Pre-Historic Area

[TVMayor]

The “Pre-Historic Area”

Before the “Historic Area” Harold Schwartz, began selling land tracts via mail order in The Villages area in the 1960s. He and his business partner Al Tarrson were put out of business by a 1968 Federal law that banned mail order sales of real estate.

I will call this the “Pre-Historic Area” because it preceded the manufactured home area that was started in the early 1970s.

Question, can you identify the “Pre-Historic Area” location in general terms?

[Bogie Shooter]

Orange Blossom Gardens.

[TVMayor]

Orange Blossom Gardens.

Wrong.

[Bogie Shooter]

Orange Blossom Gardens.

Wrong.

Orange Blossom Gardens was in those early ads.

THE VILLAGES – HAROLD SCHWARTZ & SON, H GARY MORSE | THE VILLAGES SOCIAL DIARY (http://www.thevillagessocialdiary.com/2014/03/14/harold-schwartz-millionaire-h-gary-morse-billionaire/)

[DougB]

The “Pre-Historic Area”

Before the “Historic Area” Harold Schwartz, began selling land tracts via mail order in The Villages area in the 1960s. He and his business partner Al Tarrson were put out of business by a 1968 Federal law that banned mail order sales of real estate.

I will call this the “Pre-Historic Area” because it preceded the manufactured home area that was started in the early 1970s.

Question, can you identify the “Pre-Historic Area” location in general terms?


Orange Blossom Gardens.

Wrong.


Is this a trivia contest, or are actually inquiring?

[TVMayor]

Orange Blossom Gardens was in those early ads.

THE VILLAGES – HAROLD SCHWARTZ & SON, H GARY MORSE | THE VILLAGES SOCIAL DIARY (http://www.thevillagessocialdiary.com/2014/03/14/harold-schwartz-millionaire-h-gary-morse-billionaire/)
The ad you refer to is for property and “Perma Mobile Home” This is not the mail order vacant property that was sold my mail.

[TVMayor]

Is this a trivia contest, or are actually inquiring?
It's a trivia contest. You could win a free trip to Spanish Springs.

[mrfixit]

.
Could you be speaking of the LAND my Uncle Joe purchased
via Mail-Order from Mr Schwartz. This was in Mew Mexico.

... discovered Valuable Minerals and Noble Metals on his 12 lots,
then he retired to Las Vegas...and played Poker to his hearts content.

[bkcunningham1]

The “Pre-Historic Area”

Before the “Historic Area” Harold Schwartz, began selling land tracts via mail order in The Villages area in the 1960s. He and his business partner Al Tarrson were put out of business by a 1968 Federal law that banned mail order sales of real estate.

I will call this the “Pre-Historic Area” because it preceded the manufactured home area that was started in the early 1970s.

Question, can you identify the “Pre-Historic Area” location in general terms?


I would imagine the area that you would call the prehistoric area is the Silver Lake area including Tarrson and Aloha where many of the singlewides are located. Silver Lake Recreation Center use to have a restaurant. That rec center is getting a major facelift. I was with someone last night who has been inside and said it is topnotch except he was hoping they would have done a better job refurbishing the pool tables. He said it was still first class and he was very happy.

After Silver Lake came Orange Blossom Gardens and then Country Club Hills.

[mrfixit]

The “Pre-Historic Area”


Question, can you identify the “Pre-Historic Area” location in general terms?

...and...if YOU can name Harold's Radio Station...( across "The Border" )

Think Ultra High Powered long Range Radio broadcasts,That were not allowed IN the U.S.

I will give YOU an all expense paid trip $$$ to LSL in zipcode 32162.

[bkcunningham1]

XEB and XERB

[TVMayor]

Hint, it is in TV but not in the Historic Area.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The ad you refer to is for property and “Perma Mobile Home” This is not the mail order vacant property that was sold my mail.


I can't be sure, but I get the impression that the land is the same. He was selling lots until the law changed. Once that happened he came down here and began selling lots with the mobile homes on them.


From the link posted by Bogie Shooter:
Harold S Schwartz, a Michigan business man, began selling land tracts via mail order in the scrub land that would be known as Orange Blossom Gardens, (Later called The Villages) in the 1960s. Unfortunately, for Schwartz and his business partner Al Tarrson, a Federal law was passed in 1969 that banned the sale of real estate by mail order.


Do you know for sure that the original mail order lots were somewhere other than OBG. If that was the case, then where was that land and what happened to it?

[DougB]

...and...if you can name harold's radio station...( across "the border" )

think ultra high powered long range radio broadcasts,that were not allowed in the u.s.

I will give you an all expense paid trip $$$ to lsl in zipcode 32162.

xeg

[mrfixit]

The “Pre-Historic Area”


Question, can you identify the “Pre-Historic Area” location in general terms?

..Did LBCV recently sell this portion to The Villages ?

[TVMayor]

I can't be sure, but I get the impression that the land is the same. He was selling lots until the law changed. Once that happened he came down here and began selling lots with the mobile homes on them.


From the link posted by Bogie Shooter:


Do you know for sure that the original mail order lots were somewhere other than OBG. If that was the case, then where was that land and what happened to it?
Do I know for sure, as sure as I know a hobby horse has a wooden d***.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Also from the same linked article.
This does make it a bit confusing.



1969
Harry and Louise Miller were settled in the mobile park by Christmas as the first residents. They were the only residents until April 1970. It was reported that the Millers had to run off the cows wanting to graze in their yard. Harry was was often seen shagging golf balls in Vermont Avenue.
1970
Harold Schwartz purchased the Orange Blossom Garden manufactured home park in the early '70s. Stuck with considerable portions of Florida land, after the federal government banned the sale of land by mail order, Schwartz and Tarrson had no choice but to go forward and develop a mobil home park called orange Blossom Gardens in the northwest corner of Lake County. Both single wide and double wide homes were available from different manufacturers until a decision was made to feature only one manufacturer, Fleetline Homes. A model home was set up on Vermont Avenue alongside the Chapel of all Faiths church. A variety of homes with a wide range in both size and cost were offered.

It sounds like the land he was selling by mail may have surrounded and existing Mobile Home park called Orange Blossom Gardens. It also sounds like he bought the park and expanded it into his land.

[TVMayor]

..Did LBCV recently sell this portion to The Villages ?
Got me.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Orange Blossom Gardens was in those early ads.

THE VILLAGES – HAROLD SCHWARTZ & SON, H GARY MORSE | THE VILLAGES SOCIAL DIARY (http://www.thevillagessocialdiary.com/2014/03/14/harold-schwartz-millionaire-h-gary-morse-billionaire/)


Thanks for posting this. I find this kind of stuff fascinating.

I wonder what became of Harold's other two children by his second marriage. It says his son Richard lives in The Villages but has nothing to do with the corporation. It doesn't say anything about the other two.

[manaboutown]

What I have read reveals Harold was selling land by mail order in both Florida and New Mexico until such sales were banned by the federal government in the late 1960's. I remember mail order land sales in New Mexico. At least one developer a few years ago assembled some of the lots in an area called Rio Rancho and has built apartments there. It was quite a chore. The buyers and their heirs and devisees were located where possible. I do not know whether he was able to obtain lots where owners could not be found or did not want to sell but he assembled a site comprising numerous contiguous lots.

At least some of Harold's sales/transactions were no doubt recorded when the deeds passed in the county in which the lots were located although the sales may have been under some type of land installment contract where the buyer does not obtain the deed until the final payment is made. Then the buyer needs to record the deed for the sale to be of public record.

According to what I have read Harold and his partner acquired OBG in about 1970. That would be after they ceased selling lots by mail. Does anyone know if OBG was an existing mobile home park at time of their purchase or did they purchase the land and develop the park?

OBG could possibly have no relation to at least some of their land sales by mail.

Anyway, Harold could have been selling lots anywhere in Florida from what I have read, not necessarily in, near or abutting OBG.

[TVMayor]

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii199/The_Villages/Pre_zps85ff2112.jpg

[dirtbanker]

So that is why that land sits vacant all these years.

[NoMoSno]

So that is why that land sits vacant all these years.

Wonder why it is still vacant?
Nostalgia?
Future airport runway?
Future site of a real gun range?

[dirtbanker]

Wonder why it is still vacant?
Nostalgia?
Future airport runway?
Future site of a real gun range?

Might be a similar challenge to what manaboutown was describing.

At least one developer a few years ago assembled some of the lots in an area called Rio Rancho and has built apartments there. It was quite a chore. The buyers and their heirs and devisees were located where possible. I do not know whether he was able to obtain lots where owners could not be found or did not want to sell but he assembled a site comprising numerous contiguous lots.



Real gun range would be fun!

[TVMayor]

Wonder why it is still vacant?
Nostalgia?
Future airport runway?
Future site of a real gun range?

This property has 10 pages of deed restrictions, no septic tank, (it has no sewers) seller had first dibs on buying it back if owner wanted to sell it, each lot owner would have to build his own house and you have no roads. Not all lots were sold some were bought back as late as 2002 some were sold for back taxes. One was sold for less than $2000 for back taxes. Originally they sold for $10 down and $10/mo. I have not seen any documents to confirm that.

[delima2000]

Wow thanks for that info. That field is behind our house. I have some of the property owners names that own the plots behind my house,

[bkcunningham1]

This property has 10 pages of deed restrictions, no septic tank, (it has no sewers) seller had first dibs on buying it back if owner wanted to sell it, each lot owner would have to build his own house and you have no roads. Not all lots were sold some were bought back as late as 2002 some were sold for back taxes. One was sold for less than $2000 for back taxes. Originally they sold for $10 down and $10/mo. I have not seen any documents to confirm that.

Where can we read this information you have posted? I'm a natural skeptic. I would like to see it and verify it for myself.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

This property has 10 pages of deed restrictions, no septic tank, (it has no sewers) seller had first dibs on buying it back if owner wanted to sell it, each lot owner would have to build his own house and you have no roads. Not all lots were sold some were bought back as late as 2002 some were sold for back taxes. One was sold for less than $2000 for back taxes. Originally they sold for $10 down and $10/mo. I have not seen any documents to confirm that.

So you're saying that there are lots there that are owned by several different owners?

According to the article posted earlier Schwartz and Tarrson were selling lots in an area called Orange Blossom Gardens. As far as I know Orange Blossom Gardens sits to the northeast of 27/441.

[TVMayor]

Where can we read this information you have posted? I'm a natural skeptic. I would like to see it and verify it for myself.

I was going to post a link, I tested it before posting to see if it would work and it did not. I think the document is a pdf but I am reading it in Firefox bla, bla,bla.

Go to
Search (http://officialrecords.lakecountyclerk.org/acclaimweb/search)

Click on “Name” first row left side.

Do a search for
Orange Blossom Hills South


http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii199/The_Villages/Pre2_zps8eef25b0.jpg

[TVMayor]

So you're saying that there are lots there that are owned by several different owners?

According to the article posted earlier Schwartz and Tarrson were selling lots in an area called Orange Blossom Gardens. As far as I know Orange Blossom Gardens sits to the northeast of 27/441.
Yes they are owned by several different owners and yes Orange Blossom Gardens sits to the northeast of 27/441.
Perhaps post 21 illustrate the mail order property in question.

[Halibut]

Many of the deed restrictions from the 1978 document linked above look very familiar. :)

o. All Owners shall notify the Developer when leaving their property for more than a seven day period and shall simultaneously advise the Developer as to their tentative return date.

Does anyone still do that?

[chuckinca]

I was going to post a link, I tested it before posting to see if it would work and it did not. I think the document is a pdf but I am reading it in Firefox bla, bla,bla.

Go to
Search (http://officialrecords.lakecountyclerk.org/acclaimweb/search)

Click on “Name” first row left side.

Do a search for
Orange Blossom Hills South


http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii199/The_Villages/Pre2_zps8eef25b0.jpg


"Orange Blossom Hills" is the area in Marion County north of Hwy 42 and west of Hwy US 441/27. Across Hwy 42 from Mulberry Grove Plaza.

.

[TVMayor]

"Orange Blossom Hills" is the area in Marion County north of Hwy 42 and west of Hwy US 441/27. Across Hwy 42 from Mulberry Grove Plaza.

.

Now go look up the plot map for “Orange Blossom Hills SOUTH” and you will see it is the property shown in post 21.

Note the restrictions shown in post #26 are for “Orange Blossom Hills SOUTH”.

[bkcunningham1]

Thank you, TV Mayor. Now if you can only teach me how to take screen shots and post them.

[TVMayor]

Thank you, TV Mayor. Now if you can only teach me how to take screen shots and post them.

Start with a key on your keyboard marked “print screen”. Open “Paint” paste screen shot. The pasted picture is free to float, move it to crop top and left of screen shot. Now move the screen shot frame up and to the left using the slid bars at the bottom and to the right exposing a white area outside the screen shot and outside of a dotted line around the screen shot. Right click in the white area to freeze the screen shot. Your picture at this point includes the white blank areas at the bottom and to the left. With bottom slider full right, side slider full down look at the edge of the white on the bottom for a little square, which only appear after you click on the white and make the dotted lines disappear, click on the select tool on the tool bar then right click on square and drag it up to crop the bottom of the picture then do the same on the side. Save the picture as a JPG close paint and you can upload it.

[TVMayor]

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii199/The_Villages/Pre3_zps414fedf6.jpg

[TVMayor]

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii199/The_Villages/Pre4_zpse8e3b9e3.jpg

[delima2000]

This is what I got from lake county when I questioned them about a possible sinkhole forming behind my house. (FYI not a sinkhole) this is the plots behind my house. The villages own on parcel and the others are owned by other people which I have their names just in case a sinkhole happens.

[NoMoSno]

This property has 10 pages of deed restrictions, no septic tank, (it has no sewers) seller had first dibs on buying it back if owner wanted to sell it, each lot owner would have to build his own house and you have no roads. Not all lots were sold some were bought back as late as 2002 some were sold for back taxes. One was sold for less than $2000 for back taxes. Originally they sold for $10 down and $10/mo. I have not seen any documents to confirm that.

So basically, if you own one of these lots, you are paying taxes on it.
It is not buildable, has no sewer, no roads. If you want to sell it, you have to offer it back to the seller (now the current TV developer?)
Sounds like a bad deal to me.

[delima2000]

On the three lots behind me I have all of the info the taxes on the lot owned by the villages is$79.45. The other lots near me are taxes $119.14 and $99.29. It also states that the lot value is 5400.00 , 8100.00 and 6750.00. Those are only for the lots closest to me.

[TVMayor]

The property Alternate Key #1822203 owned by Villages of Lake-Sumter inc is several lots all of which are not connected and have no history of being sold have a just value of $43,740, tax $636.78.

The lots include

ORANGE BLOSSOM HILLS SOUTH UNIT 3 LOTS 18, 9, 20, 24, 25, |
26, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 45, 46, 47 BLK 26, |
LOTS 11-28 INCL BLK 27, LOTS 39-54 BLK 27, LOTS 21, 22, 23, |
30, 31, 32, 51, 52, 53, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67 BLK |
28, LOTS 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64 BLK 29,|
BEING IN SEC 18-18-24 PB 15 PG 37 |

[TVMayor]

So basically, if you own one of these lots, you are paying taxes on it.
It is not buildable, has no sewer, no roads. If you want to sell it, you have to offer it back to the seller (now the current TV developer?)
Sounds like a bad deal to me.

What we sell here is a life style. For a few thousand you could have a gate key and ID pass and free lawn mowing. That's a joke.

[justjim]

OP, interesting history and information. Perhaps the largest mail-order real estate lots in Florida was Lehigh Acres east of Fort Myers. In the 50's they had approximately 175,000 quarter acre lots for sale. Even today----it's something to see! You can google it for more interesting history and information.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Is there anything that would prevent someone from buying up this property, putting in sewers, water, electric and streets and selling lots?

[njbchbum]

So basically, if you own one of these lots, you are paying taxes on it.
It is not buildable, has no sewer, no roads. If you want to sell it, you have to offer it back to the seller (now the current TV developer?)
Sounds like a bad deal to me.

Is there anything that would prevent someone from buying up this property, putting in sewers, water, electric and streets and selling lots?

Maybe the hilighted statement above and/or money/financing?

[Carl in Tampa]

OP, interesting history and information. Perhaps the largest mail-order real estate lots in Florida was Lehigh Acres east of Fort Myers. In the 50's they had approximately 175,000 quarter acre lots for sale. Even today----it's something to see! You can google it for more interesting history and information.

In the early 1970s a developer began selling unimproved lots in Flagler County (north of Daytona Beach) targeting government workers in Washington, DC, with a very aggressive sales campaign that included free dinner in a nice restaurant before the sales presentation.

At the time they were just beginning to put in infrastructure, such as roads, sewers and electric power. A major attraction was that many of the homes were located on a waterway leading to a marina and on out to the Atlantic Ocean.

Like many of my associates, I purchased one of these lots.

The developer fulfilled the promises regarding the infrastructure, the development thrived, many government workers retired there and property values went up for those who considered their purchase to be an investment rather than a retirement destination.

That development is Palm Coast, Florida.

When I retired, my wife and I decided that as lovely as the area was, we preferred to return to Tampa where we had gone to high school, and where most of our friends and family lived.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Maybe the hilighted statement above and/or money/financing?

Then what would prevent the developer from buying it all, installing infrastructure and subdividing it into house lots.

[TVMayor]

Then what would prevent the developer from buying it all, installing infrastructure and subdividing it into house lots.
The developer owned it all at one time and he subdivided it then and it still is subdivided into house lots.

[CFrance]

Who or what is LBCV?

[njbchbum]

Then what would prevent the developer from buying it all, installing infrastructure and subdividing it into house lots.

Same guess, Doc - money, financing and I'll throw in timing.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The developer owned it all at one time and he subdivided it then and it still is subdivided into house lots.

So all that remains is to put in the infrastructure and turn it into a neighborhood.

Although I really like the idea of a little airport. How nice would it be to park over there and take a little shuttle to MCO.

[Bogie Shooter]

Many of the deed restrictions from the 1978 document linked above look very familiar. :)

o. All Owners shall notify the Developer when leaving their property for more than a seven day period and shall simultaneously advise the Developer as to their tentative return date.

Does anyone still do that?

Yes, the Developer has a box near his front door, just drop a note saying when you will leave and when you will return.:laugh:

[TVMayor]

I asked to 2 people in the TV real-estate office today what kind of structures would replace the ones being removed. Answer, something called a doughno.

[e-flyer]

So all that remains is to put in the infrastructure and turn it into a neighborhood.

….but first, they have to fill in the sink hole (in the dog exercise field) behind the air gun range, and remove the trees growing out of it….:a20:

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

….but first, they have to fill in the sink hole (in the dog exercise field) behind the air gun range, and remove the trees growing out of it….:a20:

Nah...just turn it into a retention pond and start a fly fishing club.

[manaboutown]

Nah...just turn it into a retention pond and start a fly fishing club.

or an alligator farm.

Might also be a good location for a lightning research center.