The Villages Turns Down Jersey Mike's

[John_W]

Yesterday while at Jersey Mike's in front of Target getting my sub fix, while in line the manager asked me, where you headed next. I said to the MVP gym, he said over here next to Gator's Dockside. I said no, they opened another MVP at Brownwood, and there is also a new Gator's Dockside at Brownwood.

He said we talked to The Villages about putting a store at Brownwood, and they said how much space do you need, I told them 1200 sf, we don't need a lot. They said for the time being, they aren't renting out anything under 2000 sf. Then they asked about Pinellas Plaza, and they were told that Subway is already there and has a non-compete clause.

Sounds like TV has some funny business practices turning down a successful franchise that would bring a lot of foot traffic. I hope they can get into the new Publix shopping center before Subway.

Also, I noticed that 'Outback' had a sign 'now open everyday at 11am', so you don't have to wait until the weekend to get lunch there.

[CFrance]

Yesterday while at Jersey Mike's in front of Target getting my sub fix, while in line the manager asked me, where you headed next. I said to the MVP gym, he said over here next to Gator's Dockside. I said no, they opened another MVP at Brownwood, and there is also a new Gator's Dockside at Brownwood.

He said we talked to The Villages about putting a store at Brownwood, and they said how much space do you need, I told them 1200 sf, we don't need a lot. They said for the time being, they aren't renting out anything under 2000 sf. Then they asked about Pinellas Plaza, and they were told that Subway is already there and has a non-compete clause.

Sounds like TV has some funny business practices turning down a successful franchise that would bring a lot of foot traffic. I hope they can get into the new Publix shopping center before Subway.

Also, I noticed that 'Outback' had a sign 'now open everyday at 11am', so you don't have to wait until the weekend to get lunch there.
That's too bad, since there are so many empty storefronts at Brownwood. Also, Carrabba's opened for lunch sometime last year. In MI it was only open for lunch on Sunday. And Outback never was. I used to like their coconut shrimp.

[raynan]

That's too bad because we love Jersey Mikes.
Nancy

[l2ridehd]

I would suggest that Subway is really not competition for Jersey Mike's. I like Mike's but probably will never go in Subway.

[NottaVillager]

A non-compete contract is not at all unusual in this kind of situation. As far as space in Brownwood I'm not really surprised by that. They are looking to get absolute top dollar for the commercial space. The GM of WVLG told me that originally they intended for the radio station to have a studio in Brownwood just as they do at SS & LSL, but because the rental space was so valuable the Morse organization changed their mind and was not going to put one in because of the value of the space.

[KathieI]

Non-compete clauses are very common amongst the large chains. There was a small, privately owned coffee kiosk in a parking lot next to LAX and along comes a new Starbucks in the building next door and literally put them out of business. They had been there for probably 20 years or more but in order to stay in business, they changed over to yogurt and eventually went belly up. When I asked the owner why she changed over to frozen yogurt, she said it was a non-compete from Starbucks that even though she was the original store there, it didn't matter, the landlord gave in.

[CFrance]

Non-compete clauses are very common amongst the large chains. There was a small, privately owned coffee kiosk in a parking lot next to LAX and along comes a new Starbucks in the building next door and literally put them out of business. They had been there for probably 20 years or more but in order to stay in business, they changed over to yogurt and eventually went belly up. When I asked the owner why she changed over to frozen yogurt, she said it was a non-compete from Starbucks that even though she was the original store there, it didn't matter, the landlord gave in.
This is an example of a business becoming too big for its britches, throwing its weight around and bashing the little guys all around them. What earthly difference would it make to them if some little mom & pop outfit sells coffee? They can't possibly do damage to Starbucks. They used to be a small mom & pop themselves, and now they are big and arrogant and only look at the bottom line and go out of their way to run every little local coffee shop out of town. I hate this. I won't buy from them. They have demonstrated poor ethics.

And don't tell me these corporations have to do this so their stockholders will make money. Hogwash. Plenty of businesses are more ethically run and still make a profit.

Remember, it was the greedy robber barons who gave rise to unions.

[Steve & Deanna]

Non-compete clause, that's what cable tv companies have.....if you know what I mean.

[graciegirl]

This is an example of a business becoming too big for its britches, throwing its weight around and bashing the little guys all around them. What earthly difference would it make to them if some little mom & pop outfit sells coffee? They can't possibly do damage to Starbucks. They used to be a small mom & pop themselves, and now they are big and arrogant and only look at the bottom line and go out of their way to run every little local coffee shop out of town. I hate this. I won't buy from them. They have demonstrated poor ethics.

And don't tell me these corporations have to do this so their stockholders will make money. Hogwash. Plenty of businesses are more ethically run and still make a profit.

Remember, it was the greedy robber barons who gave rise to unions.


That is just how it works kiddo. Businesses have to be tough to succeed. It isn't wrong, just competitive. It also saves all of the jobs for the folks who work for that business. It's no baby game. When you are in competition, then you have to be ready to compete. It isn't greed. It is just how business works. If you ran the mall, and you turned down a big name like Starbucks to be nice, you'd be lookin' for work.

[NottaVillager]

Non-competes are pretty standard in retail leasing. It has NOTHING to do with "the big boys throwing their weight around". In many ways it has to do with who gets there first. If Mom & Pops sub shop was the first one there, they could have it too. You also pay a lease premium for that kind of protection. It also helps the person leasing the property. If you have a strip property and somebody opens up a sub shop, then somebody else opens up another sub shop and then somebody else opens yet another one..no matter how you dice it..there will only be so much customer traffic and instead on one successful sub shop who's succeeding and paying his rent, you wind up with 3 shops who are barely making it..or NOT making it, and the strip owner's the loser when they bail out.

They are also very common when a business sells out to a new owner. If for example you own an Italian restaurant and you decide to sell it, there will almost always be a non-compete agreement, so you can't sell your business to a new owner, and then open up a brand new Italian restaurant just a block down the street from the guy you sold it to and compete against him.

There's nothing sinister about it. It has nothing to do with "robber barons". It has nothing to do with the "big boys" throwing their weight around. It has EVERYTHING to do with smart business practices.

[NottaVillager]

Non-compete clause, that's what cable tv companies have.....if you know what I mean.
No. I don't know what you mean. Cable companies have non-competes because they are considered by law to be the same as any other UTILITY like the water company & the electric company. Most people don't know that they can attend the government meetings where the municipal franchise agreements are awarded and can speak at those meetings pro or con. You have to be involved and KNOW which municipality awards the cable franchise whether it be town, city or county government. Any municipality can revoke the cable company's franchise if the citizens make their case for revocation, or for not awarding the franchise in the first place.

[NYGUY]

I totally agree with all the business reason, but I would still like to see a Jersey Mike's south of 466A!!

[CFrance]

That is just how it works kiddo. Businesses have to be tough to succeed. It isn't wrong, just competitive. It also saves all of the jobs for the folks who work for that business. It's no baby game. When you are in competition, then you have to be ready to compete. It isn't greed. It is just how business works. If you ran the mall, and you turned down a big name like Starbucks to be nice, you'd be lookin' for work.
They have to be tough, but they don't have to squash everyone around them in the interest of more and more profit. No reason not to let the little guy be in KathieI's example. They couldn't possibly eat into Starbuck's profits enough to harm them.

There ARE ethical companies who don't pound their competitors into the ground. My husband worked for one.

[Bonny]

Yesterday while at Jersey Mike's in front of Target getting my sub fix, while in line the manager asked me, where you headed next. I said to the MVP gym, he said over here next to Gator's Dockside. I said no, they opened another MVP at Brownwood, and there is also a new Gator's Dockside at Brownwood.

He said we talked to The Villages about putting a store at Brownwood, and they said how much space do you need, I told them 1200 sf, we don't need a lot. They said for the time being, they aren't renting out anything under 2000 sf. Then they asked about Pinellas Plaza, and they were told that Subway is already there and has a non-compete clause.

Sounds like TV has some funny business practices turning down a successful franchise that would bring a lot of foot traffic. I hope they can get into the new Publix shopping center before Subway.

Also, I noticed that 'Outback' had a sign 'now open everyday at 11am', so you don't have to wait until the weekend to get lunch there.
I talked to Joanie who owns Square 1 Burgers. She wanted to be on the square at Brownwood but was told she can't because there was already a burger place there. (Which would be 5 Guys). If one of us had a burger place, we would not want another burger place next door to compete with. It's just the way it is.

[Waverunner]

The part of this story that I like is that John W was getting a sub BEFORE heading off to MVP!

[Baboon]

The part of this story that I like is that John W was getting a sub BEFORE heading off to MVP!

Heh, I was thinking the same :)

Btw - Jersey Mikes has fine subs :)

[Cedwards38]

This response is also business language for, "Hey Jersey Mike, you want a piece of this bonanza then step up and rent the 2000 square feet."

[NottaVillager]

I'm no fan of Subway, they're OK in a pinch, but I fail to "get" the attraction to Jersey Mikes. Tried them out after they opened. I left with the impression that if you like a lot of bread and lettuce and very little meat at a high price they're great. Never went back. I can make a better more filling sub at home with Boar's Head deli meats from Publix.

[Bonny]

I'm not crazy about Jersey Mike's subs. I thought they were very skimpy on the meat and cheese. Rather have Publix or Winn Dixie. I must say, for the price, I do like Subway.

[TomOB]

We all have different opinions. I think Jersey Mike's is the best. I ate my first sub at Mike's in Pt. Pleasant, NJ in 1956 at the original store which is now the training center. As for the Villages rules and rents, why do you think we don't have any really good restaurants here in TV?

[wmkhut]

Would love to see Firehouse Subs in or near Brownwood........like by the new Publix possibly. Don't need a Subway down there with one in Pinellas Plaza.

[jbdlfan]

Personally, I see this as a slap in face of the free enterprise system. Pure protectionism. Why not have two companies with same product? The best product with the best service should be the winner. If you can't compete, get better.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

A non-compete contract is not at all unusual in this kind of situation. As far as space in Brownwood I'm not really surprised by that. They are looking to get absolute top dollar for the commercial space. The GM of WVLG told me that originally they intended for the radio station to have a studio in Brownwood just as they do at SS & LSL, but because the rental space was so valuable the Morse organization changed their mind and was not going to put one in because of the value of the space.

I agree. I don't think that either of these stipulations are uncommon business practices.

Owners often require that you rent a minimum space in premium areas and non-compete clauses are everywhere.

[skip0358]

I don't see it as they were turned down. Brownwood was leasing larger then they needed and Pinellas Plaza already had a Subway signed up. The Publix on 44 would be the next choice. Maybe in time when Brownwood is more built out a smaller store front will become available. JMO

[OpusX1]

I think the thread title should be Jersey Mikes rejects The Villages lease opportunity.

[TheVillageChicken]

Sounds like an opportunity for Panera. Brownwood, that is.

[Russ_Boston]

I think the thread title should be Jersey Mikes rejects The Villages lease opportunity.

Exactly! I was looking for the right words and you nailed it.

It's weird how people post things that make it seem like some sort of conspiracy. It's business 101.

[applesoffh]

And now you know why we're loaded with mediocre chain restaurants in TV - sometimes 3 or more of the same old same old, rather than an independent and/or innovative restaurant, cafe or diner-type of establishment. Thank heavens more and more places are opening around us, and many Villagers aren't afraid to leave "the compound" (oh, how I loathe that phrase, along with "the campus").

[Russ_Boston]

And now you know why we're loaded with mediocre chain restaurants in TV - sometimes 3 or more of the same old same old, rather than an independent and/or innovative restaurant, cafe or diner-type of establishment. Thank heavens more and more places are opening around us, and many Villagers aren't afraid to leave "the compound" (oh, how I loathe that phrase, along with "the campus").

I don't know the exact number but it's something like 90% of all restaurant start-ups fail within the first 2 years.

The old joke: "How do you make a million dollars with a restaurant? Start with 2 million!"

Mediocre restaurants are the norm everywhere because they know how to control their supply chain and they can pool the advertising dollar. It's the way of the world (at least in the USA) not just in TV.

[TomOB]

I just looked at Jersey Mikes franchise page and there is no franchise available for this area. I guess the point is moot and rumors expanded on TOTV again.

[graciegirl]

I just looked at Jersey Mikes franchise page and there is no franchise available for this area. I guess the point is moot and rumors expanded on TOTV again.


I want to HUG you.

[CFrance]

I just looked at Jersey Mikes franchise page and there is no franchise available for this area. I guess the point is moot and rumors expanded on TOTV again.

That may be because they already nixed the Brownwood due to the square footage requirement. Why would the people at the present Jersey Mike's have even asked about Brownwood if there were no franchises available? Perhaps they were going to move their location to Brownwood?

[graciegirl]

Yesterday while at Jersey Mike's in front of Target getting my sub fix, while in line the manager asked me, where you headed next. I said to the MVP gym, he said over here next to Gator's Dockside. I said no, they opened another MVP at Brownwood, and there is also a new Gator's Dockside at Brownwood.

He said we talked to The Villages about putting a store at Brownwood, and they said how much space do you need, I told them 1200 sf, we don't need a lot. They said for the time being, they aren't renting out anything under 2000 sf. Then they asked about Pinellas Plaza, and they were told that Subway is already there and has a non-compete clause.

Sounds like TV has some funny business practices turning down a successful franchise that would bring a lot of foot traffic. I hope they can get into the new Publix shopping center before Subway.

Also, I noticed that 'Outback' had a sign 'now open everyday at 11am', so you don't have to wait until the weekend to get lunch there.


I again say, it doesn't sound like "funny business" just business. A non compete clause is GOOD business. There are many geographic Franchise restrictions too. Large successful companies will not sell their product to everyone who wants their product. That is how it's done. The Villages commercial probably rents to people who have a good history of paying their bills and have shown that they can survive in this business climate. We want everything, but we are on a "fixed income". Yup. We seniors are somewhat challenging.

No conspiracy theory here. Just plain old business and economics one oh one.

[NottaVillager]

I don't know the exact number but it's something like 90% of all restaurant start-ups fail within the first 2 years.

The old joke: "How do you make a million dollars with a restaurant? Start with 2 million!"


That old joke also applies to being a farmer.

[John_W]

I just looked at Jersey Mikes franchise page and there is no franchise available for this area. I guess the point is moot and rumors expanded on TOTV again.

I talked to the manager, and he definitely said they've talked to TV about Brownwood, why would he lie about that or I lie about that? It's my best guess that the area of TV is not available because the current franchise already owns the area. They're not as big as Subway or McDonalds with thousands of locations and franchise can be as little as two miles apart. Part of the current franchise deal was probably not to allow other Jersey Mike's into competition in TV's.

I have no problem with TV turning down Jersey Mike's at Pinellas Plaza because of Subway, my problem is turning down Jersey Mike's at Brownwood because they only wanted 1200sf. There are a lot of vacant storefronts, maybe a couple of years from now they will change their tune. Remember, Lake Sumter opened in 2007 but Panera's didn't movie in until 2011. Brownwood may take a few years to fill all those vacant spots.

The Villages commercial probably rents to people who have a good history of paying their bills and have shown that they can survive in this business climate.

Maybe you should go over to Jersey Mike's and see for yourself. There is a line in that place anytime of the day. They make Subway look small. I've eaten at Jersey Mike's all over the state, my neighbor said he even ate at one in Las Vegas. They are an up and coming franchise and every location I've been in is always crowded. Maybe TV rental dept did as much research as you did.

[graciegirl]

I talked to the manager, and he definitely said they've talked to TV about Brownwood, why would he lie about that or I lie about that? It's my best guess that the area of TV is not available because the current franchise already owns the area. They're not as big as Subway or McDonalds with thousands of locations and franchise can be as little as two miles apart. Part of the current franchise deal was probably not to allow other Jersey Mike's into competition in TV's.

I have no problem with TV turning down Jersey Mike's at Pinellas Plaza because of Subway, my problem is turning down Jersey Mike's at Brownwood because they only wanted 1200sf. There are a lot of vacant storefronts, maybe a couple of years from now they will change their tune. Remember, Lake Sumter opened in 2007 but Panera's didn't movie in until 2011. Brownwood may take a few years to fill all those vacant spots.



Maybe you should go over to Jersey Mike's and see for yourself. There is a line in that place anytime of the day. They make Subway look small. I've eaten at Jersey Mike's all over the state, my neighbor said he even ate at one in Las Vegas. They are an up and coming franchise and every location I've been in is always crowded. Maybe TV rental dept did as much research as you did.


I am going to. You posted on here before about it and it sounds yummy. and I keep forgetting to try it. What is your favorite again?

[TomOB]

Why would Jersey Mike's franchise page lie? Jersey Mike's Subs - 5 - Where can you open a Jersey Mike?s Subs Sandwich Franchise? (http://www.jerseymikes.com/franchise/5-territory.php) Anyone can look it up.

[Russ_Boston]

Remember, Lake Sumter opened in 2007 but Panera's didn't movie in until 2011.

Panara's current spot in LSL was not vacant from 2007 to 2011. It was occupied by a TV owned cafe joint (don't remember the name - sorry).

[OpusX1]

Why would Jersey Mike's franchise page lie? Jersey Mike's Subs - 5 - Where can you open a Jersey Mike?s Subs Sandwich Franchise? (http://www.jerseymikes.com/franchise/5-territory.php) Anyone can look it up.


A franchise is not necessarily a single location, more like a territory, the existing franchisee may elect to have more than one store in their territory. Before I retired my partners and I had a Wendy's franchise, in our case our territory was the entire county, we started out with one store but had four stores after six years. Some franchise's have different territories, it could be a metropolitan area or an entire state, it just depends on the contract between the Corporation offering the franchise and the franchisee. That contract always favors the corporation.

[obxgal]

Panara's current spot in LSL was not vacant from 2007 to 2011. It was occupied by a TV owned cafe joint (don't remember the name - sorry).

It was the Veranda and I sure do miss it.

[Russ_Boston]

It was the Veranda and I sure do miss it.

Thanks - yes that's it and I did go there often when I visited.

[mulligan]

That may be because they already nixed the Brownwood due to the square footage requirement. Why would the people at the present Jersey Mike's have even asked about Brownwood if there were no franchises available? Perhaps they were going to move their location to Brownwood?

How about the current franchise owner is protected in one or more counties.

[CFrance]

How about the current franchise owner is protected in one or more counties.
I don't know. It was the current store whose manager told OP that they talked to the developer about opening a tore in Brownwood. Why would he do that if there were no franchises available? Maybe if you already have a franchise, you've got permission to buy another?:shrug:

[Shimpy]

I'm not crazy about Jersey Mike's subs. I thought they were very skimpy on the meat and cheese. Rather have Publix or Winn Dixie. I must say, for the price, I do like Subway.

When traveling we always stop at subway for lunch. Plenty of them on interstates and a whole lot more healthy than Burger King or McDonalds.

[CFrance]

I like Subway too. We sometimes stop there while traveling with the pets. One of us goes in & the other stays with the pets, walks the dog. My husband went in and ordered my BLT on honey whole wheat. They said what do you want on it? He said No cheese, lite mayo. When I got the sandwich, it had bacon, mayo, and nothing else! I mean, doesn't a BLT automatically come with L & T???:shrug:

Sorry...off topic.

[NottaVillager]

How about the current franchise owner is protected in one or more counties.
That is often the case in many franchise agreements. With the exception of McDonalds many of the larger franchises (BK, Wendys, Arbys, KFC) franchisees are often offered the opportunity to claim large areas of territory. In some cases out in the west they were offered entire states. So it is very possible that the local Jersey Mike's operator has claim to several cities or entire counties. The local 5-Guys operator has All of The Villages locations as well as other locations in Lake County including Mt. Dora.

[3puttpar]

Let me start by saying I'm in Jersey Mike's a few times a week and have developed a pretty good relationship with the owner and the manager, Randy. They're both incredibly friendly and they have an awesome crew. I was there today and I asked the owner about this thread and he said that these comments are partially true. When they inquired about Brownwood, they were told that TV is looking to lease to tenants who were going to use more square footage. Jersey Mike's doesn't need 3000 sqft and TV isn't looking to rent smaller spaces in Brownwood right now, so they went their separate ways. The store owner said that there are no hard feelings and that they'll find another spot at the south end of TV within the next year or two. In the meantime, he's opening a store in Mt. Dora. I'm assuming that they have the rights to build in the area and that's why there are no franchise opportunities on the Jersey Mike's website.

If you haven't been there yet, you should check it out. I always get the Italian or the steak and cheese and haven't had a bad sub yet.

[Villages PL]

If I need to eat out, which isn't that often, I will go to Subway because they have some healthier choices. I've never been to Jersey Mike's but I assume they don't compete on that level. It's not about health, it's about taste, right?

[Bogie Shooter]

Get the facts rather than assume.
Jersey Mike's Subs - Nutritional Information (http://www.jerseymikes.com/menu/nutrition.php)

[TNLAKEPANDA]

That's too bad because we love Jersey Mikes.
Nancy

Ditto Jersey Mikes.... Subway can't compete! Hope Jersey Mikes can get into the new Wildwood Publix Center... or better yet Firehouse Subs and a good NY Style Pizza place.

[Jayhawk]

Get the facts rather than assume.
Jersey Mike's Subs - Nutritional Information (http://www.jerseymikes.com/menu/nutrition.php)

Some folks prefer to never let the facts interfere with a good pot-stirring assumption. :doh:

[Shimpy]

I'm not crazy about Jersey Mike's subs. I thought they were very skimpy on the meat and cheese. Rather have Publix or Winn Dixie. I must say, for the price, I do like Subway.

I agree Bonny. When we travel, and I like road trips, we always have lunch in Subway for the following reasons. They are almost at every exit on the interstates and you can eat healther than Mc Donalds, or Burger King. I always have a veggie sub on whole wheat.

[cattywampus]

Personally, I see this as a slap in face of the free enterprise system. Pure protectionism. Why not have two companies with same product?
The BEST PRODUCT with the best service SHOULD BE THE WINNER.
IF YOU CAN'T COMPETE, GET BETTER.



Then you must believe it should also be allowed for the schools.

Therefore, according to you, each School age Child should get a Voucher for $ amount spent
per pupil in a School District or County.
Then let the parent(s) choose a Public or Private or Charter School, using the Voucher.
The $ money spent on Pre-K - 12 education is Property TAX Dollars and should be used as the parent(s)
of the student deems most appropriate.


HOWEVER, Personally, I believe when Developers use their own Private $ to create a commercial district,
they have every right to set the rules.

[lovsthosebigdogs]

For this Jersey Girl, I still think Jersey Mike's makes the best sub. I remember them back in NJ at the shore when they had one store. I am not a fan of Subway. If I wanted to figure out how to make a sandwich I'd make it myself at home. Actually, I don't really care for the bread at Subway more than I don't care for the ingredients they put on it. I will eat there if nothing else works, but I was VERY happy to find a Jersey MIke's in TV.

[ribil]

I would suggest that Subway is really not competition for Jersey Mike's. I like Mike's but probably will never go in Subway.

Ditto! Subway doesn't even come close to Jersey Mikes.

[NYGUY]

Then you must believe it should also be allowed for the schools.

Therefore, according to you, each School age Child should get a Voucher for $ amount spent
per pupil in a School District or County.
Then let the parent(s) choose a Public or Private or Charter School, using the Voucher.
The $ money spent on Pre-K - 12 education is Property TAX Dollars and should be used as the parent(s)
of the student deems most appropriate.


HOWEVER, Personally, I believe when Developers use their own Private $ to create a commercial district,
they have every right to set the rules.

:loco:I must be in Oz!!!

[EnglishJW]

For this Jersey Girl, I still think Jersey Mike's makes the best sub. I remember them back in NJ at the shore when they had one store. I am not a fan of Subway. If I wanted to figure out how to make a sandwich I'd make it myself at home. Actually, I don't really care for the bread at Subway more than I don't care for the ingredients they put on it. I will eat there if nothing else works, but I was VERY happy to find a Jersey MIke's in TV.

Agree completely - especially regarding the "bread" at Subway.

[gigndee]

Jersey Mikes is the closest thing to a great hoagie in this area. I hope that they get into The Villages.

[RErmer]

Jersey Mikes is the closest thing to a great hoagie in this area. I hope that they get into The Villages.

They are in The Villages, posts are about a potential second location. My husband is in love with Jersey Mike's hoagies - nothing presliced, preweighed or prepackaged like some other sub shops.

[tainsley]

Subway, Jersey Mikes good sandwiches. We like the hoagies at Publix.