 6th grade and a lot of Kennedy's foibles didn't come out until well after his death. The press didn't think it relevant that he liked women a lot or that he had a bad back and used drugs, etc.) Well, Nixon won handily. JFK got 2 votes in my class -- one of whom was the little boy who had a crush on me. :a20:

Anyway, back on point. I just remember the quote because of that speech.

[Guest]

Osh, I had replied to your post but deleted it. I don't know if you or anyone else saw it. For those who did, I apologize. While it didn't quite reach the namecalling stage, it did come close and I'd like to think I'm a better person than that and I know all of you here deserve better than that from me.

[Guest]

WoW, After reading this thread I guess it just proves how your parents raised you or what do they say, as the twig is bent so shall it grow. It is refreshing to have someone point out the realities of the reality. Remember, People of integrity expect to be believed and when they are not they let time prove them right. GO RED !!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

This whole thread makes me really weary. One man "upmanship" seems to be at a premium here. Let's stop lecturing each other and just love our time in TV.

Love and peace to all.

lovehorse lovehorse lovehorse

[Guest]

Hi Red, yes that was the exact quote. I couldn't remember it exactly, just the gist of it. Thank you for putting it out there correctly. ;)

[Guest]

Red, thank you for saying in a nice way what needed to be said. I know I had given up on the political thread because of all the nastiness even though I'm very concerned about this next election. It sounds like I'm not the only one.

[Guest]

I removed a post from this thread. Enough said. Let's move on.

[Guest]

Thanks tony, Good move....

Enough is enough.

Anybody want a Prozac, I have a few!!!

Kathie

[Guest]

Hi Kath, that's the problem -- too many people in this country taking "chill pills" We have to face the issues before we wake up with Chinese as our first language because as of right now, they literally own us. Just my opinion. :-*

[Guest]

Hi Kath, that's the problem -- too many people in this country taking "chill pills" We have to face the issues before we wake up with Chinese as our first language because as of right now, they literally own us. Just my opinion. :-*


Not sure how many people vote based on these negative poltical campaigns? The Swift Boat attack sure woked on Senator John Kerry and I think that whatever William Jefferson Clinton said while he was campaigning for his wife probably backfired by taking votes away no matter what President Clinton said. If you could take William out of Hillary, Hillary might have had more of a chance.

The negative attacks on John McCain also do not seem to be doing that much good and these seem to be from fellow Republicans.

[Guest]

Tal, wholeheartedly agree about Bill. It seems like he's going out of his way to sabotage her campaign and doing a very good job of it. I mean this man is the consummate politician and makes statements that are so detrimental to Hillary. And then he does things like fall asleep at a major event. Guess he doesn't want to be the First Gentleman.

Personally, I wish none of the dirty campaigns ever worked. Tell me about your issues, what you believe, what you think you'll be able to do. Let the other person do the same. Don't tell me about the garbage that really has nothing to do with the campaign. Maybe if all voters and even non-voters got on their high horse and demanded that politicians stick to the facts, it would be a much better world. Who knows, we might even get a person who office that truly cares about America rather than special interest groups and the like.

[Guest]

Ladies and gentlemen, if I may chime in. I believe no matter what we do or not do personally, will not make a difference. Maybe to our phyche, but that's about it. The book of life has already been written and we are living out the script. The book of revelations has already stated that the middle east would be the major hot spot. It also asserts that China will be the only superpower and they will march through Iran and take over the middle east and ergo armageddon. Needless to say the revelations were written many, many, many eons ago. Well it is here. All we can do as people is try to live our lives the best we can and when the time comes, be ready for the rapture. I may be way off base, who knows, but it is my belief that these things will come to fruition. Until then, I just wish Barbara and I can experience a few years in that other paradise first, TV. Johnny

[Guest]

Red, I just now saw your post. You stated your opinion so clearly,

:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

[Guest]

;DGood Job, Red!!!!!!!

[Guest]

I respectfully disagree that nothing we can do will make a difference.
That sorta sums the problem for me if.....IF..... the silent majority truly believes they can not make a difference.
That is the frame of mind our political....REPRESENTATIVES....are counting on.
What we have allowed to happen is the rights of the many are now second to the rights of the few.....because they have something to gain.....and they do believe they can make a difference....and they get REPRESENTATIVES that promote the will of their constituency.
While we still out number them....they are gaining.....Oh my GOD what will the future hold when we do become the minority....and it is a certainty to happen.

Please help make a difference...write, call, email your REPRESENTATIVES at the State and Federal level....if you do nothing....yes you are contributing to a difference....JUST NOT THE ONE YOU WOULD HAVE CHOSEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stand and be counted....the only way.

BTK

[Guest]

BTK :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

Stand up and be counted.

[Guest]

Hey Billethkid, your assumption is that everyone is in the silent majority. I happen to be, but if you ask a liberal democrat they will tell you the right wing conspiracy is ruining our country. Who can correct the silent majority's position, judges. That's right, due to the liberal judges sitting on our courts coupled with the ACLU the silent majority is getting buried. Elect a president who will elect conservative judges and the country will start to turn around. The Supreme Court is starting to lean a little in the way of "this country has had enough fast lane, let's slow down a little and get back to prayer in the school and respect the flag of the United States. Liberal judges let child molesters walk free with little or no punishment. Murderers let loose only to murder again. Think about all the stories you heard on O'reily regarding liberal judges and their refusal to answer for their actions. All I can say is God Bless America!

[Guest]

I've heard the nothing we can do spiel since I was a kid. It's been proven wrong over and over. Maybe I'm naive, but I do believe that every individual who speaks up does make a difference.

Some changes take time. People thought slavery was wrong and that all men should be allowed to vote when America was first created. It took the voices of a few women to give us the right to vote. It took even fewer women to start prohibition. MADD was started by one woman who lost her son to a drunk driver. It became the driving force to make it unacceptable to drink and drive. And so on and on.

Frequently it takes one voice to be heard and then have others repeat the words heard. If enough voices take up the cry, those voices will ultimately be heard. It is up to us as individuals to choose which words we want to hear and which we want to repeat. Maybe it is time to for everyone to speak up -- not shout, not scream, but speak.

As I said, if I hear a politician making a slur, I let them know this is not the campaign I want. If enough others said stand on your issues, it might make a change. Right now, too many are willing to listen to the slurs and, worse yet, repeat them. That is why I started this thread. Here, maybe, it has made a difference. One can only hope. At least we know that the majority agree that the slurs are unnecessary and not wanted.

[Guest]

I've heard the nothing we can do spiel since I was a kid. It's been proven wrong over and over. Maybe I'm naive, but I do believe that every individual who speaks up does make a difference.

Some changes take time. People thought slavery was wrong and that all men should be allowed to vote when America was first created. It took the voices of a few women to give us the right to vote. It took even fewer women to start prohibition. MADD was started by one woman who lost her son to a drunk driver. It became the driving force to make it unacceptable to drink and drive. And so on and on.

Frequently it takes one voice to be heard and then have others repeat the words heard. If enough voices take up the cry, those voices will ultimately be heard. It is up to us as individuals to choose which words we want to hear and which we want to repeat. Maybe it is time to for everyone to speak up -- not shout, not scream, but speak.

As I said, if I hear a politician making a slur, I let them know this is not the campaign I want. If enough others said stand on your issues, it might make a change. Right now, too many are willing to listen to the slurs and, worse yet, repeat them. That is why I started this thread. Here, maybe, it has made a difference. One can only hope. At least we know that the majority agree that the slurs are unnecessary and not wanted.



Do think that one person if people listen to him or her can really make a difference. Some of our famous US writers-- Thoreau, Melville, Twain, Emerson, Hemingway, Capote, Lee, Mailer -- have made a huge difference with their words even though they often had a lot of difficulty getting their message out. Elie Wiesel comes to mind right away for me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elie_Wiesel

But, I certainly do not think Mr. Wiesel should be polite in the rhetoric he uses to explain his own life experiences.

On the other extreme, Ann Coulter has made a difference with her writings and I rarely agree with anything she says, but she should have the right to be as obnoxious, arrogant, mean-spirited, and just plain stupid IMHO in her remarks as she can be.

[Guest]

Tal: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

I agree with everything you said. And pull-eeeeeease don't get me started on Ann Coulter. She's is one of the most disgusting human beings that just take up space on our planet. I'm just happy that people are starting to boycott her books and many, many networks won't even have her on. :bigthumbsup:

[Guest]

When all gets said and done, it is the elected officials who by the way are in office to REPRESENT the needs of the people. They are...like the Congress...Senate at Federal and State levels who pas or not on judges and others charged with our democracy. I still maintain....like the NRA....AARP...most Corporate entities....are listened to because of their numbers.....of people and $$$$$$.....by the way if they were all added together they would still not come close to the silent majority in number.

I am proud to be not in the silent majority. I raise hell at the State, Federal and Presidential level as an individual....as an AARP member....as and NRA member and many corporate entities. Yes we do get results, but they are usually relative to that specific organizations agenda. What the lawmakers count on to do as they damn well please is .....THE SILENT MAJORITY!!!

By the way I have been preaching this for at least 50 years that I can remember.....to no avail. Everybody is too busy living the good life and can't be bothered. I wonder what event it is that will wake folks up? I fear it will be too late then.

In the mean time....stand up for what you believe regardless who the PC ers may be!!!!!!!!!

BTK

[Guest]

BTK: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: