PDA

View Full Version : Give me your tired--------


Challenger
07-19-2014, 06:45 PM
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Has Lady Liberty's inscription been revoked ?

graciegirl
07-19-2014, 06:56 PM
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Has Lady Liberty's inscription been revoked ?

My ancestors had to have a sponsor. My grandfather was indentured. There is a legal way and an illegal way to become a citizen.

And our country is already in debt. There is only so much we can do financially. We can't take care of everybody. No matter if they long to be here and are good people. This isn't the way we used to do things. We are being overwhelmed with people just strolling in. That beautiful quote above was written before we had welfare. People who came here had to be able to take care of themselves immediately.

Rags123
07-19-2014, 07:08 PM
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Has Lady Liberty's inscription been revoked ?

This country is more open and more receptive than it has ever been in its history.

Do not get lost in the politics of the situation. We are a country of LAWS, not men, and to say in anyway that the thought behind that inscription has been "revoked" is simply a sign of lack of understanding. We have become lax, not less open and that is dangerous to those who lived and dreamed the words you quote.

If we have turned our back on the world, it is our lack of attention to it..the world. It is our lack of understanding that the need in the world is of a leader and we are that leader, or used to be. THAT is not meant to say fighting others battles, that is not always the answer, but the world is under siege (just watch the news or read the paper today) and we cannot afford to ignore the world: THAT would be a revoking of our promise to the world.

NottaVillager
07-19-2014, 07:23 PM
An honored guest comes in your front door. A thief sneaks in your back door.

Tennisnut
07-19-2014, 07:30 PM
From Wikipedia:

Refugees of the Syrian Civil War, widely referred as the Syrian refugees,[18] are Syrian nationals, who have fled Syria with the escalation of the Syrian Civil War.[19] To escape the violence, roughly two and a half million Syrian refugees have fled the country to neighboring Jordan,[20] Lebanon, Turkey,[21][22] Iraq and Iraqi Kurdistan,[23] while thousands also ended up in more distant countries of the Caucasus, the Persian Gulf and North Africa.

In August 2012, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) reported that the number of registered Syrian refugees had reached over 200,000, exceeding the UNHCR estimate of 185,000 for the entire year.[24] Also according to the United Nations, 6 million people inside Syrian needed help and about 4 million Syrians were internally displaced because of the Syrian Civil War.[24][25]

By early 2013, the UNHCR announced that the number of refugees had topped 1 million, and by March 2013 had risen to 1,204,707 people. A spokeswoman for UNHCR, Sybilla Wilkes, also reported that the rate of flight from Syria was increasing. "In March an average of 10,000 people crossing per day. In February it was 8,000. In January it was 5,000. The numbers keep going up and up."[26] In September 2013, the number of Syrian refugees topped 2 million. On December 2013, UN announced an aid appeal for US$6.5 billion in order to assist the Syrian population - some US$2.3 billion are destined for civilians inside Syria, while US$4.2 billion would go to Syrian refugees in neighbouring countries.[27] This was the all-time high humanitarian appeal in UN history.

I think Lady Liberty has emigrated to Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan!

Rags123
07-19-2014, 07:35 PM
Funny, well not funny, but ironic.

As I understand the current problem in my naive manner, we have a well intentioned law from 2008 that has created a loophole. Seems one of the infamous directives might change that law as with others, or both chambers in Congress could make a phone call and change that law to stop the unintended consequences of the 2008 law.

But, right now in our country, everything has to have a gain for "our side" thus inaction is making everything worse, much worse.

My suggestion does NOT take care of the big picture immigration problem but it might reduce the stress on the current influx into our land.

No, this country is still accepting those who want to come here, but I, as an American, want to insure that those who come, come in that "front door" and they will be welcomed, hugged and fostered in this land.

Everyone in this country knows mostly from practical and real life knowledge the importance of those immigrants. They are welcome and invited.

billethkid
07-19-2014, 07:51 PM
Funny, well not funny, but ironic.

As I understand the current problem in my naive manner, we have a well intentioned law from 2008 that has created a loophole. Seems one of the infamous directives might change that law as with others, or both chambers in Congress could make a phone call and change that law to stop the unintended consequences of the 2008 law.

But, right now in our country, everything has to have a gain for "our side" thus inaction is making everything worse, much worse.

My suggestion does NOT take care of the big picture immigration problem but it might reduce the stress on the current influx into our land.

No, this country is still accepting those who want to come here, but I, as an American, want to insure that those who come, come in that "front door" and they will be welcomed, hugged and fostered in this land.

Everyone in this country knows mostly from practical and real life knowledge the importance of those immigrants. They are welcome and invited.

Well stated.

What will we do when those from the North and from across the Atlantic and Pacific demand EQUAL treatment or allowance?

I am interested to see just how accomodating those who defend the current mindless support of an open border. Are you willing to start paying more of your retirement $$$ to take care of them. Too many tight now are very brave with their words because they have absolutely nothing invested and there is no immediate threat to their well being or way of life. But the generations behind us will pay dearly and their way of life will be severly affected. Just listen to the impact already at the schools and hospitals. Just watch and see as the rolls for food stamps and welfare double again.

Those who are for this out of control onslaught by illegal entrants are completely out of touch with the true reality. The enemies of the USA will stand by in amusement as this country implodes into a third world country.

We have resolved to being the paper tiger the Japanese feared they awakened with Pearl Harbor. The enemies of today have no fear of the tiger that has been declawed and teeth removed!!!!!!!

buggyone
07-19-2014, 07:58 PM
It seems as though my comment was not appreciated by at least one poster. I have taken it down.

As to a solution for what to be done on our border to the South - How to turn the influx back to Central America? It could be just to refuse them entry and turn them around with a brief amount of force? Would that look good or would it work? No.

A high wall from Texas to California with barbed wire on top? Would that look good or would it work? No.

Education funds and humanitarian funds to Central America so they would be somewhat better off? Might work.

Take in families and children under a certain age. Good idea.

MikeV
07-19-2014, 08:21 PM
Mr Buggyone,



Many try to place guilt on those of us who believe in the proper execution of law. It does not work on me for one.



I welcome all humanity, but within the law, not outside it based on political philosophy if that is the driver to NOT execute existing law, nor to address what is obviously the trigger for the current problem.



I feel guilty mostly for not being able to help those who are being required to care for those who came here under false pretenses, not matter how those pretenses were manufactured.



I feel guilty for the inaction of our government as a whole to address the situation and how it will affect us in the future.



I feel guilty for those all over the world being killed and maimed...in Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Israel. I feel guilty for those who go to bed each night with a threat hanging over their head.



I do not feel guilty for wanting my countries laws to be respected, followed and adhered to.



Mr Buggyone, your comment is extremely offensive to anyone who really cares about humanity, because if anyone cares about humanity, that would also include citizens of this country, that would include those suffering as a result of the run on our borders.



These folks were not attacked by us......



No, I feel not one single iota of guilt, but as you did on another thread Mr Buggyone, your attempt at laying guilt at everyones feet without addressing the problem is apparent.



The thread was not and should not be political. It is a concern about what our country stands for. Your response is the political response of the day and goes to solve nothing.



No, I stand tall, proud of my TOLERANCE and will not accept an attempt to use a tactic such as you have in your post.


Very We'll put. I totally agree with you.

zcaveman
07-19-2014, 08:21 PM
Mr Buggyone,

Many try to place guilt on those of us who believe in the proper execution of law. It does not work on me for one.

I welcome all humanity, but within the law, not outside it based on political philosophy if that is the driver to NOT execute existing law, nor to address what is obviously the trigger for the current problem.

I feel guilty mostly for not being able to help those who are being required to care for those who came here under false pretenses, not matter how those pretenses were manufactured.

I feel guilty for the inaction of our government as a whole to address the situation and how it will affect us in the future.

I feel guilty for those all over the world being killed and maimed...in Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Israel. I feel guilty for those who go to bed each night with a threat hanging over their head.

I do not feel guilty for wanting my countries laws to be respected, followed and adhered to.

Mr Buggyone, your comment is extremely offensive to anyone who really cares about humanity, because if anyone cares about humanity, that would also include citizens of this country, that would include those suffering as a result of the run on our borders.

These folks were not attacked by us......

No, I feel not one single iota of guilt, but as you did on another thread Mr Buggyone, your attempt at laying guilt at everyones feet without addressing the problem is apparent.

The thread was not and should not be political. It is a concern about what our country stands for. Your response is the political response of the day and goes to solve nothing.

No, I stand tall, proud of my TOLERANCE and will not accept an attempt to use a tactic such as you have in your post.

Just out of curiosity, where did you get this quote from?

Z

CFrance
07-19-2014, 08:35 PM
Just out of curiosity, where did you get this quote from?

Z
I sang it in high school. Are you an American citizen? If so, you should know where it comes from. If not, google will answer your question.

Rags123
07-19-2014, 08:39 PM
Just out of curiosity, where did you get this quote from?

Z


If you refer to the OP in post one...

""Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door


It was written by a Jewish poet and is inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty and has for many years welcomed immigrants to our shore !

zcaveman
07-19-2014, 09:04 PM
If you refer to the OP in post one...

""Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door


It was written by a Jewish poet and is inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty and has for many years welcomed immigrants to our shore !

I know that one. I was wondering about the long-winded one.

Z

obxgrampy
07-19-2014, 09:06 PM
The number of consumers in our country already exceeds the number of producers. We cannot continue on this path and have any hope of sustaining ourselves as a prosperous and viable nation. At some point, a line has to be drawn and the rules must be enforced.

zcaveman
07-19-2014, 09:08 PM
I sang it in high school. Are you an American citizen? If so, you should know where it comes from. If not, google will answer your question.

Nothing. All I get is a reference to TOTV and this thread.

Consider me lazy. What is it from?

And yes - I am an American citizen.

Z

redwitch
07-19-2014, 09:39 PM
America has never been wide open to everyone who wanted to come here -- at least not since the Civil War (when even states had immigration laws). As was said, you had to have a sponsor or the financial means to support yourself; you could not be carrying a communicable disease. There was and is a quota system for each nation/region as to how may immigrants are allowed to come to America. Political asylum is left for those who have something to offer America, rarely the common man.

Immigration laws banning certain people deemed undesirable (originally, Chinese railroad laborers) were implemented in the 1870s (causing the first run of illegal immigrants). Laws before then were actually more about deporting undesirables and obtaining American citizenship than any sort of limits as to who could come to the U.S.

In reality, Lady Liberty's poem was always just that -- a poem. It was never meant to be taken literally. The Statue of Liberty began being built in 1875 -- after our first laws prohibiting Chinese laborers. Rather made it a sad farce, didn't it?

Personally, I don't mind an open-door policy. I do mind forcing taxpayers to support those coming in. Come to America, find a job, pay taxes, make this your home (not just a way to make money with the plan to leave here as soon as you've earned enough money). Learn English (no ESL in schools or elsewhere). Become an American citizen. Love this country as much as we do. Those that come with those goals, whether arriving legally or illegally, are welcome in my mind.

Carl in Tampa
07-19-2014, 10:19 PM
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Has Lady Liberty's inscription been revoked ?

1. You quote a portion of a sonnet written by Emma Lazarus, a then-popular poet who contributed a hand-written copy of the poem to an auction as part of a fund raising campaign to get the funds to build the base of the statue. The government did not fund building the base upon which the statue, a gift from the people of France, was to be placed.

2. Friends of the poet later raised money for a bronze plaque to be installed inside the monument to commemorate her fund raising effort. The plaque included the sonnet. It was not, and is not official government policy.

3. This is not the only plaque on the statue. Among others, the cornerstone also bears a plaque placed by the Freemasons.

4. The "golden door" beside which Lady Liberty lifts her torch is the LEGAL FRONT DOOR, not an illegal back door.

.

Ecuadog
07-19-2014, 10:21 PM
Bingo, redwitch. Bingo.

folkh
07-19-2014, 10:28 PM
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Has Lady Liberty's inscription been revoked ?

I have no problem with what Lady Liberty stands for or her inscription. When my mother came here she had to learn ENGLISH and the forms you had to fill out were only in ENGLISH and ENGLISH was the only language. Are you following my drift?

Tennisnut
07-19-2014, 10:42 PM
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Wouldn't this be great! No wars. No IRA bombs! No Vietnam! No Korea! People crossing countries like states and living as one! Unfortunately this will not happen in our lifetime.

Carl in Tampa
07-19-2014, 11:31 PM
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Wouldn't this be great! No wars. No IRA bombs! No Vietnam! No Korea! People crossing countries like states and living as one! Unfortunately this will not happen in our lifetime.

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." Psalm 14:1

.

VT2TV
07-20-2014, 12:00 AM
My ancestors had to have a sponsor. My grandfather was indentured. There is a legal way and an illegal way to become a citizen.

And our country is already in debt. There is only so much we can do financially. We can't take care of everybody. No matter if they long to be here and are good people. This isn't the way we used to do things. We are being overwhelmed with people just strolling in. That beautiful quote above was written before we had welfare. People who came here had to be able to take care of themselves immediately.



Totally agree. From what I have been told by some workers in some area of immigration--even the workers who used to come into this country to work on farms and to help pick various fruits and vegetables have learned that it is much easier to apply for every kind of assistance. So all of a sudden, the people who needed help on their farms, etc, no longer have any help. So they want to bring in more farm workers. The new workers also get here and are told all about "free everything" without the hard work. Are you seeing a pattern??? These are not just my thoughts, but people from the immigration services. I personally have heard it from pregnant patients who came to this country on a birth vacation solely to have their babies become citizens, They are given instructions on where to apply and what to say to get on all available assistance. They were very open and even proud of what they were doing. I don't have any children, but I really do feel very, very sorry for all the innocent children in many of the countries, although I think they are finding out that not all of these "children" are even actually children-saw a newspaper article about a "child" up north who tried applying to a school. This child has grey hair, looks very much like an adult, but without documentation???? The children I rally feel sorry for though are your children, and your grandchildren. Who will help them? I don't care who you are, you can't deny that this country is already in deep financial trouble, and a lot of even middle aged adults today don't have the savings we were very fortunate to put aside. Of course, that's going to go too with cuts in Medicare, SS, and increases in foods, drugs, insurances, etc. That's all from me. I am sure many will disagree with me, but we are all entitled to our own opinions.

Deseylou
07-20-2014, 05:49 AM
I can't believe some people think lots ok to enter our country illegally ,if they plan to work.Do you cherry pick laws that you will abide by?
Would it be ok, if they took over your house, because they need a place to live and they intend to work
There is a right way to do things and no one who comes into this country illegally should be entitled to anything
We have to take care of our own legal citizens first
Debbie

Rags123
07-20-2014, 05:56 AM
It seems as though my comment was not appreciated by at least one poster. I have taken it down.

As to a solution for what to be done on our border to the South - How to turn the influx back to Central America? It could be just to refuse them entry and turn them around with a brief amount of force? Would that look good or would it work? No.

A high wall from Texas to California with barbed wire on top? Would that look good or would it work? No.

Education funds and humanitarian funds to Central America so they would be somewhat better off? Might work.

Take in families and children under a certain age. Good idea.

1. Change the law, as mentioned earlier....the law that was passed by with all good intentions that has had unintended consequences and is the opening that is causing the immediate problem. Either by edict, as we are known to do, or by a few phone calls forgetting what votes we get or lose in the process.

2. Announce to those countries loud and clear that everyone is welcome if they follow the law, and do it loudly.

That is the short term that is causing the problem.

This is a welcoming and tolerant and giving country, but once it becomes a matter of simply pushing and shoving with no respect shown for our country and our laws, there has to be action instead of words.


All of this was mentioned previously in this thread.

JBarracks
07-20-2014, 06:29 AM
I wish that more people would read the history of the US concerning immigration. The US only let in immigrants when it saw a need for them. Yes, we are country of immigrants, legal immigrants. I consider myself very lucky.

Challenger
07-20-2014, 06:46 AM
It appears to me that most of our posters still support immigration facilitated by a rational(enforced) policy.

What do we do about the unaccompanied children?

How painful it must be for their parents to send them for 100-1000s of miles to escape the brutality of their situations. Do they truly qualify as "refugees"

Are the actions of their parents truly motivated by love as suggested by Jeb Bush?

mtdjed
07-20-2014, 07:19 AM
Seems to me that very few are concerned about the country which is facilitating this invasion of illegals. That is Mexico which allows for the free passage from border to border. While we put sanctions on other countries for misdeeds, there is none that I am aware of on Mexico. There should be major issues worked on by our country to stop the flow and that means getting Mexico to take action.

billethkid
07-20-2014, 08:26 AM
Seems to me that very few are concerned about the country which is facilitating this invasion of illegals. That is Mexico which allows for the free passage from border to border. While we put sanctions on other countries for misdeeds, there is none that I am aware of on Mexico. There should be major issues worked on by our country to stop the flow and that means getting Mexico to take action.

For starters we could enforce the rules and laws on the books. These are deemed unacceptable to current politicians who have other objectives in mind.

We could easily just adopt the rules and laws that Mexico has in place for immigration into their country. The single biggest difference is they do in fact enforce the existing laws.

As long as this subject remains a political issue it will never be resolved.
As long as we the people continue to stand by and let the government do as they please without fear of retribution or loss of election the issue of immigration will never be resolved.

Until such time as a terrorist action leading to the deaths of American citizens is linked to the open border, the immigration issue will never be resolved.

And when legal Americans finally become the minority.....I guess that will be too late....eh?

Madelaine Amee
07-20-2014, 08:42 AM
For starters we could enforce the rules and laws on the books. These are deemed unacceptable to current politicians who have other objectives in mind.

We could easily just adopt the rules and laws that Mexico has in place for immigration into their country. The single biggest difference is they do in fact enforce the existing laws.

As long as this subject remains a political issue it will never be resolved.
As long as we the people continue to stand by and let the government do as they please without fear of retribution or loss of election the issue of immigration will never be resolved.

Until such time as a terrorist action leading to the deaths of American citizens is linked to the open border, the immigration issue will never be resolved.

And when legal Americans finally become the minority.....I guess that will be too late....eh?

My post is not meant to be political .............. however, until we have term limits on politicians and they can no longer make being an elected official their business for life, there will be no changes to anything!

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
07-20-2014, 08:48 AM
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Has Lady Liberty's inscription been revoked ?


I'm interested in your opinion. Since we are now taking in more people than ever do you think that it has been revoked?

I somehow sense that you posted this with the huge influx of people coming here illegally being prevented from entering, being turned away and apprehended when found in the country.

What is your position? Would you have no laws or regulations for people entering our country? Would you not regulate who is a citizen? How exactly would you handle immigration?

perrjojo
07-20-2014, 08:55 AM
History has a way of repeating itself.
Have any of you heard about the Orphan Train that operated from 1853 to 1929? The Northeast was inundated with immigrants in the large cities and there was not enough work. People were starving and giving up their children. Parents were dying and leaving orphans. The institutions were overwhelmed with all of these orphan children. Several organizations began the Orphan Train which relocated over 250,000.00 immigrant children throughout the US, mostly the Midwest. Many were fortunate enough to be adopted by loving families but more were basically slaves used for far work and housekeeping. We have been through this before in the US. The results were not pretty. My Great grandfather and his first wife lived on a farm in Kansas and had no children. They adopted two children from the orphan train. I hope they were treated well but I often wonder since no one in our family seems to know what happened to them. There names were John and Emily Davis (9 and 11 years old) and they were from Ireland.
Oh, I forgot to mention that there would be advance notice that the trains were coming to your city. The children would depart the train and stand on the platform for viewing and hoping someone would take them. At the time many likened this display to a slave market. It was a very humiliating experience but hopefully it made some lives better.

sunnyatlast
07-20-2014, 09:14 AM
It's the purposeful dumping of children, by Mexico, Guatemala etc. dumping their children out to be somebody else's problem.

Dumping dogs is a felony in the U.S. The dumping nations must be held to account.

billethkid
07-20-2014, 09:21 AM
It's the purposeful dumping of children, by Mexico, Guatemala etc. dumping their children out to be somebody else's problem.

Dumping dogs is a felony in the U.S. The dumping nations must be held to account.

The dumping nations' politicians will figure out a way to get aid money from the USA....somehow.
Or they will figure out how to sue the USA for not treating the kids as they think they should be.
Two stupid comments, I recognize.....but both 100% within the realm of possibility.

perrjojo
07-20-2014, 09:21 AM
It's the purposeful dumping of children, by Mexico, Guatemala etc. dumping their children out to be somebody else's problem.

Dumping dogs is a felony in the U.S. The dumping nations must be held to account.
What you have stated sounds harsh and cruel but unfortunately reality is harsh and cruel. It is not the fault of the children but of the home nations. These home Nations must be held accountable for this tragedy.

billethkid
07-20-2014, 09:25 AM
What you have stated sounds harsh and cruel but unfortunately reality is harsh and cruel. It is not the fault of the children but of the home nations. These home Nations must be held accountable for this tragedy.

Unfortunately we as a nation have allowed the deterioration of the meaning of being held accountable to the level of being totally meaningless no matter how serious or dastardly the deed(s).

Tennisnut
07-20-2014, 09:56 AM
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." Psalm 14:1

.

There is nothing here that says there is no God, only there is no heaven nor hell. Lots of people around the world have God or Gods by different names and, unfortunately, fought bravely in their name.

Nightengale212
07-20-2014, 10:46 AM
I think Lady Liberty has emigrated to Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan!


Gee, I wonder how many of these south of the border illegal immigrant minor's parents would send their children to Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan or any other country for that matter if their children were offered amnesty there ???

Interesting program noted below. Just too bad this type of funding is not available to our own legal disadvantaged children to help them escape from a life of neglect, abuse, and poverty that they are currently living in this country!!!

__________________________________________________ ________

A shocking new report from Breitbart.com says an ad is offering more than $6,000 a month to people willing to house illegal immigrant minors in Murrieta, Calif.

An ad placed in the Penny Saver Newspaper in Murrieta, California is seeking "loving, compassionate parents to provide a loving home" for illegal immigrant minors, according to a local reader of the publication.

Lisa Maloney Vinton, a Murrieta resident, provided Breitbart Texas with a purported copy of the advertisement, which was put up by the Crittenton Services and Foster Family Agency. It says, "Help heal the wounds ... for children in foster care programs including survivors of human trafficking and unaccompanied refugee minors."

Parents who offer up their homes could have a child placed in their home in "as short as 45 days" and be paid up to $6,054 per month, according to the advertisement.

Challenger
07-20-2014, 11:21 AM
I'm interested in your opinion. Since we are now taking in more people than ever do you think that it has been revoked?

I somehow sense that you posted this with the huge influx of people coming here illegally being prevented from entering, being turned away and apprehended when found in the country.

What is your position? Would you have no laws or regulations for people entering our country? Would you not regulate who is a citizen? How exactly would you handle immigration?

If only I had the wisdom of Solomon.!!

I believe that we need well though out immigration laws that are enforced while leaving room for merciful judgement. If I were living in a crime ridden hell hole with my children suffering from poverty and/or gang activity, I would try to enter America by any method short of violence. The US would have a right to enforce it's reasonable laws to stop me from entering.
We do have laws allowing for refugee status and I would support review of at least the juvinile cases and accept those who met the refugee criteria.

Overpopulation in the US, according to demographers does not present a problem whereas the reduced birth rate does.We will not have enough young workers to support medicare and ss in the coming decades. It does not seem that the "too many people" argument works.

Glib, pat answers will not help . Reasoned legislation, enforcement and a bit of tolerance and mercy will. JMveryHO.

No, I do not think that the thoughts in the Lazarus poem have been revoked- just tested.

TexaninVA
07-20-2014, 11:40 AM
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Has Lady Liberty's inscription been revoked ?

While this may be emotionally appealing and make some people "feel' better, the reality is an open borders policy will destroy the US. It's pretty easy to figure this out. There is a limit -- financially, culturally and politically.

My test would be, if one really feels strongly that anyone from anywhere should be able to come here (which means an infinite number) then start by having 5 or 6 illegal immigrants move into one's own home here in TV for 30 days. After that, we can discuss it further.

TexaninVA
07-20-2014, 11:45 AM
It seems as though my comment was not appreciated by at least one poster. I have taken it down.

As to a solution for what to be done on our border to the South - How to turn the influx back to Central America? It could be just to refuse them entry and turn them around with a brief amount of force? Would that look good or would it work? No.

A high wall from Texas to California with barbed wire on top? Would that look good or would it work? No.

Education funds and humanitarian funds to Central America so they would be somewhat better off? Might work.

Take in families and children under a certain age. Good idea.

Actually, a high wall from TX to CA with barbed wire and a military presence that used force, when needed, to stop illegal entry would work quite well and solve the problem. Israel had major success when they finally built a wall that everyone said would never work ... guess what, it did work.

perrjojo
07-20-2014, 11:59 AM
While this may be emotionally appealing and make some people "feel' better, the reality is an open borders policy will destroy the US. It's pretty easy to figure this out. There is a limit -- financially, culturally and politically.

My test would be, if one really feels strongly that anyone from anywhere should be able to come here (which means an infinite number) then start by having 5 or 6 illegal immigrants move into one's own home here in TV for 30 days. After that, we can discuss it further.

I agree that many think these children should be welcomed but I invite those people to take these children into their homes. It's easy to be judgemental when "it's not my problem". It will become our problem though because even if we do not invite them into our homes we will all be paying to house and feed them with our tax dollars. Honestly, who is going to shelter, feed and give love and emotional support and guidance to 90,000 needy children?

TexaninVA
07-20-2014, 12:38 PM
Seems to me that very few are concerned about the country which is facilitating this invasion of illegals. That is Mexico which allows for the free passage from border to border. While we put sanctions on other countries for misdeeds, there is none that I am aware of on Mexico. There should be major issues worked on by our country to stop the flow and that means getting Mexico to take action.

Your post is spot on ... it's amazing how no one in the USG has yet to make a strong diplomatic demand on Mexico to stop the transfer. We could do this if we had the will ... which we don't yet have and won't until it becomes even more of a mess.

Threaten economic sanctions, cancel aid to Mexico and, if that doesn't work, send the US military into Mexico and defend our border from the south side of the river. We are perceived as not being serious and no rational country in the world would be as dumb as we are about allowing unchecked immigration, and then giving away "free stuff." That's why they come here!

Once we are perceived as serious, and once people know consequences follow, the problem can be solved.

ps why do these illegals never sneak into the socialist paradises like Venezuela, Nicaragua or Bolivia??

billethkid
07-20-2014, 02:24 PM
Your post is spot on ... it's amazing how no one in the USG has yet to make a strong diplomatic demand on Mexico to stop the transfer. We could do this if we had the will ... which we don't yet have and won't until it becomes even more of a mess.

Threaten economic sanctions, cancel aid to Mexico and, if that doesn't work, send the US military into Mexico and defend our border from the south side of the river. We are perceived as not being serious and no rational country in the world would be as dumb as we are about allowing unchecked immigration, and then giving away "free stuff." That's why they come here!

Once we are perceived as serious, and once people know consequences follow, the problem can be solved.

ps why do these illegals never sneak into the socialist paradises like Venezuela, Nicaragua or Bolivia??

It is all part of the agenda to increase the poor population of the USA. They have to import many thousands because it is taking longer for some of us to get poor enough to depend on the free stuff.

Just look around at what it is you do not like about what is going on. Then realize it has not hit you or your family yet so you are not invested in the problem....hence it is not a big deal yet!
Secondly just do a statistical analysis on the impact of the future population growth of all the illegals. Get ready legal Americans you are on your way to being the minority.

We are nose down on a flight to a third world, socialist society......and we the people are helping by keeping silent.....for now!

Rags123
07-20-2014, 02:29 PM
It is all part of the agenda to increase the poor population of the USA. They have to import many thousands because it is taking longer for some of us to get poor enough to depend on the free stuff.

Just look around at what it is you do not like about what is going on. Then realize it has not hit you or your family yet so you are not invested in the problem....hence it is not a big deal yet!
Secondly just do a statistical analysis on the impact of the future population growth of all the illegals. Get ready legal Americans you are on your way to being the minority.

We are nose down on a flight to a third world, socialist society......and we the people are helping by keeping silent.....for now!


I really hope you are not literally correct, although without a doubt there is truth in what you post !

I have wondered aloud many times....why has the clamor and correspondence over the past THREE years to Washington DC been unanswered and totally non responsive ?

This is NOT a new problem at all, in anyway.

Again, I hope you are not correct, but there is a lot of evidence now that might support your case.

Tennisnut
07-20-2014, 02:55 PM
Your post is spot on ... it's amazing how no one in the USG has yet to make a strong diplomatic demand on Mexico to stop the transfer. We could do this if we had the will ... which we don't yet have and won't until it becomes even more of a mess.

Threaten economic sanctions, cancel aid to Mexico and, if that doesn't work, send the US military into Mexico and defend our border from the south side of the river. We are perceived as not being serious and no rational country in the world would be as dumb as we are about allowing unchecked immigration, and then giving away "free stuff." That's why they come here!

Once we are perceived as serious, and once people know consequences follow, the problem can be solved.

ps why do these illegals never sneak into the socialist paradises like Venezuela, Nicaragua or Bolivia??

Granada Nicaragua is a very nice city. Spent a few weeks there a couple years ago. Actually, a lot Americans are retiring there.

NIPAS K-9
07-20-2014, 03:04 PM
Just try to sneek into another country.. See where you wind up .. Wake up america.............

TexaninVA
07-20-2014, 04:01 PM
Granada Nicaragua is a very nice city. Spent a few weeks there a couple years ago. Actually, a lot Americans are retiring there.

Sounds like you have a soft spot in your heart for Nicaragua ... correct?

CFrance
07-20-2014, 04:02 PM
Just try to sneek into another country.. See where you wind up .. Wake up america.............
The kind of country that would shoot you or "make you disappear" or incarcerate you in dungeon-like conditions (think Iran) if you tried to sneak into their country is the kind of country you wouldn't want to live in period. You have to take some bad with the good here in the US. If they shot people trying to cross the border or threw them in jail forever, people would be up in arms, and rightly so.

The answer is... build something that will successfully defend the border. Spend the taxpayer's $ on something useful. If they can't get in, they'll stop trying.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

buggyone
07-20-2014, 04:29 PM
Sounds like you have a soft spot in your heart for Nicaragua ... correct?


Google "retirement in Nicaragua" and look at all the positive things that are said by publications including Wall Street Journal.

Personally, I am staying in The Villages but plenty of other retirees are making the move.

TexaninVA
07-20-2014, 04:37 PM
Google "retirement in Nicaragua" and look at all the positive things that are said by publications including Wall Street Journal.

Personally, I am staying in The Villages but plenty of other retirees are making the move.

Yes, I did that and am aware of it.

My opinion: if any American wants to retire to the socialist paradise of Nicaragua and bet their futures on the whims of Presidente Daniel Ortega, a hard core Sandinista / Leftie, and who abused his daughter sexually for years, be my guest.

There may also be some great real estate opportunities in Venezuela? Go for it.

Rags123
07-20-2014, 04:41 PM
The kind of country that would shoot you or "make you disappear" or incarcerate you in dungeon-like conditions (think Iran) if you tried to sneak into their country is the kind of country you wouldn't want to live in period. You have to take some bad with the good here in the US. If they shot people trying to cross the border or threw them in jail forever, people would be up in arms, and rightly so.

The answer is... build something that will successfully defend the border. Spend the taxpayer's $ on something useful. If they can't get in, they'll stop trying.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Not bad...been suggested many times and rejected. (Unfortunetly not listened to until close to elections)

How about we enforce existing laws while we build that fence ?

Tennisnut
07-20-2014, 05:52 PM
Sounds like you have a soft spot in your heart for Nicaragua ... correct?

Yes, as well as Guatemala, Honduras, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Costa Rica, Mexico, Argentina, Chili, Ecuador, Uruguay, Thailand, China, most of Europe, Canada, Turkey, Greece, Croatia, Slovenia, England, Fiji, Tahiti, and, yes, The Villages!

gomoho
07-20-2014, 06:07 PM
If only I had the wisdom of Solomon.!!

Overpopulation in the US, according to demographers does not present a problem whereas the reduced birth rate does.We will not have enough young workers to support medicare and ss in the coming decades. It does not seem that the "too many people" argument works.

Glib, pat answers will not help . Reasoned legislation, enforcement and a bit of tolerance and mercy will. JMveryHO.

No, I do not think that the thoughts in the Lazarus poem have been revoked- just tested.

Interesting point; however, these children don't speak English, many are sick. How do you propose we educate, house, clothe, feed, nurture these children. There are children in this country without many of these advantages, but we are going to give these advantages to those that our breaking our laws?

billethkid
07-20-2014, 06:20 PM
Interesting point; however, these children don't speak English, many are sick. How do you propose we educate, house, clothe, feed, nurture these children. There are children in this country without many of these advantages, but we are going to give these advantages to those that our breaking our laws?

I would like to hear from the supporters of the open border, send me your who ever and we will take them in and care for them crowd........why is the situation highlighted above OK?

How can we the people accept our government giving away billions to those who are being brought in illegally while our own needy/poor/in need Americans are not.

There is no outrageby we the people. It is what politicians ocunt on....no response to any adversity at home....plus they get re-elected to boot by the same :swear: people.

Too many with no skin in the game so what is done is OK as long as their life style is not affected......YET!

Challenger
07-20-2014, 06:43 PM
Interesting point; however, these children don't speak English, many are sick. How do you propose we educate, house, clothe, feed, nurture these children. There are children in this country without many of these advantages, but we are going to give these advantages to those that our breaking our laws?

I would apply a merciful standard of basic humanity to those who were worthy of refugee status-With preference to unacompanied children.

graciegirl
07-20-2014, 06:52 PM
I would apply a merciful standard of basic humanity to those who were worthy of refugee status-With preference to unacompanied children.


The reason that this is such an issue is that all of us feel saddened and worried by unaccompanied children. WHO would do this to a child? What horrible game is this?

Tennisnut
07-20-2014, 07:04 PM
The reason that this is such an issue is that all of us feel saddened and worried by unaccompanied children. WHO would do this to a child? What horrible game is this?

If you have been to Tegucigalpa, Honduras, you would understand.

Rags123
07-20-2014, 07:08 PM
I would apply a merciful standard of basic humanity to those who were worthy of refugee status-With preference to unacompanied children.

What you describe was the basis for the law signed by President Bush in 2008, and only applied to those countries who are now flooding our border. Thus, the merciful standard you advocate was done and was put in place in 2008. It required that we insure these kids were in fact not victims.

There was no rush to the border by those countries in 2008, 2009, 2010 or 2011.

Then in 2012 we began to grant amnesty and the floodgates opened. People in those country's pay attention. The promise of amnesty wrapped in that 2008 law started the influx.

You must look at this current situation through that prism to really understand.

CFrance
07-20-2014, 07:14 PM
Down through the centuries, there are many parents who sent their children off unaccompanied because they feared for their lives or wanted to secure freedom for them--from people who put children on ships to America, to people who were trying to save their children's lives during World War II, to Cuba, and times in between--and now.

I don't think it's who would do this so much as why do they have to. I'm not saying we have to take them in. But I understand the anguish that would lead a parent to do this.

Tennisnut
07-20-2014, 07:20 PM
What you describe was the basis for the law signed by President Bush in 2008, and only applied to those countries who are now flooding our border. Thus, the merciful standard you advocate was done and was put in place in 2008. It required that we insure these kids were in fact not victims.

There was no rush to the border by those countries in 2008, 2009, 2010 or 2011.

Then in 2012 we began to grant amnesty and the floodgates opened. People in those country's pay attention. The promise of amnesty wrapped in that 2008 law started the influx.

You must look at this current situation through that prism to really understand.

I think you mean proposed amnesty that is still being debated. Probably will not be resolved for another year or more. There was one large scale amnesty in 1986 that gave about 2.8 million illegal immigrants the opportunity to change their status through the Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA).

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
07-20-2014, 07:26 PM
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Wouldn't this be great! No wars. No IRA bombs! No Vietnam! No Korea! People crossing countries like states and living as one! Unfortunately this will not happen in our lifetime.

You won't find many bigger John Lennon fans than me, but the man was a naive idiot. he was a genius as far a making music went, but he was almost a nob-functional human being and was clueless when it came to politics.

I have to sing this song every so often and I'm almost embarrassed every time I have to do it. I don't know if I've ever read any thing so naive and short sighted.

Cathy H
07-20-2014, 07:29 PM
these children and young adults are running away from areas in central America that are ruled by drug gangs who live off the drugs that americans (including some villagers) buy in great quantities. those drug gang areas are intolerable. if America would stop the drug habit and also help the Latin American countries with some economic aid to create jobs, the tide could turn. Meanwhile these people are human beings and must be given food and safe shelter until their immigration status can be resolved according to legal procedures set up by Congress

Tennisnut
07-20-2014, 07:33 PM
You won't find many bigger John Lennon fans than me, but the man was a naive idiot. he was a genius as far a making music went, but he was almost a nob-functional human being and was clueless when it came to politics.

I have to sing this song every so often and I'm almost embarrassed every time I have to do it. I don't know if I've ever read any thing so naive and short sighted.

Like he said, he was a dreamer. Unfortunately, we have trouble getting along with people of similar race, religion and politics in this country let alone people of different backgrounds in other countries. Fortunately one can still dream and hope for change.

Rags123
07-20-2014, 07:50 PM
I think you mean proposed amnesty that is still being debated. Probably will not be resolved for another year or more. There was one large scale amnesty in 1986 that gave about 2.8 million illegal immigrants the opportunity to change their status through the Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA).

NO I MEAN AMNESTY GRANTED BY OUR PRESIDENT IN 2012 !

Not blanket amnesty, but amnesty for those of a young age.

From June 15, 2012

[B]"Today, Janet Napolitano, secretary of Homeland Security, announced immunity from deportation for illegal immigrants who were brought to the United States before they turned 16 and who are younger than 30 – among other criteria. They can apply for a two-year work permit that can be renewed

Lamar Smith: Obama's amnesty for illegal immigrants is against the law - CSMonitor.com (http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2012/0615/Lamar-Smith-Obama-s-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants-is-against-the-law)

There is much discussion on this in media archives. Many felt it was illegal and timed for the election. I don't know, BUT AMNESTY WAS GRANTED and that amnesty began the flood. That fact is undeniable.

I suppose there is no relationship, but no border rush in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and it really began in August of 2012.

I am not being political but if you are to discuss immigration rush at the border you should discuss it with facts. These people were not promised, but viewed the action as an clear cut message.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
07-20-2014, 08:06 PM
If only I had the wisdom of Solomon.!!

I believe that we need well though out immigration laws that are enforced while leaving room for merciful judgement. If I were living in a crime ridden hell hole with my children suffering from poverty and/or gang activity, I would try to enter America by any method short of violence. The US would have a right to enforce it's reasonable laws to stop me from entering.
We do have laws allowing for refugee status and I would support review of at least the juvinile cases and accept those who met the refugee criteria.

Overpopulation in the US, according to demographers does not present a problem whereas the reduced birth rate does.We will not have enough young workers to support medicare and ss in the coming decades. It does not seem that the "too many people" argument works.

Glib, pat answers will not help . Reasoned legislation, enforcement and a bit of tolerance and mercy will. JMveryHO.

No, I do not think that the thoughts in the Lazarus poem have been revoked- just tested.

Actually, I think that if you look at our immigration laws that are currently in place, you'll find that they are pretty much what you suggest. I think that the problem is that for various reasons, they are not being enforced.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
07-20-2014, 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by buggyone View Post
It seems as though my comment was not appreciated by at least one poster. I have taken it down.

As to a solution for what to be done on our border to the South - How to turn the influx back to Central America? It could be just to refuse them entry and turn them around with a brief amount of force? Would that look good or would it work? No.

A high wall from Texas to California with barbed wire on top? Would that look good or would it work? No.

Education funds and humanitarian funds to Central America so they would be somewhat better off? Might work.

Take in families and children under a certain age. Good idea.

You're answering your own questions, but i think that you have the answers wrong. Maybe these measures might not look good to some, but they'd look very good to others. And I personally believe that they would work.

No one thing or any system will be completely foolproof. Even with the measure that you point out in place some would still sneak in. But, these two simple measure would reduce the problem to a manageable level.

But then you suggest that we send money to corrupt governments as though you believe that that money would reach the the people who need it. Beside the fact that we are broke and in debt up to our ears, I can't imagine that sending money to any of these countries would help anything.

Take in children under a certain age? Yes, I could agree with that.

TexaninVA
07-20-2014, 08:15 PM
Like he said, he was a dreamer. Unfortunately, we have trouble getting along with people of similar race, religion and politics in this country let alone people of different backgrounds in other countries. Fortunately one can still dream and hope for change.

I agree with the point about Lennon's na�ve idealism but I disagree that we have that much difficulty getting along with people of various races and religions. Nothing is perfect but the US beats most other countries in that regard from what I've seen.

instead of dreaming for hope and change, I dream instead for an outbreak of contagious common sense ... which seems to be in very short supply right now.

TexaninVA
07-20-2014, 08:17 PM
NO I MEAN AMNESTY GRANTED BY OUR PRESIDENT IN 2012 !

Not blanket amnesty, but amnesty for those of a young age.

From June 15, 2012

[B]"Today, Janet Napolitano, secretary of Homeland Security, announced immunity from deportation for illegal immigrants who were brought to the United States before they turned 16 and who are younger than 30 � among other criteria. They can apply for a two-year work permit that can be renewed

Lamar Smith: Obama's amnesty for illegal immigrants is against the law - CSMonitor.com (http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2012/0615/Lamar-Smith-Obama-s-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants-is-against-the-law)

There is much discussion on this in media archives. Many felt it was illegal and timed for the election. I don't know, BUT AMNESTY WAS GRANTED and that amnesty began the flood. That fact is undeniable.

I suppose there is no relationship, but no border rush in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and it really began in August of 2012.

I am not being political but if you are to discuss immigration rush at the border you should discuss it with facts. These people were not promised, but viewed the action as an clear cut message.

Rags is correct in identifying the source of the current catastrophe on the border. It's pretty obvious actually.

njbchbum
07-20-2014, 08:17 PM
Cathy - yikes! Do you really think that this country does not send economic aid money to Central America?

Here's a little info re the money the US sends to Central America:
How much money does the U.S. give to Central America (general region)? (http://us-foreign-aid.findthebest.com/q/34/1590/How-much-money-does-the-U-S-give-to-Central-America-general-region)

And look at what happens to the money when it gets there:
Latin America and the Caribbean | U.S. Agency for International Development (http://www.usaid.gov/where-we-work/latin-american-and-caribbean)

And wait until you see how much more money they are going to ask for when they meet with the President this Friday:
Honduras wants 'mini-Marshall plan' for U.S. aid on migrants | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-usa-immigration-honduras-idUSKBN0FL2L620140717)

Now re your comment "if America would stop the drug habit and also help the Latin American countries with some economic aid to create jobs, the tide could turn." That was Rev Al's talking point all day long last Friday. Do you really think that the US is the only country where residents have a drug habit?

Cathy, if the families of these unaccompanied children could spend the thousands of dollars to the smugglers to bring the children across our border - why could they not spend it to improve their lives where they live? And if your referral to 'legal procedures set up by Congress' is a reference to the William Wilburforce legislation - remember the purpose of that act was to protect the children who are victims of human trafficking and not victims of poverty.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
07-20-2014, 08:19 PM
Like he said, he was a dreamer. Unfortunately, we have trouble getting along with people of similar race, religion and politics in this country let alone people of different backgrounds in other countries. Fortunately one can still dream and hope for change.

Or instead of sitting around dream and hoping, we can take actions to improve the world.

People in different parts of the world sometimes have trouble getting along with each other. Sometimes bad people get themselves into power positions in some countries. Does anyone actually believe that by eliminating borders and countries that these bad people would suddenly stop trying to take over? Who would there be to counteract evil in the world?

We have people who believe that it is their job to convince everyone else that they must believe in their idea of God. Do you think that there is any chance of that ever stopping?

Imagine no possessions? Yea, of course everyone would just get along and starve rather than claiming to own something. Anyone who wants can just come and live in your house because it's not your house.

Does anyone ever read these words and realize how absurd they are?

Like I said, take John away from music and he's basically a moron.

Tennisnut
07-21-2014, 10:20 AM
I agree with the point about Lennon's na�ve idealism but I disagree that we have that much difficulty getting along with people of various races and religions. Nothing is perfect but the US beats most other countries in that regard from what I've seen.

instead of dreaming for hope and change, I dream instead for an outbreak of contagious common sense ... which seems to be in very short supply right now.

I think we could use some improvement in the US as well. There are 58 hate groups in Florida according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Examples are the Aryan Nation and the New Black Panther Party. I wonder how those two would get along? I think a little higher goal setting and improvement would be appropriate for the US.

graciegirl
07-21-2014, 10:26 AM
I think we could use some improvement in the US as well. There are 58 hate groups in Florida according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Examples are the Aryan Nation and the New Black Panther Party. I wonder how those two would get along? I think a little higher goal setting and improvement would be appropriate for the US.


Could you explain your posts on this thread in one sentence? Somehow I am not understanding.

Patty55
07-21-2014, 10:34 AM
Really? There are 58 groups? Can we make it 59? I don't like loud, crude and common people who seem to be unable to mind their own business.

eweissenbach
07-21-2014, 01:08 PM
I wish I....no, I wish the people in power, had the answers. If they could honestly work together on a humane, common sense way to address this deplorable situation instead of using it as a political wedge we might finally get it (mostly) solved. Of course that goes for almost every issue confronting us today, and I see no end in sight.

Rags123
07-21-2014, 01:13 PM
I wish I....no, I wish the people in power, had the answers. If they could honestly work together on a humane, common sense way to address this deplorable situation instead of using it as a political wedge we might finally get it (mostly) solved. Of course that goes for almost every issue confronting us today, and I see no end in sight.

Good start...


1. Enforce EXISTING LAWS !!!

2. Rescind the amenisty of 2012

Hard to talk until that gets done, in my humble opinion

Editing to add only because it is very important....besides the two above...

3. Edit the misused law of 2008 which was passed for humanatarian reasons in some way to get rid of the built in incentive.

TheVillageChicken
07-21-2014, 01:19 PM
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Has Lady Liberty's inscription been revoked ?


Not to my knowledge, but it is a splendid idea.

eweissenbach
07-21-2014, 01:27 PM
Not to my knowledge, but it is a splendid idea.

I take it your ancestry is 100% native American.

TheVillageChicken
07-21-2014, 01:33 PM
I take it your ancestry is 100% native American.

Times change.

buggyone
07-21-2014, 02:09 PM
[QUOTE=TheVillageChicken;910994]Times change.[/

Depending on whose ox is being gored?

jbdlfan
07-21-2014, 02:23 PM
If some of you think we are doing the "compassionate" thing for these children, I highly encourage you Google search images of these children and see the deplorable conditions they are currently being housed. Truly a sad situation and we should be ashamed. These are children ranging in age from 5 to 17.

buggyone
07-21-2014, 02:39 PM
If some of you think we are doing the "compassionate" thing for these children, I highly encourage you Google search images of these children and see the deplorable conditions they are currently being housed. Truly a sad situation and we should be ashamed. These are children ranging in age from 5 to 17.

...and for how many years did they endure much worse conditions from where they came?

We should have them resettled as soon as possible.

jbdlfan
07-21-2014, 02:45 PM
...and for how many years did they endure much worse conditions from where they came?

Not sure how relevant that is when we are supposed to be the compassionate ones. We have thousands of children living in buildings and rooms made for hundreds. This is the best we can do? Katrina all over again.....just lacking the images on the news.....

buggyone
07-21-2014, 03:00 PM
Not sure how relevant that is when we are supposed to be the compassionate ones. We have thousands of children living in buildings and rooms made for hundreds. This is the best we can do? Katrina all over again.....just lacking the images on the news.....

The second part of my post did not make it to the quote. It is "we should get them resettled as quickly as possible."

As far as the images on the news, look at the " sources" for the pictures. Not too reliable.

janmcn
07-21-2014, 03:03 PM
Not sure how relevant that is when we are supposed to be the compassionate ones. We have thousands of children living in buildings and rooms made for hundreds. This is the best we can do? Katrina all over again.....just lacking the images on the news.....

Gov Rick Perry is sending a thousand of his armed National Guardsmen to the border today to confront the children. This should make for some interesting images on the news.

billethkid
07-21-2014, 03:05 PM
has the compassion taken care of those kids/youngsters born here or here legally in similar or worse conditions here in the USA?

How much of the free stuff being made available for the "illegals" is also available for those LEGALS in need here in the USA?

How many votes could be in that.....not enough obviously.

Rags123
07-21-2014, 03:08 PM
Gov Rick Perry is sending a thousand of his armed National Guardsmen to the border today to confront the children. This should make for some interesting images on the news.


This deployment requires WH approval, which I assume he will get as the President has already said he is 'open" to this.

Instead of "confront the children", I think it is to enforce United States Law, and to try and secure the border !

Just another way of saying it I guess

By the way..someone not worrying about how he looks but doing what is right would be refreshing !

Rags123
07-21-2014, 03:15 PM
I am not sure if the posts mentioning the children are another attempt at laying guilt on any American who believes in the LAW of the country and enforcement thereof, along with the security that is supposed to be provided at our border.

If it is, count me as one who does not feel guilty and I assure you I have compassion and tolerance in abundance.

I see nobody feeling any compassion for those who have their lives unsettled by this rush on our border.

EVERYONE prays for those children, hope they are not being taken advantage of, and wish them well. It will NOT get better as times goes on...only worse.

Rags123
07-21-2014, 03:43 PM
This deployment requires WH approval, which I assume he will get as the President has already said he is 'open" to this.

Instead of "confront the children", I think it is to enforce United States Law, and to try and secure the border !

Just another way of saying it I guess

PS...He really does not NEED WH approval. If he doesnt get it, he pays.

janmcn
07-21-2014, 03:52 PM
PS...He really does not NEED WH approval. If he doesnt get it, he pays.

Gov Perry is already asking for federal funds to pay for this deployment, but if congress doesn't approve the funds the president requested, Perry will be on his own.

janmcn
07-21-2014, 04:35 PM
Gov Rick Perry is being praised for sending the national guard to the border to inform the child invaders that there is no health care available in Texas for children.

graciegirl
07-21-2014, 04:51 PM
Gov Rick Perry is being praised for sending the national guard to the border to inform the child invaders that there is no health care available in Texas for children.

Sometimes people have to understand that they can't spend more than they make, can't keep having children, giving money to good causes. We first have to pay the bills and take care of our own. That doesn't mean we are unfeeling people. It just means that those who think like we do are the ones that have to clean up the messes and pay the bills for the ones who aren't practical..

Rags123
07-21-2014, 04:52 PM
A poster early on had a good answer to part of this problem, but it was removed apparently for being too po*****al. Why, I don't know, because many posts after that have been more you-know-what than hers. Anyway, it had to do with limiting the amount of time people could be in office so as to take *******s out of the equation.

Did not see that post. Was it referring to the WH, or what ?

There are TWO discussions getting all bunched together.

1. The current, immediate problem with those folks from Central America. Caused by amnesty in 2012, insecure borders and lack of applying our law, and the 2008 humanitarian law being used as cover.

Recall the amnesty, enforce the law...secure our borders....alter the 2008 law.

2. Overall immigration reform. THIS has become political, and these folks (immigrants) are being used as pawns. Until the WH, Senate and House, at minimum talk to each other, we are in trouble.

Not sure term limits would work....there are pluses, but it will not change the man/woman

Rags123
07-21-2014, 04:54 PM
Gov Rick Perry is being praised for sending the national guard to the border to inform the child invaders that there is no health care available in Texas for children.

That message should have been delivered a long time ago when Perry and Brewer first began to talk about the problem.

Enforce the law...respect the law

Rags123
07-21-2014, 04:57 PM
Gov Perry is already asking for federal funds to pay for this deployment, but if congress doesn't approve the funds the president requested, Perry will be on his own.

If they approve the amount the President requested, they should all be impeached, and if they even discuss it before enforcing existing law and getting the border halfway secure, there needs to be public outcry

graciegirl
07-21-2014, 05:03 PM
It looks ugly Buggy. But it is the law...and many of us think something has to be done to stop this.

billethkid
07-21-2014, 06:01 PM
Gov Rick Perry is being praised for sending the national guard to the border to inform the child invaders that there is no health care available in Texas for children.

That is one interpretation that apparently accomplishes something for somebody, however that is not what he is doing!!

perrjojo
07-21-2014, 06:09 PM
Let each family who is in favor of allowing these children into the US take 2 or 3 into their home. If we allow these children in, someone must care for them. Institutions and camps are NOT a nurturing environment for children. Who among us will love them..guide them and help them grow into responsible adults and good US citizens? The government can't do that. Only you and I can do that. If you think this is a good idea, sign up to take some of these children into your care.

TexaninVA
07-21-2014, 06:29 PM
...and for how many years did they endure much worse conditions from where they came?

We should have them resettled as soon as possible.

Ok, here we go again. You say "we" should resettle them soonest etc.

However, I say this is NOT America's problem. The world is full of misery, and always has been. We cannot take everyone on board without sinking the ship.

Thus, instead of saying in effect, someone else needs to solve it, I am still waiting for you or Tennisnut to lead by example. Invite 4 or 5 illegal aliens to come live with you, and then come back and tell us about it.

TexaninVA
07-21-2014, 06:35 PM
Gov Rick Perry is sending a thousand of his armed National Guardsmen to the border today to confront the children. This should make for some interesting images on the news.

In addition to deploying the military (which I support), the USG needs to demand that Mexico stop the illegal alien flow and make them pay a price (diplomatic, economic or military) if they don't. This is the topic no one ever talks about ... why not??

This is an invasion in every sense of the word except that no shots are being fired.

perrjojo
07-21-2014, 06:36 PM
Ok, here we go again. You say "we" should resettle them soonest etc.

However, I say this is NOT America's problem. The world is full of misery, and always has been. We cannot take everyone on board without sinking the ship.

Thus, instead of saying in effect, someone else needs to solve it, I am still waiting for you or Tennisnut to lead by example. Invite 4 or 5 illegal aliens to come live with you, and then come back and tell us about it.
Amen...maybe because we both seem to be Texans we better understand the problem of illegal immigration. Who will love these children? You can't just throw money and government programs at them and make it all better. They are children and they need families who love and care about them.... Not some "resettlement camp".

jbdlfan
07-21-2014, 06:39 PM
OK, I get all the hyperbole over cost, morals and the such. I ask, what do you do with these kids now? What if we can't figure out where they came from? What if they are truly orphans or unable to find their families? There are thousands of these kids. Send them back? Where? This is a terrible situation that does not have the easy answers everyone professes to have.

Rags123
07-21-2014, 06:42 PM
Amen...maybe because we both seem to be Texans we better understand the problem of illegal immigration. Who will love these children? You can't just throw money and government programs at them and make it all better. They are children and they need families who love and care about them.... Not some "resettlement camp".

There are those who have only one response..ie., play that card that reduces everyone to unsympathetic, intolerant, racist, and try to lay guilt.

There is no discussion of the real issue; simply an attempt to place guilt in your lap.

Steve & Deanna
07-21-2014, 06:43 PM
I'm taking the easy way out and go golfing. Seriously, what will the world do when the US runs OUT OF MONEY and we are taxed at 100%?

eweissenbach
07-21-2014, 06:44 PM
OK, I get all the hyperbole over cost, morals and the such. I ask, what do you do with these kids now? What if we can't figure out where they came from? What if they are truly orphans or unable to find their families? There are thousands of these kids. Send them back? Where? This is a terrible situation that does not have the easy answers everyone professes to have.

True... If there were easy answers, there would be no problem. God knows our politicians love easy!

Rags123
07-21-2014, 06:46 PM
OK, I get all the hyperbole over cost, morals and the such. I ask, what do you do with these kids now? What if we can't figure out where they came from? What if they are truly orphans or unable to find their families? There are thousands of these kids. Send them back? Where? This is a terrible situation that does not have the easy answers everyone professes to have.


First of all, the official word is that they will be deported. Of course that is based on the assumption they actually turn up at a hearing.

Secondly, and please do not take this personally, but where was everyone when the governors of the border states were yelling for the last year(s) about this. These states were left on their own, and their simple request was....enforce United States Law !

Steve & Deanna
07-21-2014, 06:51 PM
One of the most LEGAL immigrants, Vito Androlini from Corleone, Sicily.....and the guy at the desk couldn't spell Androlini so into the US came Vito Corleone. Just watched Godfather Part II for the umpteenth time yesterday. Now that was controlled immigration.

billethkid
07-21-2014, 07:03 PM
First of all, the official word is that they will be deported. Of course that is based on the assumption they actually turn up at a hearing.

Secondly, and please do not take this personally, but where was everyone when the governors of the border states were yelling for the last year(s) about this. These states were left on their own, and their simple request was....enforce United States Law !

On the subject of deportation, just google and do some research on actual deportations VS court order to do so. One conclusion will be very obvious. What are there so many that have not been put out of the country as ordered?
Total lack of enforcement. Judge slams the gavel says thou shalt be deported. Then Mr./Ms. X goes back to work, scholl or building a bomb!!!!
No fear of being arrested.

This is of course not discussed much....either.

Tennisnut
07-21-2014, 07:12 PM
has the compassion taken care of those kids/youngsters born here or here legally in similar or worse conditions here in the USA?

How much of the free stuff being made available for the "illegals" is also available for those LEGALS in need here in the USA?

How many votes could be in that.....not enough obviously.

Lets save the free stuff for the "legals" for another day. That's another post about how all the "legals" are abusing the welfare system and don't want to work. You know-how we all worked hard for where we got and today everyone wants a handout. Please don't confuse and already confusing situation full of innuendo and disinformation!

graciegirl
07-21-2014, 07:23 PM
Lets save the free stuff for the "legals" for another day. That's another post about how all the "legals" are abusing the welfare system and don't want to work. You know-how we all worked hard for where we got and today everyone wants a handout. Please don't confuse and already confusing situation full of innuendo and disinformation!


I asked this earlier but no answer.
Could you explain your posts on this thread in one sentence? Somehow I am not understanding.

perrjojo
07-21-2014, 07:27 PM
Lets save the free stuff for the "legals" for another day. That's another post about how all the "legals" are abusing the welfare system and don't want to work. You know-how we all worked hard for where we got and today everyone wants a handout. Please don't confuse and already confusing situation full of innuendo and disinformation!

What are YOU willing to do for these children? What do YOU see as an answer?

sunnyatlast
07-21-2014, 07:28 PM
No need for concern about who will lovingly care for and nurture the children better than the camp squalor they're in now. Their parents will be crossing the borders soon, or are already here illegally with their government-provided lawyers and U.S.-born Anchor Babies, pleading "the parents here can't leave their U.S. Citizen anchor babies here alone, where they have a right to live and get a college education."

That's been the strategy all along, by design of the bleeding hearts who have no use for pesky laws. Get the kids onto U.S. soil, where their parents "are needed to take care of them" and "it would be inhumane to separate parent and child and the child has to stay...so the parent has to stay also".

zcaveman
07-21-2014, 07:47 PM
Just out of curiosity, where did you get this quote from?

Z

I sang it in high school. Are you an American citizen? If so, you should know where it comes from. If not, google will answer your question.

CFRANCE: I am still waiting for the answer. I cannot find it anywhere.

Please give me the answer I BEG you.

PS: If anyone knows the answer Please let me know.

Quote below:

Many try to place guilt on those of us who believe in the proper execution of law. It does not work on me for one.

I welcome all humanity, but within the law, not outside it based on political philosophy if that is the driver to NOT execute existing law, nor to address what is obviously the trigger for the current problem.

I feel guilty mostly for not being able to help those who are being required to care for those who came here under false pretenses, not matter how those pretenses were manufactured.

I feel guilty for the inaction of our government as a whole to address the situation and how it will affect us in the future.

I feel guilty for those all over the world being killed and maimed...in Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Israel. I feel guilty for those who go to bed each night with a threat hanging over their head.

I do not feel guilty for wanting my countries laws to be respected, followed and adhered to.

Mr Buggyone, your comment is extremely offensive to anyone who really cares about humanity, because if anyone cares about humanity, that would also include citizens of this country, that would include those suffering as a result of the run on our borders.

These folks were not attacked by us......

No, I feel not one single iota of guilt, but as you did on another thread Mr Buggyone, your attempt at laying guilt at everyones feet without addressing the problem is apparent.

The thread was not and should not be political. It is a concern about what our country stands for. Your response is the political response of the day and goes to solve nothing.

No, I stand tall, proud of my TOLERANCE and will not accept an attempt to use a tactic such as you have in your post.

CFrance
07-21-2014, 07:55 PM
CFRANCE: I am still waiting for the answer. I cannot find it anywhere.

Please give me the answer I BEG you.

PS: If anyone knows the answer Please let me know.

Quote below:

Many try to place guilt on those of us who believe in the proper execution of law. It does not work on me for one.

I welcome all humanity, but within the law, not outside it based on political philosophy if that is the driver to NOT execute existing law, nor to address what is obviously the trigger for the current problem.

I feel guilty mostly for not being able to help those who are being required to care for those who came here under false pretenses, not matter how those pretenses were manufactured.

I feel guilty for the inaction of our government as a whole to address the situation and how it will affect us in the future.

I feel guilty for those all over the world being killed and maimed...in Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Israel. I feel guilty for those who go to bed each night with a threat hanging over their head.

I do not feel guilty for wanting my countries laws to be respected, followed and adhered to.

Mr Buggyone, your comment is extremely offensive to anyone who really cares about humanity, because if anyone cares about humanity, that would also include citizens of this country, that would include those suffering as a result of the run on our borders.

These folks were not attacked by us......

No, I feel not one single iota of guilt, but as you did on another thread Mr Buggyone, your attempt at laying guilt at everyones feet without addressing the problem is apparent.

The thread was not and should not be political. It is a concern about what our country stands for. Your response is the political response of the day and goes to solve nothing.

No, I stand tall, proud of my TOLERANCE and will not accept an attempt to use a tactic such as you have in your post.
Z, somebody else answered it. It is a poem by Emma Lazarus that was later put to music (when I sang it in high school) but before that was placed on the base of the Statue of Liberty after a fundraiser was conducted to have it placed there. It has nothing to do with p***tics, but I still cannot believe that if you grew up in the US, you didn't learn about this in American history class.

Plus the way you stated your question, referring to it as "the long-winded one," raised my hackles. The question didn't have to be raised in such a rude manner. I hate rude, and it makes me respond shortly. And if you really googled it, you would have found it. I did.

DONKEY10
07-21-2014, 08:03 PM
Yeah a high wall from SanDiego to Texas and from Maine to Vancouver and man it with the army. Who cares how it looks we protecting our borders. You do not have a country without borders.

CFrance
07-21-2014, 08:09 PM
What are YOU willing to do for these children? What do YOU see as an answer?
I remember after the Vietnam war that many people sent their children over to the US. Churches sponsored them, found them families/homes, and sent them to school. One of them was a very intelligent lady who later was hired by my husband after she graduated from college, and was a superb employee.

Then there were the lost boys from the Sudan, many of whom were also brought over here by church sponsorship and given homes and education. There will be people willing to sponsor these children and find homes for them.

I'm not saying what's right and what's wrong. I can't even decide what my feeling is on all this. But I am saying that these children need help, and there will be families to step up to help those that are allowed in. Maybe I'm naive, but I do not believe that they are being used as pawns so their parents can enter the country later. As I said in an earlier post, there have been many times down through the years when parents have sent their children off to safety unaccompanied because they feared for them.

Tennisnut
07-21-2014, 08:38 PM
What are YOU willing to do for these children? What do YOU see as an answer?

Pay my taxes, vote and support the current administrations actions. I believe the current administration is currently doing the right thing since I do not feel threatened by what some characterize as an invasion. I know that is not one sentence, but I hope everyone understands my position.

CFrance
07-21-2014, 08:40 PM
Pay my taxes, vote and support the current administrations actions. I believe the current administration is currently doing the right thing since I do not feel threatened by what some characterize as an invasion. I know that is not one sentence, but I hope everyone understands my position.
I understand your position, and I am glad you have stated it in the face of much opposition.

VT2TV
07-21-2014, 10:24 PM
No need for concern about who will lovingly care for and nurture the children better than the camp squalor they're in now. Their parents will be crossing the borders soon, or are already here illegally with their government-provided lawyers and U.S.-born Anchor Babies, pleading "the parents here can't leave their U.S. Citizen anchor babies here alone, where they have a right to live and get a college education."

That's been the strategy all along, by design of the bleeding hearts who have no use for pesky laws. Get the kids onto U.S. soil, where their parents "are needed to take care of them" and "it would be inhumane to separate parent and child and the child has to stay...so the parent has to stay also".


I know this will sound cynical, but I am willing to bet that very few of these children will ever show up for any hearing. But if they do and if their parents conveniently show up too, I think they all should be sent back to their own countries. This country is currently unable to feed, clothe, educate, and shelter even a portion of our legal citizens now. People here in this country die every day because for whatever reason they cannot care for themselves. If you want to adopt children who need your help, or support people who are living in crime ridden areas, or help to care for people who can't get the medicines to adequately take care of themselves, and a thousand other sad situation--you don't need to bring in ANY ONE else. You can find these same people in this county, this state, this country, If we can't care for your own citizens, you sure can't adequately care for others. There will ALWAYS be sad, horrible situations all over the world. Charity begins at home. You take care of the people already here. When I was in school, we went on visits to homes right in our town, Everyone of us barely got out of the house before we burst into tears because of the situations. So before we try to take care of the rest of the world-which we never will, forgive me if I think there are plenty of horrible, devastating situations involving CHILDREN as well as adults right here, right now. Especially when the people coming here are coming here illegally. Feel free to do research and check it out if you don't believe me. Children here in this country die every day from diseases, starvation, and abuse. What about them? If we spread our resources too thin, no one will get good care. How many people can survive on 1 piece of bread. how many can we really help that will actually be enough to really help, and not just appear to help????

graciegirl
07-22-2014, 12:36 AM
I think it is cowardly to send children. I think that no matter how bad the circumstances, most people would brave the journey themselves, man or woman and hope to make a home and send for the child and the family member who was caring for it back home. On the way the child could be hurt or killed or harmed or lost.

Then there is the money and power of the huge drug cartel who could have a hand in this and behind cooercing people to enter our country to establish yet another link in their big business. Or because the parents are addicted. They aren't acting the way parents usually act. They would come themselves. It is just human nature.


You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

graciegirl
07-22-2014, 12:56 AM
Here is what Australia requires for you to immigrate to their country.

Move To Australia - Immigration FAQ's (http://www.movetoaustralia.org/australian-immigration.html)

manaboutown
07-22-2014, 02:53 AM
Can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em. Why should the tax payers of the USA be responsible for the children of other countries? Hello!

MikeV
07-22-2014, 05:17 AM
I think all of you who support the illegal immigration of anyone not just children should open your wallet and pay your fare share of the cost. The $3.7 Billion requested is about $12000 per person in the US. When you consider that 50% of Americans don't pay any federal income tax then it is $24000 per tax payer. So all you that support "the children" pay up. Oh, and that is just for now you will be paying every month for their upkeep.

I realize that all the money that goes into the federal government is not from income taxes alone so don't jump on my math it was for illustration only.

Rags123
07-22-2014, 06:40 AM
Pay my taxes, vote and support the current administrations actions. I believe the current administration is currently doing the right thing since I do not feel threatened by what some characterize as an invasion. I know that is not one sentence, but I hope everyone understands my position.

You bring the P word into this conversation and since that is not something that is allowed on here, I will carefully say that I do not believe in blind loyalty to any organization, and that I also believe in the rule of LAW.

I might suggest that you read the Washington Post and Washington Times yesterday and today to get more insight into how long this problem has been at the level you mention and the attitude expressed by them toward it(a local problem is one response).

This is OUR border, and OUR laws in play. While you personally do not feel threatened, many many of your fellow Americans have felt threatened for a few years now, and have felt ignored.

I, also, am not personally threatened but am not also personally threatened by what is happening in Ukraine or Israel or Syria, but I still care....I still keep informed...I still have an opinion. Heck, I was not personally threatened when 9/11 took place as I was here in Florida.

ALL of those examples are simple words to make my point.....each and every one of them threaten me in some way.

Again, p......s aside, can we agree that our laws should be enforced ?

mickey100
07-22-2014, 06:43 AM
Pay my taxes, vote and support the current administrations actions. I believe the current administration is currently doing the right thing since I do not feel threatened by what some characterize as an invasion. I know that is not one sentence, but I hope everyone understands my position.

I agree. Thanks for posting.

rp001
07-22-2014, 06:55 AM
I agree. Thanks for posting.

I agree with this too, in fact far more do than will admit publicly.

nitehawk
07-22-2014, 07:05 AM
The Mexican immigrants entering the usa are only going back to the land that the US took away from them --- it was their land - how about the land the American Indians owned - that we decided we wanted and took. Now we can tell rest of the world who owns what and who does not - and who should govern the land they live in - pass the tea or kool-aid

graciegirl
07-22-2014, 07:11 AM
The Mexican immigrants entering the usa are only going back to the land that the US took away from them --- it was their land - how about the land the American Indians owned - that we decided we wanted and took. Now we can tell rest of the world who owns what and who does not - and who should govern the land they live in - pass the tea or kool-aid


Then of course, there was the "recent unpleasantness" that tore up the North and South.

That was then, and this is now. THIS is OUR piece of history.

We even change in our own life times. Once when I was very young, before I worked hard and saved, and did without to get our first house, I used to think that we could help all of society's ills. We who were whole were responsible for all. I believed that people would be better for my efforts to help them.

And then I grew older and found that many aren't better for having things given to them. And many lie to get free things, and many feel entitled to live off the rest who work.

I still care, and I still want to help, but I am often skeptical. I guess that is age, and possibly wisdom.

We would be far worse off without the attitude that so many share here in The Villages. We are the majority HERE, Thank God, and it feels good to be with so many sage people. But do NOT call us unfeeling.

Here is a picture of my immigrant grandparents, God Bless them.

http://mediasvc.ancestry.com/image/d95ade1f-ffd9-44c0-9e93-802ad21965e9.jpg?Client=MCCManager&NamespaceID=1093&MaxSide=160 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=PZsjcLHa2dx37M&tbnid=gZttJcQtr92GTM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Frecords.ancestry.com%2Fbalthasar_ heller_records.ashx%3Fpid%3D69479931&ei=0VrOU_neIcSqyATWk4KADQ&psig=AFQjCNFLcsWTok8IquFG17j3UzxbPVyPqw&ust=1406118957557077)

billethkid
07-22-2014, 08:15 AM
all minority reports are duly noted!!

njbchbum
07-22-2014, 08:44 AM
Pay my taxes, vote and support the current administrations actions. I believe the current administration is currently doing the right thing since I do not feel threatened by what some characterize as an invasion. I know that is not one sentence, but I hope everyone understands my position.

I am sure there are many who feel as you do - and it begs the question - how much more in taxes will you be comfortable spending on social welfare programs to support the new eligibles?

How much of the dollar do you think folks should be required to give to the government and then be allowed to keep for themselves? How will increased taxes impact the rising cost of living in the villages [read that as amenities fees and golf trail fees and food and entertainment] with a decreased disposable income?

billethkid
07-22-2014, 08:54 AM
I am sure there are many who feel as you do - and it begs the question - how much more in taxes will you be comfortable spending on social welfare programs to support the new eligibles?

How much of the dollar do you think folks should be required to give to the government and then be allowed to keep for themselves? How will increased taxes impact the rising cost of living in the villages [read that as amenities fees and golf trail fees and food and entertainment] with a decreased disposable income?

And do they support without question implementing a program that gives equal benefits to America's needy, not so fortunate, legal residents?

Challenger
07-22-2014, 09:22 AM
I think all of you who support the illegal immigration of anyone not just children should open your wallet and pay your fare share of the cost. The $3.7 Billion requested is about $12000 per person in the US. When you consider that 50% of Americans don't pay any federal income tax then it is $24000 per tax payer. So all you that support "the children" pay up. Oh, and that is just for now you will be paying every month for their upkeep.

I realize that all the money that goes into the federal government is not from income taxes alone so don't jump on my math it was for illustration only.

Think the math is wrong

should be $ 12.00 and $24.00 based on your premise

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
07-22-2014, 11:05 AM
The premise is also wrong. Out of 330,000,000 people only about 138,000,000 are considered to be taxpayers. The rest are children, disabled etc.

Out of those 138,000,000 only a little over half actually pay any income tax. The rest get all or most of what they pay in back in the form of a refund.

So we have about 70,000,000 footing the bill for the rest of us.

TexaninVA
07-22-2014, 11:44 AM
I think all of you who support the illegal immigration of anyone not just children should open your wallet and pay your fare share of the cost. The $3.7 Billion requested is about $12000 per person in the US. When you consider that 50% of Americans don't pay any federal income tax then it is $24000 per tax payer. So all you that support "the children" pay up. Oh, and that is just for now you will be paying every month for their upkeep.

I realize that all the money that goes into the federal government is not from income taxes alone so don't jump on my math it was for illustration only.

That is exactly right ...ie your concept, even if the math is arguable. Instead of having one's heart bleed from afar, and talk about voting/taxes yadda, step up and write a personal check if you truly think you have to solve the world's problems 24x7. Another way of showing you are serious is to invite some illegal alien kids over to stay with you. The people who advocate in effect open borders, never want to write the check or actually do anything ...it's always about good intentions and that's where it stops..

TexaninVA
07-22-2014, 11:49 AM
The Mexican immigrants entering the usa are only going back to the land that the US took away from them --- it was their land - how about the land the American Indians owned - that we decided we wanted and took. Now we can tell rest of the world who owns what and who does not - and who should govern the land they live in - pass the tea or kool-aid


WOW!! This is the "blame America first , we are all rotten "philosophy that erupted in the 60s and has been with us ever since. You need to brush up on your history and the lessons it offers:

Three points.

1. The US Army took control and occupied of all of Mexico in 1848... when we retreated north of the Rio Grande, the side that has English law and free markets on their side prospered. The side that didn't wallowed in poverty and crime, and remains so screwed up to this day that half the people want to jump the river into our country because it offers more opportunity. Is this not obvious? Mexico would have been better off if we had kept the Army there and annexed the whole place instead of CA, AZ, NM and TX.

2. History has been ALL ABOUT the ethic of conquest since time began. The Greeks, the Romans, the Muslims, the Crusades, Attila and his Huns etc etc etc. The list is endless. In this instance, the Mexicans kicked the Spaniards out of Mexico, but they took it from the Indians. Then the Mexicans, after losing half to us, then screwed the remaining half of Mexico up, except for the food and Margaritas.

3. The true losers were indeed the Indians. These guys lost because they failed to enforce their borders and then let us (ie Europeans) in such that we took over. That's what's going to happen in reverse if we don't finally demand action. Maybe we should learn from their mistake? You may be so guilt ridden as to welcome losing your country, but most of us will fight to keep it.

Rags123
07-22-2014, 11:50 AM
It is very difficult to read here and realize that Villagers support with vigor the NON enforcement of USA law, the adding to welfare rolls that are already totally overloaded, the added tax expense involved and feel it is just fine and ok to grant amnesty to people who will, for the most part, further tax our system that is already overtaxed.

To do all this, with no comments about the LAW....just comments that...well do not make any common sense at all. It is just rhetoric.

Those who are FOR this not enforcing the law, granting amnesty with a wide sweep, adding to our already out of line costs, NEVER EVER discuss the actual facts of what is happening right now. They NEVER EVER discuss the impact on the poor Americans who live in these areas.

If you all think this checkbook has NO end in sight, you are sadly mistaken.....if you think that living here in The Villages, safe and secure and telling others to take care of it is the right thing to do....well, that is what makes this difficult. I can list other NATIONAL stories that elicited such posts and support on here....such support and "pity" from the seat of our government and they did not even come close to the impact on so many people as this. Why is that ?

None of you talk about the actual happenings....what is actually happening in your country to your fellow Americans. The preference seems to be.....try and make others feel guilty, which is really getting old....and to simply say....I support......no more.....just that.

TexaninVA
07-22-2014, 11:51 AM
Lets save the free stuff for the "legals" for another day. That's another post about how all the "legals" are abusing the welfare system and don't want to work. You know-how we all worked hard for where we got and today everyone wants a handout. Please don't confuse and already confusing situation full of innuendo and disinformation!

No, let's not save it for another day... the free stuff is the essence of what this problem is all about and we all know that. While no doubt most illegals are fleeing rotten circumstances, please note they are not going to Nicaragua, even though this socialist country has nice beaches and retirement real estate. They are coming to the US because they know we are a soft touch for "kids" and they will get free stuff. Heck, thy get free airplane tickets too, three squares, medical treatment, ACLU lawyers, etc.

I would also ask that you not use sarcasm about how we all worked hard etc .. because in fact we did. I'm assuming you did too ?

manaboutown
07-22-2014, 12:26 PM
The Mexican immigrants entering the usa are only going back to the land that the US took away from them --- it was their land - how about the land the American Indians owned - that we decided we wanted and took. Now we can tell rest of the world who owns what and who does not - and who should govern the land they live in - pass the tea or kool-aid

These illegal immigrants are largely descendants of indigenous populations from areas further south in Mexico as well as other countries in Latin America. They are not the descendants of persons displaced from the southwestern USA.

Tennisnut
07-22-2014, 02:48 PM
No, let's not save it for another day... the free stuff is the essence of what this problem is all about and we all know that. While no doubt most illegals are fleeing rotten circumstances, please note they are not going to Nicaragua, even though this socialist country has nice beaches and retirement real estate. They are coming to the US because they know we are a soft touch for "kids" and they will get free stuff. Heck, thy get free airplane tickets too, three squares, medical treatment, ACLU lawyers, etc.

I would also ask that you not use sarcasm about how we all worked hard etc .. because in fact we did. I'm assuming you did too ?

Yes, payed for everything since I was 16 including rent, clothes, etc. So I understand the hard luck have not being born with with an endowed support system. Never inherited a dime and worked my way through college. With that, I do not believe everyone is trying to take advantage of me or the system or have the bitterness that I feel is sometimes manifested on this site.

TexaninVA
07-22-2014, 03:49 PM
Yes, payed for everything since I was 16 including rent, clothes, etc. So I understand the hard luck have not being born with with an endowed support system. Never inherited a dime and worked my way through college. With that, I do not believe everyone is trying to take advantage of me or the system or have the bitterness that I feel is sometimes manifested on this site.

Congratulations then on achieving the American Dream via the route of hard work. Sound like you were also the first in your family to earn a college degree. I was the first in mine as well.

However, I think you're indulging in something of a straw man with your last sentence. The people on this board who are upset about the lack of immigration law enforcement do not believe "...everyone" is trying to take advantage of them. However, it is perfectly obvious that the illegals are fleeing rotten hellhole countries and attempting to get "permisos" to live in the USA, and then get the free stuff that goes with it. Do you actually dispute that on a factual basis? If so, please come out and argue that point directly.

You may feel "bitterness" is manifested. Others would say we are fed up with being made to somehow feel guilty about living in America and being successful. We've reached our limit with this border fiasco. What you see as bitterness, I would term frustration or exasperation -- coupled with a demand for action that is increasing, and will not go away.

janmcn
07-22-2014, 03:57 PM
Congratulations then on achieving the American Dream via the route of hard work. Sound like you were also the first in your family to earn a college degree. I was the first in mine as well.

However, I think you're indulging in something of a straw man with your last sentence. The people on this board who are upset about the lack of immigration law enforcement do not believe "...everyone" is trying to take advantage of them. However, it is perfectly obvious that the illegals are fleeing rotten hellhole countries and attempting to get "permisos" to live in the USA, and then get the free stuff that goes with it. Do you actually dispute that on a factual basis? If so, please come out and argue that point directly.

You may feel "bitterness" is manifested. Others would say we are fed up with being made to somehow feel guilty about living in America and being successful. We've reached our limit with this border fiasco. What you see as bitterness, I would term frustration or exasperation -- coupled with a demand for action that is increasing, and will not go away.


There is only one way to change the direction of this country, and that is with new leadership. To get that new leadership, one will need the support of Hispanics and all other minorities. It's just a matter of demographics.

It's sort of like a Catch 22 situation.

billethkid
07-22-2014, 04:03 PM
There is only one way to change the direction of this country, and that is with new leadership. To get that new leadership, one will need the support of Hispanics and all other minorities. It's just a matter of demographics.

It's sort of like a Catch 22 situation.

the recent and current influx and no enforcement of immigration rules is for sure future seeding.....eh?

janmcn
07-22-2014, 04:09 PM
the recent and current influx and no enforcement of immigration rules is for sure future seeding.....eh?

No. The numbers were there in 2008 and 2012, long before the recent and current influx.

Rags123
07-22-2014, 04:48 PM
As expected we have the same folks now beginning the political slamming and thus sadly, another discussion will bite the dust.

This thread was NOT about politics. It was about a poster who felt the American dream of immigrating here was dead. It fostered, rightfully so, into a discussion of the current border problem.

Those who now talk of elections, voting blocs, etc are the ones that have NO...ZERO views on the subject at hand yet are now going to get into the name calling which they call discussion.

This will end this thread of course and sometimes I think these SAME folks have that as their intent.

But to close.....our borders are still welcoming in my opinion but with controls that we has the owner of those borders should set. We need to enforce current law on those borders (it still confuses me how ANYONE can be against enforcing our own laws). In my opinion, on this current situation, as opposed to the "big picture" immigration, we need to back track on the amnesty and "tweak" the 2008 law.

Once done then somebody somewhere has to lead the conversation for comprehensive immigration reform, BUT NOT UNTIL the current situation is under control. I have no way of knowing if this is what some want...ie, pressure on folks to go one way or another by allowing this current thing to apply pressure but I sure hope not.

To those who are on here speaking of conservatives, voting blocs, etc......THIS IS WHY NO SOLUTIONS CAN BE REACHED. Your interest is not in solving the problem....your interest is in being right in your mind and insuring whatever side you are on is the "winner". Good luck with that attitude

Noone on here can really solve anything but in this country there helps to have healthy debate on subjects. That is normally how folks get educated and informed. Voting blocs ? I was shocked that someone would bring that up.....if that is the intention of the amnesty, etc, I am sickened by it.

TexaninVA
07-22-2014, 05:12 PM
As expected we have the same folks now beginning the political slamming and thus sadly, another discussion will bite the dust.

This thread was NOT about politics. It was about a poster who felt the American dream of immigrating here was dead. It fostered, rightfully so, into a discussion of the current border problem.

Those who now talk of elections, voting blocs, etc are the ones that have NO...ZERO views on the subject at hand yet are now going to get into the name calling which they call discussion.

This will end this thread of course and sometimes I think these SAME folks have that as their intent.

But to close.....our borders are still welcoming in my opinion but with controls that we has the owner of those borders should set. We need to enforce current law on those borders (it still confuses me how ANYONE can be against enforcing our own laws). In my opinion, on this current situation, as opposed to the "big picture" immigration, we need to back track on the amnesty and "tweak" the 2008 law.

Once done then somebody somewhere has to lead the conversation for comprehensive immigration reform, BUT NOT UNTIL the current situation is under control. I have no way of knowing if this is what some want...ie, pressure on folks to go one way or another by allowing this current thing to apply pressure but I sure hope not.

To those who are on here speaking of conservatives, voting blocs, etc......THIS IS WHY NO SOLUTIONS CAN BE REACHED. Your interest is not in solving the problem....your interest is in being right in your mind and insuring whatever side you are on is the "winner". Good luck with that attitude

Noone on here can really solve anything but in this country there helps to have healthy debate on subjects. That is normally how folks get educated and informed. Voting blocs ? I was shocked that someone would bring that up.....if that is the intention of the amnesty, etc, I am sickened by it.

I empathize with your frustration at the lack of interest by many in enforcing the law. That would certainly solve most of the problem. I also note your comments about voting blocs, etc. Not appropriate or at least not helpful. And I agree, without genuinely secure borders, comprehensive reform is a complete non-starter.

Here's IMHO the gist of the immigration issue ... ie, my two cents:

1. Legal immigrants who can support themselves and help the country are most WELCOME!! (my dentist is Vietnamese, my doctor is from India ... the more the merrier)

2. Illegal aliens who come here with nothing to offer and need to be supported by the taxpayers are not welcome, especially if they sneak in over the border. Every country in the world as far as I know follows a policy similar to this ... because it's the only rational policy any country can follow and still remain a country.

NoMoSno
07-22-2014, 05:19 PM
I empathize with your frustration at the lack of interest by many in enforcing the law. That would certainly solve most of the problem. I also note your comments about voting blocs, etc. Not appropriate or at least not helpful. And I agree, without genuinely secure borders, comprehensive reform is a complete non-starter.

Here's IMHO the gist of the immigration issue ... ie, my two cents:

1. Legal immigrants who can support themselves and help the country are most WELCOME!! (my dentist is Vietnamese, my doctor is from India ... the more the merrier)

2. Illegal aliens who come here with nothing to offer and need to be supported by the taxpayers are not welcome, especially if they sneak in over the border. Every country in the world as far as I know follows a policy similar to this ... because it's the only rational policy any country can follow and still remain a country.

:agree: 100%

njbchbum
07-22-2014, 05:25 PM
snipped
But to close.....our borders are still welcoming in my opinion but with controls that we has the owner of those borders should set. We need to enforce current law on those borders (it still confuses me how ANYONE can be against enforcing our own laws). In my opinion, on this current situation, as opposed to the "big picture" immigration, we need to back track on the amnesty and "tweak" the 2008 law.
snipped


Are you referencing the WILLIAM WILBERFORCE TRAFFICKING VICTIMS PROTECTION REAUTHORIZATION ACT OF 2008? The legislation that was intended to protect people from being exploited by human traffickers?

If so, I would like to know how this legislation was ever aborted to support the current influx of immigrants without papers.

Tweaking in my mind would simply be to obey it and provide protection for people in need of protection from smuggling traffickers...the purpose for which it was written!

SheilaO
07-22-2014, 05:35 PM
My ancestors had to have a sponsor. My grandfather was indentured. There is a legal way and an illegal way to become a citizen.

And our country is already in debt. There is only so much we can do financially. We can't take care of everybody. No matter if they long to be here and are good people. This isn't the way we used to do things. We are being overwhelmed with people just strolling in. That beautiful quote above was written before we had welfare. People who came here had to be able to take care of themselves immediately.

[COLOR="DarkGreen"] I totally agree for the reasons you have given! How many people could we take into our home if people kept knocking on the door and wanted us to care for them? Please understand, I am a Christian and believe strongly in helping your neighbor� but also believe the best way to help them is to teach them to be responsible...

Rags123
07-22-2014, 05:42 PM
Are you referencing the WILLIAM WILBERFORCE TRAFFICKING VICTIMS PROTECTION REAUTHORIZATION ACT OF 2008? The legislation that was intended to protect people from being exploited by human traffickers?

If so, I would like to know from how this legislation was ever aborted to support the current influx of immigrants without papers.

Tweaking in my mind would simply be to obey it and provide protection for people in need of protection from smuggling traffickers...the purpose for which it was written!

Thats the law I refer to.

Problem is that just about 100% of those crossing (and this does not apply to Mexicans..only certain central Americans).....anyway almost anyone from those countries can qualify...all they need to do is proclaim they are a victim and the process which takes time..begins.

I am not a lawyer, but this law is what has been abused ever since the amnesty was given. It was/is considered the loophole to get them in this country. They are then dispersed with an attempt to match with family and given a hearing date. I do not know how to "tweak" it.....under the circumstances maybe just repeal it.

So you have these poor central Americans who saw the amnesty as a signal (nobody has yet to tell them otherwise) and use this as a loophole to get in and begin the process because we are not enforcing the laws to deport properly.

njbchbum
07-22-2014, 05:51 PM
Thats the law I refer to.

Problem is that just about 100% of those crossing (and this does not apply to Mexicans..only certain central Americans).....anyway almost anyone from those countries can qualify...all they need to do is proclaim they are a victim and the process which takes time..begins.

I am not a lawyer, but this law is what has been abused ever since the amnesty was given. It was/is considered the loophole to get them in this country. They are then dispersed with an attempt to match with family and given a hearing date. I do not know how to "tweak" it.....under the circumstances maybe just repeal it.

So you have these poor central Americans who saw the amnesty as a signal (nobody has yet to tell them otherwise) and use this as a loophole to get in and begin the process because we are not enforcing the laws to deport properly.


But I have not heard that any one of them declared to be a victim of human trafficking! The key word 'abuse' is apparently being used by our government rather than those crossing the border!

A read through the law is fascinating and a great revelation as to how we have been DUPED!

Rags123
07-22-2014, 08:00 PM
But I have not heard that any one of them declared to be a victim of human trafficking! The key word 'abuse' is apparently being used by our government rather than those crossing the border!

A read through the law is fascinating and a great revelation as to how we have been DUPED!

Well, what I have read is that they are required to show up for a hearing and that only about 10% have actually shown up, so I suppose they are roaming the streets somewhere.

And few, if any, are refused at the border when they declare this law; Just told they have to show up for a hearing, which then they do not attend.

At the risk of being political which is not my intent, I will share a note from an article and if admin finds it political, please simply delete that portion. My intent is to simply share information on a very important issue.

So...here is the quote and the link which discusses the law...

"As I listened on CSPAN radio, an infuriating Mark H. Greenberg, acting assistant secretary at HHS, finally had to admit that it was a deliberate administration policy not to ask the immigration status of parents with whom they were placing illegal immigrant children. Are you kidding me? If the President was dead serious about stopping illegal immigration, and if all departments of government were, in turn, working in consort to solve this epidemic, immigration status would be the first thing that HHS checked. No wonder illegal immigrant children don't show up for deportation hearings. Their illegal immigrant parents and guardians don't want to be busted themselves!"

Dear President Obama: Secure The Border Now Or Risk Civil War*|*James Marshall Crotty (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-marshall-crotty/democrats-to-obama-get-th_b_5575069.html)

This from the Huffington Post also spends time in layman language discussing the law itself.

I am still infuriated about a discussion of voting blocs that someone brought up earlier. What kind of a nation are we that our security, the fiber of our country takes second or third place to voting blocs ? If this is involved in anyway....well...

buggyone
07-22-2014, 08:20 PM
"Well, what I have read is that they are required to show up for a hearing and that only about 10% have actually shown up, so I suppose they are roaming the streets somewhere."

Egads! Not the streets!


Time to close this thread. Nothing new is being said. No minds are being changed. 'Nuff said.

perrjojo
07-22-2014, 10:09 PM
Well, minds are made up but time will tell how it all works out. This is one discussion that I hope I am not "right" because I see nothing good about what is happening.

graciegirl
07-22-2014, 10:47 PM
these children and young adults are running away from areas in central America that are ruled by drug gangs who live off the drugs that americans (including some villagers) buy in great quantities. those drug gang areas are intolerable. if America would stop the drug habit and also help the Latin American countries with some economic aid to create jobs, the tide could turn. Meanwhile these people are human beings and must be given food and safe shelter until their immigration status can be resolved according to legal procedures set up by Congress


How do we know that they aren't being sent here by the drug cartel to establish more home territory?

Tennisnut
07-23-2014, 12:35 AM
How do we know that they aren't being sent here by the drug cartel to establish more home territory?

Are there enough territories to support thousands of new drug pushers? Maybe some of them will become terrorist so there won't be as competition for the terrorities?

njbchbum
07-23-2014, 09:04 AM
Are there enough territories to support thousands of new drug pushers? Maybe some of them will become terrorist so there won't be as competition for the terrorities?

Why so snarky, Tennisnut?

MS-13: Illegal Immigrants In Deadly Gang Slated For Release (http://www.inquisitr.com/1346537/ms-13-illegal-immigrants-in-deadly-gang-slated-for-release/)

graciegirl
07-23-2014, 09:23 AM
Are there enough territories to support thousands of new drug pushers? Maybe some of them will become terrorist so there won't be as competition for the terrorities?


So far I am aware of what you are against. But I have not heard any good answers for this problem. Unrealistic altruism is not helpful.

I am mightily afraid of terrorists from the extreme religious factions. I am overwhelmed by the harm that drugs have done to our society. I am not ashamed of saying that. We can't cure ALL of societies ills. No matter how much we would like to. Who wants an abandoned baby here crying for the familiar? I would do almost anything before I would do that to my child. ALMOST anything. My mother said, we will try to get that done when we can afford to. We cannot do everything. Moderation. That doesn't mean a moderation in compassion.

CFrance
07-23-2014, 09:44 AM
The people who so feared for the life of their children and sent them off alone--Irish famine, Jews in WWII, Cuban boat lift--are the bravest parents of all. I cannot imagine having to make that decision. The ones who did it hoping it would be a ticket for themselves into the country are beyond abusive.

Hubs and I were saying yesterday we should be thanking God every day for those born in America, Canada, or western Europe. There but for the grace of Giod...

graciegirl
07-23-2014, 09:55 AM
The people who so feared for the life of their children and sent them off alone--Irish famine, Jews in WWII, Cuban boat lift--are the bravest parents of all. I cannot imagine having to make that decision. The ones who did it hoping it would be a ticket for themselves into the country are beyond abusive.

Hubs and I were saying yesterday we should be thanking God every day for those born in America, Canada, or western Europe. There but for the grace of Giod...


Here is picture proof of what you say...however this Annie, the first immigrant at Ellis Island, mentioned in the article, traveled alone but had her parents waiting here for her.

Cyndy. I have never read anything from "Mother Jones" before. Is it a reliable source?

Child Migrants Have Been Coming to America Alone Since Ellis Island | Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/07/child-migrant-ellis-island-history)

CFrance
07-23-2014, 10:01 AM
Here is picture proof of what you say...however this Annie, the first immigrant at Ellis Island, mentioned in the article, traveled alone but had her parents waiting here for her.

Cyndy. I have never read anything from "Mother Jones" before. Is it a reliable source?

Child Migrants Have Been Coming to America Alone Since Ellis Island | Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/07/child-migrant-ellis-island-history)

Gracie, I have never heard anyone say it isn't reliable, but they they have a liberal slant. They do freely acknowledge that they are liberal.

billethkid
07-23-2014, 10:07 AM
Child Migrants Have Been Coming to America Alone Since Ellis Island | Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/07/child-migrant-ellis-island-history)[/QUOTE]

some how the intentions the above statement do not relate to what is going on here and now. Who knows what would have transpired at Ellis Island if all the rules of entry were set aside and advertised in their home lands to come on over and don't worry about the laws or a place to live or eat or be cared for.

The intentions of the past and since were not what the intentions of today's wide open Southern Border are attempting.

In my opinion.

Rags123
07-23-2014, 10:17 AM
Child Migrants Have Been Coming to America Alone Since Ellis Island | Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/07/child-migrant-ellis-island-history)

some how the intentions the above statement do not relate to what is going on here and now. Who knows what would have transpired at Ellis Island if all the rules of entry were set aside and advertised in their home lands to come on over and don't worry about the laws or a place to live or eat or be cared for.

The intentions of the past and since were not what the intentions of today's wide open Southern Border are attempting.

In my opinion.[/QUOTE]

It IS quite a long stretch to compare the two for sure..actually, I am unable to see any comparisons. But......and we do not know the intentions for sure...and that is what is scary !

TexaninVA
07-23-2014, 10:36 AM
Here is picture proof of what you say...however this Annie, the first immigrant at Ellis Island, mentioned in the article, traveled alone but had her parents waiting here for her.

Cyndy. I have never read anything from "Mother Jones" before. Is it a reliable source?

Child Migrants Have Been Coming to America Alone Since Ellis Island | Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/07/child-migrant-ellis-island-history)

Gracie,

I think it's fair to say that Mother Jones aligns on the far left side of the political spectrum. Their stated mission of Mother Jones "...is to produce revelatory journalism that in its power and reach informs and inspires a more just and democratic world."

Michael Moore worked there for a while as the Editor before he got fired over an internal dispute.

Chi-Town
07-23-2014, 11:31 AM
Gracie,

I think it's fair to say that Mother Jones aligns on the far left side of the political spectrum. Their stated mission of Mother Jones "...is to produce revelatory journalism that in its power and reach informs and inspires a more just and democratic world."

Michael Moore worked there for a while as the Editor before he got fired over an internal dispute.

The Mother Jones stated mission is your evidence that it is far left? What part?

Gracie,

I think it's fair to say that Mother Jones aligns on the far left side of the political spectrum. Their stated mission of Mother Jones "...is to produce revelatory journalism that in its power and reach informs and inspires a more just and democratic world."

Michael Moore worked there for a while as the Editor before he got fired over an internal dispute.

TexaninVA
07-23-2014, 12:36 PM
The Mother Jones stated mission is your evidence that it is far left? What part?

No, I'm not saying that the mission statement per se is what definitively categorizes MJ as far left. I've read the magazine intermittently over the years and reached that conclusion way before Gracie asked the question.

However, the mission statement does provide insight if you read between the lines ... to wit, MJ talks about "..inspiring a more just and democratic world." That certainly sounds laudatory, wouldn't you agree? But they are code words within the context of what they publish in general. (both sides of the spectrum use code words btw ... different words in different context etc)

In practice, MJ is very sympathetic towards, and supports advancement of the worldwide "socialist" cause. I believe anyone who actually reads MJ will recognize what I said is objectively true. That's also not to say that the article and photo about earlier generations of child immigrants, and from where Gracie's question came, was out of place. The article was pertinent. However, I'm also saying, MJ is for all intents and purposes a far left publication.

Anyway, let's get back to the topic of give me your tired etc.

I say, build a wall, deport the illegals, welcome all LEGAL immigrants and in the meantime, put diplomatic and, if needed, military pressure on the government of Mexico. They are allowing these people passage thru their territory. It is an act of quasi-war IMHO.

Also, ironically enough, had the US Army remained in Mexico in 1847-48, we could have prevented this whole mess, annexed all of Mexico and got on with things. Then the US and the Mexicans would have both been better of under the US Constitution, the heritage of English law and a free market economy. (but that's another thread ... which I may do TBD)

Rags123
07-23-2014, 12:57 PM
But I have not heard that any one of them declared to be a victim of human trafficking! The key word 'abuse' is apparently being used by our government rather than those crossing the border!

A read through the law is fascinating and a great revelation as to how we have been DUPED!

Just read this morning in the San Antonio newspaper and adds to our conversation on this law.....

" President Barack Obama can take action to relieve much of the crisis caused by tens of thousands of unaccompanied children crossing the southern U.S. border without waiting for what is likely to be a contentious and lengthy congressional battle, say two key lawmakers, one Democrat and the other, Republican.

" Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, the author of the provision in the human trafficking law, said a change in regulations, not the law, could speed the children's return.

The law already allows the departments of Homeland Security and Health and Human Services to write regulations to deal with �exceptional circumstances� that would allow officials to return the children more quickly to their home countries, Feinstein said."

Obama may hold fix to flood of immigrant kids - San Antonio Express-News (http://www.expressnews.com/news/us-world/border-mexico/article/Obama-may-hold-fix-to-flood-of-immigrant-kids-5619006.php)

Let us hope there is more action.....National Guard is costly and hopefully is only short term.

TheVillageChicken
07-23-2014, 01:20 PM
The people who so feared for the life of their children and sent them off alone--Irish famine, Jews in WWII, Cuban boat lift--are the bravest parents of all. I cannot imagine having to make that decision. The ones who did it hoping it would be a ticket for themselves into the country are beyond abusive.

Hubs and I were saying yesterday we should be thanking God every day for those born in America, Canada, or western Europe. There but for the grace of Giod...

I doubt if all the parents of the current influx of children meet the criteria of bravery. I truly believe some of them are using this situation to improve their own quality of life, and their sending us their children is analogous to having an abortion.

CFrance
07-23-2014, 04:06 PM
I doubt if all the parents of the current influx of children meet the criteria of bravery. I truly believe some of them are using this situation to improve their own quality of life, and their sending us their children is analogous to having an abortion.
How crass.

TheVillageChicken
07-23-2014, 04:21 PM
How crass.

That's the nature of reality.

Rags123
07-23-2014, 04:24 PM
How crass.

Another outlook.....

"New York Times writer Frances Robles wrote in June, "Many (unaccompanied children migrants) say they are going because they believe the United States treats migrant children traveling alone and women with their children more leniently than adult illegal immigrants with no children."


Read more at Why thousands of migrant children are crossing the U.S. border alone | Deseret News National (http://national.deseretnews.com/article/1852/Why-thousands-of-migrant-children-are-crossing-the-US-border-alone.html#60p0X4ZemxvMgtLm.99)

eweissenbach
07-23-2014, 05:21 PM
How crass.

:BigApplause: understated! Thnx. Cyndi!

Rags123
07-23-2014, 05:59 PM
I am trying to stay away from the name calling and actually find out WHY children are showing up alone......gave a few and here is another...

"With the invasion now taking place, it is going to explode. No parents means that any immigrant child under 18 can apply for a Green Card as soon as they are deemed �abandoned� by their parents for 6 months by the court system. There are some other minor rules, but that is the big one�."

From the same source....

"What nobody is talking about (or maybe nobody has realized yet) is that this is going to flood the child welfare courts FIRST, before they get to the USCIS (certain findings of fact which can only be made by the state are prerequisites to SIJS applications) with a sudden influx of �abandoned� children, and put a strain on the CPS system like nothing that has ever been seen.�

Immigration Reform|Special Immigrant Juvenile Status (http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/07/surprise-unaccompanied-children-crossing-border-may-have-right-to-stay/)

I was not aware of most of this and each days reading makes me a bit more concerned and angry at the same time. I wish everyone would try to read about this and what is happening BECAUSE IT WILL AFFECT US IN THE FUTURE !!! I do not know who those border states can handle this.

perrjojo
07-23-2014, 07:23 PM
I was not aware of most of this and each days reading makes me a bit more concerned and angry at the same time. I wish everyone would try to read about this and what is happening BECAUSE IT WILL AFFECT US IN THE FUTURE !!! I do not know who those border states can handle this.

I have lived in a border state and it has been a strain for MANY years. This sitituation will be an impossible burden to bear.

graciegirl
07-23-2014, 07:57 PM
I have lived in a border state and it has been a strain for MANY years. This sitituation will be an impossible burden to bear.


The people who know best and firsthand what the problem is are those that now live on the border. They are the states always thought of as religious and traditional and so they are frequently dismissed by the people who don't hold to that stuff. Sad to me.

zcaveman
07-23-2014, 08:50 PM
...

jlongman
07-25-2014, 09:02 PM
That statue was given to us by France. Their inscription not necessarily ours.

rp001
07-25-2014, 09:12 PM
That statue was given to us by France. Their inscription not necessarily ours.

DEFINE OURS. ....don't believe for a minute thes sentiments shown on this thread even begin to represent the masses. This is a minority opinion!

graciegirl
07-25-2014, 09:30 PM
Public shifts toward prioritizing deportation, poll shows - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/07/24/public-shifts-toward-prioritizing-deportation-poll-shows/)

Rags123
07-26-2014, 07:22 AM
Public shifts toward prioritizing deportation, poll shows - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/07/24/public-shifts-toward-prioritizing-deportation-poll-shows/)


YET...on the other hand.......

"The President may be preparing to provide temporary legal status to millions of undocumented immigrants

When President Obama issues executive orders on immigration in coming weeks, pro-reform activists are expecting something dramatic: temporary relief from deportation and work authorization for perhaps several million undocumented immigrants."

Immigration Reform: Obama May Provide Legal Status to Millions - TIME (http://time.com/3028637/obama-eyes-major-immigration-move/)

"In a fiery speech at the Los Angeles Convention Center on Saturday, U.S. Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.) said he was confident after meeting with President Obama last week that the president will move forward in the coming months with an executive order that would grant legal status to millions of immigrants in the country illegally, possibly including the parents of American-born children."

Congressman optimistic Obama will grant immigrants legal status - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-0720-la-raza-convention-20140720-story.html)


So....only time will tell !!!! All conjecture at this point.

buggyone
07-26-2014, 07:41 AM
President Obama has the legal authority to write Executive Orders and if Congress cannot agree on viable compromises, the Executive Order is a good way to make sure action is taken.

All Presidents have used Executive Orders.

Chi-Town
07-26-2014, 07:43 AM
No, I'm not saying that the mission statement per se is what definitively categorizes MJ as far left. I've read the magazine intermittently over the years and reached that conclusion way before Gracie asked the question.

However, the mission statement does provide insight if you read between the lines ... to wit, MJ talks about "..inspiring a more just and democratic world." That certainly sounds laudatory, wouldn't you agree? But they are code words within the context of what they publish in general. (both sides of the spectrum use code words btw ... different words in different context etc)

In practice, MJ is very sympathetic towards, and supports advancement of the worldwide "socialist" cause. I believe anyone who actually reads MJ will recognize what I said is objectively true. That's also not to say that the article and photo about earlier generations of child immigrants, and from where Gracie's question came, was out of place. The article was pertinent. However, I'm also saying, MJ is for all intents and purposes a far left publication.

Anyway, let's get back to the topic of give me your tired etc.

I say, build a wall, deport the illegals, welcome all LEGAL immigrants and in the meantime, put diplomatic and, if needed, military pressure on the government of Mexico. They are allowing these people passage thru their territory. It is an act of quasi-war IMHO.

Also, ironically enough, had the US Army remained in Mexico in 1847-48, we could have prevented this whole mess, annexed all of Mexico and got on with things. Then the US and the Mexicans would have both been better of under the US Constitution, the heritage of English law and a free market economy. (but that's another thread ... which I may do TBD)

Thanks for the info. I really didn't know about Mother Jones until they released the Romney 47% video. Still don't follow it. As far as the US Army remaining in Mexico in 1847-48, that would mean that there would be no Cinco de Mayo celebration. Removing that from my holiday calendar would be painful.

Rags123
07-26-2014, 07:44 AM
President Obama has the legal authority to write Executive Orders and if Congress cannot agree on viable compromises, the Executive Order is a good way to make sure action is taken.

All Presidents have used Executive Orders.

This thread is not about Executive Orders but immigration reform or lack there of !!! That term was simply used by the sources to describe the action.

Not sure with whom you are discussing this subject !!???

You are getting into politics and that is not allowed on here.

graciegirl
07-26-2014, 07:48 AM
President Obama has the legal authority to write Executive Orders and if Congress cannot agree on viable compromises, the Executive Order is a good way to make sure action is taken.

All Presidents have used Executive Orders.

But Buggy, It seems clear that even the Washington Post is saying that more than half polled favor deportation. It isn't wise to go against public opinion in a Democracy. I think the Washington Post is usually considered to be a paper leaning left?

buggyone
07-26-2014, 08:31 AM
This thread is not about Executive Orders but immigration reform or lack there of !!! That term was simply used by the sources to describe the action.

Not sure with whom you are discussing this subject !!???

You are getting into politics and that is not allowed on here.

My post was about immigration reform and a method of accomplishing it. The only thing political was explaining that Executive Orders can legally be used. You might say is is an education lesson but not political by any means.

The discussion is for the forum and not directed at any poster.

buggyone
07-26-2014, 08:41 AM
But Buggy, It seems clear that even the Washington Post is saying that more than half polled favor deportation. It isn't wise to go against public opinion in a Democracy. I think the Washington Post is usually considered to be a paper leaning left?

I remember other Presidents who have gone against public opinion such as LBJ and GWBush. I am not agreeing nor disagreeing on deportation but just mentioned that Executive Orders are a legal method of achieving immigration policy.

njbchbum
07-26-2014, 09:10 AM
I remember other Presidents who have gone against public opinion such as LBJ and GWBush. I am not agreeing nor disagreeing on deportation but just mentioned that Executive Orders are a legal method of achieving immigration policy.

As long as E.O. remains Executive Order and not Executive Overreach, eh?

Chi-Town
07-26-2014, 11:14 AM
An act of Congress sounds better than executive orders. Hmmm, maybe we should revisit the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986.

Villages PL
07-26-2014, 02:37 PM
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Has Lady Liberty's inscription been revoked ?

Who wrote the inscription? I would take out two parts:

1) give me your tired: Why would we want tired people? We want energetic people who are ready to roll up their sleeves and go to work. Tired people will go on welfare.

2) the wretched refuse: This sounds like nothing but trouble. They could be criminals, the lame and those with diseases. More welfare recipients.

Instead, they should add this to the inscription: Give me your law-abiding legal immigrants who are ready to work rather than collect welfare.

Rags123
07-26-2014, 04:21 PM
Who wrote the inscription? I would take out two parts:

1) give me your tired: Why would we want tired people? We want energetic people who are ready to roll up their sleeves and go to work. Tired people will go on welfare.

2) the wretched refuse: This sounds like nothing but trouble. They could be criminals, the lame and those with diseases. More welfare recipients.

Instead, they should add this to the inscription: Give me your law-abiding legal immigrants who are ready to work rather than collect welfare.

This post is way way out of line and folks have to read a bit of history. This country has a rich history of immigration, but in my opinion, it has to be done the correct way.

If this was meant to be funny, I didnt laugh but apologize for interrupting the fun.

Rags123
07-26-2014, 04:42 PM
Why is this subject continuing as an argument between those who are right and those who are left?


Well, here is a bit of reading for you.....

This, to me is a beginning albeit a bit late...

" President Barack Obama urged the leaders of three Central American countries on Friday to work with him to stem the flow of child migrants who have surged across the U.S. border and warned that most of them would not be allowed to stay."

However, it is not that simple....

"Obama's drive to tackle the migrant crisis with $3.7 billion in emergency government funds is in trouble because the deeply divided Congress leaves on a month-long recess late next week and is increasingly unlikely to approve the money.

Republicans want Democrats to agree to a change in a 2008 anti-trafficking law to speed deportations before agreeing to a pared-down version of Obama's request. Democrats do not want to speed deportations of children with links to Hispanic-Americans, who are an important Democratic voting bloc."

Obama tells Central American leaders most children will go home | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/25/us-usa-immigration-obama-idUSKBN0FU1ST20140725)

It appears from reading tea leaves.......this all stalls and the President grants amnesty to millions by executive order. This gets him his votes and that appears to be the driving force.

If you read earlier in this thread....that 2008 law needing to be fixed was paramount to everybody....even Democrats. THEN

"House Republicans Friday were mulling a border supplemental spending bill that would give President Obama only a fraction of his $3.7 billion request, but a looming fight over a 2008 deportation law now threatens to derail any deal at all.

Democrats were already likely to balk at the small size of the $900 million spending package Republicans are currently mulling. But Democrats have complicated the deal by walking back their initial support for provision in the bill that would make it easier to speed deportations of children back to their homes in Central America."


Democratic reversal on 2008 law playing role in border bill breakdown | WashingtonExaminer.com (http://washingtonexaminer.com/democratic-reversal-on-2008-law-playing-role-in-border-bill-breakdown/article/2551308)

I said earlier in this thread and will repeat it as if anyone cared what I think.....but playing for votes in this particular issue is disgusting to me. Are these people, and I speak of both sides of the aisle just in this for the votes ? What ever happened to statesmen ?

perrjojo
07-26-2014, 07:50 PM
Well, here is a bit of reading for you.....

This, to me is a beginning albeit a bit late...

" President Barack Obama urged the leaders of three Central American countries on Friday to work with him to stem the flow of child migrants who have surged across the U.S. border and warned that most of them would not be allowed to stay."

However, it is not that simple....

"Obama's drive to tackle the migrant crisis with $3.7 billion in emergency government funds is in trouble because the deeply divided Congress leaves on a month-long recess late next week and is increasingly unlikely to approve the money.

Republicans want Democrats to agree to a change in a 2008 anti-trafficking law to speed deportations before agreeing to a pared-down version of Obama's request. Democrats do not want to speed deportations of children with links to Hispanic-Americans, who are an important Democratic voting bloc."

Obama tells Central American leaders most children will go home | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/25/us-usa-immigration-obama-idUSKBN0FU1ST20140725)

It appears from reading tea leaves.......this all stalls and the President grants amnesty to millions by executive order. This gets him his votes and that appears to be the driving force.

If you read earlier in this thread....that 2008 law needing to be fixed was paramount to everybody....even Democrats. THEN

"House Republicans Friday were mulling a border supplemental spending bill that would give President Obama only a fraction of his $3.7 billion request, but a looming fight over a 2008 deportation law now threatens to derail any deal at all.

Democrats were already likely to balk at the small size of the $900 million spending package Republicans are currently mulling. But Democrats have complicated the deal by walking back their initial support for provision in the bill that would make it easier to speed deportations of children back to their homes in Central America."


Democratic reversal on 2008 law playing role in border bill breakdown | WashingtonExaminer.com (http://washingtonexaminer.com/democratic-reversal-on-2008-law-playing-role-in-border-bill-breakdown/article/2551308)

I said earlier in this thread and will repeat it as if anyone cared what I think.....but playing for votes in this particular issue is disgusting to me. Are these people, and I speak of both sides of the aisle just in this for the votes ? What ever happened to statesmen ?
And all of this jockeying going on while border states are bring overwhelmed. Those states are suffering while the other states argue over what to do. All the while these children that so many claim to concerned about are pawns in this pathetic gamesmanship. This situation benefits no one,.